Author Topic: delicate bending  (Read 32457 times)

Offline dr bu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
  • inconsistent soul
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2016, 11:50:35 PM »
well, im using the roland VSC and it doesnt have a pitchbend-range controller/parameter. the only way to change this - is sysex.. if used as stand alone this can be done from Max via the IAC-bus..

also the VSC doesnt get the "get" message (or the other way around), it has 1330 params but only 31 of them will show up (without name, just the letter p), in a get request. (Roland HyperCanvas and HQ Orchestral will make my Max freeze when loaded into vst~ btw).

into the cheep GM concept as i am, i would have used the Quicktime synth if i knew a way to route its audio into Max (spigot~ doesnt work) and a more convenient way to change the pitchbend-range than going into OMS setup every time... 
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 12:17:07 AM by dr bu »
djupsinnig

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4439
  • just a number
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2016, 04:50:24 AM »
uh, VSC!
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline dr bu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
  • inconsistent soul
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2016, 06:29:07 AM »
Hey! hangin out with Chris these days?
djupsinnig

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4439
  • just a number
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2016, 02:07:10 PM »
dont remind me
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline dr bu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
  • inconsistent soul
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2016, 01:47:58 AM »
...bending reached a new level of delicacy some days passed.
my old sawtooth s`got a soul.
 
maybe its because i put my own into it? living in the fridge all by itself...i opened it, heeding die hards advice about exactly 1 gig of ram, not a sign of dust.

twang! all guitars in my neighborhood pale. a few by love, others by pure envy. success is revenge.
 
bu turns to his friends: [thresh~], [line~] and [seq]. well, [seq] is pretty stubborn.. by the book he should obey a written message appended by a simple path - not so.
also he is one of the most reliable sources for a program hiccup, so dr bu, whos whole life is a workaround tells [capture] to record the singing in the cold; temporary, in the crowd. [capture] is feed with seqformat-text, so anytime later [seq] can have a try without fucking up docs workflow.

more maxiana: [thresh~], expects a low and a high threshold obviously, much like hysteresis, thus reading from left to right like a good westerner, but the MSP reference example has it reversed. checking the online documentation this typo still exists 15 years later.

no, i think [delta~] is me best friend. all creatures will stumble before her beauty simplistiq. shes got the photographer always ready and when her husband speeks she sparkles the samples softened only by her lowpassed cutoffed arm.
oh yes.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 02:04:02 AM by dr bu »
djupsinnig

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4439
  • just a number
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2016, 07:19:09 PM »
by the book he should obey a written message appended by a simple path - not so.

i know this well from [vst~] and [text]

sometimes the workaround of using loadbang solves the problem - in rare cases not even that.

Quote
whos whole life is a workaround

:)

Quote
checking the online documentation this typo still exists 15 years later.

the collective, which is a completly different collective from the one 15 years ago, is not very good at fixing known bugs.

i found major bugs in meter~, degrade~, peakamp~ and several other issues and wrong documentations and sometimes i tend to think that the original developers of the objects and the company as such obviously dont speak to each other. i should know better, but thats what it feels like.

the advantages of using the same app for 15 years are still running out the disadvantage of finding more and more problems. :)

Quote
oh yes.

if you are finished with the poetic part, why not try detonate or an audiobuffer to record your pitch data?

of course, storing 24-bit values in detonate requires a complex transformation algo^^ but if you try hard enough...
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline dr bu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
  • inconsistent soul
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2016, 04:45:05 PM »
i looked at detonate now and then. did not know you could record that amount of data to it..audio buffer, that was my idea a few years ago. never came home. also seq~...gave up.
djupsinnig

Offline dr bu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
  • inconsistent soul
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2016, 10:52:44 PM »
..what do you mean loadbang can solve the problem with the bug in seq?
djupsinnig

Offline dr bu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
  • inconsistent soul
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2016, 08:13:17 AM »
off topic, but its my thred *)

max crashed as i was recording. 5 minutes 24bit/44.1 aiff.
size 58.9mb. waveform blank. is there header or something that can fix?


*) any comment boosting my ego or serious issues about Max is considered: on.
.whats "common sense" about this, or forum standard?

nevermind
talking to myself...
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 09:35:56 AM by dr bu »
djupsinnig

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4439
  • just a number
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2016, 11:47:13 AM »
"solving" means you you use [loadbang] -> "read myfile.mid" instad of typing the argument for the source file into the object box.

i guess it is rather a workaround, but it does wonders when you have trouble with using arguments.

you could also make yourself a "wrap" for seq which does this:

max v2;
#N vpatcher 226 62 826 462;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 235 169 85 9109513 prepend read;
#P newex 235 137 85 9109513 t $1;
#B color 14;
#P newex 235 105 85 9109513 loadbang;
#P outlet 192 234 15 0;
#P outlet 117 234 15 0;
#P inlet 117 143 15 0;
#P newex 117 189 85 9109513 seq;
#P connect 6 0 0 0;
#P connect 1 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 2 0;
#P connect 0 1 3 0;
#P connect 4 0 5 0;
#P connect 5 0 6 0;
#P pop;

this usually makes sure that your files are found and loaded at the right moment.

unless you are trying to load sprites into lcd, this is a bit more complicated to initialize things.


insert arbitrary signature here

Offline dr bu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
  • inconsistent soul
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2016, 02:57:54 PM »
ok. sorry
the problem with my poetry,

its not
specific
enough

the mission
is saving
a midifile
like so:

max v2;
#N vpatcher 155 174 785 628;
#P newex 37 143 71 196617 prepend write;
#P message 37 120 175 196617 Music_disc:Max_recordings:etyde_2001;
#P newex 37 182 27 196617 seq;
#P connect 1 0 2 0;
#P connect 2 0 0 0;
#P pop;

now the standard
savedialog window
keeps
popping
up
 >:(

if i dont have a crash
and my recording
get lost
 :'(


ive noticed that
this was corrected by
Max 4.6
djupsinnig

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4439
  • just a number
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2016, 08:06:07 PM »
moin ;)

that is simply not implemented.

detonate can do it...
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4439
  • just a number
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2017, 10:05:45 PM »
sie diskuiteren gerade mal wieder, dass auch das curve~  object in max 7.3 immer noch die bugs und anomalitäten von vor 16 jahren enthalten, es ist zum weinen.
https://cycling74.com/forums/topic/curve-doesnt-work-with-exact-same-messages-as-line/#.WGnlULn86Tk
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline dr bu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
  • inconsistent soul
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2017, 02:15:16 PM »
..that might be overreacting  :)
djupsinnig

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4439
  • just a number
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2017, 10:21:54 PM »
one day i finally learn this C++ shit and redo all OS9 objects until they actually work.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline dr bu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
  • inconsistent soul
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2017, 10:15:30 AM »
Formants in voice is very important to our image of who the character behind it might be.

You who read this, obvious as it may seem, and me being into the bending business and all, the problem, ever since Disneys chipmunks, is, shifting a (human) voice will also shift the formants. And these animal formats (i dont know how many, 3 at least, to distinguish vowels) dependent as they are on the vocal tract and not on the vocal cords, do not shift because we are not anatomically built like that.
 
I can tell the difference of an "o" from an "a", and so can you, most of the time, but as much as these (3 or more) resonating bands then, make a clear vowel at (almost) any pitch in human singing, i dont understand why plugins like the Waves UltraPitch, Steinbergs UltraVoice and Melodynes Formantshifting all should be controlled by one (1) control/parameter only.  >:(

Remedy: at Ircam they made the fof~ and the fog~, (luckily before OSX). and Miller Puckette made paf~ and formant~. i love this guys haircut/approach.
djupsinnig

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4439
  • just a number
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2017, 03:38:15 PM »
i´ve lost the thread... but i try to follow you... there was a thread at c74 recently where someone pointed to an article by miller puckette... where he suggested to correct the position and size of the formants of  an input to an fft pitch shifting algorithm by interpolating the result of the upsampled freqshift curve.... something like that.

because when you only move a spectral envelope for 50%, both the bandwidth and the relation between filter frequencies will be too broad.

or, the other scenario, you often watn to pitch shift but leave the formants as is, just like a singer does it...

so with 7-30 days of nerve killing work you will be able to do that right in max/msp using pfft and some fft related factory objects. but i wouldnt do it!

it is interesting that you often can still easily identify a known human voice - one among hundred - when it is properly pitch shifted (incl formant correction) for an octave or more ... this experiment proves very well how important formants are for human voices, musical instruments, and other forms of known sound events from our daily life... and it that order.

p.s. i am big fan of PAF, have you used it to make music?
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4439
  • just a number
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2017, 03:43:11 PM »
actually i dont think i have fof~ & co for OS9, that was ircam forum only, right?

i shall put up my collection here at anytime soon.

metrophage already helped me to complete it for 2 cool things.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline dr bu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
  • inconsistent soul
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2017, 08:36:51 PM »
I am a singer but i hate my own voice - at least i hate recognizing it. so i get into manipulating. a pulsetrain , some filters, resonators, a touch of white noise..i have had fun with plugins in cubase creating my own paf~.  sometimes i can't tell if the result sounds like dr bu inhaling on soar throat.
you can do some cool things in Praat as well, but its got an irritating interface.
djupsinnig

Offline dr bu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 230
  • inconsistent soul
Re: delicate bending
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2017, 10:02:51 AM »
After rebuilding the desktop all my Max-files have Max 3 icons (the cross eyed nerd). :( No other files seams to be affected.  ???
djupsinnig