Non-existent User applications/missing Mac OS 9 functionality

[Mat]

We had similar threads already, but I would like to focus once again on the things that you are missing from the software side. What are the things that you cannot do on Mac OS 9 computers, that force you to switch to other computers? What would you like to do that you can´t recently? What programs would you really need? Things like "faster Graphiccards" or "new and cheap CPU upgrades" or "4GB Ram" or similar shall not be part of this thread.

What software is really missing for you?
Perhaps there is already a solution out there, or we can subsequently think together how to solve it, and find a new solution.

I´ll start with some of the for me interresting things:

• opening some modern PDFs (mainly 2.0 and 1.7 versions)
• using .odt and "new RTF" (as .docx, even if it is partially done with docxconerter)
• several Video Codecs
• Improved Classilla
• OpenVPN
• watching YT videos directly again
• viewing some modern CAD formats (step, Autocad, ...)
• opening every .dmg
• encrypted Jabber Client
• native formatter utility for all file systems (FAT32, ext, ...)

What else are you missing?

[torvan]

Hmmmm.   

I would say:

1. Improved Classilla. I do not want to see the mobile versions of sites, and since I have a Gigabit internal network and a 125gb internet speed, I would like to see it render that fast. YouTube would be really nice.

2. Networking with Intel versions of OS X. Sure, I can FTP into them using Fetch, but I would really like to just browse my Intel machines.

3. Improved file system. HFS and HFS+ are decent enough, but man I want to put in a 4 TB hard drive in my G4 iMac and NOT have to partition it.

4. Opening and writing modern PDFs and Office formats. I would make OS9 my regular machine if I was not dependent on Acrobat and Office 2011.

5. Updated music client. I have a Pro server for iTunes, so I would much rather have streaming than local files for my OS 9 machines.

6. Protected memory and preemptive processing. No more "this app forces a reboot or force quit." or Type 1,2, or 3 errors.

[Mat]

1. Improved Classilla. I do not want to see the mobile versions of sites

You know that you can switch the user agent? Preferences -> Browser Copatibility and you´ll get the usual desktop versions if you select Classilla, FF or IE

2. Networking with Intel versions of OS X.

That should be possible with Netatalk. Later Netatalk versions (past 2.2) have just IP connections, but it should work without problems to browse the entire HD if you activate it within Netatalk.

3. Improved file system. HFS and HFS+ are decent enough, but man I want to put in a 4 TB hard drive in my G4 iMac and NOT have to partition it.

Is that really a problem? I mean partition size is 2TB for Mac OS 9 (with HFS+), so putting in a 4 TB disk, and do 2 partitions, ... or are we talking about hardware limitations?
BTW what is the limit for FireWire or FAT 32 USB/eSATA drives?

4. Opening and writing modern PDFs and Office formats. I would make OS9 my regular machine if I was not dependent on Acrobat and Office 2011.

That´s interresting. And very straight words. That´s interresting for me as well. The funny part, both things shouldd be doable, even by a single developer. As long as you can live with how, for example, Libre Office is interpreting modern Office documents? Because from what I read, every alternative producer is struggeling with Microsoft formats, and as soon as it comes to Macros from within Word or Excel, no other product is 100% accrate.
But Office 2001 isn´t that bad at all in my opinion. Docxconverter saved my live several times, and the 2001 suite still feels fresh and well suited for most things (except that docx and xml stuff). But of course I see your point.

5. Updated music client. I have a Pro server for iTunes, so I would much rather have streaming than local files for my OS 9 machines.

Ah, thats interresting, what does this server do? Is it locally at your other computer? If filesharing (as suggested above) will work again for you, could you live with iTunes 2, Audion or SoundJam MP streaming your music over the network, or is something else missing like codecs? Or do you talk at least about some cloud streaming from commercial companies?

6. Protected memory and preemptive processing. No more "this app forces a reboot or force quit." or Type 1,2, or 3 errors.

Well as I said several times I don´t belive in preemptive multitasking, it would kill our snappy OS, and everything would be lost in "OS overhead" again. But nevertheless, this thread shall not be the place for OS improvements, modern hardware or new drivers and such stuff. I´d like to collect things that concern user programs or could be done with 3rd party programs (like the filesystems - thats why I wrote "missing Mac OS 9 functionality" in the subject), and hacking the OS is definitely something different.

[torvan]

1. Improved Classilla. I do not want to see the mobile versions of sites

You know that you can switch the user agent? Preferences -> Browser Copatibility and you´ll get the usual desktop versions if you select Classilla, FF or IE
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Yes, I do know that, but I hate the message that comes up warning you all the time when you launch it telling you that you have alternated the user agent and strongly suggesting you switch it back.

2. Networking with Intel versions of OS X.

That should be possible with Netatalk. Later Netatalk versions (past 2.2) have just IP connections, but it should work without problems to browse the entire HD if you activate it within Netatalk.
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Yeah, but I want it built into the OS instead. Let me launch the Network Browser and see what is on the network--not a third party solution that is as complex as Netatalk appears to be looking at the documentation.  Especially when Terminal tells me that "Fatal: Remove branch develop not found in upstream origin." Ugh.

3. Improved file system. HFS and HFS+ are decent enough, but man I want to put in a 4 TB hard drive in my G4 iMac and NOT have to partition it.

Is that really a problem? I mean partition size is 2TB for Mac OS 9 (with HFS+), so putting in a 4 TB disk, and do 2 partitions, ... or are we talking about hardware limitations?
BTW what is the limit for FireWire or FAT 32 USB/eSATA drives?
____________________________________________________________________________

I don't like using partitions period--I want it all on one drive. I want to be able to install OS9 on that large drive and just see one hard drive icon without worrying about the 200GB OS limit. Again, there are third party solutions but I want it to be native.

As for other drives, for storage no issues save for the 2 TB issue, but if you want to boot from them--then you have that boot partition limit. That is an OS limitation, not a hardware one.

5. Updated music client. I have a Pro server for iTunes, so I would much rather have streaming than local files for my OS 9 machines.

Ah, thats interresting, what does this server do? Is it locally at your other computer? If filesharing (as suggested above) will work again for you, could you live with iTunes 2, Audion or SoundJam MP streaming your music over the network, or is something else missing like codecs? Or do you talk at least about some cloud streaming from commercial companies?
____________________________________________________________________________
This Mac Pro Server manages the 14 other machines in the house. It serves as the backup, it serves as the music and video server, and it manages the router that they connect to.  What I want is something later iTunes versions have--streaming from the server all the media in all it's forms. Added to that would be the Pandora/Apple Music option as well. Basically what I can get using the Pro Server to play on itself and the other El Capitan machines.

6. Protected memory and preemptive processing. No more "this app forces a reboot or force quit." or Type 1,2, or 3 errors.

Well as I said several times I don´t belive in preemptive multitasking, it would kill our snappy OS, and everything would be lost in "OS overhead" again. But nevertheless, this thread shall not be the place for OS improvements, modern hardware or new drivers and such stuff. I´d like to collect things that concern user programs or could be done with 3rd party programs (like the filesystems - thats why I wrote "missing Mac OS 9 functionality" in the subject), and hacking the OS is definitely something different.

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I have not read you saying that before, so this is new to me; but prime example for me was today--installing Baldur's Gate Two and Finder locked up completely because Classilla was also running at the same time. Force quitting created a nice Type 3 error. Rebooting with all extensions off and only installing Baldur's Gate 2 was allI could do, meaning I just sat there waiting. So Preemptive and Protective would have allowed me to do other things at the same time.  While I recognize you were saying things that are missing on OS X that existed on OS 9, I thought to myself "Hell, what is missing from OS 9 that I would like to see!" to expand the discussion a bit.

[Metrophage]

I don't like using partitions period--I want it all on one drive. I want to be able to install OS9 on that large drive and just see one hard drive icon without worrying about the 200GB OS limit. Again, there are third party solutions but I want it to be native.

As for other drives, for storage no issues save for the 2 TB issue, but if you want to boot from them--then you have that boot partition limit. That is an OS limitation, not a hardware one.

I wonder if OS 9 might be unreliable with such a huge file system. The desktop database system was designed for much smaller drives and files. I would love for it to be extensible, but I suspect that would take some work. It would be horrible to copy so much great stuff to a nice huge drive only to have it instantly fragmented to unusability.

[ovalking]

Thinking about what I can't do on my Mac...

1. WWW - primarily on-line shopping & YouTube. I can get by with OS8/9 browsers for most other stuff. Classilla's too slow and buggy for my liking, but I've learned to love its mobile user agent. Why don't you like mobile versions of sites Torvan? I find they're usually far superior. But I do think such sites should be accessible via an alternative URL rather than user agent.

2. Opening .xlsx files. It's always annoyed me when people save in a newer format for no good reason. So this is not just a Mac issue. The only place I can open these files is at work using some awful recent version of Office.

3. Opening the odd pdf file that Acrobat 4/5 reports is 'damaged and can not be repaired'.

4. Accessing some file servers on an intranet. They don't seem to use a Mac friendly protocol.

5. Some games. But this is not a problem - I've got more Mac games to play than I've got time for.

6. H.323 client - so I can communicate with a video conferencing unit I have.

I'm struggling to think of anything else....

[GaryN]

Except for #5, which isn't really a problem anyway you say, I can't help but notice that all of your "can't do's" are related to communicating with the rest of the world that has moved on to newer protocols and standards, leaving your's (our's) behind.

The simple, easy solution is to stop trying. The things you seek are a constantly moving target and they pull farther away from OS8/9 every day.
Get an Intel-based MacBook or similar to interface with the outside world and translate the "unreadable" pdf's and such. You'll save a lot of aggravation!

[Mat]

Get an Intel-based MacBook or similar to interface with the outside world and translate the "unreadable" pdf's and such.

For sure NOT!
5 sold Macbook Airs are the amount of money that we would need to hire an professional coder who is solving all PDF issues within 3 months for the entire plattform, just as an Example.

There is no reason why our Macs should not be able to display modern PDFs or xml based Office documents. It is not only about the OS, it is also about the planned obsolescence. See what we talked about the unbootable machines and concern marketing the last days.

But I am not here to argue against your impressions. I rather like to get this "survey" representative. So please eerybody, speak up, even if you are new to the forums!

[GaryN]

I find that often, the "damaged" pdf opens just fine in newer versions of Acrobat or even Preview in OSX, and that the "damage" appears to be just something new the app doesn't understand. So, hire a code jockey to what? Reverse-engineer the old Acrobat code that Adobe won't give up and update it?

Okay, let's assume that happens… that's one. Now, what about the rest?

There are two ways to deal with obsolescence: Patch, patch, patch is one. Spend lots of time (and possibly money) on endlessly trying to keep old code "current".

The problem with that is: you don't get that time back and you only live once.

I use OS9 to make music because it works well to make music. I love the workflow and the results are every bit as good as I could ever get on anything newer that I could possibly afford.  When I have to share tracks with the current users and current versions of PT, for example, I translate the tracks to something they can open or import. I don't however, expect to ever see a StudioVision menu item that says "Export to Pro Tools 10".

I think Cameron Kaiser is an amazing dude. He single-handedly keeps 10-4-Fox "current" and that's a very nice thing to have. So is Classilla. Neither of those even comes close to the performance of a modern browser on a newer computer, however. That's just life, man.

A practical OS 9.2.3 would be / will be a great thing to achieve. By the time it happens, there will unfortunately be new incompatibilities to overcome.

There's a balance to be struck in life - it's Zen, man.

[will9]

Like GaryN, my intention with OS9 is to make music. The lack of a decent browser and other modern software is actually one of its strengths for me - there is nothing else to distract me.

On the other hand, it seems even if you wanted to develop for the platform, you will have a hard time trying to find any resources. Everything Apple once had hosted about it is apparently long gone. It also appears that porting software to the platform isn't a matter of recompiling some c code to the correct format (go read what it takes to compile the Classilla code and you'll understand why we haven't seen an update in so long) - thats a real shame because theres a lot of useful tools from the linux world that could be used...

[Mat]

OK, guys I know I am guilty myselve about starting to discuss. But I really do not like to discusse her in this thread, especially not general expectations to hardware/software combinations and the IT-Industy. Can we pleas open another thread to discuss. We can aat every time open a new thread and discuss the next decade there!

In this thread as many people as possible should tell what they like to do with Mac OS 9 what they cannot recently. It really should not end up in "why", "why not", god/bad idea or some other skirmish.

I would like to get it as representative as possible to sort out what is mostly needed, and perhaps find a solution for it!

[Mat]

Come on, I´d like to read from a lot more users what they miss!