OS 9 natively vs. virtualised - advice needed!

[IDidMyTimeOnOS9]

Hello,

Please bear with me this a long post - the gist of it is this:

Is there any real advantage in running OS9 natively vs. virtualised on a PPC with Tiger for the sole purposes of:

Running Sounddiver, Sample editing and SMDI transfer (using Peak)?
There is also a program called FSEQ, an editor programme made by Yamaha for one of their late 90's synths called FS1R https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar99/articles/yamahafs1r.htm which I would like to use if possible.

The reason I am asking is:
I have a 7300/G3 available to do the job but it has two drawbacks: It is long in the tooth, noisy as hell and not easily integrateable with modern day peripherals, as I need to have long (approx 10m) ABD and Serial cable runs.

I could try and pimp it out with an Aztec Monster to get rid of all the noisy SCSI drives, and a PCI USB/Firewire card to be able to use cheap, off the shelf USB extensions for the keyboard and mouse/trackball. Sounddiver wouldn't be pretty at 1024x768 but it would probably work.

The other option would be to buy a (pre PCI-x) G5 dual for which I have an old ATTO SCSI card already and could also get the "Stealth" serial port.

On paper the G5 strikes me as the more practical solution: Tiger should be fine with the ATTO card and I can run a newer version of Peak for SMDI and editing. Networking and storage would be more convenient and I would have USB 2.0.

But what about classic progerammes that need OMS? Would the stealth port be accessible by OMS and useable in Classic? How about SCSI? Could Recycle, Alchemy, etc. use that from within classic? The Yamaha editor needs a MIDI interface on a Serial Port. Does the Stealth Port work in Classic?

I am really scratching my head here and  any advice is most welcome.

[Mat]

Go for the real thing! Use Mac OS 9 natively!

Even if I cannot answer your questions about the special programs you are asking for, don´t try to produce music with Mac OS 9 running in Classic. It will not be fun! You will stuble upon several problems, not know if it is X, Classic or Mac OS 9, ... Always keep in mind Classic was created to force users to use X.

A few more thoughts; when you talk about noise produced by the 7300, I am wondering if you have ever heard a G5 in action?

What for would you need SCSI inside the G5?

I have some stelathports (cannot tell you anything about compatibility with Classic as I don´t use it), and they are nice. But they are not 100% compatible in any case. I had a RIP and another printer not working with them, even if standard stuff worked well (inside my G4s). You will always have to try if your Stealthport will work with your special device.

What do you mean by 1024 x 768? The onboard graphics of an 7300 can do 1280 x 1024.
In general I´d suggest to get a IDE PCI card so you can use all modern SATA devices (including SSDs) with converters, any cheap FireWire/USB (and perhaps network) card, plus a fast graphiccard and all your needs should be fullfilled. Should be quite cheap to get this stuff these days.
If you like to go for a "new" computer, take some later G4 an feel the real Mac OS 9 power (stealth port would have to be tested nevertheless).

[IDidMyTimeOnOS9]

Thanks for your quick reply, Mat. I'm kind of thinking along the same lines. The 7300 has two internal SCSI drives at the moment and they are making quite a racket.

The only reason I'd be needing SCSI in the G5 would be to hook up vintage samplers for editing, looping and sample transfer.

I have ordered a PCI USB/Firewire card for little money and the Aztec Monster which does what you suggested using an IDE PCI card for - albeit much more expensively - d'oh!

Where it gets interesting for me is another graphics card. Could I install something reasonably powerful to get, say 1900x1080? Right now the machine has 2MB VRAM and I think anything above 1024x768 is 8-bit only.

If I could get OMS working without needing a stealth port I might buy a DP G4 which would be a great option because of the extra power. I'll have to investigate.

[Mat]

Ah, I understand about the SCSI needs now. First I thought you are thinking about SCSI drives needed for 9 somehow.

And of course some SCSI drives can be extremely loud. Your AztecMonster SCSI to CF converter will be a huge improvement. I am interrested how fast the data transfere will be.

About the graphics, yes a fast video card with modern resolution is as well a huge improvement. I´d suggest some ATI 7000 for example. This card works also well with older Mac OS versions than 9.2.2 and has nevertheless 64 MB Ram, DVD decoding and huge resolutions like 1920 x 1200 in fast speed. Should be 15 bucks.
The onboard graphics with 2 MB is no fun of course, even if it can do 1280x1024 at 8-bit and 1152x870 at 16-bit. You could think about upgrading the VRam to 4MB to get 1152x870 at 24-bit and 1280x1024 at 16-bit, but the speed will not improve, and a fast grahiccard makes a huge difference! But it could be nice for a smaller 2nd (or 3rd) display for timecode or toolboxes or such stuff if you like to work that way.

What CPU do you use recently inside your 7300?

[IDidMyTimeOnOS9]

Hi Mat,

my CPU is a G3/300 upgrade (I believe). I don't think they did G3s with anything faster at the time. It was perhaps 1999 or 2000 when I installed it.

Thank you for the tip with the ATI card. I have had a look on eBay and there are plenty about. Will they fit into the chassis of the 7300? And will the PSU be powerful enough for the card?

Would this model work?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ati-r7000-graphics-card-/152001355539?hash=item2363fc9f13

[Mat]

Hmm, with an G3/300 I would really go for Mac OS 8.6 instead of 9. Depends on what you need and what programs you like to use. But it is a  lot faster than 9.2.2

I never heard about PSU-problems when using PCI cards. I belive there is always enough power, especially as the graphiccards of this time can still be passive.

The linked card will not work. You need one with an Mac ROM. Search for a dedicated Mac card, and beware to get no flashed PC one, but originally Mac card.

[IDidMyTimeOnOS9]

Thanks for the heads-up, Mat. I am running 9.1 btw. Even though I have technically got a G3 it's onlt the processor so I won't try and install 9.2.2

OS 8.6 won't be working with the Belkin USB card I am buying. Speed is not really that much of a problem as I won't be using this machine for serious multitracking, live instruments, etc.

I think I will probbly leave the GPU for now. I'll see if I find a cheap one but eBay is funny with Mac specific, well, anything! People think they can charge a premium because it's for Mac.

I am instead considering purchasing a G4. THey are cheap to come by these days and I might just get one to have a smoking machine for OS9.

[devils_advisor]

I took a graphics card out of a g4 xserve (7000er series i think) and it worked in a beige g3. I saw a few 7000er on ebay for cheap, dont know about the uk. Maybe you should send the seller a message and ask how they can sleep at night