Mac files on a new NAS

[Syntho]

I'm thinking the best option for me is to just bin or sit everything up and put it on a my NAS. It's great to have a central location where literally my entire house/studio has backup support. I'll just have to remember to bin or sit everything before putting it on there, except for files that won't matter like audio files. They immediately get the Quicktime creator type when I download them via FTP. I wonder how that is though. Hmm..

But this leaves me with two questions:

1) I like the simplicity of Drop Stuff for stuffing files, usually the one built into the OS. But if I want to bin something up, which versions of Stuffit do that? I think I'm using 7 Deluxe. Is there something less cumbersome than that?

2) Instead of using Fetch or FTP at all, should I turn on the file sharing stuff to make all of this more efficient? Uploading and downloading files via FTP was pretty buggy at times anyway.

[IIO]

They immediately get the Quicktime creator type when I download them via FTP.

quicktime often grabs files with no creator. you can uncheck most of that in its prefs.

1) I like the simplicity of Drop Stuff for stuffing files, usually the one built into the OS. But if I want to bin something up, which versions of Stuffit do that? I think I'm using 7 Deluxe. Is there something less cumbersome than that?

cant remember where, but there was something like a dropbox like service for OS9 where you drag files onto the app and it stuffs and ftp-sends them. couldnt you use the official dropbox client locally?

[macStuff]

greetings fellow mac enthusiasts!

for a fileserver serving up files to multiple Macs running os7/8/9; i think there is a very simple solution for the technically uninclined who dont want a big headache to accomplish the task:

i know that if you have an intel OR ppc mac running Mac OSX Leopard (10.5.x)
it is unique in comparison to more recent Mac OSX machines, in that it can connect to/from older pre-osx macintosh machines using AFP filesharing!
(just do cmd-k, go, afp://192.168.x.x, boom! it works!)

as far as i recall, it even works both ways! allowing osx to connect to os9 as a client, and allowing os9 to connect to osx as a client (can anyone else confirm this?)

might work in snow leopard aswell, but as we all know, this obviously does not work with 10.10 Lion and above! as the story goes, AFP compatibility was originally broken with the tiger 10.4.3 update but i think they did an about-face and reversed the change that caused the incompatibility either in 10.4.11 or 10.5 or an update to 10.5 (not sure, would have to fact check!)

hope this helps!

perhaps its not as helpful as i thought in this day + age as many people , having to choose, would probably select a different version of OSX to run on their hardware! ie: g4 users would choose to run Tiger as its a bit lighter on the ppc hardware, and intel mac users would choose to run snow leopard! Leopard is left in the lurch...

[IIO]

using a PC as fileserver will eat up a lot of household electricity

[macStuff]

using a PC as fileserver?

"MacServerIP 9.0 Long file name & AFP 3.1 & Tiger MacOSX support; extremely fast file server for Mac clients; speed up file transfer between Macs and Win 2003/XP/2000/NT/Win 2008/Windows 7/Vista x32/x64 by up to 5 times."

http://www.cyansoftware.com/download.htm
http://www.cyansoft.info/macsrvip9.zip

the testimonials seem very positive!
cheers!

[IIO]

for any MacOS9 client your speed will be limited by the 100mbit ethernet connection. the only how to make it faster would be to use firewire. but then the cost for a  bigger switch would be higher than for ethernet.
even if you were right and a computer would be 5 times faster than a NAS it will probably not be worth the energy it uses up.

[macStuff]

greetings!

last night i was able to test the file server software i posted above
i did have to right click + "run as administrator" otherwise it would not install properly.
i was then able to mount the shared folder/volume on system 7 on my macintosh SE machine by entering the
PCs IP address in the chooser! it also works to mount the shared folder/volume on modern intel mac!

ta da! it works!

[devils_advisor]

[youtube]GgdwneSi5Qg


Made a short video, i dont like the struggling part and the worrys.
Just go with what works and forget the rest.[/youtube]

[Syntho]

So maybe I should just try Thursby software on a Mac. Hmm. The page says it's compatible with a NAS running Linux though, and a Synology NAS does just that I think.

[devils_advisor]

Yes, what i said was dont move your files around in other operating systems. If you read how dave stores the fork you may not like it. At first i wasn't really happy about it but i had to use it with avid software for a while. Technically you can connect to pretty much anything but from vista ongoing you have to drop the 128bit encryption. And one more thing i use the usb plug on a airport extreme to share drives. Can't get more compatibility than that

[macStuff]

Yes, what i said was dont move your files around in other operating systems. If you read how dave stores the fork you may not like it. At first i wasn't really happy about it but i had to use it with avid software for a while. Technically you can connect to pretty much anything but from vista ongoing you have to drop the 128bit encryption. And one more thing i use the usb plug on a airport extreme to share drives. Can't get more compatibility than that

using AFP as the connection for file services protects the resource fork + metadata (even when its going to an alien OS!) .. that is why its called Apple Filing Protocol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Filing_Protocol

The Apple Filing Protocol (AFP), formerly AppleTalk Filing Protocol, is a proprietary network protocol, and part of the Apple File Service (AFS), that offers file services for macOS and the classic Mac OS. In macOS, AFP is one of several file services supported, with others including Server Message Block (SMB), Network File System (NFS), File Transfer Protocol (FTP), and WebDAV. AFP currently supports Unicode file names, POSIX and access control list permissions, resource forks, named extended attributes, and advanced file locking. In Mac OS 9 and earlier, AFP was the primary protocol for file services[/b]

the Dave app gets its name from WebDAV i think..
but yes PRIMARY PROTOCOL for FILE SERVICES..

i dare you to compare transfer speed AFP vs SMB vs NFS vs FTP vs WEBDAV
i already did my own tests so i know which one will win!

AFP gives the fastest throughput.. hands down.
as long as both source location + destination support AFP..
using a server with modern PC hardware that ssupports AFP will
give you mindblowingly fast speed so fast that you will forget its
a network drive.. because it mounts to your desktop, gets accessed
via native os9 finder, you will forget its network drive!
with gigabit ethernet interfaces on both machines + proper CAT5e cabling, its faster than firewire.
yes faster than firewire. i use a RAID setup on my fileserver and its consistantly 80MB/s+

[macStuff]

I'm going to get a Synology NAS soon and use SHR2 on it. I believe it runs some type of Linux distro. I learned my lesson long ago when storing Mac files on a Windows FTP that I set up. The resource forks wee destroyed and the files were damaged and unusable.

When I get this new NAS running, considering it's running on Linux, would it be ok to store Mac files on it 'raw' without bin'ing it up? i'm still not certain exactly how all of that works.

https://www.synology.com/en-global/knowledgebase/DSM/help/DSM/AdminCenter/file_winmacnfs_mac
enable AFP and disable the other protocols and you should be rock n roll'in with fast AFP transfers

have u tried this yet? if not you dont know what your missing..
simply enable AFP on the NAS..
and then mount the network drive on mac os 9 natively
u dont need any program at all to access it .. support is built in to the mac os 9 os!
and AFP server shoudl automagically handle everything to the point that u can forget about it
and YES using this method u can drag the files without bin'ing them up.

drag n drop from macos9 machine #1 to NAS.. then drag n drop to macos9 machine #2 from the NAS and all icons + thumbnails + resource forks will be as they should be

if u dont have a nas, another good solution is to use an OSX Leopard server (10.5) enabling AFP and same method, simply mount on os9 desktop and works great!

what else would you expect from a protocol that was custom made for MACOS!

[macStuff]

for any MacOS9 client your speed will be limited by the 100mbit ethernet connection.

?? not if you install a Gigabit Ethernet PCI Card..
ive used one from TrendNet on my sawtooth + yosemite b+W and it works fabulous.

[macStuff]

Worst comes to worst I'll just store backups as bin files.

you would only need to encapsulate your files if you have a situation where you cannot use AFP
or one of the two (source vs destination) does not support AFP.

please read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_fork

Compatibility problems[edit]
The complexity of programming with resource forks has led to compatibility problems when accessing other file systems via file sharing protocols such as AFP, SMB, NFS and FTP, when storing to non-HFS volumes, or when transmitting files to other systems in other ways (such as via email). The AFP protocol natively supports Resource Forks, and so resource forks are typically transmitted to these volumes as-is, and stored by the server transparently to clients. The SMB protocol supports a file metadata system similar to Macintosh forks known as Alternate Data Streams (ADSes hereafter). macOS did not support storing resource forks in ADSes on SMB volumes by default until Mac OS X v10.6. In previous versions of the OS, including upgraded versions of 10.6, this feature can be enabled with a param change or by creating a special file.[3]

NATIVELY. built in support for resource forks + meta data
as-is meaning seamless integration u dont have to stuffit or zip or bin its just seamless integration
u can drag your whole drive if u want over AFP and it will be fine

[Astroman]

So maybe I should just try Thursby software on a Mac. Hmm. The page says it's compatible with a NAS running Linux though, and a Synology NAS does just that I think.

it's running Linux, but a very special version (had a couple of them over several years in pro office use)
Very nice boxes and (tbh) the 'better' MacServer regarding simplicity of administration.
Synology is not just about storage but a lot of rather well considered network applications, too.
I still have one around and will check it with OS9 next time, but also with sharing audio files between Windoze, IOS and OS9.

[Syntho]

I'm using OS8.6 on my 9600. I see an Adobe thing in the Chooser but not Appleshare. My OS9 laptop does show the Appleshare thing though. Is there some other way to mount the NAS s a network disk in OS8.6?

PS: I'm late to the party on knowing this, but I always wondered why DAWs won't work if you have Appletalk turned on. Why is that?

[macStuff]

according to this book:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=r64VJt0a4WsC&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=mac+os+8.6+chooser+appleshare&source=bl&ots=tKmmZi-d4C&sig=UP-x2D2N_EmYwk4S7T5SF-lf0i8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjw_YSwiujXAhVs4YMKHc6bB8sQ6AEITzAG#v=onepage&q=mac%20os%208.6%20chooser%20appleshare&f=false

according to this book it says that mac os 8.6 + earlier cannot use Appleshare over TCP
meanwhile i just logged in to my fileserver on my b+w g3 450mhz running 8.6 so that cant be true..
just another example of mis-information on the net..  obviously the author of the book above meant to report
the facts, and probably did so as he or she understood them to be true, but they are in fact wrong!!
because i just used both 7.5.5 + 8.6 to connect to my AFP Fileshare.. it works, and it works beautifully + FAST!
and natively mounted on the desktop and accessed via the finder as one accesses a local drive.

so if you click on appleshare,  it doesnt show the "server ip address" button??


also i note that when i click appleshare on my 7.5.5 machine it says "7.5.5" in the bottom right hand corner of the chooser..
but on my 8.6 machine it says "7.6.2", im not sure what this number is referring to exactly.. maybe thats the "appletalk" version? either way this number has nothing to do with the appleshare client version apparently.

like i said its really confusing because the names of the technologies are so similar and not really defined or distinguished from one another...i just found this installer on my 8.6 mac b+w g3, i think maybe i installed it?
"appleshare_client_3.7.4.img.bin"

https://www.fenestrated.net/mirrors/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/MultiCountry/Macintosh/Networking-Communications/AppleShare_Client/AppleShare_Client_3.7.4.img.bin
https://www.fenestrated.net/mirrors/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/MultiCountry/Macintosh/Networking-Communications/AppleShare_Client/AppleShare_Client_3.7.4_Info.txt

i cant remember if i had to install something to get that server ip address thing to show up
i know i had to install that on my 7.5.5 system to get it to work..

i just found the following statement on google:
 (AppleShare Client 3.7 or higher is required for AFP- over-IP access)
http://abekas.com/download/Legacy_Products/Accom_Legacy_Products/WSD/WSD-HD/interface_documents/wsd-hd_macserverip.pdf was in this document for macserverip software

heres a good quote from that pdf:

MacServerIP Product Information
MacServerIP is an AppleTalk File Protocol (AFP) server product that supports access using Internet
Protocol (IP), adhering to the specifications developed by Apple Computer for its AppleShare IP products.

MacServerIP allows Macintosh computers to access the WSD/HD and transfer files using IP instead of the
AppleTalk Datagram Delivery Protocol (DDP).

The IP method offers significantly better performance than DDP — making it possible for users to access the WSD/HD from anywhere in the world via the Internet, when using the standard AppleShare Client Software provided in MacOS 8.1 and higher or System 7.6 and higher with AppleShare Client Software installed (AppleShare Client 3.7 or higher is required for AFPover-IP access).

now that was in reference to the macServerIp software, but it does exactly the same thing as any other AFP fileserver... be it nas4free or a real mac os x install (10.5), the client is neccessary to access it, so you can only access it on 7.6 + higher (even tho i got it working on 7.5.5 after reading this page i think: https://www.fenestrated.net/mac/755/ )

[macStuff]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Filing_Protocol
under compatibility

Compatibility[edit]
AFP versions 3.0 and greater rely exclusively on TCP/IP (port 548 or 427) for establishing communication,
supporting AppleTalk only as a service discovery protocol.

The AFP 2.x family supports *both* TCP/IP (using Data Stream Interface) *and*
AppleTalk for communication and service discovery.

Many third-party AFP implementations use AFP 2.x, thereby supporting AppleTalk as a connection method.
Earlier versions rely exclusively on AppleTalk.

For this reason, some older literature refers to AFP as "AppleTalk Filing Protocol".
Other literature may refer to AFP as "AppleShare", the name of the Mac OS 9 (and earlier) AFP client.

Notable current compatibility topics are:

-Mac OS X v10.4 and later eliminates support for AFP servers that rely solely on AppleTalk for communication.
-Computers using classic Mac OS can connect to AFP 3.x servers, with some limitations.
For example, the maximum file size in Mac OS 8 is 2 gigabytes.
-Typically, Mac OS 9.1 or later is recommended for connecting to AFP 3.x servers;

for versions of original Mac OS prior to 9.1,
installation of the AppleShare client 3.8.8 is required.

and within the .txt file i linked above:

AppleShare Client 3.7.4 is included with Mac OS 8.1. (Previous
versions of the AppleShare Client software were known as the
AppleShare Workstation Software.)

not really sure if this means that the software was packaged + included as an optional install alongside mac os 8.1, or if it means that any system with 8.6 installed (or upgraded to?) should already have the appleshare client installed....


this lists which os versions need what appleshare client version
(taken from: http://lists.cipiyou.be/%20Archives/Mac%20OS%20Classic/Apple%20Mac%20OS%207.0%20-%209.2/Apple%20Technologies/Apple%20AppleShare%20Client/About%20AppleShare%20Client%203.8.8.pdf

all those old versions appear to be here for download:
http://www.applefool.com/se30/

heres a download for 3.8.8
http://lists.cipiyou.be/%20Archives/Mac%20OS%20Classic/Apple%20Mac%20OS%207.0%20-%209.2/Apple%20Technologies/Apple%20AppleShare%20Client/

http://lists.cipiyou.be/%20Archives/Mac%20OS%20Classic/Apple%20Mac%20OS%207.0%20-%209.2/Apple%20Mac%20OS%208.6/

[macStuff]

I always wondered why DAWs won't work if you have Appletalk turned on. Why is that?

its because appletalk was over the same serial connection as the midi connection
and used the same resources.. and having both on at the same time was a recipe for failure

[Syntho]

I don't see the Appleshare icon at all. It has an Adobe icon there, but no Appleshare.