Can a Modern External Drive Boot in OS 9.2.2?

[nanopico]

IDE harddrives from these days are producing 60% of the noise of this computer. IDE disks which are 8-10 years old will produce zero noise and are twice as fast. (and they are even more reliable than most cheap new sata disks.)

I couldn't agree more.  I bought four 250GB drives and all four of them at the same time in one system make less noise than the single disk that came in it. (I'm not even sure how I got five disks + a DVDRW and ZIP drive in one machine, but somehow I did it.)

[GaryN]

There's a "blessing app" contained within 9? News to me.
What is it? Where is it? Thanks.

No it's not contained. I attached it for you a couple of posts ago.
Scroll up and you'll see it. Run it from 9.2.2 on your internal drive.

I'm seeing your problem. This started out as: " Can I get my new 1T FW drive to work in OS9?"
    Answer: YES… more or less - you just have to partition it intp smaller chunks OS9 can handle.

Now however, it seems to be: "Can I install OS9 on my new 1T FW drive and boot from it?"
       Answer: YES…you should… You can normally boot OS9 over Firewire.
It appears you still have a bless (or rather, a lack of bless) problem.

>>>>  I seriously suggest you try with a fresh copy of 9.2.2 from here on the Forum.  <<<<

One thing that can and does happen when you start dragging OS9 files around in OSX and such is, the file permissions get screwed up and things get locked - usually it's the whole file, and you find you can't write to it or copy it or such, but it's probably possible for parts of files to get locked up as well, and have weird stuff happen…like a system that won't bless. The way to ensure that is not happening is to start with a fresh setup.

[TheDailyBuzzherd]

"Scroll up and you'll see it. Run it from 9.2.2 on your internal drive."

OK, I'll try that.

Poster up above, thanks for the SATA warning. Interesting it can boot
in USB. In 9 itself, in Drive Setup, it doesn't support these newer FW
externals. So ... I think I'm basically trying to break through the newer
security enhancements in the chipset, to accommodate the enhancements
of the new Mac operating systems.

Thanks for tailing this ... it's frustrating, illuminating, but I can see it's doable.

[TheDailyBuzzherd]

as it's now 15 years old

throw it away as soon as you can!

IDE harddrives from these days are producing 60% of the noise of this computer. IDE disks which are 8-10 years old will produce zero noise and are twice as fast. (and they are even more reliable than most cheap new sata disks.)

Naaah ... it's still good! God rewards those who do not waste.

Seriously, noise is not an issue, never was. From time to time
I put in a warped CD – THAT makes noise. I can't understand
this noise issue when air conditioners and other things are far
worse. My system is very acceptable that way. My disk sleeps.

Now, SATA cards ... again, thanks for that. I didn't intend to
add to my expense account anyway. I didn't even want to get
the 2nd backup! But, I realize I always was playing with fire.

[TheDailyBuzzherd]

>>>>  I seriously suggest you try with a fresh copy of 9.2.2 from here on the Forum.  <<<<

How would that be better than installing off the original
9.2.2 disks that came with the Mac? I know of the "Universal"
version, and yes, I tried via "Software Restore", that didn't go
far. It didn't like the disk or wouldn't boot from it. I've read
one needs X on there for it to work ...

[TheDailyBuzzherd]

OK, another idiot question, if you don't mind.

A clarification: So, with a drive as large as the 1T,
I know I need ONE partition at least of 128g or less.
BUT ... do I need to go as far as breaking the drive
into small pieces of no more than 190g each in order
for this sucker to boot at all or am I over-thinking this?

[GaryN]

How would that be better than installing off the original 9.2.2 disks that came with the Mac?

I'm just trying to ascertain that you are using known good, undamaged unadulterated System files.
You've never said before now that you have the "original" 9.2.2 discs. That's actually a pretty unusual thing to have with a 15-year-old computer unless you're the original owner and it's been in your closet all the while.

>>>>Wow…Just happened to fall across your first post on "members introduction" Evidently you are and it has!

Troubleshooting over the internet has lots of little problems like this. For example, even now when you say you have the original discs, I have no way of knowing if they're actually original Apple CDs or if they're copies, in which case any part of them could be corrupted. You see where I'm going here?

OK, another idiot question, if you don't mind.
A clarification: So, with a drive as large as the 1T, I know I need ONE partition at least of 128g or less.
BUT ... do I need to go as far as breaking the drive into small pieces of no more than 190g each in order for this sucker to boot at all or am I over-thinking this?

Yes, you're over-thinking this.
I'm actually getting more and more confused about exactly what the hell you're trying to do with that drive.
Why do you need to have OS installs on it at all? You have 3 OS's on the internal drive, you have backup CDs if needed and waay back when you said:

Why such a big drive and why boot 9 off it? Trying to get the most out of one solution.
1. Clone original drive. It's not essential to boot from 9, just the ability to use Classic programs.
2. A backup for the 3T drive which needs service. I can't backup now with what I've got.

"Trying to get the most out of one solution"?

[TheDailyBuzzherd]

Gary, I did state I have the disks that came with the Mac.
The "Restore" and original 9 "Install" disks. No worries.
These are looong posts I type and understand it's confusing.
Thanks for all the help.

Well, I've tried just about everything to get the folder blessed
and Terminal rebuffed me.

Bottom Line: OS9 may be able to boot with most cables, disks,
etc, EXCEPT those externals with newer chipsets.

It was an interesting experiment, but Plan B applies.

The 1T will function as a data dump and the 3T should be able
to run Classic ... it's just going to be a lot of work to get this
system reconfigured.

Sure, it would be easier to just chuck everything and get a G5
or similar cheap, but I don't want to start over completely.

As you said originally, the best course is just to get a cheap internal
and clone it that way. I have a little time to do that.

When the QS goes, she goes.

[IIO]

I can't understand
this noise issue when air conditioners and other things are far
worse.

in a dual porcessor MDD maybe - in a 933 those old deskstar disks are much louder than all fans at full power will be. (maybe you have a better one already?)

But, I realize I always was playing with fire.

yes and no - there is nothing what could stop you to use 2 IDE disks to boot into OS9 and add 2 additional SATA disks for data. thats what i do in all my macs.

(the bigger problem in my opinion is that OSX wont install via firewire. keeping something IDE for OS9 is not an issue. someone here uses a DOM flash drive connected at the zip slot to boot his OS from. that would be the third option.)

[IIO]

p.s. no sure if i got you right with the "external" thing. OS9 will boot fine from SATA disks when you connect them via firewire. only most PCI cards wont let you boot.

[TheDailyBuzzherd]

IIO, gar-un-teed I don't have it right! With all these conflicting technologies,
I dunno how you guys keep things straight, I really don't.

Specs on Fantom Quad 1T:

Type: External Hard Drive
Power Supply: 110/220 V (Universal Power Supply)
Host Interface: eSATA / FireWire 800 (2) / FireWire 400 / USB 3.0
Available Capacity: 1TB, 2TB, 3TB, 4TB
OS Support: Apple Mac OS X 10.5 or later;
Microsoft Windows Vista, 7, 8;
Windows Server 2003, 2008

Notice the system requirements in bold. 

Daz muh problem! I bought it knowing this, but I'd looked and couldn't
find anything that said a lower OS was still supported. Time marches on.
It appears to be a chip-empowered security update to accommodate
newer systems.

The install disks are clean, I barely use 'em. I know, CDs have a shelf life,
but I've never had problems on the machine for which they were designed.

This is just all part of the travails we have now face on the endless treadmill
of built-in-obsolescence the tech industry has us all in. The thing that really
bothers me with this, are the cash-strapped folks who now NEED this stuff
but have to choose between it and, say, insurance to make things work.
Not a political thread, but I threw it out there ...

ANYHOO, thanks for the guidance on this.

[TheDailyBuzzherd]

(the bigger problem in my opinion is that OSX wont install via firewire. keeping something IDE for OS9 is not an issue. someone here uses a DOM flash drive connected at the zip slot to boot his OS from. that would be the third option.)

Ooops, missed your other two replies! Dang eyes.

So, I'm installing fine using the CDs via Puma or Tiger's Disk Utility.
The System Folders for 9 and Tiger won't bless, just as the specs
warned. So you're saying it's as simple as DRAGGING the old folder
from the "Death Star"? I didn't think it could be done that way, one
needs another utility, "Carbon Copy Cloner". Wrong?

I've read issues on that ...

Nah, never had noise issues with my Desk Star. Lucky, I suppose.

BTW, yes, I installed both Tiger and Leopard on the 3T using FW400,
and they boot, because that drive DOES support down to Tiger. I've
had intermittent issues with one partition on the 3T, hence my service
call to MicroNet, but I kinda think it's an anomaly.

 

[TheDailyBuzzherd]

Not a work around, but related:

https://www.cnet.com/news/installing-leopard-to-an-external-firewire-drive/

[TheDailyBuzzherd]

OK, an udder one I've not tried:

What about an image of the installer disk on one partition? Has anyone tried this so it boots as if the DVD?