Author Topic: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!  (Read 14428 times)

Offline Front 424

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I hope that thread title sums it up.  :P :o :(

Long story not so short:

Years ago, I somehow found myself a copy of ProTools 3.4? (the original free version before 5.x) and got it mailed to me.  it was some promotional thing back in the late 90's i stumbled onto.
When the original PPC died (power supply?) i put that HD in external usb drive and transferred projects to a used G3 imac that appeared to have come from an elementary school, judging by the educational software installed.  Was using a Tascam US-122 usb interface. 
Decided to upgrade slightly, so i eventually got a Quicksilver 933 not too long ago. This site actually was a deciding factor in that.
After long consideration, i decided to purchase a used Digi 002.  Having wanted a mixer for sometime, and seeing how it was both a standalone as well firewire interface allowing PT LE 5.3.2 and all that entails (many more features), i figured I'd go for it.

What i did NOT count on, was quite the predicament and runaround that seems to have come about.

The QS 933 came with an OS X 10.4 formatted HDD.  I do believe it also had OS 9, at least Classic but maybe native boot?  I don't quite remember because i hardly used it except for backup.  I succeeded in installing the 40 gb drive from the older imac i had been using, and was booting off that no prob.  I kept the drive it came with, a 60 gb maxtor, and only booted it when i wanted to make a backup of my audio stuff, since the OS X drive wouldn't mount when I booted from the OS 9 disk, but it worked the other way around with 40 gb OS 9.2.2 drive would show up when booting with the OS 10.4 drive.

Just a note, the OS X 60gb drive would show up in system profiler when i booted off the OS 9 drive, and it would give its make and model, but say something like "Driver unavailable" and its status was unmounted.  Since i've never dealt with any dual drive stuff in mac before, i wasn't sure if it was a formatting issue or driver or what?    Didn't worry about it until the last few days.

Digi 002 arrived and I followed the manual and instructions that came with PT LE 5.3.2.  conflicting instructions in some ways!  Found out through some fine print that i needed Firewire Enabler/Support 2.8.6 instead of the 2.8.5 that was in my OS 9 system, but i wouldn't have known that just from reading the Digi 002 "getting started" guide.. found that bit of info elsewhere!!!  ???

Couldn't find any download resources for the Firewire 2.8.6 extensions, but the Universal OS 9.2.2 disc image on this site had the 2.8.7 ones, i found out.  I just copied those over as a replacement for my older ones and restarted, hoping it would work.  Digi 002 still did not show up or connect, and launching PT 5.3.2 gave me a hardware not found dialog.

After finally remembering i had that really old drive in the USB enclosure I decided i would just do a clean install of OS 9.2.2 off the Universal image from this forum.  I planned to be able to transfer some files directly from my other hard drives, but eventually, none of them will mount, show up as available, let alone boot.  What was working perfectly fine before this test dummy install, i now get the disk image with flashing "?" anytime i try to boot from the 40 gb OS 9 or 60 gb OS X drive, but the newly formatted 6gb OS 9 drive boots fine.  But last I checked, it no longer even sees the other drives at all, not even in profiler!

I've wondered if jumper pins are to blame, but when i had just the two drives before this debacle, didn't seem to make much of a difference.  Now it doesn't seem to make much of a difference either, since no combination seems to work!

Need to clarify that last time i did it, holding in Opt and getting the boot disk selector, the OS X disc shows up, but only as an OS 9 disc or Classic.. And it hangs with the flashing ? icon. I had mistakenly selected that option before and it will not return to OS X. 

I have no freakin clue what to do.  <-- There's a rhyme for you...

Didn't want to make a long post, but i wanted to give people enough info.  Hopefully there is enough there to work with initially?
this dilemma is ridiculous!  I haven't had the QS all that long, let alone dealt with multi-disk booting problems on a Mac, but it seems that in just a few days, formatting that really old 6gb Quantum Fireball has done me in. 

Still don't even know if the Digi 002 mixer works right.  It does in standalone so far as i can tell.  And the documentation never specified exactly what the "link" green LED between the 2 firewire ports on the back actually does.  Common sense says it tells you there is a connection through firewire, but the guides as far as i can tell never actually mention it other than showing it in a graphical illustration.  Neither is explained with the 1394 indicator on the front.  I assume the same?
And i had to go to digidesign archives to find the bit about 2.8.6 Firewire extensions!  Was the Digi 002 on OS 9.2 a rushed job???

Thanks for any help anyone can give me.  I know a bunch of you are more experienced at this than I, I hope you can assist.  I boggles my mind how I went in a few short days from a perfectly healthy working system to something that is barely there! 



Offline Front 424

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2016, 11:03:26 PM »
To clarify about drives used:
all are Maxtors:
6gb OS9.2.2
40gb OS 9.2.2
60gb OS 10.4.x?

40/60 were both in working condition until about 3 days ago, and now only give me flashing question mark in disk icon instead of happy mac.  the 6gb newly formatted one is the only one that boots up, and neither of the other two will mount and appear on the desktop.

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2016, 02:57:16 AM »
is your battery empty? almost everywhere is mentioned that can make your mac act really weird. faulty ram could be a problem. i had once a power supply going bad and the machine acted up. besides have you tried a image via drag and drop in osx? you can use a machine specific os9 version. the image is called "os9general"
i format the drives in X with os9 drivers selected and drag and drop the contents on the drive. if you need to test the 002 for operation you can install protools in X and check the mixers function in the mean time until we sorted out your problem with os9. the firewire light is on when connected to a machine (while both running) the moment you start protools it will take it out of stand alone mode unless you push that button and put it back into that mode. i also installed die hards instant daw and the mixer seems to work fine.

Offline Front 424

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2016, 03:00:28 PM »
Thanks for the reply!
I seem to remember discussing the 002 with you previously.. if i recall properly!
Unfortunately I must work until late, so can't really do anything right now. 

Would really appreciate any input from anyone else.  Please feel free to throw out ideas.  All I know is that I had everything in working order until I decided to format that other drive.  Now I can't boot into anything else.
Complicating matters.. only other Mac i have is a MacBook from 2006 with 10.4.8.  It is not easy dealing with stuffit files and mac disk images on PC's!

Must go for now.

Offline Front 424

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2016, 12:48:22 PM »
My only OS X machine currently able to boot is my MacBook.  Got the run around trying to install PT LE 6.4 featured on this site.  Let's just say, after unpacking the zip file, there was another one inside that, and when that extracted, the folder it created kept closing everytime i tried to open it.  It was delightful!
Needless to say, no success so far in that.  Does it not like Intel?  It probably would have told me though, I think, if I had actually been able to install and test it. 

But another question:  does the ProTools software need to be installed in order for the "LINK" LED to show a connection?  haven't seen it light up once.  If  it needs the software in os 10.4, fine, but i connected the cable to the MacBook and it didn't acknowledge any external device (002 was on as well).  Maybe the cable or the adapter attached to it is bad? 


Offline devils_advisor

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2016, 02:38:05 PM »
link is only established when protools takes over. for that you need panther aka osx 10.3 running. i tried protools in osx 10.5 but i never got the 002 running, problem i got stuck with was the mixer was not recognized at all (unknown device in profiler)

Offline geforceg4

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2016, 05:32:52 PM »
sorry i didnt read the entire thread..
are u looking to use the digi 002 with mac os 9? or with mac os x?

Offline Front 424

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2016, 02:57:27 PM »
link is only established when protools takes over. for that you need panther aka osx 10.3 running. i tried protools in osx 10.5 but i never got the 002 running, problem i got stuck with was the mixer was not recognized at all (unknown device in profiler)

So unless software is properly installed, no indication of connection at all? Some devices do but don't function, others don't until every last driver is just so.

sorry i didnt read the entire thread..
are u looking to use the digi 002 with mac os 9? or with mac os x?


right now i'm trying to just get it working, but i'm not that lucky at the moment.  i don't care which OS i can use at this point..

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2016, 03:15:28 PM »
there is a standalone driver available for osx but again i never got it running. so i use panther and os9 for 002. look in the manual, for osx i think i saw some information about the 002 beeing used with propellerhead and some other daws but you use the motorized faders and other functions. pretty much like stand alone mode. they made the controller part a big secret at the time so nobody can use it. with the 003 they managed to built a switch to mackie mode so other daws can use the mixer.

Offline geforceg4

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2016, 04:25:50 PM »
sorry i didnt read the entire thread..
are u looking to use the digi 002 with mac os 9? or with mac os x?
right now i'm trying to just get it working, but i'm not that lucky at the moment.  i don't care which OS i can use at this point..

to use the digi 002 with mac os 9 is a bit more complicated as it requires specific versions of drivers + programs (especially if you are aiming to use it with pro tools on mac os 9!)
the easiest to set up would be to use it with tiger or leopard on mac os x i think because any version will support it probably.. pro tools 6 + up to i think 8 or even version 9 or 10 should work (i think?)

if u want to make it work with mac os 9 u need to use pro tools LE v5.3.2 which is available for download here on the macos9lives site.. and u will need to read alot of requirements documents from digidesign + put some detective work in.

click here to get started -> http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2474.0.html but like i said u will have to do some reading + searching on the requirements of using digi 002 with mac os 9 - there are alot of intracacies + details that need to be set just right etc

and here a google search to start u off:
https://www.google.ca/search?num=30&espv=2&q=%22pro+tools+le+5.3.2%22+digi002+requirements&oq=%22pro+tools+le+5.3.2%22+digi002+requirements&gs_l=serp.3..30i10k1.1686.6187.0.6500.3.3.0.0.0.0.92.269.3.3.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.3.267.830RmKdrBdw

make sure to read this page: http://archive.digidesign.com/compato/os9/002/

u must be running mac os 9.2.2 fully updated to the last version to use it
u also need to update your firewire extensions to v2.5 https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/3312/apple-firewire-updater

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2016, 04:59:14 AM »
sorry i didnt read the entire thread..
are u looking to use the digi 002 with mac os 9? or with mac os x?
right now i'm trying to just get it working, but i'm not that lucky at the moment.  i don't care which OS i can use at this point..

to use the digi 002 with mac os 9 is a bit more complicated as it requires specific versions of drivers + programs (especially if you are aiming to use it with pro tools on mac os 9!)
the easiest to set up would be to use it with tiger or leopard on mac os x i think because any version will support it probably.. pro tools 6 + up to i think 8 or even version 9 or 10 should work (i think?)

if u want to make it work with mac os 9 u need to use pro tools LE v5.3.2 which is available for download here on the macos9lives site.. and u will need to read alot of requirements documents from digidesign + put some detective work in.

click here to get started -> http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2474.0.html but like i said u will have to do some reading + searching on the requirements of using digi 002 with mac os 9 - there are alot of intracacies + details that need to be set just right etc

and here a google search to start u off:
https://www.google.ca/search?num=30&espv=2&q=%22pro+tools+le+5.3.2%22+digi002+requirements&oq=%22pro+tools+le+5.3.2%22+digi002+requirements&gs_l=serp.3..30i10k1.1686.6187.0.6500.3.3.0.0.0.0.92.269.3.3.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.3.267.830RmKdrBdw

make sure to read this page: http://archive.digidesign.com/compato/os9/002/

u must be running mac os 9.2.2 fully updated to the last version to use it
u also need to update your firewire extensions to v2.5 https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/3312/apple-firewire-updater

thats where you are wrong. i thought so too until i got one. i had a drag and drop install of os9 first on a quicksilver and it worked fine. the installer from the protools cd takes care of driver and stuff. the digi init file is a special version if you wanna call it that. the protools version is pretty much the last one for os9 to run without tdm or other hardware.... 5.3.2 LE .....   i never had to update anything in os9. what happens on my end is everytime i start protools in os9 is that protools wants to update my 002 firmware which i refused so far and had no issues running. as far as i know there arent any driver needed except the digi init version that comes with the cd. all the other daws use the mixer in stand alone mode anyway. for osx is best if you stay with panther and protools 6 le i never got the 002 running on anything higher. the 002 was not recognized in profiler at all (possible because of the firmware). believe me there is no extensive research needed.

Offline Front 424

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2016, 09:20:28 PM »
I am beset by all fantastic creatures of the deep on this one.

The one remaining drive I can boot from will not accept any copies of files or programs.  I started with 2 working boot drives in this G4 Quicksilver 933.  I formatted a third much older one (OS 9.2.2 Universal from this site), and after booting from that, the older OS 9 drive would not boot.  Then, shortly thereafter, with a little help from my curiosity, the OS X drive will not boot. 

Part of my problem was no utilities/programs on the newly formatted drive like stuffit and Toast.
Managed to burn a disc finally using my MacBook.  Funny thing about that.  The disc drive in that one is shot, but I have an external USB DVD drive.  Worked in read mode, but when it came time to writing, i got an "insufficient power" message trying to burn the ProTools LE 5.3.2 image.  Next day  I remembered that I had a dual USB port cable for extra power to a single device. Managed to burn the Toast image.

Tried to install on the one working OS 9 G4 boot drive.  Kept getting disc errors.  Thought maybe it was the actual CD that was bad.  That's what it appeared to be anyway.

So I had already put the older previously working/booting OS 9 drive into the USB enclosure that I had used, and tried to transfer Toast to the G4 just to see if I could make it work.  Very early in the transfer I got another disk error..  Tried to transfer another individual file.  That too gave me a disk error.  Ran the Disk First Aid utility on both of them.  Both showed no errors. 

I know there are more advanced programs for doing that, so maybe it is a physical defect.  The only drive that's booting now is a 6GB Maxtor from an old PPC.  And it will not accept more than a small file transfer..  :(

I'm starting to believe this 002 is cursed!  :o Everything was working fine till i tried to get it running, now everything has gone to hell! In fact, it has been nothing but one obstacle after another. everytime i think i can do a different approach, i am blocked.

At my wits end.

Help?   :-\






Offline Front 424

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2016, 09:41:54 PM »
I will add, as per devils_advisor's advice, i might look into a new battery for it.  I will have to research that aspect.

is your battery empty? almost everywhere is mentioned that can make your mac act really weird. faulty ram could be a problem. i had once a power supply going bad and the machine acted up.

Any of those could be an issue.  I just know that I had no problems until i tried to get the 002 working.

Offline geforceg4

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2016, 10:40:59 PM »
front 242:
ill say this once and after i do.. maybe it will make COMPLETE SENSE To you..maybe it wont but..
here goes..
***stop working with crap hard drives***
the drives u are using are past their prime probably 20 year old hard drive technology.. the main reason why alot of computers have better performacne isnt just CPU advancements its also due to BETTER HARD DRIVES which work faster + better + are still for the most part backward compatible! so how do u take a 16 year old mac and make it great? use a NEW "made in 2016" hard drive (sata with some type of SATA to IDE adapter) or an IDE-compatible SSD... (compact flash or SD to IDE via adapter)
just do yourself a huge favor and take out  all the vintage crap old hard drives
they are NOT helping you one bit.

use 1 good drive + thats it..
dont make things complicated by trying to add 3 different hard drives
at least untill u regain some sense of stability.

and whats this about a USB DVD writer???
u shouldnt need to use a USB dvd writer.. ??
 the QS 933 comes with a CD BURNER installed called a Superdrive.

quicksilver 933 are FANTASTIC G4's to use for audio production.
did u even READ what i wrote before?
did u UPDATE YOUR FIREWIRE EXTENSIONS? like i posted above?

Offline geforceg4

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2016, 10:25:32 AM »
6gb OS9.2.2[/size]40gb OS 9.2.260gb OS 10.4.x?


if the drives u are using are this size its safe to say they are from back  when the quicksilver was first made (ie circa 2002) and they are IDE old hard drives most likely..
so pitch them in the trash.. and get a new 80gb drive.. or some type of IDE compatible SSD or use a sata drive with sata-ide adapter of some sort... anyway to be using a new hard drive.. hard drives are so cheap now its not worth messing around with an old beat up dumpster dive drive. its not worth the headache.

Offline Front 424

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2016, 01:59:28 AM »
front 242:

quicksilver 933 are FANTASTIC G4's to use for audio production.
did u even READ what i wrote before?
did u UPDATE YOUR FIREWIRE EXTENSIONS? like i posted above?

Did YOU read what I wrote?  :P
Remember?!?
sorry i didnt read the entire thread..
are u looking to use the digi 002 with mac os 9? or with mac os x?

I talked about the extensions already in my first post.  Copied the last versions (2.8.7, needed at least 2.8.6) to my 40gb 9.2.2 drive, but that did not help.  ProTools continued giving me a "hardware not found" message.
 I figured maybe it needed other files updated, but I wasn't about to format and erase over my 2 working drives with all my files and backup.
 That's when I remembered the old 6gb drive. It was not meant to be permanent, but it was all i had on hand, and i really want to know if the 002 doesn't have some physical defect with its Firewire interface, that's why I used it to install the os 9 Universal disc.  Figured a perfectly clean install with all the last extension updates would work.
But I think that HDD is faulty.. cant even install protools or anything on it.

As far as old drives go, yeah, I've been wanting an SSD for a while, but I couldn't just conjure one up immediately, and I needed something right away.  SSD is one thing, but a G4 compatible PCI adapter is probably not something I can just pick up at BestBuy.  It would probably take me a few days just to determine what I need and order it, and another several days to receive.   
We do have a Mac store or two.  I've thought maybe they have some old used stuff laying around, but I think they deal pretty exclusively in Intel-macs.

I just can't understand why everything has gone to sh** so quickly and gotten so damn complicated!

At least you mistakenly addressed me as "Front 242" instead of 424! ;D
Or not a mistake?  :o ;)

Offline geforceg4

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2016, 08:03:13 AM »
trust me i have no intention of being rude to u or anyone else here........
im only trying to help by sharing my own insights having been ins imiliar situations
and predicaments.. ie: using 3 different old drives.... with tons of "unexplained wierdness" happening on a g4 mac.. been there done that...

re: front 242 isnt that what u took your name from?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_242

Offline Front 424

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2016, 05:36:55 PM »

re: front 242 isnt that what u took your name from?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_242

Obviously you must be familiar with them.  I think their debut album is simply fantastic.  8)

Offline Front 424

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2016, 05:59:47 PM »

Well, another fresh install on the 60 g drive that was OS X, but really didn't get used.  It is now the MacOS9 Universal .  ProTools is installed properly.  Still get hardware not found message on startup. :(
devil's_advisor seemed to indicate that with the 002 connected and turned on, it should automatically be detected and activated.  Not a peep out of it!  I have no way of telling if the hardware itself is shot or not, or if the 6pin-9pin adapter that came with the cable is faulty.. I don't have any other firewire devices to test whether the cable is bad, the computer interface, or the 002.
any stories of these things failing?  It was assured by the ebay seller that it worked.

Offline Front 424

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Re: OS 9.2.2/OS X HD flashing "?" + QS 933 + Digi 002 confusion and nonsense!
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2016, 06:11:24 PM »
Finally!
Some progress.. Figured out it WAS indeed the 6-9 pin adapter the cable came with.  Got around to testing that cable/adapter combo with a firewire hd (had to "borrow" someone else's) and it was not connecting to the computer  Bought a new bonified 6-6 cable and it is now recognized. 

Now my problem is what exactly is the authorization code?  There was nothing mentioned that I recall in any of the ProTools download pages.  I am referring to 5.3.2 for OS 9 and 6.2.3 for OS X.  I am currently only trying the OS X version.
Curiously the 5.3.2 download has "..." for auth. code. 


EDIT
I also got an alert about problems communicating with the 002 faders, and it recommended something about power cycling.  Then I got a message telling me that the 002's firmware was v1.21 while the system's was 1.20.
devils_advisor had similar issue regarding firmware.

I'm stuck at pesky authorization now.  Lotsa fun.  Maybe gonna try booting OS 9 and try that one, and hopefully i don't get stuck with flashing boot drive icons again!