how to tell if your hard drive is failing + needs to be replaced

[geforceg4]

theres been two posts related to this lately..
one by lordgiffnock whos trying to install logic 2.5 on a performa 6360
and another by cliff os923 who was talking about -110 error + garyn suggested to replace drive

isnt there a diagnostic tool?
for checking to see if the hard drive is failing?
that shipped with the macs themselves? tech tool? i forget what its called

[GaryN]

There are S.M.A.R.T. monitor apps and lots of disk testing apps these days, but of course no good ones from the Classic OS era. On a dual-boot G4, one could probably run a competent test in OSX and re-initialize the HDD back to OS9. I suggested a quick swap because I know -110 is NOT common so it begged a couple of basic troubleshooting protocols but honestly…

The more I / we get to know 923 the more certain I am that he's doing something (don't know exactly what, but something) that's just plain out-of-bounds to the Finder and it's complaining.

[geforceg4]

personally i dont take any chances.. and if i score a second hand machine the first thing i do is trash the drive + put in a fresh one to eliminate any bullshit problems or slowness

alot of other users may not have this technical expertise or knowledge to know that this is a step that should be taken

i was just wondering if theres a telltale test to suggest for users like that!

[Mat]

Usually concerning the filesystem, DiskWarrior is the best you can get. It is not exactly what you are searching (or is it, as you had TechTool in mind?), but if that  software is failing you got a hardware issue.

The latest Version 2.1.1 is the best and solved every problem for me. So when DiskWarrior cannot help anymore, and problems occure after reformatting the complete disk again, it should be replaced.

It can still be purchased from Alsoft:
http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/supportdw21.html

[geforceg4]

It can still be purchased from Alsoft:
http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/supportdw21.html

yes but surely that version of the software is aimed at mac os x users?
http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/requirements.html

DiskWarrior now ships on a bootable flash drive instead of DVD. If you plan to rebuild the directory of your startup (built-in) disk, you need to start up from another disk capable of starting up in OS X 10.5.8 through 10.11, such as the DiskWarrior Recovery flash drive or your Mac's OS X Recovery (the Recovery HD). OS X Recovery is available in OS X 10.7 (Lion) and later.

ok wait.. i see.. so are they are selling 2.1 for the same price as the osx product?

i personally have never used diskwarrior except that one time that someone suggested i try it due to btree errors but it didnt end well.
and it didnt help, i still had to wipe the drive + begin anew.

anyways i was just trying to give lordGiffnock some way of testing his drive on his performa 6360 with system 7.
diskwarrior 2.1 seems like it would work on system 7.6.1 ? right?

is there another option that doesnt require reaching for the wallet? considering its just a test before having to pay for a new hard drive..

[Mat]

Read to the end of the page you linked to!

The 2nd last paragraph:

"Requirements for Older Macs
If you have older PowerPC-based Macs that are not capable of running OS X, DiskWarrior 2.1 is still available for purchase directly from Alsoft. Please contact our Technical Support Department to order."

[GaryN]

Once again people are simultaneously talking about different things without realizing it.

DiskWarrior, et al… will diagnose and reveal volume problems - not hardware problems.

Big difference! DW diagnoses and attempts to fix DATA corruption and such on the drive. It will not tell you if the HDD is about to melt down from a bearing failure or such. Those things require sensors that are built into modern drives that report S.M.A.R.T. data. It will respond to bad sectors that can no longer be written to or read from reliably although the info it gives you regarding that kind of stuff is pretty vague and all you can do is swap out the HD anyway just to be safe.

To go back again and endlessly repeat my original point, when you're using "ancient" hardware that's no longer "supported",

It is absolutely vital for you to have spares of failure-prone items on hand - both for diagnostics and for repair / replacement.

[geforceg4]

The 2nd last paragraph:

"Requirements for Older Macs
If you have older PowerPC-based Macs that are not capable of running OS X, DiskWarrior 2.1 is still available for purchase directly from Alsoft. Please contact our Technical Support Department to order."

i wonder what the price is though.. its pretty criminal if they charge the modern price the same as 10.11

[geforceg4]

Once again people are simultaneously talking about different things without realizing it.
DiskWarrior, et al… will diagnose and reveal volume problems - not hardware problems.
Big difference!

nice catch there.

[DieHard]

As stated in Many posts...

1) Backup

2) Run the manufactures hardware test on a Windows PC (Mosts SATA tests work on IDE/PATA use and adapter),
the Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostics works on ALL brands and ALL styles, simply hook the drive up as a secondary and NOT the main drive (obviously a mac OS 9 drive will not boot anyway)

Lastly, don't expect to "see" the drive on the windows PC (it is formated HFS+), but the diagnostic will see the mac drive and you can test it, THIS IS A HARDWARE LEVEL TEST, IT IS NON-DESTRUCTIVE AND WILL NOT CHECK THE FILE STRUCTURE

Last Note: check can take 3 to 4 hours depending on size of the drive

[Mat]

Once again people are simultaneously talking about different things without realizing it.

GaryN; perhaps we are facing a communication problem, but it I for myselve know exactly what I am talking about. At least in this case.

DiskWarrior, et al… will diagnose and reveal volume problems - not hardware problems.

Perhaps you didn´t read my posting completely, but your statement is exactly what I said. Let me cite myselve:

concerning the filesystem, DiskWarrior is the best you can get. It is not exactly what you are searching, but ...

So I wanted to offer a quick and usable solution to geforceg4, so that he can guess if he has a hardware or software issue. On the other hand, I do not understand why you talk about SMART and such stuff, when geforceg4 is talking about a Performa, ... ?
Of course real hardware tests can be done with external computers like DieHard suggests, but this is also not what geforceg4 asked for, as he wrote "with the macs themselves".

So please read carefully, and don´t blame others for things that are simply not true.

[DieHard]

I was just "adding" information for future readers; I was not commenting on the conversation; and let's all remember that we don't have to always be in agreement

That is the "fun" of the forum, some opinion, some fact, and let others research for their own needs.  You guys are ALL awesome, every member should realize that there are many languages here, that get translated to English and also realize that text does not always accurately convey an emotion; so with that said, we should all try to pick words carefully, try not to sound "condescending" and respect each other, always....

I kind a love you guys     hmmm, that sounded a little weird, so I better go get a massage with a happy ending... anyway, let's all have fun with this and not develop a need to "be right" let's just share info

Lastly, a great utility, in the OS X world, that is the closest to a physical hard drive test is "Drive Genius"  I think the Apple techs themselves use it, we also use it here at the store

[geforceg4]

feel the brotherly mac love

[ziggy29]

i wonder what the price is though.. its pretty criminal if they charge the modern price the same as 10.11

I also wonder if they would cut a break for folks who are already registered for a more recent version of the product.  It would feel really punitive if they didn't.

[OS923]

personally i dont take any chances.. and if i score a second hand machine the first thing i do is trash the drive + put in a fresh one to eliminate any bullshit problems or slowness

That's bad advice.
An old working HD has proven that it has been in good condition for a long time.
This means that it will be OK for many years to come.
I had over 20 computers in 30 years.
2 of those were new.
I had only 2 bad HD's: one that I smashed a door against, and one that I bought in a second hand store but this appeared to be one with a serious construction flaw that had been recalled by the factory.
Replace them only if they can't be formatted.
I throw them away if I find them too small, even if they are in perfect condition.

[OS923]

I checked my drives with Norton Utilities on Mac and Windows. They always say: no bad sectors. But then I tried Victoria 4.3 which can find slow sectors. Slow sectors are not marked as bad, but slow your computer down. If you lock them out, then you can get a speed boost.

Now I'm trying different programs.

[OS923]

Norton Utilities found no problems on my Mobile Drive XXS, but Victoria says 1 bad sector and 34 slow sectors in the first 18% of the disk. Then I reformatted it leaving the first 20% unformatted. I use it like this until I find a way to remap slow sectors. They say that Victoria can do this, but it has a strange interface and only a short introduction in Russian.

[OS923]

I did a low level format with HDD LLF Low Level Format Tool 4.40.
Then I started to use Turbo USB 2.0.
Now it reads at 34 MB/s instead of 27 MB/s.

[geforceg4]

That's bad advice.
An old working HD has proven that it has been in good condition for a long time.
This means that it will be OK for many years to come.
I had over 20 computers in 30 years.
2 of those were new.

hey its ok for you to disagree.. i would also have disagreed with myself 6 years ago
but now i realize when i can buy new 80gb mechanical seagate or WD drives for 20-25$ a piece its worth it to get a new drive rather then to fart around with some 10-12 year old drive i scored with an old computer..  because id rather spend my time DOING things, CREATING things, being creative.. + actually using the software rather then spending my entire life being my own tech support department.

[OS923]

Since I stick to OS 9 and XP I rarely have to update my software and that saves me more time than what I lose with tech support.