Author Topic: delicate bending  (Read 10677 times)

Offline dr bu

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delicate bending
« on: September 29, 2016, 12:18:12 PM »
who thinks 127 is a good range for a gissando? whitch vstis got 14 bit pitchbend? and if you have to do it sysex, where is the easy to use compiler?
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Offline GaryN

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2016, 04:51:13 PM »
I assume you're referring to 127 as half of a 256-bit pitchbend range using 8 bits.
127 is not a range but rather the resolution.

If the maximum bend range is defined as 1 step (1/2 sharp or flat) the resolution is 1/2 step ÷ 127 which, if resolved properly by the plugin or whatever should be pretty darn "delicate".

14-bit bend would be ludicrous overkill… but you probably already know that.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 05:17:45 PM by GaryN »

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2016, 09:06:34 PM »
thats right "resolution" - not range. pitchbend-range is of course expressed in semitones.
 
ok, so pitchbend is sent to the vsti or a hardware synth via so called MSB and LSB (most and least significant bytes) sysex messages. most synths only read the pitchbend-MSB so the resolution is then 127. some can read LSB as well an viola! resolution becomes 16384 or 14 bit. now 127 may seem like a high enough number but lets say you want to carry out a glissando over 12 semitones. i often feel like it. this is not uncommon for a voice or violin. you will then end up with an ear training exercise, not a smooth glissando. on some synths the pitchbend-range can be set to 36 semitones or 3 octaves, maybe more. you will then be looking for some LSB.
or what if you are into exotic tunings. a 127 resolution is not sufficient when you want to play your JV-1010 like LaMonte Young.
the midi-implementation-chart will tell you how to change the resolution, if possible, but it has to be done in Hex. its tedious!
 
anyway, i was thinking maybe someone had walked this path before me.
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Offline GaryN

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2016, 04:05:20 PM »
You're analysis of pitchbend is pretty accurate. The issue is actually revealed in what you just posted. You're looking for a 12-semitone PORTAMENTO. That's not a pitchbend. Glissandos of the nature you describe are generated by triggering more that one note and the synth engine portamentoes (if there is such a word) from the 1st to the 2nd at a predetermined rate.

The resolution of that is determined internally rather that having to calculate and respond to a constantly varying external control signal.

I'm sure others have "walked this path before you". I suspect they have better success with actual analog hardware (no MSB LSB issues at all that way) and they probably don't try to play a JV-1010 (or most other mass-produced MIDI synths) that way.

I think you're wanting the MIDI 1.0 spec to perform like some future 5.0 spec that's not here yet.  The reason that pitchbend spec only carries 8 bits is because it's a spec. As such, it's designed as a careful compromise between ultimate performance and practical implementation across an entire industry that includes instruments ranging from $50,000 all the way down to $79.95.

The data density of a theoretical 14-bit pitchbend stream is well beyond the capacity of the control paths and circuits involved. It's also probably well beyond the resolution of what you actually need (I'm thinking 10 bits) to get the "smoothness" you want anyway.
 
At the end of the day, you're wishing for something that doesn't exist. Nothing wrong with that at all, that's how things improve.

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2016, 11:56:40 PM »
ok thanks Gary. but we are clearly getting our wires crossed here  ;)
http://www.midikits.net/midi_analyser/pitch_bend.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI_controller#Use_in_a_data_stream

relevant as my questions seems to me, maybe noone at this forum uses pitchbend  ;D
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 12:49:47 AM by dr bu »
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Offline widdly

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2016, 06:54:40 AM »
All of the synths I know respond to the full resolution  14bit pitchbend.  What synth only uses the MSB of pitchbend messages?  I wonder if you are sending the messages properly.

I like a +/- 1 octave bend range which would be VERY stepped with a 7 bit bend resolution.

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2016, 01:07:13 PM »
Right! I dont know how i missed that :-[ Thanks!

I like a +/- 1 octave bend range which would be VERY stepped with a 7 bit bend resolution.
Good for you  :)
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Offline GaryN

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2016, 06:16:12 PM »
OK. I apologize for my lack of clarity…it was late.
The point I'm ultimately trying to make is: Although the pitchbend spec provides two bytes per message to provide 16-odd thousand discrete steps, can you actually ever get that in a practical way?

Example:
I go into my sequencer and graphically draw a loong, straight PB line over enough measures to assure max visible resolution. I then look at those messages in a list and they are indeed, although not precisely 1-bit increments (more like 2 or 3 but close enough) I do now actually have a long string of 14-bit PB commands showing - lots and lots of them.

However…
Try as I might I cannot generate massages like that from any controller I have (admittedly, NOT $10k keyboards, but good common Yamaha & Roland stuff). The best I can get is 127 (rounded to 130) bit steps.
The controllers simply refuse to resolve and send anything finer that that.
I can actually push a PB wheel very slowly and see the message output blink on my Studio 5 each time a PB message is generated.
No settings, adjustments, hammer-smashing I can do will cause a finer, thicker, higher resolution of pitchbend data to be output and sent.

This is what I was so poorly trying to say yesterday… Although the controllers do send 14-bit numbers, they don't send enough of them. Rather, they seem to send no more than they would in an 8-bit mode.
Actually, the numbers they do send, seem to very much correspond to 14 bits quantized down to 8.
I believe this is simply because if they did, you'd have a good chance of choking an entire sequenced MIDI stream every time you implemented a bend unless there were NO other instruments / data in the sequence. None of this applies to a self-contained instrument of course, where the relationship between engine and controller can be as precise as the designer wants. But, we're talking about controllers, synths, VSTi's and such here that communicate via the MIDI stream. So, although the resolution is in the spec, I don't see it actually being implemented effectively in practice. It seems to be just another one of those things they consider to be a fringe situation that you get to go in and edit / improve after recording if necessary.

God knows, my name is NOT Oppenheim and there's a whole helluva lot I don't know about the tiny details of electronic musical hardware and software, but this is my experience. If I'm out to lunch here, I'd love to have somebody educate me a little. I'm not yet too old to learn something…

Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2016, 03:23:20 PM »
I assume you're referring to 127 as half of a 256-bit pitchbend range using 8 bits.
127 is not a range but rather the resolution.

hm, yeah, he mixed up range and resolution, but if we start like that then i would like to point out that a 256-bit pitchbend also does not exist.

nor does 8-bits play a role here.

or 7.

nothing of that exists.

pitchbend always was using 14 bit numbers made out of two 7 bit words.

Quote
14-bit bend would be ludicrous overkill… but you probably already know that.

and i wholeheartly (or however that word is supposed to be written) disagree that 8 bits over 7 bits is a sufficient solution for pitch bend.

for "bend" maybe - because most signal generators would interpolate the parameter input anyway - and the parameter input has a very low time rate - but not for "pitch".

you probably know that some people are using the pitch bend controller to do microtuning with devices which dont support it in another way. for tuning frequencies for music 32 bit floating point would be nice - and 64 bits would be what you´d like to have.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 03:33:40 PM by IIO »
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2016, 03:31:36 PM »
...
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline GaryN

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2016, 08:44:18 PM »
I assume you're referring to 127 as half of a 256-bit pitchbend range using 8 bits.
127 is not a range but rather the resolution.

hm, yeah, he mixed up range and resolution, but if we start like that then i would like to point out that a 256-bit pitchbend also does not exist.

nor does 8-bits play a role here.

or 7.

nothing of that exists.

pitchbend always was using 14 bit numbers made out of two 7 bit words.

Quote
14-bit bend would be ludicrous overkill… but you probably already know that.

and i wholeheartly (or however that word is supposed to be written) disagree that 8 bits over 7 bits is a sufficient solution for pitch bend.

for "bend" maybe - because most signal generators would interpolate the parameter input anyway - and the parameter input has a very low time rate - but not for "pitch".

you probably know that some people are using the pitch bend controller to do microtuning with devices which dont support it in another way. for tuning frequencies for music 32 bit floating point would be nice - and 64 bits would be what you´d like to have.

I gotta admit llO, as is so often the case, I have NO friggin' idea what you're talking about, but i think it is not what I'm talking about.

Dr bu was wanting 14-bit pitchbend. I was pointing out that I can't get a controller to generate anything finer in 14-bit than one could get if the bend spec was 8-bit. The damn things send big 14-bit numbers but skip so many that having 14-bit numbers is a waste of data.

We all know there's no such thing as 256-bit pitchbend. 256 is the maximum number generated with 8 bits. (as -127,0,127)

The MIDI spec for pitchbend is 14 bits for 16384 maximum. (as -8192,0,8192)

The reality however, seems to be that all that is commonly generated, transmitted, resolved and acted upon is the equivalent resolution you could get with just 8 bits.


Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2016, 05:44:37 PM »
in Max we have one object: bendout~, for 7-bit and another: xbendout~, for 14-bit. the difference between them is obvious to any ear.
since this is programming and not wheelbending i can with the latter oject sit on any of 16384 steps, which is delicate enough for my needs.
and yes, as can be examined in a listeditor, 7-bit pichbend is actually 14 (LSB is always zero).
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 07:52:19 PM by dr bu »
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2016, 08:38:18 PM »
I gotta admit llO, as is so often the case, I have NO friggin' idea what you're talking about, but i think it is not what I'm talking about.

...

The reality however, seems to be that all that is commonly generated, transmitted, resolved and acted upon is the equivalent resolution you could get with just 8 bits.

the reality often seems to be quite different from what we think how it is.

hardware controllers are only one of many options how to generate data, and in conjuntion with software plug-ins the relevance to software-generated controller data is raising from year to year.

the fact that most hardware controllers would not allow to produce data of a higher range or precision than what 7 or 8 bit offers does not automatically mean that 7 or 8 bits is sufficient for tuning audio material for music.

as someone already pointed out, you might want to use up to 1 or 2 octaves for a "pitch bend controller", and if you do so, you wil be happy to have the full 14 bit range, or even floating point at your hands.

since bu is using host applications such as max/msp, it will be normal for him to generate 32 bit data - and that is why it is a pity that most vst plug-ins only support some form of virtual midi with the usual shit resolution of midi.

unless you are using logic audio, you will control plug-ins with 32 bits data anyway as soon as you access the VST parameters directly.

and there are various usb controllers which can send up to 10 bits, and there are network protocols which support whatever you want, too...
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 08:58:56 PM by IIO »
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline GaryN

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2016, 09:27:56 PM »
And as usual, we now come to that familiar crossroads where performance and programming meet and then diverge. Where your inspiration takes you outside of the "norms" and so you have to find a way to create / generate / program what you hear in your head to force your non-compliant mediocre hardware into reproducing your artistic vision.

Some of us will take the path less trodden and gradually become number-crunching, bit-tweaking, precision seeking tech / musician hybrids seeking a way to get that subtle little "thing" we desire to actually happen despite the lack of commercial product available to help.

Some of us will just say "Fuck it" and write the damn song.

Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2016, 12:00:08 PM »
it is an interesting question if those who stopped using what the market gave us as "norms" and asked for more or migrated further are somehow more progressive or if they are just to dumb to properly use a modwheel.

in my case you would be right; i haven´t played live for 20 years and i am not even producing anymore, instead i am working on a totally different field.

but it is not like noone would be using 10 or 12 bit controller hardware or programming language scripts in a live situation.

in my opinion there is always at least two branches or (different forms?) of "technological progress", one of which i would agreee with you that you dont need it for productivity or fun.

most professional players of medieval crooked horns will ask you why you are using keyboards with mod wheels instead of just playing the danmed song, too, these things are always a matter of perspective.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline GaryN

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2016, 05:03:39 PM »
Amen

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2016, 08:02:21 PM »
I gotta admit llO, as is so often the case, I have NO friggin' idea what you're talking about, but i think it is not what I'm talking about.
Amen
:D
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Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2016, 10:26:56 PM »
in Max (still 4.1 ofcourse), is it possible to send sysex-data to the vst~ object?
i think not.
according to the manual a vst~ oriented midievent-message is supposed to be followed by 2-4 numbers.
the first 2-3 numbers happily send regular note and control-messages.
(the fourth number is a 7-bit pitchbend-message which doesnt seem to be implemented correctly btw)
anyway, importing a midifile containing sysex into the seq-object i notice (textview) it splits the array into chunks of 4!
thats why i came up with this idea  ::)
(in re-saving, this data get lost.. seq:s midi-textformat seems to be max-only)
i had a look at cycling 74s forum about this, no luck...
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2016, 08:42:43 AM »
note that "midievent message" is already something totally different than MIDI in max.

where you would send "midievent 144 64 60" to [vst~] you would send something like "x90 x3C x40" to a midi device.

so nope, there is no midi-in at all in the vst object, even when there is a midi implementation in the plug-in. instead you can send a quasi vst controller data to all parameters of the plug-in (which you cant do in cubase and protools)

"midievent" only handles note on and note off (and fake-"all notes off") properly, i wouldnt use it for controller messages at all.

incoming midi data should be caught by [midiin] and formatted properly by yourself - exactly the way you want it to work.

the fourth argument, btw, is note number microtuning, not wheel, and to my knowledge there is no VST plug-in on OS9 which would support it (eventually native instruments stuff, havent testet those, but otherwise midi microtuning in vst~ is a windows OS thing.)

in my opinion it is far easier to check the the plug-ins architecture by the "get" messages to vst~ and then convert incoming MIDI to vst controller data: "5 0.7"

have you worked with the "get" stuff yet? i have made a nice overview once, will see if i find it.

in addition it can also be "better" because it raises the controller resolution from 7 to 32 bit, so that you are for example able to interpolate the incoming data from a hardware controller - or set it to an exact value of your choice.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2016, 09:04:25 AM »
sysex isnt supported at all, not from the host, not from plugins. there are for sure better ways to do what you want.

to come back to your original question i would also like to suggest to create such a synthesizer right in max/msp or use VST plug-ins which have a good internal glissando/portamento effect (there are plenty)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2016, 11:50:35 PM »
well, im using the roland VSC and it doesnt have a pitchbend-range controller/parameter. the only way to change this - is sysex.. if used as stand alone this can be done from Max via the IAC-bus..

also the VSC doesnt get the "get" message (or the other way around), it has 1330 params but only 31 of them will show up (without name, just the letter p), in a get request. (Roland HyperCanvas and HQ Orchestral will make my Max freeze when loaded into vst~ btw).

into the cheep GM concept as i am, i would have used the Quicktime synth if i knew a way to route its audio into Max (spigot~ doesnt work) and a more convenient way to change the pitchbend-range than going into OMS setup every time... 
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 12:17:07 AM by dr bu »
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2016, 04:50:24 AM »
uh, VSC!
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2016, 06:29:07 AM »
Hey! hangin out with Chris these days?
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2016, 02:07:10 PM »
dont remind me
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2016, 01:47:58 AM »
...bending reached a new level of delicacy some days passed.
my old sawtooth s`got a soul.
 
maybe its because i put my own into it? living in the fridge all by itself...i opened it, heeding die hards advice about exactly 1 gig of ram, not a sign of dust.

twang! all guitars in my neighborhood pale. a few by love, others by pure envy. success is revenge.
 
bu turns to his friends: [thresh~], [line~] and [seq]. well, [seq] is pretty stubborn.. by the book he should obey a written message appended by a simple path - not so.
also he is one of the most reliable sources for a program hiccup, so dr bu, whos whole life is a workaround tells [capture] to record the singing in the cold; temporary, in the crowd. [capture] is feed with seqformat-text, so anytime later [seq] can have a try without fucking up docs workflow.

more maxiana: [thresh~], expects a low and a high threshold obviously, much like hysteresis, thus reading from left to right like a good westerner, but the MSP reference example has it reversed. checking the online documentation this typo still exists 15 years later.

no, i think [delta~] is me best friend. all creatures will stumble before her beauty simplistiq. shes got the photographer always ready and when her husband speeks she sparkles the samples softened only by her lowpassed cutoffed arm.
oh yes.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 02:04:02 AM by dr bu »
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2016, 07:19:09 PM »
by the book he should obey a written message appended by a simple path - not so.

i know this well from [vst~] and [text]

sometimes the workaround of using loadbang solves the problem - in rare cases not even that.

Quote
whos whole life is a workaround

:)

Quote
checking the online documentation this typo still exists 15 years later.

the collective, which is a completly different collective from the one 15 years ago, is not very good at fixing known bugs.

i found major bugs in meter~, degrade~, peakamp~ and several other issues and wrong documentations and sometimes i tend to think that the original developers of the objects and the company as such obviously dont speak to each other. i should know better, but thats what it feels like.

the advantages of using the same app for 15 years are still running out the disadvantage of finding more and more problems. :)

Quote
oh yes.

if you are finished with the poetic part, why not try detonate or an audiobuffer to record your pitch data?

of course, storing 24-bit values in detonate requires a complex transformation algo^^ but if you try hard enough...
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2016, 04:45:05 PM »
i looked at detonate now and then. did not know you could record that amount of data to it..audio buffer, that was my idea a few years ago. never came home. also seq~...gave up.
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Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2016, 10:52:44 PM »
..what do you mean loadbang can solve the problem with the bug in seq?
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Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2016, 08:13:17 AM »
off topic, but its my thred *)

max crashed as i was recording. 5 minutes 24bit/44.1 aiff.
size 58.9mb. waveform blank. is there header or something that can fix?


*) any comment boosting my ego or serious issues about Max is considered: on.
.whats "common sense" about this, or forum standard?

nevermind
talking to myself...
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 09:35:56 AM by dr bu »
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2016, 11:47:13 AM »
"solving" means you you use [loadbang] -> "read myfile.mid" instad of typing the argument for the source file into the object box.

i guess it is rather a workaround, but it does wonders when you have trouble with using arguments.

you could also make yourself a "wrap" for seq which does this:

max v2;
#N vpatcher 226 62 826 462;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 235 169 85 9109513 prepend read;
#P newex 235 137 85 9109513 t $1;
#B color 14;
#P newex 235 105 85 9109513 loadbang;
#P outlet 192 234 15 0;
#P outlet 117 234 15 0;
#P inlet 117 143 15 0;
#P newex 117 189 85 9109513 seq;
#P connect 6 0 0 0;
#P connect 1 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 2 0;
#P connect 0 1 3 0;
#P connect 4 0 5 0;
#P connect 5 0 6 0;
#P pop;

this usually makes sure that your files are found and loaded at the right moment.

unless you are trying to load sprites into lcd, this is a bit more complicated to initialize things.


"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2016, 02:57:54 PM »
ok. sorry
the problem with my poetry,

its not
specific
enough

the mission
is saving
a midifile
like so:

max v2;
#N vpatcher 155 174 785 628;
#P newex 37 143 71 196617 prepend write;
#P message 37 120 175 196617 Music_disc:Max_recordings:etyde_2001;
#P newex 37 182 27 196617 seq;
#P connect 1 0 2 0;
#P connect 2 0 0 0;
#P pop;

now the standard
savedialog window
keeps
popping
up
 >:(

if i dont have a crash
and my recording
get lost
 :'(


ive noticed that
this was corrected by
Max 4.6
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2016, 08:06:07 PM »
moin ;)

that is simply not implemented.

detonate can do it...
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2017, 10:05:45 PM »
sie diskuiteren gerade mal wieder, dass auch das curve~  object in max 7.3 immer noch die bugs und anomalitäten von vor 16 jahren enthalten, es ist zum weinen.
https://cycling74.com/forums/topic/curve-doesnt-work-with-exact-same-messages-as-line/#.WGnlULn86Tk
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2017, 02:15:16 PM »
..that might be overreacting  :)
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2017, 10:21:54 PM »
one day i finally learn this C++ shit and redo all OS9 objects until they actually work.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2017, 10:15:30 AM »
Formants in voice is very important to our image of who the character behind it might be.

You who read this, obvious as it may seem, and me being into the bending business and all, the problem, ever since Disneys chipmunks, is, shifting a (human) voice will also shift the formants. And these animal formats (i dont know how many, 3 at least, to distinguish vowels) dependent as they are on the vocal tract and not on the vocal cords, do not shift because we are not anatomically built like that.
 
I can tell the difference of an "o" from an "a", and so can you, most of the time, but as much as these (3 or more) resonating bands then, make a clear vowel at (almost) any pitch in human singing, i dont understand why plugins like the Waves UltraPitch, Steinbergs UltraVoice and Melodynes Formantshifting all should be controlled by one (1) control/parameter only.  >:(

Remedy: at Ircam they made the fof~ and the fog~, (luckily before OSX). and Miller Puckette made paf~ and formant~. i love this guys haircut/approach.
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2017, 03:38:15 PM »
i´ve lost the thread... but i try to follow you... there was a thread at c74 recently where someone pointed to an article by miller puckette... where he suggested to correct the position and size of the formants of  an input to an fft pitch shifting algorithm by interpolating the result of the upsampled freqshift curve.... something like that.

because when you only move a spectral envelope for 50%, both the bandwidth and the relation between filter frequencies will be too broad.

or, the other scenario, you often watn to pitch shift but leave the formants as is, just like a singer does it...

so with 7-30 days of nerve killing work you will be able to do that right in max/msp using pfft and some fft related factory objects. but i wouldnt do it!

it is interesting that you often can still easily identify a known human voice - one among hundred - when it is properly pitch shifted (incl formant correction) for an octave or more ... this experiment proves very well how important formants are for human voices, musical instruments, and other forms of known sound events from our daily life... and it that order.

p.s. i am big fan of PAF, have you used it to make music?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2017, 03:43:11 PM »
actually i dont think i have fof~ & co for OS9, that was ircam forum only, right?

i shall put up my collection here at anytime soon.

metrophage already helped me to complete it for 2 cool things.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2017, 08:36:51 PM »
I am a singer but i hate my own voice - at least i hate recognizing it. so i get into manipulating. a pulsetrain , some filters, resonators, a touch of white noise..i have had fun with plugins in cubase creating my own paf~.  sometimes i can't tell if the result sounds like dr bu inhaling on soar throat.
you can do some cool things in Praat as well, but its got an irritating interface.
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Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2017, 10:02:51 AM »
After rebuilding the desktop all my Max-files have Max 3 icons (the cross eyed nerd). :( No other files seams to be affected.  ???
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Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2017, 04:19:50 PM »
That should have been a thread by its own. Solution could be of general interest.

Tried a small app called Save a BNDL. Nope.
This apps readme tells me to make desktop DB and desktop DF visible and trash these. Tried that.
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2017, 12:46:12 AM »
you were looking in the right direction, file icons indeed are coming out of the BNDL resource and are linked via desktio file.

but your solution was the wrong attempt. :)

you have max 3 icons most likely because there is a max 3 app somewhere on your harddisk - that includes apps made with max 3.

in casre there is a problem with the max 4 info on your disk, it should be enough to crreate afresh copy of you max 4 and max 4 runtime executables. copy, keep copy and delete original, empty trash, reboot.

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2017, 05:15:57 AM »
right. i knew that! >:( forgot to empty trash. thanks.

this is fof~ co os9  :)

ive got 500 mb Ircam stuff. i think so big because of audio. i can upload somewhere.

p.s. are you on caffeine? your spelling is deteriorating.
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2017, 01:09:10 PM »
ok i will post you a link to my place later ;)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2017, 08:01:36 AM »
Att göra en fyrkantsvåg av en sinuston är en bit av en kaka.. [<~]
Tvärtom är ett helvete.  ???
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2017, 03:50:46 PM »
yes of course, because you dont know what the phase is.

in gen you can do it by finding zerocrossings, in max everything you do will only be a workaround.

p.s. are you aware of trunc~ ?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2017, 04:02:13 PM »
on a PPC machine the most cpu friedly approach should be this:

bitor~ 0 1

:)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2017, 11:42:18 PM »
how? i dont get. my stupid math brain would check the amount of samples between the previous 2 zerocrossings in the squarewave and copy that to the sinewave, thus lagging 180°. of course this will create a slight interference between the two if the squarewave alters in frequency, but that would not be a problem for me at this point.
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Offline GaryN

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2017, 12:04:32 AM »
You guys really need to get a room…

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2017, 10:39:27 PM »
No need to get jealous Gary. Obviously you got far more rooms to make out in - than me at least. :)
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Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2017, 11:04:04 PM »
...simply put 110, i want to let the output of weave~ drive lookup~  ;)
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Offline GaryN

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2017, 04:54:06 PM »
(Sigh) Just because I have room doesn't mean I'm getting any…

Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2017, 03:27:06 AM »
eventually i just lost you, but your idea of zerocrossings is probably a misconception. the exact point of a zerocrossing will not be exactly at the beginning one sample.

the first sample could have a value 0.70 and the second sample a value of -0.11 - now when does the crossing happen? right: it even depends on the waveform.

best practice when you need to snyc "oscillators": start from a master phasor~ and start to generate everything else right from this.

cycle, cos, and basic arithmic and maybe also obejcts like zigzag are your first starting point for useful transfer functions controlled by a master phasor.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2017, 03:28:27 AM »
...simply put 110, i want to let the output of weave~ drive lookup~  ;)

uh oh. no percolate on windows. i am checking that tomorrow. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #54 on: March 12, 2017, 04:21:20 PM »
tricky?  ;D
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2017, 04:27:10 AM »
...i simply never used weave :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2017, 06:36:43 AM »
whats wrong with my paf~ ?

max v2;
#N vpatcher 283 64 1110 966;
#P newex 455 601 45 196617 loadbang;
#P newex 459 376 44 196617 +~ 100.;
#P newex 455 647 42 196617 uzi 200;
#P newex 487 679 27 196617 - 1;
#P newex 487 801 51 196617 peek~ foo;
#P newex 487 772 49 196617 pack 0 0.;
#P newex 549 707 100 196617 expr ($f1-100) /25;
#P newex 549 730 100 196617 expr exp(-$f1*$f1);
#P newex 272 570 83 196617 clip~ -0.99 0.99;
#P comment 488 425 62 196617 waveshaper;
#P newex 547 801 105 196617 buffer~ foo 4.512472;
#P newex 459 403 110 196617 lookup~ foo;
#P comment 304 522 45 196617 ring mod;
#P comment 507 379 115 196617 offset to middle of table;
#P comment 593 318 75 196617 range for table;
#P comment 589 270 63 196617 divide by F0;
#P newex 550 280 27 196617 *~;
#P comment 306 249 82 196617 cf relative to F0;
#P newex 272 519 27 196617 *~;
#P newex 459 347 101 196617 *~;
#P newex 459 324 29 196617 cos~;
#P newex 459 301 43 196617 -~ 0.25;
#P newex 459 275 39 196617 *~ 0.5;
#P newex 290 287 29 196617 sah~;
#P newex 290 139 30 196617 line~;
#P newex 550 316 39 196617 *~ 25.;
#P newex 550 243 30 196617 line~;
#P comment 542 102 59 196617 bandwidth;
#P newex 550 170 52 196617 pack 0 50;
#P newex 550 147 29 196617 mtof;
#P number 550 126 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P newex 290 116 52 196617 pack 0 50;
#P newex 290 94 29 196617 mtof;
#P number 290 73 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P newex 311 206 60 196617 expr 1/$f1;
#P newex 180 143 29 196617 mtof;
#P number 180 122 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P user meter~ 297 606 310 727 100 0 168 0 247 247 247 255 153 0 255 0 0;
#P user gain~ 272 606 24 100 158 0 1.071519 7.94321 10.;
#P toggle 255 803 15 0;
#P newex 272 803 50 196617 dac~;
#P comment 176 89 41 196617 freq F0;
#P comment 284 46 59 196617 center freq;
#P newex 289 406 29 196617 cos~;
#P newex 289 383 27 196617 +~;
#P newex 272 485 27 196617 +~;
#P newex 289 460 45 196617 *~;
#P newex 289 435 27 196617 -~;
#P newex 248 406 29 196617 cos~;
#P newex 248 382 27 196617 *~;
#P newex 290 348 27 196617 -~;
#P newex 290 228 31 196617 *~;
#P newex 180 233 44 196617 phasor~;
#P newex 324 326 65 196617 pong~ 1 0. 1.;
#P connect 17 0 18 0;
#P connect 18 0 1 0;
#P connect 1 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 5 0;
#P connect 3 0 4 1;
#P connect 5 0 8 0;
#P connect 8 0 35 0;
#P connect 35 0 45 0;
#P connect 45 0 15 0;
#P fasten 15 0 13 0 277 765 277 765;
#P hidden connect 14 0 13 0;
#P connect 4 0 9 0;
#P connect 9 0 10 0;
#P connect 10 0 6 0;
#P connect 6 0 7 0;
#P connect 7 0 8 1;
#P connect 42 0 35 1;
#P connect 20 0 21 0;
#P connect 21 0 22 0;
#P connect 22 0 29 0;
#P connect 29 0 2 0;
#P connect 2 0 30 0;
#P connect 30 0 3 0;
#P hidden connect 15 0 16 0;
#P connect 1 0 9 1;
#P connect 5 0 6 1;
#P connect 0 0 3 1;
#P connect 1 0 30 1;
#P connect 18 0 19 0;
#P connect 19 0 2 1;
#P fasten 15 0 13 1 277 765 317 765;
#P connect 30 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 7 1;
#P connect 53 0 51 0;
#P connect 1 0 31 0;
#P connect 31 0 32 0;
#P connect 32 0 33 0;
#P connect 33 0 34 0;
#P connect 34 0 52 0;
#P connect 52 0 42 0;
#P connect 51 2 50 0;
#P connect 50 0 48 0;
#P connect 48 0 49 0;
#P connect 46 0 48 1;
#P connect 50 0 47 0;
#P connect 47 0 46 0;
#P connect 23 0 24 0;
#P connect 24 0 25 0;
#P connect 25 0 27 0;
#P connect 27 0 37 0;
#P connect 37 0 28 0;
#P connect 28 0 34 1;
#P connect 19 0 37 1;
#P pop;
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2017, 07:11:35 AM »

all i see is that i dont hear anything.

you cant just replace samphold~ with sah~ i guess, samphold~ is more.

save this as 110.pd.samphold~

#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 139 181 53 196617 >~ -1;
#P newex 217 199 53 196617 gate~;
#P outlet 343 217 15 0;
#P inlet 61 148 15 0;
#P inlet 139 73 15 0;
#P newex 260 164 53 196617 sah~;
#P newex 343 164 53 196617 gate~;
#P newex 428 146 53 196617 ==~ -1;
#P newex 139 128 53 196617 change~;
#P connect 0 0 8 0;
#P connect 0 0 1 0;
#P connect 5 0 3 0;
#P connect 5 0 2 1;
#P connect 7 0 6 0;
#P connect 2 0 6 0;
#P connect 1 0 2 0;
#P connect 1 0 3 1;
#P connect 3 0 7 1;
#P connect 8 0 7 0;
#P connect 4 0 0 0;
#P window clipboard copycount 9;

another trap to check for is floating point. in pd there is only float. so in max one have to add a 0. in some cases. except for mtof of course :)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 07:27:30 AM by IIO »
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2017, 07:17:52 AM »
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #59 on: July 04, 2017, 05:05:16 PM »
ok. done. still, does not seem right. preset 1 sounds ok, but changing values like the other presets does not. i suspect something is wrong with the lookup~/bufferwindow settings...

max v2;
#N vpatcher 166 61 1338 1000;
#P flonum 450 285 35 9 0. 100. 3 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P flonum 364 387 35 9 0. 100. 3 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#N vpreset 8;
#X append 1 2 14 787 126 toggle int 1 \; 15 590 143 gain~ list 87 10. \; 17 106 51 number int 59 \; 20 57 161 number int 65 \; 23 110 421 number int 60 \; 55 387 364 flonum;
#X append 1 2 float 0. \; 56 285 450 flonum float 0.25 \;;
#X append 2 2 14 787 126 toggle int 1 \; 15 590 143 gain~ list 87 10. \; 17 106 51 number int 61 \; 20 57 161 number int 71 \; 23 110 421 number int 89 \; 55 387 364 flonum;
#X append 2 2 float 0. \; 56 285 450 flonum float 0.25 \;;
#X append 3 2 14 787 126 toggle int 1 \; 15 590 143 gain~ list 87 10. \; 17 106 51 number int 61 \; 20 57 161 number int 71 \; 23 110 421 number int 122 \; 55 387 364 flonum;
#X append 3 2 float 0. \; 56 285 450 flonum float 0.25 \;;
#X append 4 2 14 787 126 toggle int 1 \; 15 590 143 gain~ list 87 10. \; 17 106 51 number int 61 \; 20 57 161 number int 71 \; 23 110 421 number int 139 \; 55 387 364 flonum;
#X append 4 2 float 0. \; 56 285 450 flonum float 0.25 \;;
#X append 5 2 14 787 126 toggle int 1 \; 15 590 143 gain~ list 87 10. \; 17 106 51 number int 31 \; 20 57 161 number int 83 \; 23 110 421 number int 59 \; 55 387 364 flonum;
#X append 5 2 float 0. \; 56 285 450 flonum float 0.25 \;;
#X append 6 2 14 787 126 toggle int 1 \; 15 590 143 gain~ list 87 10. \; 17 106 51 number int 31 \; 20 57 161 number int 83 \; 23 110 421 number int 59 \; 55 387 364 flonum;
#X append 6 2 float 100. \; 56 285 450 flonum float 0.25 \;;
#X append 7 2 14 787 126 toggle int 1 \; 15 590 143 gain~ list 87 10. \; 17 106 51 number int 22 \; 20 57 161 number int 83 \; 23 110 421 number int 59 \; 55 387 364 flonum;
#X append 7 2 float 100. \; 56 285 450 flonum float 25. \;;
#X append 8 2 14 787 126 toggle int 1 \; 15 590 143 gain~ list 87 10. \; 17 106 51 number int 22 \; 20 57 161 number int 61 \; 23 110 421 number int 34 \; 55 387 364 flonum;
#X append 8 2 float 100. \; 56 285 450 flonum float 25. \;;
#P preset 540 192 47 27;
#P newex 596 81 45 196617 loadbang;
#P newex 330 409 44 196617 +~ 100.;
#P newex 596 129 42 196617 uzi 200;
#P newex 628 161 27 196617 - 1;
#P newex 628 283 51 196617 peek~ foo;
#P newex 628 254 49 196617 pack 0 0.;
#P newex 690 189 100 196617 expr ($f1-100) /25;
#P newex 690 212 100 196617 expr exp(-$f1*$f1);
#P newex 143 554 83 196617 clip~ -0.99 0.99;
#P comment 359 458 62 196617 waveshaper;
#P newex 688 283 105 196617 buffer~ foo 4.512472;
#P newex 330 436 110 196617 lookup~ foo;
#P comment 177 504 45 196617 ring mod;
#P comment 386 412 115 196617 offset to middle of table;
#P comment 464 309 75 196617 range for table;
#P comment 460 254 63 196617 divide by F0;
#P newex 421 264 27 196617 *~;
#P comment 177 233 82 196617 cf relative to F0;
#P newex 143 503 27 196617 *~;
#P newex 330 331 101 196617 *~;
#P newex 330 308 29 196617 cos~;
#P newex 330 285 43 196617 -~ 0.25;
#P newex 330 259 39 196617 *~ 0.5;
#P newex 161 271 89 196617 110.pd.samphold~;
#P newex 161 123 30 196617 line~;
#P newex 421 307 39 196617 *~ 25.;
#P newex 421 227 30 196617 line~;
#P comment 413 86 59 196617 bandwidth;
#P newex 421 154 52 196617 pack 0 50;
#P newex 421 131 29 196617 mtof;
#P number 421 110 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P newex 161 100 52 196617 pack 0 50;
#P newex 161 78 29 196617 mtof;
#P number 161 57 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P newex 182 190 60 196617 expr 1/$f1;
#P newex 51 127 29 196617 mtof;
#P number 51 106 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P user meter~ 168 590 181 711 100 0 168 0 247 247 247 255 153 0 255 0 0;
#P user gain~ 143 590 24 100 158 0 1.071519 7.94321 10.;
#P toggle 126 787 15 0;
#P newex 143 787 50 196617 dac~;
#P comment 47 73 41 196617 freq F0;
#P comment 155 30 59 196617 center freq;
#P newex 160 390 29 196617 cos~;
#P newex 160 367 27 196617 +~;
#P newex 143 469 27 196617 +~;
#P newex 160 444 45 196617 *~;
#P newex 160 419 27 196617 -~;
#P newex 119 390 29 196617 cos~;
#P newex 119 366 27 196617 *~;
#P newex 161 332 27 196617 -~;
#P newex 161 212 31 196617 *~;
#P newex 51 217 44 196617 phasor~;
#P newex 195 310 65 196617 pong~ 1 0. 1.;
#P connect 17 0 18 0;
#P connect 18 0 1 0;
#P connect 1 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 5 0;
#P connect 3 0 4 1;
#P connect 5 0 8 0;
#P connect 8 0 35 0;
#P connect 35 0 45 0;
#P connect 45 0 15 0;
#P fasten 15 0 13 0 148 749 148 749;
#P hidden connect 14 0 13 0;
#P connect 4 0 9 0;
#P connect 9 0 10 0;
#P connect 10 0 6 0;
#P connect 6 0 7 0;
#P connect 7 0 8 1;
#P connect 42 0 35 1;
#P connect 20 0 21 0;
#P connect 21 0 22 0;
#P connect 22 0 29 0;
#P connect 29 0 2 0;
#P connect 2 0 30 0;
#P connect 30 0 3 0;
#P hidden connect 15 0 16 0;
#P connect 1 0 9 1;
#P connect 5 0 6 1;
#P connect 0 0 3 1;
#P connect 18 0 19 0;
#P connect 19 0 2 1;
#P fasten 15 0 13 1 148 749 188 749;
#P connect 30 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 7 1;
#P connect 1 0 30 1;
#P connect 1 0 31 0;
#P connect 31 0 32 0;
#P connect 32 0 33 0;
#P connect 33 0 34 0;
#P connect 34 0 52 0;
#P connect 52 0 42 0;
#P connect 55 0 52 1;
#P connect 23 0 24 0;
#P connect 24 0 25 0;
#P connect 25 0 27 0;
#P connect 27 0 37 0;
#P connect 37 0 28 0;
#P connect 28 0 34 1;
#P connect 19 0 37 1;
#P connect 56 0 28 1;
#P connect 53 0 51 0;
#P connect 51 2 50 0;
#P connect 50 0 48 0;
#P connect 48 0 49 0;
#P connect 46 0 48 1;
#P connect 50 0 47 0;
#P connect 47 0 46 0;
#P pop;
knowledge is interesting

Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #60 on: July 05, 2017, 02:16:51 AM »
have you compared against my paf-modulator yet?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #61 on: July 05, 2017, 02:19:58 AM »
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #62 on: July 05, 2017, 02:29:26 AM »
Like to see it very much. Do you happen to have it in 4.1? :)
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #63 on: July 05, 2017, 02:34:01 AM »
i mostyl post in 4.x to the forums. you only need to remove the .mxb file extension.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #64 on: July 05, 2017, 02:40:35 AM »
your bell curve looks ok and there ius also signal output at your lookup table. no idea why the frequecnies would be wrong.

the only thing i noticed is that your buffer doesnt initialize on load. i am also unsure why, the patch seems right.

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #65 on: July 05, 2017, 02:42:26 AM »
i found out that macminis make a great standalone synth when you know max. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #66 on: September 17, 2017, 10:02:31 AM »
 :o
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2017, 07:11:23 PM »
time to reboot.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #68 on: September 18, 2017, 11:46:32 AM »
Guess so my friend ;) ..but what does it imply technically?  I've never seen this message regarding any other program. Is there a way to avoid this type of crash?
knowledge is interesting

Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2017, 09:27:44 AM »
it should (i.e. unless something went really, really wrong) imply that the MacOS thinks the app is still open.

i have seen that once, but cant remember in what context or with which program it was.

quitting an app with a third party process killer which doesnt work right could cause that, or maybe faulty RAM, i am not sure what in OS9 is whatching open processes and i dont think one can refresh that info other than rebooting.

it´s ok now or did it come back?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #70 on: September 19, 2017, 09:35:22 AM »
in osx there is a "list of open files" which doesnt make a difference between executables, documents and for examples disk images (you may have seen that before when putting a file from a toast image or dmg into the trash and attempt to empty it)

in OS9 i think it is different, there must be something like a "process watcher".

next time you see this, check what system profiler & co say about currently running processes.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #71 on: September 24, 2017, 01:15:59 PM »
.. its OK.  My Titan Mactron recover cd system SSD is inclined to this.  Not the Gigabit Ethernet swedish 9.2.2 15 years IDEATA whatever though. So what to look for in System profiler i don't get..
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Offline IIO

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #72 on: September 24, 2017, 04:52:06 PM »
as long as it is not your max patch all is good.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #73 on: September 24, 2017, 09:58:01 PM »
hmm...
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Offline dr bu

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Re: delicate bending
« Reply #74 on: October 02, 2017, 09:47:55 PM »
...what would be the best setup for running Max do you think?  or which is yours?
knowledge is interesting