Author Topic: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear  (Read 3293 times)

Offline part12studios

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Hi there,

So I've put together a pretty exhaustive setup that is utilizing two networked MOTU MTP AV's and a MIDI Express XT in Freemidi (24 MIDI in / 24 MIDI out).  I'm running a G4 Sawtooth 450mhz machine..

Everything is working as it should and this is so freaking awesome..  I'm familiar with the basics of DP3.. but it's been about 15 years..  I have the manual which I'm going to go through today, but I wanted to see if there were some pros here that might know a quick fix i'm overlooking..

I have an Akai MKP25 which has a built in "hardware" arpeggiator..  and it listens to an external clock when it sends its notes back to the DAW..  I had this thing hooked up to my Amiga 1200 with Tiger cub and it worked great, yet this unit seems to not be responding..

I also have a Minibrute which does listen to Midi clock and i have tested it with a DR 5 and it slaves without any special configuration.. just knows to do it.. and it too seems to completely fail to get any kind of midi clock signal.. but in terms of routing midi to it through my devices it's working great..  and for added simplicity.. both the MiniBrute and MPK25 have dedicated IN/OUT on the MIDI Express TX so it's not like some other device in the midi chain could be failing to pass the clock value through..

Simply put it seems like the midi clock out isn't working..  I have FreeMIDI configured so that the respective devices "receive midi clock" and i've tried also added "receive MTC" on the off chance that matters and it doesn't seem too. 

So it seems like everything should "just work" but it's not and midi clock is something i'm looking to use heavily in certain situations so it's going to be a critical thing to figure out.

Thanks!
Caleb
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 10:12:29 AM by part12studios »

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2016, 01:14:06 PM »
u might want to try it with just one midi interface connected instead to confirm that it works in that configuration


and dont forget to change your oms studio config


Offline part12studios

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2016, 02:15:11 PM »
I did do a previous config that was just the two.. MTP AVs.. but it will be easy to test just the MIDI Express.  So I'll try that..

However what did you mean by "chage your OMS studio config"?   Do you mean i need to be sure to not just unplug the MTP AV's but also delete all of those instruments and have a new Freemidi configuration to use with the XT only setup?

Thanks,
Caleb

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2016, 04:34:47 PM »
i just meant that everytime u change your midi setup u have to re-run oms studio config + load or save a new setup document to explain where all the ins + outs are + where they go to. etc


but u probably know that already
i cant comment on freemidi setup as ive not really used it
but im guessing its the same as oms? or similar?

http://web.archive.org/web/19991129033050/http://motu.com/english/software/freemidi/fmdist.html

http://web.archive.org/web/19990909003223/http://www.motu.com/english/download/autodown/action.lasso?-database=dldb&-layout=main&-response=searchresults.html&-op=eq&product=FreeMIDI&&-maxRecords=all&-sortfield=description&-sortorder=ascending&-search

i cant find any info on freemidi setup.. what it even looks like.. or what to do.
there must be a pdf guide somewhere

http://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/document.1998-11-02.6220627643

heres a guide from sibelius dot com
http://www.sibelius.com/helpcenter/resources/oms_freemidi.pdf

Offline part12studios

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2016, 02:55:21 AM »
so i did disconnect the MTP AV and test with only the MIDI Express.. same problem.. no clock to speak of..   

ok so in my poking around (and i may still be missing something obvious) here is what I'm seeing.. using images because video tended to drag on waiting for things to appear





i just don't get it..  the 2nd screen.. i'm not sure what good settings i should use. i tried to follow it's advice and increase some stuff but that doesn't seem to be helpful.. you see that 2nd screen sometimes after it thinks for awhile when i click the option in the first screen "transmit sync"


so it just seems like maybe something isn't enabled.. i'm going to try the 3.11 patch I have here and see if that might help things some.. 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 07:43:43 AM by part12studios »

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2016, 10:54:45 AM »
yea definately apply the 3.11 patch!!!! motu is meticulous with documenting patches + press releases as far as i know if theres a reason why in the software then it should be documented..

if i were u i would continue to test different unit.. switch to the other MTPAV unit.. u said u had 3 right?
try all 3, it could be just the hardware.. or it could be a hardware/software combination, so u need to make sure that the problems happening with all 3 of them to determine if its a hardware or software or hard/soft problem

ive persoanlly never seen that message and ive also got an MTP AV

try the patch too tho - no harm in patching up to 3.11 and it may just solve the issue for all we know!

dp3 can handle up to 100+ tracks in mac os 9! so its not the cpu/software..

***also try a different serial cable if u can!!!

great to see people posting on the forum here about using Digital Performer!!!
i know alot of pro musicians that have used Digital performer for ages and im a big fan of their work!

Offline part12studios

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2016, 11:59:03 PM »
yea the 3.11 patch seemed to jack up my DP 3.02 because i started getting this error



I just need to blow this thing out of the water..  format and reinstall OS9.  I installed DP3 from an actual original DP 3 CD rom.. but i may just try the official DP3 image from this forum.

Whatever is causing the "Transmit Sync" to not pop up is almost certainly where the problem lies..  no idea why it doesn't appear.

Thanks!
Caleb

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2016, 07:09:43 AM »
caleb.. its a pretty simple error. u need to move 1 file to your extensions folder.


http://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/my-computer-does-not-see-my-motu-firewire-interface

do u even have a firewire audio interface? its looking for a pci-324 or pci-424 or 828 probably.. do u have either of those interfaces? if not u just need to reconfig the audio i/o?

Offline part12studios

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2016, 07:43:08 AM »
i have the 828 and it's connected via firewire so it seems like a MOTU firewire system would be right.  plus before the 3.11 patch was applied i never had the error. 

there is a firewire installer as part of the DP3 CD rom and running this (i would think) would put the files where they belong and it still doesn't see it..  i even drug the "828" driver file into the extensions folder as it says in the description and it still doesn't see it.  so that's why i'm like just format and reinstall because that worked perfectly last time :)

I just hit this crazy OS9 re-installation hang up which prevented me from being able to achieve that..

The way i'm used to thinking about an OS installation from scratch is like with Windows.. boot from a CD.. run the various disk utility tools to format drives.. tell the CD where I want the OS to go (what drive) and let it do it's thing. 

I have to go back to my history and see what the instructions were for the 9.2.2 OS9Lives image I have from Diehard that he shared awhile back when I was just getting started..   it went smooth back then but I forgot the specifics (because it was so effortless at the time) and then it say for a few months while I working on other studio assembly projects like auditing tons of old Akai S1000 CD roms I've had sitting for years in a CD case to save the best of those to Zip disks for my Peavy DPM SP and K2500R..  now that that was put to rest.. I turned my attention back to

Another project (maybe this is where i accidently messed something up in software) was me getting my two MOTU MTP AV's to network together so FreeMIDI sees them as a single 16 in / 16 out setup..  this took awhile because I had to hunt down a very particular type of serial cable with a particular crossover setup.. after a few cables were bought and tested I finally found one that worked for that (seriously.. best kept secret for massive MIDI IN/OUT ever)

Anyway so yea I've tried some things.. i really have..  i know i probably read like an idiot because of all of these problems but i've been trying lots of variations and experimenting..  but OS9 was never something i mastered.. even back in 2001 when I had this similar setup I never got deep as a true Mac power user..  I'm reasonably seasoned with OSX now (use the terminal now and then) but OS9 is simply a older beast.. just like going back to something like windows 98.. some advancements and conventions just didn't exist that far back.  i need to see if OS9 has a "show hidden extensions" type of option because that's something that messes with me too.. i have folders full of "files" that have names but no extension so i don't know what's what..

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2016, 07:45:28 AM »
os9 doesnt use file extensions the way windows does
it has that information in something called the resource fork
think of it like a secondary attached file that is invisible that the os uses to determine what the file is.. regardless of what u name it

Offline MacTron

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2016, 07:49:17 AM »
os9 doesnt use file extensions the way windows does
it has that information in something called the resource fork
think of it like a secondary attached file that is invisible that the os uses to determine what the file is.. regardless of what u name it
That's wrong. The file type and creator isn't related with resource forks at all, but with file attributes.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2016, 07:54:45 AM »
yes and from a new users perspective.. a resource fork + those file attributes are all invisible meta data that is attached to the file by the os and hidden to the general user.

why dont u explain to Caleb how it works then mactron?  ;D
in something thats actually informative + beneficial rather than simply attempting to shoot down what information ive offered as being incorrect.

Offline part12studios

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2016, 08:26:28 AM »
ah ok that makes some sense.. is there a way to make that file visible?  i guess my point is from a practical standoint (as a windows user) i know that if i see a file.. and it ends with .bin  i know what it is.. and yes some mac files totally have extensions and the OS knows what to do with them..

but when i see files with no extension or icon identifying them..  how would i go about knowing what's what?   if i see:

file1
file2
file3.zip

i know the zip is a zip.. but file 1 and 2 are completely generic.. they could be text files or imagines or anything? 

I appreciate the insight!  this is OS9 and older though right?  OSX from what i've experienced is like windows..  files are files with all data included right? 

Thanks,
Caleb

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2016, 08:33:18 AM »
u should be able to tell from viewing the files attributes
there should be other posts on file assocaitons + attributes
try reading this page
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1355.0

maybe some other user can point u in the direction of understanding file info/type/attributes/assocations

Offline part12studios

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2016, 08:36:32 AM »
cool thanks!  :)    really right now i just want to format the drive and reinstall OS9.2.2 from scratch..  that's my first objective..  another thread on another section on this forum should be getting me the info i need thankfully! 

If only that damn transfer sync window would popup.. none of this would have been needed..  ugh.. he

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2016, 08:42:05 AM »
if u have a sawtooth AGP mac then u can reinstall from any retail/universal os9 bootable install cd/image

but i gave u the ones that i have that are machine specific + shipped from apple with the 450 agp sawtooth... unlike the diehard instant DAW THEY ARE ALL BOOTABLE + INSTALLABLE once you burn them and actually use them - which is why is uggested u install them first and then try the instant DAW.


Offline MacTron

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2016, 08:46:15 AM »
why dont u explain to Caleb how it works then mactron?  ;D

OK, I'll try, my way:

Every Mac Os file have its file attributes. Some of them are shown with the "Get info" command. The attributes that define the kind of a file, are the "type" and "creator" info.
When the files come from an alien operating system ( as Windows, Linux or Mac Os X ) this info is missing. Depending on the way this files came to Macintosh enviroment ( Internet, CD/DVD ROMS or direct media copy ) , there is some procedures to automatically setup this info from the file extension. If this procedures fails you have a "unknow" file, and you have to find out  by your own means the extension of the file and manually setup the "type" and "creator" info.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline part12studios

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2016, 08:55:12 AM »
ah that would explain why i read somewhere to never copy files over from OSX to OS9 through finder.. like drag/drop.. Thanks for explaining that MacTron! :)

Yes about the images.. i'm just.. stuck with the burning of images right now.. 

I think I might try burning the .bin files with windows instead since i should have the software to do that there.. burn and liquidCD failed to properly mount the images for me.. they either didn't recognize them.. or imply put the "file" on the cd rom.. lol..  I have the imagines (thanks a ton!) so that's awesome.. I will give it a try tonight.

Thanks!
Caleb
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 10:33:37 AM by part12studios »

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2016, 10:11:51 AM »
to burn the .bin files i provided u must FIRST unstuff it with Stuffit Expander
in the same way you would use WINZIP to unzip a ZIP file..
the cd image is INSIDE the .bin (as a mac os 9 native file, it might not have a 3 letter .ext file extension, or it might be a .img inside the .bin when u unstuff/extract it... i forget what it is exactly)

the reason its in .bin format is to protect it while its being transported through "alien file systems" as mactron said.. so FIRST use STUFFIT EXPANDER to extract the file within the .bin files

Offline part12studios

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2016, 10:38:33 AM »
ah ok got it.  i did have unstuff it installed on my system.. but i can't boot up to it for whatever reason.. i might try a safe (no extensions) boot though.. that might clear the funk as it were.. 

that said i can burn these images with windows i would imagine without hassle.. i have a win7 laptop with a burner built in that should be able to do that without too much hassle. 

thanks for explaining the .bin thing.. that has always puzzled me over the years.. like..  ISO / BIN / CUE  why wouldn't everyone just pick one..  like zip..  asside from power users who might use something like 7 zip.. even mac just uses zip.. i know once it was more fragmented back in the day.. but anyway I digress.. good insight!   

I had trouble with that alien file system stuff when i was trying to get turbosynth on a Mac Classic i had.. i was able to get a cross-dos reader on the system so it could read MS DOS disks to transfer files from pc/mac to the system but it was jacking up the files in the process for that very reason..  never did quite get it to work on it..  ended up selling it off to a good home where it would be put to good use :)

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2016, 07:04:54 PM »
u probably can burn the images on a windows computer yes but u wuld have to download the windows version of stuffit expander and use it to expand the .bin files


Offline part12studios

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Re: Digital Performer 3 trouble with Midi Clock being sent to outboard gear
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2016, 04:26:20 AM »
ok so i have stuffit for OSX.. would that extract the bin file ok?

it appeared to work for me.. this is what the file looks like. . it has no extension..  taking it over to a PC to see what it makes of it. 

also found a windows stuffit expander as well.. so i'll try that approach