Author Topic: Cubase TDM 4.1  (Read 17397 times)


macStuff

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2019, 10:44:22 PM »
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php?topic=555.0
theres this article i have posted on my site about CUBASE DAE from 1994

http://web.archive.org/web/20111225041946/http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_articles/dec94/cubasedae.html
so perhaps thats why you couldnt find more info on "cubase TDM" because it was usually referred to as "cubase DAE" ??

didnt the Cubase Audio XT version support TDM hardware?

im pretty sure what this guy was looking for is included with Cubase VST 4.1 cd; but u install different drivers or something

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2019, 10:32:51 PM »
http://web.archive.org/web/19990427071737/http://www.steinberg.net/news/index.html
if u visit here read the bottom of the page:

Quote
Cubase VST, the world's favourite professional music production software now teams up with the world's leading digital audio hardware. Jointly developed by engineers from Steinberg and Digidesign, an ASIO driver for Pro Tools 24, Pro Tools Project II, Pro Tools III PCI and AudioMedia III (Mac) is now available free of charge from this web site!

Many users have asked for Cubase VST to interface with Pro Tools, and this is now a reality. The combination of Cubase VST/24 and Pro Tools 24 offers the discerning user the best of both worlds, with a complete 24-bit path of recording and editing.

http://web.archive.org/web/19990427071737/ftp://ftp.steinberg.de/dist/product_updates/macintosh/asio/ASIO_Digidesign.hqx
maybe that is all they were talking about?

Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2022, 10:10:15 PM »
so there is no cubase TDM its simply called Cubase Audio

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/cubase-audio-dae

and i will find out how to activate DAE if i have to ask charly personally
« Last Edit: September 10, 2022, 02:46:40 AM by smilesdavis »
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline IIO

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2022, 06:07:30 AM »
"cubase audio" is just what the name says.
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Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2022, 06:47:06 AM »
so anyone know anything which version enables cubase 4.1 dae?
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline IIO

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2022, 07:01:43 AM »
i believe the regular cubase audio 3.0 for macintosh should already have had it.

soundmanager were too slow and would have made the recording options worse than on the atari falcon before, so they have chosen to support digidesign hardware at that point. it was a perfect couple since protools did not have MIDI at all, and there were not so many good audio interfaces for the mac.

the confusion with "cubase TDM", which never came out, comes because cubase audio (with DAE support) of course supports mix cards, which means that it makes use of digis TDM bus structure for IO, but this has nothing to do with the TDM plug-ins.

when "cubase TDM" (see image in the start post) was finally ready to go - and shown on the musikmesse and NAMM - steinberg (and the AMIII) had ASIO already and so they decided to cancel DAE support. at this point the further support for a foreign plug-in platform stopped making sense.

(dont ask me why 3 months later they started this yamaha DSP factory nonsense...)

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Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2022, 11:46:14 AM »
same with logic. both cubase and logic were midi only because pcs and macs were too slow for audio. without the horrible pt 3 tdm hardware setup multitracking wasnt even an option. scsi hdd on every card ugh. cubase dae. logic dae. all lived side by side. i guess cubase tdm never was released because charly hates paying loyalties. and digi closed their platform once and for all.

still sending audio from a pro tools session into cubase for processing with vsts and back is nice.

the weird thing is wikipedia mentions a 3.0 tdm. no foto.

no mention of a 4.1 TDM version on their website.

whoa at the very bottom it DOES!

« Last Edit: September 10, 2022, 05:06:51 PM by smilesdavis »
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2022, 05:07:54 PM »
so what we are looking for are a simple free asio driver

ftp://ftp.steinberg.de/dist/product_updates/macintosh/asio/ASIO_Digidesign.hqx

"CUBASE VST/24 4.0 NOW WORKS WITH PRO TOOLS 24"

this does not appear to be the same as the

ftp://ftp.steinberg.net/Archives/MAC/Hardware/Drivers/

or os it this one from archive.org?
ftp.steinberg.net/Archives/Hardware/ASIO_Digidesign_DirectIO/Mac/OS_9/ASIO_DigiDesign_DirectIO5.sit.hqx

- the asio driver is on archive.org
- cubase vst/24 4.0 is on repository

someone with one of the above digidesign hardware able to test this? (sadly i only got pt iii nubus and mixplus - too old too new)

last version overview contradicts the steinberg site that 4.1 introduced TDM support in 1999, a year later than 4.0
« Last Edit: September 10, 2022, 07:09:45 PM by smilesdavis »
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline DieHard

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2022, 07:23:15 PM »
Quote
so what we are looking for are a simple free asio driver

Nope... totally different discussion... let's not confuse the thread in case this is for reference.

The Cubase TDM discussion is NOT about ASIO drivers at all. ASIO drivers DO NOT utilize and cannot access the on-board processing (DSP) of expensive Pro Tools PCI cards that support many plugin chains without taxing the computer's CPU.
 
Your picture shows the "Cubase VST 4" CD and auth disk.  There is NO Cubase Audio (with a Steinberg DAE Digidesign Audio Engine) on that CD.  It is the VST version

CuBase VST 4 CD contained 2 products...
1) Cubase 4 VST/24 (24 bit max bit depth audio recording)
2) Cubase 4 score (music notation capable)

CuBase VST 5 CDs contained 3 products...
1) Cubase 5 VST/24 (24 bit max bit depth audio recording)
2) Cubase 5 VST/32 (32 Bit or "floating Point" or "True tape" max bit depth audio recording)
3) Cubase 5 score (music notation capable)

All Cubase VST 4 and 5 versions accepted audio interface drivers made to the ASIO 1 and ASIO 2 specifications.
The ASIO programming parameters were developed by Steinberg and each audio interface hardware manufacturer would write an "ASIO" driver for their interface.

The whole reason of using using an ASIO driver and not using a Windows system driver or Mac extension was the ability of the driver to operate at a much lower level, having direct access to the hardware (without the operation system API), and thus greatly reducing latency inherent in recording MIDI and audio.  It was quite a break thru at the time... DieHard's interpretation

So, if you had a Digi001 or 002 and you were into Trance music, you may have relied heavily on sequencing and MIDI, so you chose to Use CuBase VST (NOT ProTools LE), and use the ASIO driver.  Many of the Big dogs, with Pro Tools Core/Mix/Farm cards had seriously large studios with 32 channels or more going into a large analog console that would use Pro Tools as a 24-Track tape machine and outboard gear; they would not need an ASIO driver at all, the ASIO driver was intended for the project/Home studio market.

OK, let's get to the point already... Cubase VST and the audio plugins were "Native" and ate up the CPU processing power like candy.  The VST (Virtual Studio Technology) acronym meant you don't have the money or the room for the "real" studio, so you can have a virtual one. Yes, if you had a Pro Tools LE system the same could be said about the LE version of Pro Tools.  But what it you had an expensive Pro Tools system with Core cards and Farm cards that had their own processors right on the card, then running CuBase VST in it's "Native" mode sucked ass, so...

So here is were the elusive Cubase Audio (or TDM or non-VST) version comes in... Get all the great features with automation, MIDI transforms, and MIDI sequencing  and still use your expensive DSP Pro Tools cards and Mix interfaces.  This very special version of Cubase would give you all the functionality of the Cubase interface with the ability to load TDM plugins.  These plugins would run in real time and put almost no strain on the computer's CPU at all !  These little golden insert "slots" on your virtual mixer can load TDM plugins and not crash your project.  Lush reverbs, cool delays, compressors, EQs, can load in the "special" version of Cubase and use up almost no CPU real estate, so you can put the CPU to things like automation, meters, etc.

In the end, Steinberg focused exclusively on the VST product and stopped development on the DAE engine.  Their VST audio engine would become the standard for home/project studios that were on a limited budget where the computer was the biggest purchase. It made sense to go forward and market the masses, and it worked.  Besides, why put money into a TDM product for guys that are going to most likely just use the DAW that shipped with the expensive hardware (Pro Tools).

I am sure Digidesign was bummed when Steinberg dropped Cubase TDM; Digi would have surely benefited from hardware sales of more expensive Cards supported TDM plugins if Steinberg carried the DAE torch... instead, many like myself chose a "hybrid" environment, use Cubase VST as the center and utilize hardware DSP on UAD-1 Cards and PCI PowerCore cards; this filled a market need and was the true VST nightmare for those at Digidesign.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2022, 08:05:12 PM by DieHard »

Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2022, 07:51:43 PM »
https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/cubase-vst-of-g4-ibook-imac-dv-g3bronze-keyboard/

Cubase 4.1 has the worst PACE of all time

until someone shows me a picture of 4.1 tdm i believe its 4.1 dae which means what steinberg wrote. cubase 4 like logic 4 side by side on the same rig as pro tools 24 but using either vst or a dae driver. i call myth.
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline DieHard

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2022, 08:09:21 PM »
until someone shows me a picture of 4.1 tdm i believe its 4.1 dae which means what steinberg wrote. cubase 4 like logic 4 side by side on the same rig as pro tools 24 but using either vst or a dae driver. i call myth.

Dear smiles, the screenshot in the first post is not photo-shopped, there is clearly a window called "TDM Mixer" showing the available TDM slots, this window does NOT exist in CuBase VST ! Using a different driver as you suggest, does not alter the available windows in the Host DAW.

You are totally right about Version 4 being a myth (if that's what you mean)...

Apparently, 1996 is the last year that saw a Cubase front-end GUI with a CuBase DAE Audio combined in an official product.

From Wikipedia (Cubase Audio 3.0 TDM for Macintosh 1996)
Quote
Cubase Audio 3.0 TDM had up to 16 Audio Tracks with TDM Support for up to 48 Physical Audio Tracks. Cubase Audio 3.0 TDM contained all the new features of Cubase Score 2.0. It also had OMS II Support and MovieManager Support.

According to all available sources... the "Audio" versions were unique custom products...

1) 1991... Cubase Audio also called Cubase DAE: Macintosh, this version relied on the TDM system from Digidesign for the audio portion. it was based on NuBus hardware. To make use of the audio features of Cubase Audio you will need either an AudioMedia NuBus card, a Sound Tools system, or a Pro Tools system. The Sound Tools and Pro Tools systems both feature a NuBus card and a 19‑inch rackmounted audio interface.

2) 1993... Cubase Audio: Release on Atari Falcon 030; this version brings digital signal processor (DSP) built-in effects with 8-track audio recording and playback using only native hardware. Later versions enable 16-track mode using audio compression.

3) 1996... Cubase Audio 3.0 TDM for Macintosh: Cubase Audio 3.0 TDM had up to 16 Audio Tracks with TDM Support for up to 48 Physical Audio Tracks. Cubase Audio 3.0 TDM contained all the new features of Cubase Score 2.0. It also had OMS II Support and MovieManager Support. compression.

4) 1996... Cubase Audio XT 3.0 (PC & Mac): This release provides extended hardware support not featured in other versions of cubase. Hardware options included the Digidesign Session 8 & AudioMedia III PCI, Yamaha CBXD3 & CBXD5, Akai DR8 & DR16, & the Creamware Master port. Recording multiple tracks at once was possible.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2022, 11:03:08 PM by DieHard »

Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2022, 08:16:43 PM »
ok enough guessing around ill call steinberg on monday
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline IIO

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2022, 10:18:18 PM »
i´ve seen cubase TDM at steinberg so i can assure you that it exist - and i have never seen it floating around in the warez scene so i can with 99,9% certainty assure you that noone could ever buy it. :)
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Offline IIO

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2022, 10:22:11 PM »
the weird thing is wikipedia mentions a 3.0 tdm. no foto.

yeah that is because of te nomenclatura "TDM". time division multiplexing originally descibed the bus architecture and not the plug-ins.

"digidesign direct IO" is the opposite...
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Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2022, 12:47:56 AM »
ok so now that makes sense. i read up on the blog of a steinberg founding guy, nuendo was always designed as a pro tools competitor and in 1999 there was a meeting at steinberg that resulted in tons of internal changes. discontinuing the partnership with the market opponent avid was one of them...
« Last Edit: September 12, 2022, 07:03:12 PM by smilesdavis »
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2022, 07:56:30 AM »
"Cubase Audio XT for DAE/TDM"
Cubase Audio Mac
1995

Cubase VST24 4.1 Macintosh


Cubase V4.1 — Mac
1999

Macintosh only. Downloadable as a free upgrade to owners of VST24 4.0. Introduced VST 2.0, ASIO 2.0, DSP Factory support, TDM support and more. In addition, the Cubase VST/24 Mixer/EQ section included an extension with 5 new real-time processing modules — Compressor, Limiter, Auto Gate, Auto Limit and Soft Clip. A number of VST elements could also now be controlled remotely via external devices such as the Yamaha 01-V.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 08:33:22 AM by smilesdavis »
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline DieHard

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2022, 09:58:10 AM »
Quote
Cubase V4.1 — Mac
1999

Macintosh only. Downloadable as a free upgrade to owners of VST24 4.0. Introduced VST 2.0, ASIO 2.0, DSP Factory support, TDM support and more. In addition, the Cubase VST/24 Mixer/EQ section included an extension with 5 new real-time processing modules — Compressor, Limiter, Auto Gate, Auto Limit and Soft Clip. A number of VST elements could also now be controlled remotely via external devices such as the Yamaha 01-V

Hey smiles, awesome research, but I can't let this go because many use this stuff as reference... I gotta clear up the confusion, CuBase 4.1 NEVER had TDM support, so we are kinda mixing up the 2 products, 4.1 was a free upgraqde, but NO TDM support, I still have the boxes.  I will take a closer look, but the TDM support is in the product you pictured the "Audio XT" version 3 I believe

Offline IIO

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2022, 11:15:09 AM »
everyone writes his references from other references, that is why such rumors survive. :)

however, the original post was a call for the TDM version to show up magically, which is a good idea, but to my knowlegde will never happen because there are probably less than 5 people who might still have a copy and under such circumstance you dont release stuff.
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Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Cubase TDM 4.1
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2022, 01:08:45 PM »
Quote
Cubase V4.1 — Mac
1999

Macintosh only. Downloadable as a free upgrade to owners of VST24 4.0. Introduced VST 2.0, ASIO 2.0, DSP Factory support, TDM support and more. In addition, the Cubase VST/24 Mixer/EQ section included an extension with 5 new real-time processing modules — Compressor, Limiter, Auto Gate, Auto Limit and Soft Clip. A number of VST elements could also now be controlled remotely via external devices such as the Yamaha 01-V

Hey smiles, awesome research, but I can't let this go because many use this stuff as reference... I gotta clear up the confusion, CuBase 4.1 NEVER had TDM support, so we are kinda mixing up the 2 products, 4.1 was a free upgraqde, but NO TDM support, I still have the boxes.  I will take a closer look, but the TDM support is in the product you pictured the "Audio XT" version 3 I believe

wait what yoz have the boxes ye do take a look, do you have a mix core card?
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts