Author Topic: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)  (Read 57883 times)

supernova777

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Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« on: November 20, 2013, 05:02:58 PM »

This thread is about buffing your disk speed by
running your os off a more modern hard drive, connected via more modern technology then what was available
when the mac was built!

we can do this by using a pci card that provides a few (usually 2) sata ports
a number of companies produce these cards but just a few create cards that have firmware
designed to boot on an os9 system.

Sonnet Tempo Serial ATA


OWC SATAPCI2P (discontinued)

Serial ATA 2-channel PCI controller card for Apple/mac
http://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/manuals/sata/owcsatapci2p300.pdf

Ratoc REX-PS30X

http://www.ratocsystems.com/products/subpage/ps30x.html
http://altern8.envy.nu/alt8/mac/nitro/rexps30x.jpeg
more ratoc os9.2 gear: http://www.ratocsystems.com/products/ostaiou/macos922.html



Ratoc REX-PCI15S
http://img1.kakaku.k-img.com/images/productimage/fullscale/05676010424.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/n6tcv78
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%A9%E3%83%88%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B7%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%83%A0-SATA-PCI%E3%83%9C%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89-REX-
PCI15S/dp/B000GIWUK4
sells for 3,528 yen (around 39 dollars)

Mathey MSATA-P02MAC


http://www.mathey.jp/news31027-2.html
more mathey products: http://www.mathey.jp/SerialATA.html
http://asashina.ikeriri.ne.jp/blog/ja1uvg.php?itemid=2301

(shows a mac compatible 2 port card with SST bios chip)

Siig SC-SA4011 (not sure if bootable, but i saw a 2006 article comparing this with the owc card above )


seritek 1s2

http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1s2/
http://eshop.macsales.com/search/FirmTek

acard 6290m (2 sata / no raid but still mac os 9 bootable)

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816123109

acard 6890m (pci raid controller raid0,1 mac os 9 bootable)


Raid0 / Raid1 mode switchable via dipswitches | supports mac os 9 / mac os x
manual: http://dl.acard.com/manual/english/aec-6890m.pdf

WiebeTech TCS1-1 / WiebeTech TSC2-0 (reffered to as the "teracard" i think?)

http://www.shoplet.com/Wiebetech-llc-WiebeTech-2-Port-Serial-ATA-Controller-TCS1-1/2U94412/spdv
http://www.amazon.com/WiebeTech-TC-PCI-4S-4-Port-Serial-Controller/dp/B000MYGW6K
http://web.archive.org/web/20060411204215/http://www.wiebetech.com/home.php



siig products circa 2006
http://web.archive.org/web/20060813200727/http://www.siig.com/productList.asp?catid=4

avlabs: http://www.avlab.com.tw/sata/sata.htm

these cards will provide much faster disk performance then using the native IDE ATA bus.

to take this a step further some cards were designed to combine two disks into one in os 9. Acard was one of such companies though their cards were not produced in that great a number and they are discontinued now and hard to find.
for reference purposes here is a link to a page describing this acard model that provides both SATA + RAID for OS9.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816123111R



below you can see some data benchmarks i found just now doing a search.. ive linked these via google translate as they are originally posted in japanese!

page 1:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.ca&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://ato-net.jp/column/SATA_bench/SATA_bench.html&usg=ALkJrhhRd5G3NMvNtk7h8kbiaPGnT0X5FA

page 2:
http://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fato-net.jp%2Fcolumn%2FSATA_bench_2%2FSATA_bench_2.html&act=url
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 01:09:35 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline Mat

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2013, 03:16:43 AM »
What I was asking myselve for a long time now, is if there is any SATA Card that can utilize the entire PCI-X bus of the later G4s with its 64 Bit and 66MHz, what would mean 500 MB/s, ... ?

Does anybody remember what of the bus is slowed down if I put a 33MHz 32 Bit card inside a PCI-X slot? Was it the widht or the speed? And is it correct that it nevertheless should stay at 266MB/s even with a 33MHz/32 Bit card inserted in one slot?

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2013, 08:09:54 AM »
im wondering if the sonnet tempo with the 2 internals can make 2 2tb drives available under os9

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2013, 11:30:24 AM »
im wondering if the sonnet tempo with the 2 internals can make 2 2tb drives available under os9
i have the box in front of me let me check the back:

-easy installation
-compatible with most pci power macintosh computers
-48-bit LBA support for drives larger than 137gb
-Supports Mac os X raid features
-supports booting frm any attached drive
-transfers data at 1.5gbps per port

thats all it says

supernova777

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supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2013, 11:47:44 AM »
it might work with 2TB drives but u would have to format them + set them up with osx disk utility in panther or tiger (10.2 or later)
and you would have to make a number of 190gb partitions for the data to be seen from inside os9.
that would mean 10 partitions per 2TB drive.. adding up to 20 Partitions.. its almost not worth the effort  + risk
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 11:49:19 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2013, 11:48:35 AM »
that means i better follow my first idea and get a scsi raid which can have more than 1tb (but in a external case)

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 11:50:47 AM »
why not just use a different computer for a file server that runs osx or something and use ftp
or DAVE to connect. i connect to my windows 7 raid using DAVE and it works fantastic

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 11:52:11 AM »
as i mentioned before my mdd has 2 500gb drives and a 400gb drive in it the original 80gb is my os 9.2.2 and 1 500gb is for osx 10.5.8 as long as i have os9 drivers checked by creation i can see them and use them. 1 problem i have is stability issues but i cant tell if it is from the large partition or something else. i have crashes here and there sometimes just by right clicking and need to turn off the machine to reboot. as far as i know i have not read alot about anybody else having these symptoms.

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 11:53:54 AM »
why not just use a different computer for a file server that runs osx or something and use ftp
or DAVE to connect. i connect to my windows 7 raid using DAVE and it works fantastic

my issue here is most of the software i use is not for networking made like my media 100 system. or even protools they recommend starting with a basic config and only add what you need in extensions. xsan would be interesting but doesnt seem to work under os9 when it comes to the managing part. i just started using timbuktu to remote control my xserve but my stability issues gave me a headache so far.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 11:56:07 AM by devils_advisor »

Offline Mat

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2013, 02:01:07 PM »
1 problem i have is stability issues but i cant tell if it is from the large partition or something else. i have crashes here and there sometimes just by right clicking and need to turn off the machine to reboot. as far as i know i have not read alot about anybody else having these symptoms.
That is exactly what I often had with "dual boot" Macs. My experiance is that X makes 9 unstable. And it was why I kicked every X and stay with pure 9 Macs, with a lot less problems.

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2013, 02:55:17 PM »
Since i cant use partitions with more than 190gb what about a scsi raid? Im need space to store my video clips of a dv cam.

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2013, 03:51:23 PM »
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA21924

check that out

from what i understand os 9.2.2 has to be on a smaller drive or partition but when you are in os9 only your controller is the limitation. but i been reading so many different answers i guess trial and error is the only way.
my mdd is the last one who can boot into os9 without using classic.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 03:59:53 PM by devils_advisor »

Offline DieHard

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2013, 10:56:12 PM »
There are several things to keep in mind about the overall purpose of the system...

If it is a going to be used as a file server... then sticking a bunch of bus mastering PCI SATA cards (RAID or otherwise) in a G4 is just peachy, but if the unit is going to be for Audio or Video and will have a PCI Audio interface, UAD-1 Card, Powercore Card or PCI video capture card, then building a fast HD system that produces Audio Pops or Video drop-outs because of the RAID or SATA card then all this extra speed becomes useless.  In other words, there is a limit to the amount of data that can be juggled around the PCI bus, and even though there are 4 PCI card slots, this does not mean that all combinations of filling these slots will play nicely together, so you have to prioritize what is the most important cards that are going to be used for the overall functionality on the system.  Some combinations that I have tried with no issues are... DA or MDD with (1) M-Audio 2496 or Motu 324/424 Card with (1 or 2) UAD-1 or PowerCore PCI cards, I have also used FW interfaces with SATA PCI cards and had no issues, I have been up many a late night when trying to combine HD SATA PCI cards with Audio or Video Capture cards and have had some real headaches.

In a DAW environment, the SSD Drives that I use from OWC connect directly to the ATA-100 bus (via an included SATA to PATA adapter)...

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/SSDMXLE120/

These drives boot Mac OS 9 in about 9 to 11 seconds and I use them for my OS, Apps, and Sample Libraries... and use 500 GB 7200 PATA IDE drives for Audio Projects.

Chris, one other note is non-SSD drives (both PATA & SATA) drives differ greatly in Speed and Cache... the smaller size drives like the 80GB may have as little as 8MB or 16MB cache so they will be a lot slower than another drive in its class that is larger (like a 500GB with 32MB cache)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 11:07:18 PM by DieHard »

Offline Mat

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2013, 04:21:55 AM »
DieHard, as you use the OWC SSD, could you post a picture of the IDE to SATA adapter? I was always interrested what kind of adapter they are using, and where it might fit or not, but there is no information anywhere, so a photo would be of high interrest.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 08:20:59 AM »
The MDD PCI bus is 64 bits or 32 bits and 33 Mhz. this allow a Max bandwidth of 133 MB/s (32 bit) or 266 MB/s (64 bits). All the SATA PCI cards for Mac os 9 are 32 bits. This allow a Max bandwidth of 133 MB/s. This fact and sharing the PCI bus with other cards (like in/out audio and DSP cards) let this SATA cards low room for improvements.
The ATA/100 in the MDD is direct connected to the UniNorth. Not sharing PCI bus bandwith allows the IDE/SATA adaptors be a no so bad option, and the cheap and easy choice.

I been using for several months −whith good results− one like this:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-PATA-IDE-TO-Serial-ATA-SATA-Interface-Hard-Drive-Adapter-Converter-/300945676416?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item4611c29880
http://dx.com/p/rxd-629a-parallel-pata-to-serial-sata-hard-disk-converter-green-black-white-165213

alongside a Samsumg 128 Gb SSD.


It would be interesting to see some test results with those SATA cards against this adaptors.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 11:04:23 AM by chrisNova777 »
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Knez

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2013, 08:50:00 AM »
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kingspec-16Gb-40Pin-Ide-Mlc-Dom-Disk-On-Module-Ssd-/380803218617?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item58a9a3fcb9

I use one of these with great success in my MDD. I have the 32gb version and it works great with all the apps installed. It allso has a 500gb 7.2k rpm drive for recording. You have to remeber how big the hard drives where around 10-12 years ago, 32gb for system+installed apps is more than enough. I think I use up around 7gb in total with Classilla, Reason 2.5, Pro Tools TDM 5.1.3, Logic 6 and alot of plugins installed.

I have the 16gb 2.5" version in my Atari Falcon, and it works just great there too. Awesome piece of hardware :)

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2013, 02:00:06 AM »
thats not what i read in the technote that i pasted it said that its an os limitation that it wont recognize partitions bigger then 190gb

i would like to know the definitive answer on this..

Knez

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2013, 04:35:38 AM »
thats not what i read in the technote that i pasted it said that its an os limitation that it wont recognize partitions bigger then 190gb

i would like to know the definitive answer on this..

190gb is definitely not a OS limitation. I use my 500gb drive with OS9 and it works like a charm. Initialized and formatted in OS9 as well, and it found the whole drive without any issues.

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2013, 04:56:43 AM »
all i found was the start disk has to be at the begin of a hard drive just like windows in the old days. once you started you can have a certain amount of partitions and they can be big. look at the avid raids. i think its a combination of os and controller.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2013, 02:10:31 PM »
Of course volumes can be bigger than 190GB. But if you have any data issues or need to de-fragment the drive, then most likely you are SOL; All utilities I have tried (Disk First Aid, Norton, Disk Warrior) seem to have a real issues with any volume bigger than this; In the Audio World, smaller volumes make sense and there is definitely a speed increase on PATA volumes (obviously, you never defrag an SSD) when they are de-fragmented...

Also I like to make every volume bootable to OS 9, in case of a system crash, so just another reason to sick to the 190GB rule.

If Knez or anyone else has had a volume of 500GB with over 250GB of stuff and used the HDTS defrag, please let me know if it worked... always wanted to try that, but never had the time.  In fact, I would love a list of data recovery and maintenance tools that work on partitions that size that are at least 50% full... I never found any
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 02:54:07 PM by DieHard »

Knez

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2014, 03:44:38 AM »
DieHard: I use a bootable DVD of iDefrag and defragment my drives that way. Never tried Norton or any other OS9-only defragmentation application on my drives.

I could give it a try so we know what happens :)

Offline DieHard

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2014, 01:46:30 PM »
A utility for OS 9 that will defragment large volumes would be great, but booting to an OS X DVD and running I iDefrag sounds interesting, if I get time I will try this sometime 8)  Thanks for the heads up.

I am very comfortable with 190GB volume sizes; I like to organize things by volume and this is plenty for me; all my volumes are OS 9 Bootable with different themes (So I know which I booted to); and I simple run maintenance on all the other volumes.  This works for me.... not sure if I ever want to boot to OS X (even to run iDefrag) on my dedicated OS 9 G4s; I did a lot of experimenting in the day and now that I have kept my 3 MDDs and 2 QS without X for the last 6 years, I have not had one hickup... so I am a creature of habit.  Maybe I will do a test machine and do the iDefrag thing for the record... a very cool option if large (non-bootable) volumes are needed.

Knez

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2014, 11:55:22 AM »
DieHard, it only works on Mac capable of booting 10.5.x though, since the iDefrag DVD uses a custom version of 10.5 to boot into. If you have iDefrag, just use the link in the picture to create a bootable DVD. You can choose from a Intel only or a Universal DVD (10.5 based).

Try it out, it works great and is a great workaround. Might post the DVD image here for all the people not using OSX.
Then they can at least burn the DVD and boot into iDefrag :)

« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 11:57:48 AM by Knez »

Offline DieHard

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2014, 12:02:16 PM »
Awesome...thanks



Offline Ozfer

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2014, 09:56:57 AM »
The main issue that comes along is the PCI bus limitation. As stated the max for this system on pci is 133MB/s.

If you have one of these mac systems and you use PCI graphics, some sort of pci sound card, gigabit Ethernet, and a pci sata card with SSDs they are all fighting for the same 133MB(theoretical max) of space on the bus and will start degrading each others performance. I know there is some sort of a speed limit on the internal IDE but if you use all those other cards it may actually be faster then a pci card.

PCI-X on the other hand is able to work at about 500MB/s or 1GBP/s and should not take away from normal pci bandwidth.

It would be interested to find a PCI-X add on sata card for a mac that not only supports storage but booting. The only systems I personally have PCI-X on are high end servers from around 2000 lol and they run windows and pcix could have been used for storage . Here is a link to a example card that supports mac os 10.4 but not 9 and probably not booting. Unfortunately my powermac g3 with g4 upgrade doesn't have pci-x. If such a card could be found (it would probably have 4 sata ports) you could get a pretty crazy sata quad raid 0 1GB/s setup going on that could pretty much leave everything else in the dust.

http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SATA-PCI-X-Ports-Controller/dp/B002C0Y5X4

Also there are PCI-X to PCI-E adapters that should offer the same speeds and maybe this could be used to allow PCI-E mac or flashed graphics cards in systems that otherwise couldn't use pci-e such as the G4 maybe allowing for faster video performance?

Expensive example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARTECH-PCIX1PEX4-PCI-X-TO-PCIE-ADAPTER-CARD-FOR-DESKTOP-MOTHERBOARD-MBD-/301018098415?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item461613aaef

I don't know how much of this would make a serious performance difference or if people would be willing to spend that much but it would be interesting to test.

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2014, 05:52:36 PM »
there are no g4s that have pci-x slots..
only the g5's featured pci-x bus...
my powermac g5 1.8ghz has pci-x slots.
they also output less power then pci (rated at 3.3v instead of 5v)

if you are talking about upgrading a g3 with a g4 cpu
the pci sata card with any kind of sata drive
ssd or not, will be way way way faster then
the ata/ide drive.. the ide hard drive connection in g3s is way
slower even then a normal g4.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 01:01:09 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline Ozfer

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2014, 07:41:21 PM »
Wow this is puzzling.

I have looked up pictures and can SEE the pci-64 port. You can see in the pic its longer then standard pci and its on a g4.


I looked it up and they are 64 bit pci ports running at 33Mhz according to Wikipedia.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4)
 I guess they are not pci-x but still its pci 64 at 33Mhz and that allows for 266 MB/sec vs the standard PCI 133MB/sec. It should still offer a speed gain if you could utilize them instead of just pci cards as you get double the speed. Actually I didn't even realize there were so many versions till I visited this site. PCI-X and PCI-64 a pretty easy to confuse since the card slot looks the same.

Quote
Standard   Bit   Clock   Transfer rates
(bi-directional)
PCI 2.3   32 Bit   33 MHz   133 MB/sec
PCI 2.3   32 Bit   66 MHz   266 MB/sec
PCI 64   64 Bit   33 MHz   266 MB/sec
PCI 64   64 Bit   66 MHz   533 MB/sec
PCI-X 1.0   64 Bit   66 MHz   533 MB/sec
PCI-X 1.0   64 Bit   100 MHz   800 MB/sec
PCI-X 1.0   64 Bit   133 MHz   1066 MB/sec
PCI-X 2.0 (DDR)   64 Bit   133 MHz   2132 MB/sec
PCI-X 2.0 (QDR)   64 Bit   133 MHz   4264 MB/sec
PCI-Express   1 Lines 8 Bit   2.5 GHz   512 MB/sec
PCI-Express   2 Lines 8 Bit   2.5 GHz   1 GB/sec
PCI-Express   4 Lines 8 Bit   2.5 GHz   2 GB/sec
PCI-Express   8 Lines 8 Bit   2.5 GHz   4 GB/sec
PCI-Express   16 Lines 8 Bit   2.5 GHz   8 GB/sec
source: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/xeon-cpus-intel-p4-extreme-platform,808-4.html

Here is a SCSI card that supports PCI 64 who knows if its mac compatible though
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009LX8EU/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

G4 Models that support PCI-64 over just normal pci are according to wikipedia:
Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics)
Power Mac G4 (Gigabit Ethernet)
Power Mac G4 (Digital Audio)
Power Mac G4 (QuickSilver)
Power Mac G4 (QuickSilver 2002)
Power Mac G4 (QuickSilver 2002ED)
Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors)
Power Mac G4 (FW 800)
Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors 2003)

And the only model that only supports 32bit pci is
Power Mac G4 (PCI Graphics)

Also for the best video performance you would want one with AGP 4X that allows faster throughput such as
Power Mac G4 (Digital Audio)
Power Mac G4 (QuickSilver)
Power Mac G4 (QuickSilver 2002)
Power Mac G4 (QuickSilver 2002ED)
Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors)
Power Mac G4 (FW 800)
Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors 2003)

Also I was talking about G4s or G3s either way if you use a high end PCI card for graphics, audio, and gigabit Ethernet there is a real chance that it could impact the performance of a HDD through PCI. I have no idea how much it would be compared to the original board but it could be tested. It would make more of a impact on raid 0 systems or ssd systems. Mactron even said this earlier "  This allow a Max bandwidth of 133 MB/s. This fact and sharing the PCI bus with other cards (like in/out audio and DSP cards) let this SATA cards low room for improvements."

OMJ I didn't even see what mactron posted lol he seems to always beat me to these things... new challenge, find a 64 bit pci sata card compatible with os 9 :)

Here is one that will work in a G4 and is pci 64 bit but only works in os 10.3 and up made by sonnet
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONNET-TECH-Tempo-SATA-X4P-Host-Adapter-TSATAII-X4P-Windows-Mac-PCI-X-/171230196577?pt=US_Computer_Disk_Controllers_RAID_Cards&hash=item27de1d7361

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_sata_x4p.html
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_sata_x4i.html

WOOT I DID IT :):):):)

This card has 4 sata ports supports native mac booting and mac os and supports os 9 and SHOULD work with 5v or 3v pci 64 bit.
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1v4/

Imagine mac os 9 with 4 SSD in raid 0 with 266MB/sec instead of 133 that's double the HDD speed right there.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 08:07:05 AM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2014, 09:40:03 PM »
mac os 9 doesnt support raid on its own
it would have to be software-powered raid.. which would suck;)
or a hardware card that does the raid (oblivious to the os)

the card i have (noted above) is the acard AEC-6890m and it is the only pci sata hardware raid card that i could find,
i got the last one in stock from acard themselves, this card is deleted, rare, + sold out now
the os will see the two drives on this card if its configured to raid modes as one drive

from the box u can see there is also a bigger version that supports 4 drives... the AEC-6896m
but i cant even find a picture of it on the net.. its 10 year old technology that wasnt ever really mass produced i think
and could be very hard to find

re: the other stuff u brought up, check out the next page:
http://superuser.com/questions/526118/bandwidth-of-pcisata-card-vs-built-in-sata


so, from the info re: slot pattern config above, u can see that it is indeed a 5v 64bit PCI slot pictured on what looks like a quicksilver motherboard

regardless of any limitations, im pretty sure the Sata Pci card will smoke any of the built in ATA's..
that would be interesting to see.. a side by side boot up + benchmark test
from the same SSD drive..

first, connected via one of the PCI-Sata cards i detailed above..
2nd, connected via the card you linked (the 64bit Seritek 1v4)
3rd, connected via PATA adapter on an ATA-100 bus
3th, connected via PATA adapter on an ATA-66 bus

i understand you think that the seritek 1v4 would be tops..
and it may be.. seeing as they are promising 1.5gbps for each port..
the other cards i detailed do the same, but only feature 2 channels.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 06:56:54 AM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2014, 07:22:04 AM »
seritek also has the:
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve2plus2/
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve2plus2/spec/
32/64 bit, 33/66MHz PCI

http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve4/
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve4/spec/
32/64 bit, 33/66MHz PCI

also if u check:
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1s2/spec/
32 bit, 33/66MHz PCI

Quote
"Developers eventually used the combined 64-bit and 66-MHz extension as a foundation, and, anticipating future needs, established 66-MHz and 133-MHz variants with a maximum bandwidth of 532 MB/s and 1064 MB/s respectively" ---http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-X

quote from everymac.com re: g4 450mhz
"In the default configuration, this model has three open 33 MHz 64-bit PCI slots, and a 133 MHz 2X AGP slot occupied by the graphics card. It also has an open AirPort (802.11b) expansion slot."
so that is why these are not pci-x slots.. because pci-x is 66mhz 64-bit i think?

see also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventional_PCI

so the real question for these sata cards for use with g4 mac's..

33mhz 32bit pci max throughput
VS
33mhz 64bit pci max throughput

is there a drastic speed difference to use a pci sata 32bit vs pci sata 64bit card?

64bit
VS
32bit
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 08:12:29 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline MacTron

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2014, 08:43:10 AM »
so the real question for these sata cards for use with g4 mac's..
33mhz 32bit pci max throughput
VS
33mhz 64bit pci max throughput
is there a drastic speed difference to use a pci sata 32bit vs pci sata 64bit card?

That's the question.
132MB/s versus 266MB/s
We need a test that show us that this 64 bits cards have a throughput between 132 and 266MB/s in a G4. That will prove that really works at 64 bits...
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 08:45:21 AM by MacTron »
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline Ozfer

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2014, 02:40:17 PM »
According to tech specs it is 64 bit. I would be interested In Seeing the speed difference. Lol and you guys called me crazy making up ports and speed that don't exist ::) anyways software 4 way raid can beat 2 way hardware raid. Yes 66mhz 64 bit is pci-x and it's impossible to tell what's one it is by just looking at a picture so you can see why I thought it was PCI-x

What wod be interesting to benchmark is having your PCI sad setup by itself and haring low power or integrated gpu and a test with the same setup but a fancy PCI graphics card sound card/audio devices and some gigabit internet ports while downloading. You would see a speed hit.

Sorry for spelling mistakes I'm typing this up fast on my iphone
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 03:02:23 PM by Ozfer »

Offline Syntho

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2014, 03:31:46 AM »
Hey guys, I just bought that OWC SSD drive for my G4, so thanks to DieHard for linking it.

I saw in the OWC installation video that there's a 133/ATA and a 66/ATA area. It said 133 in the video but I'm guessing it's actually 100.

Is it worth it to have separate SSDs for different jobs? I could put at least one more SSD in there. That way I could have an OS drive so my DAW programs are fast, and a separate one for tacking/recording so it doesn't interfere with the performance of my OS HD.

I'll be using Pro tools 5.1.3 and Logic 6.3.1 and I don't know how much of a 'DFD' (direct from disk) thing it uses when using sample players. It seems optimal to have 3x SSD drives - one for OS, one for tracking, one for samples, but I've only got room for two ATA/100 drives.

How many SSDs would you use and how would you divide the tasks up?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 03:33:28 AM by Syntho »

Offline Ozfer

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2014, 10:31:04 AM »
If you have a SSD unless your doing some pretty intense file transfers 1 is fine.

Also guys here is a sonnet tempo on ebay 4 port sata mac pci-x and I believe pci 64 (they say it works with g4) compatible 4 raid card. Looks like it already had quite the bidding war but that would give you the best for space and performance in a G4.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonnet-Tempo-SATA-X4i-4-Port-Serial-ATA-SATA-PCI-X-Card-/281263474347?pt=US_Internal_Port_Expansion_Cards&hash=item417c9c06ab

Offline Syntho

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2014, 10:50:55 AM »
So there won't be much of a difference if I use just one single SSD for everything? I always heard to leave your applications on one drive and record to another. Hmm..

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2014, 10:56:38 AM »
So there won't be much of a difference if I use just one single SSD for everything? I always heard to leave your applications on one drive and record to another. Hmm..

tuff to say if
SSD -> SSD copy  = faster
then moving files on the same drive.. but. it is FLASH rom or ram or whatever..
so its possible?
back in the day of course seperate disks was way faster due to the limitation of moving parts
the only reason u would need two SSD's tho is if u wanted more then 190GB of space..
as this 190gb limit for booting in os9 still applies to the ssds.. so with this in mind
it may be better to get two seperate 120gb SSD
then it would be to get a single 250gb
makes senses?

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2014, 10:57:30 AM »
If you have a SSD unless your doing some pretty intense file transfers 1 is fine.

Also guys here is a sonnet tempo on ebay 4 port sata mac pci-x and I believe pci 64 (they say it works with g4) compatible 4 raid card. Looks like it already had quite the bidding war but that would give you the best for space and performance in a G4.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonnet-Tempo-SATA-X4i-4-Port-Serial-ATA-SATA-PCI-X-Card-/281263474347?pt=US_Internal_Port_Expansion_Cards&hash=item417c9c06ab

i was gonna post this one earlier but couldnt find anything @ http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_sata_x4i.html saying it supported booting mac os 9!
u will notice that they claim 3 Gb/s per port SATA II controller.. does that mean per port? or per card?

the sonnet cards that i have however use the firmtek rom's to get their mac os 9 compatibility
i believe the roms were originally made by firmtek's people
i also have some other cards that were made by a guy from oregon usa where he flashed the rom into a
generic silicon image sata card and they work then.. so its all about the actual software on the rom bios chip on the actual card
that makes it compatible otherwise they could all be compatible + recognized... amazing eh?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 11:00:17 AM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2014, 11:51:51 AM »
on the topic of pci-x controllers... one thing that wasnt discussed is raid controllers
i have read that hte 640L highpoint rocketraid works out of the box and are bootable
for hackintosh's with pci-express slots...

i wonder if this card would be both powermac g4/g5 compatible
as well as hackintosh compatible

http://www.highpoint-tech.cn/USA/rr2224.htm

i almost ordered one a few months back
would be a real kick to find out if it actually DOES support mac os 9.. becuase things like this.. they frequently
just OMIT because they think noone wuld be even interested in it. (again, thanks to the elaborate funeral for mac os 9.. thanks steve;) but of course this was a requirement in his plan to convert everyone to osx swiftly the man greatly understoon the larger social mind + psyche hehe)

it would be awesome to find a PCI-X raid controller for raid 0/1/10/5 that is bootable + mac os 9 compatible aswell as compatible with g4s AND g5s AND hackintosh boxes running 10.5.x or 10.6.x (or even 10.7.x+)

Offline Enabler

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2014, 04:14:26 AM »
Your dream come true...........
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1v4/
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve2plus2/
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve4/
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1se2/

I own 2 similar models, they are bootable and require no software. I guess there is special firmware on the card. No drivers needed. Works in OS9 & OSX

Offline MacTron

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2014, 10:21:30 AM »
I own 2 similar models, they are bootable and require no software. I guess there is special firmware on the card. No drivers needed. Works in OS9 & OSX
Can you show us the performance of this card in Mac Os 9 Please?
You can use the attached QuickBench app, in the extended tab.
Thank You.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2014, 12:55:19 PM »
Your dream come true...........
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1v4/
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve2plus2/
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve4/
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1se2/

I own 2 similar models, they are bootable and require no software. I guess there is special firmware on the card. No drivers needed. Works in OS9 & OSX

similar models? so u own a different brand then firmtek? but still 64bit pci? + works in os9? :o the first 3 are 64bit.. the 1se2 is 32bit

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=sata+64+bit&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xsata+%28pci-x%2C+64bit%29&_nkw=sata+%28pci-x%2C+64bit%29&_sacat=0

i think it would be possible that some other no name cards work.. well .. not "no name" but a card like "highpoint" for example has a history of being compatible with macs..

acard aswell:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acard-AEC-6896S-4-Channel-SATA-RAID-Controller-PCI-X-/121261957617?pt=US_Computer_Disk_Controllers_RAID_Cards&hash=item1c3bc6a1f1
but alas no mention of mac in the manual http://dl.acard.com/manual/english/aec-6896.pdf
****ok the rule for acard products is -- it must end in the letter "m" for it to be mac compatible firmware
ie; 6890m etc

if i could have whichever card i wanted
i would want this one: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Firmtek/SATA1EVE22/
because it gives u 2 internal + 2 external..
+ is 64bit.. i really would like to know if these cards perform faster then the 32bit ones



regarding the sonnet card "X4P" i would love to hear from someone who has this card..
as the previous model "tempo-X" has documentation that claims mac os 9 compatibility..
http://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/tempo-x_sata_4+4_qsg.pdf
(^^ verify for yourself in this document)

but the x4p's documents make no mention.. i would think there is a chance it is compatible and they simply do not mention this.. sonnets documentation is usually very thorough and i would think they woiuld mention it if it WASNT
compatlble for clarity's sake.. http://cvp.com/pdf/tempo_sata_x4p_qsg.pdf
 (^^^ no mac os 9 mention in thsi document)

theres also the x4i model http://www.sonnettech.com/Product/tempo_sata_x4i.html
that i didnt check

to recap... the x4p, x4i models do not make any claim of mac os 9 compatibility.. but the tempo-x discontinued 8 port model's manual did claim compatibility with mac os 9.

actually the tempo-x claims compatibility with x 10.2+ not os9.. but the manual makes a brief mention of 9..
Quote
"if you need to access a drive or partition from Mac OS 9, be sure to click the Install Mac OS 9 Drivers checkbox."
so it would seem that even tho the smaller 32bit tempo sata cards are totally firmtek 1s2 cards witht he right firmware
these cards would appear to not have the firmtek firmware , its a shame because theres a number of these for sale for under 75$ on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xtempo-x+sonn&_nkw=tempo-x+sonnet&_sacat=0&_from=R40
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 03:01:42 PM by chrisNova777 »

Offline Enabler

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2014, 02:55:48 PM »
Yup, that's the ones I have 2 internal & 2 external.....for some reason I couldn't find it on their site because I couldn't remember the model number. I guess a brain fart or senior moment must have occurred. Bootable OS9 is hard to find. i will run a speed test but it wont be until next weekend.

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2014, 01:13:02 AM »
if it does indeed turn out that the speed is greatly improved on 64bit pci-x i will have a newfound respect for pci-x!!

i was just looking at this pc mobo its rare to find one like this that has pci-x slots
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-NEW-ASUS-P5WDG2-WS-PRO-pci-x-motherboard-USA-by-DHL-3-10-day-775-DDR2-/261099673617?ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2014, 10:48:59 AM »
http://lowendmac.com/thompson/06/1106.html
http://lowendmac.com/thompson/06/1117.html

these articles make reference to an older owc 2 internal + 2 external mac os 9 bootable card
seen here:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/SATAPCI2P/
seems to have a yellow/orange color pcb

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2014, 09:59:55 PM »
If you have a SSD unless your doing some pretty intense file transfers 1 is fine.

Also guys here is a sonnet tempo on ebay 4 port sata mac pci-x and I believe pci 64 (they say it works with g4) compatible 4 raid card. Looks like it already had quite the bidding war but that would give you the best for space and performance in a G4.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonnet-Tempo-SATA-X4i-4-Port-Serial-ATA-SATA-PCI-X-Card-/281263474347?pt=US_Internal_Port_Expansion_Cards&hash=item417c9c06ab

hey ozfer..
this card i beleive is X only.. i would be thrilled to hear otherwise but i would expect this card would not allow u to boot unless you were using osx as an operating system.

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2014, 11:27:53 AM »

http://www.cooldrives.com/4saiipc64cas.html

id love to get a os9 bootable card with this setup. 3-internal 1-external
havent seen any tho;(

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2014, 12:11:37 AM »
imagine mac os 9 with 4 SSD in raid 0 with 266MB/sec instead of 133 that's double the HDD speed right there.

unfortunately this also adds "double" the chance of a failure in a raid0 configuration so external backup becomes twice as important!

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2014, 12:14:17 AM »

http://www.cooldrives.com/4saiipc64cas.html

id love to get a os9 bootable card with this setup. 3-internal 1-external
havent seen any tho;(

reason i said the above:
1 normal drive, 2x drives for raid0 or raid1 config and 1 external port
which gives u "one of each" type of drive configuration
the closest choice to this would be the http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve2plus2/
which provides 2 internal + 2 external..
u know.. when i think about it.. it might be even best to have all 4 drives be in external enclosures.. allows for easy access.. less possible heat inside the case (if using non-ssd)
this card would provide that: http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve4/
or the lesser http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1se2/

the 1v4 looks like a great option http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1v4/
but with 4 internal ports. wow thats alot of drives to put inside.. if using non-ssd ur looking at a cooling problem
leading to drive failure inevitably

Quote
Port Multiplication: The remarkable new port multiplier technology included in the SeriTek/2SE4 allows each physical eSATA port to access multiple devices at full speed via port multiplier enclosures like FirmTek's new SeriTek/5PM.

for backup.. the ultimate scenario would be to find a card which supports Port multiplier over a single esata but im pretty sure that i looked into this and it was not supported on g4s only g5s + only osx can support port multiplier someone please correct me if im wrong and i wish to be wrong:)
the only card specifyng support for multiplication of ports is http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-2se4/
oh wow! there is mention of the g4 on the specs page! so may be there is hope for port multiplication..
but i would guess this is only in osx on a g4
Quote
Hardware Requirements    

    PCI-X based Macintosh with available PCI-X expansion slot. Works well with PowerMac G5 PCI-X models (8 memory slots). Is not compatible with PowerMac G5 PCI models (4 memory slots). Some customers have reported compatibility issues when using the SeriTek/2SE4 with PowerMac G4 800MHz and 1.25GHz models.

what do they mean by 800mhz model? could be
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_800_dp_qs.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_800_qs.html
for sure  and possibly even:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_867_dp_mdd.html

for 1.25GHz
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1.25_dp_mdd.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1.25_mdd.html

thats alot of models..
unfortunately both of which i own :( (shown in bold)

but of course it says right below this:
Operating Systems Supported    
Quote
    Mac OS X version 10.4.0 or later (works best with 10.4.6 or later)

so here we have it confirmed.. no chance for port multiplication with os9;(
or maybe its just an undocumented thing?? if anyone has this card.. please post!!
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 12:29:27 AM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2014, 12:33:28 AM »
its funny on the page for the card it says:

Quote
SeriTek/2SE4 optimizes performance for up to 5 hard drives per data port by utilizing the advanced bandwidth characteristics of the PCI-X architecture. When 20 high performance hard drives are configured in a RAID array, throughput can reach beyond 700Mb/sec,

can u imagine if it did work, 1 little g4 with 4 x http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-5pm/ ?? lol
the g4 would burst into flames:  8) ;D


Offline DaCat

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2015, 12:30:33 PM »
Seems many us have the same fantasy, the ultimate hot-rodded OS 9 bootable G4, it might make a fun project machine just to claim the world record.

I'd guess that 4 SATA SSDs using software RAID might do the trick along with one of the later video cards, full matched memory and a dual 1.8 or 2.0 processor upgrade, now it is a matter of looking over all the threads here on this subject & combining the best of the results.

I've been using the SeriTek/1SE2 dual external ESATA card with great results on my Quicksilver DP, but after reading the above I see it is 32 bit and upgrading to the 4 port SeriTek/1VE4 might well give a speed boost as it matches the Quicksilver's 64 bit PCI slots. I went with the two port because it was much cheaper at the time, maybe one of those cards will work in my G4 Yikes! and give it a speed boost, but I found copying huge file sets from ESATA to ESATA was averaging about 1 GB/minute which isn't bad.

For the next boost I want to try a SSD in an external ESATA case, I've used 1 & 3 TB Seagate Barracuda's, can't remember if I hit any size limitations but most have lots of partitions, I generally do file copying in Leopard and use the partitioned 1 GB for everyday work in both systems.
G4 Yikes!; (2) G4 Quicksilver DP 1 GHz; Early 2008 MBP 2.5 GHz 17"; MOTU 2408 MkIII; MOTU 828 MkII, MOTU 828 MkIII, Opcode Studio 5 LX; Opcode SVP 4.5.1; MOTU DP 5.5; BIAS Peak Pro 6; (2) Roland VM-C7100 mixers/processors linked; Roland DS-90A monitors; Sony VAIO VGC-RA716GY P4 3.20E GHZ HT with EMU 1212M PCI cards & Emulator X software; Akai S6000; Akai Z8; EMU Proteus MPS+; Yamaha DJ-X; Roland R-8M; misc. Roland Guitar & Bass synths; Roland D-110; Steinberger Spirit guitar; Boss GT-6; Roger Mayer Octavia


Offline MacTron

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2015, 07:38:13 AM »
Great post, many thanks.  8)

Has anyone recently found a cheap but good quality card from China on Ebay or the likes? It seems kind of hard to know if any of these work with OS9 - let alone if they are bootable. So any hints would be much appreciated!  ;)

Examples (untested):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Port-SATA-and-IDE-PCI-Controller-With-RAID-Card-Adapter-/381344027413?hash=item58c9e01315
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-SATA-1-eSATA-1-IDE-RAID-to-PCI-Card-Adapter-Converter-/171559182930?hash=item27f1b96252
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Port-SATA-IDE-HARD-DISC-DVD-PCI-Controller-Expansion-Card-VIA-VT6420-chipset-/131595496677?hash=item1ea3b3ece5
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-VIA-VT6421A-3-SATA-1-Port-IDE-PCI-RAID-Controller-Card-/360529032543?hash=item53f134755f
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Port-Internal-SATA-I-to-PCI-Sil3114-Serial-ATA-Controller-Software-Raid-Card/271265350494
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCI-32bit-7-Port-COMBO-CARD-2xSATA-Serial-ATA-4x-USB-2-0-IDE-Adapter-/151595897256?hash=item234bd1d1a8

I have tested 2 USB 2.0 cards with VIA chips, they worked with OSX but not OS9.

There are really few ones that work with Mac Os 9. Is not about chipset only, but the EEPROM code, It have to be Mac Os 9 compatible.
Non of this will work at all.  :'(
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supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2015, 10:40:09 AM »
i wouldnt buy any of the ones with via chipset personally

but we did have a report of a chinese card that had firmware that had a via chipset but those cards will not have this firmware u can be sure of that


Offline widter

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2015, 02:29:26 AM »
I have found that this one proved to be flash-able to use in a Mac G4. Quality of the card is so-so.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331677428152

I used this guide:
http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/guide-to-flashing-pc-sil3112-sata-cards-for-mac.1690231/

Hope this helps ;-)

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2015, 06:29:03 AM »
I have found that this one proved to be flash-able to use in a Mac G4.
Silicon Image 3112 is flashable for OSX, at least with the weinetech firmware.

Max111 user here converts 3112 cards on OS9 bootable cards at a little cost.
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline widter

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2015, 01:52:03 AM »
I have found that this one proved to be flash-able to use in a Mac G4. Quality of the card is so-so.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331677428152

I used this guide:
http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/guide-to-flashing-pc-sil3112-sata-cards-for-mac.1690231/

Hope this helps ;-)

I thought I should post an update on this: I bought one of these cards a while back and then posted the above. Flashing went well and was remarkably easy. I put the card in a MDD and it is working happily with an SATA HD.

I bought another card from the same seller since. One would think the same scenario would happen, but not so: While flashing is also no problem for this second card, it is creating issues in the 2 Macs I have tried putting it in.
- A Quicksilver won't boot at all with it installed, it wont' even allow a PRAM reset (so it would seem the boot procedure is not working).
- A MDD IS booting with the card installed, but has problems accepting the IDE drives as startup drives. Basically, "Startup Disc" won't see the IDE system folders as valid, and after a reboot (or startup), I get to see the "?" disc symbol for a while every time.

Any thoughts on these strange findings?

Offline widter

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #58 on: November 04, 2015, 11:46:20 PM »
I have interesting news for supernova777 and some others.

It seems that I have successfully reverse-engineered the Seritek firmware to fit on standard 128k EPROMs. This firmware will enable SIL3112 cards to register under OS9 as SCSI cards, making them more compatible than when using the Wiebe firmware.

I have yet to do more testing, I am writing this early. But initial signs are looking good, and since we all love os9...

Please note, this firmware will NOT work under X. Including X would make the firmware too big to fit on a 128k EPROM. (Should it turn out that you need X compatibity later on, you could go back to the Wiebe firmware.)

I will get back to you when my testing is concluded. If it turns out positive, I will upload the firmware. And if you have a PC with a floppy disc drive around, you can then flash your own cards... yes. A PC. ;-)

Stay tuned...

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #59 on: November 05, 2015, 03:32:07 AM »
wow... i was hoping this day would come! is it really true?
u did this by removing the osx code from the firmware? as i suggested might be possible? (dont ask me where or when i said this but i know i did, sometime somewhere)

Offline widter

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #60 on: November 05, 2015, 03:39:45 AM »
wow... i was hoping this day would come! is it really true?
u did this by removing the osx code from the firmware? as i suggested might be possible? (dont ask me where or when i said this but i know i did, sometime somewhere)

Big secret how I did it, supernova, hehe!  ;)

But basically you are right. The firmware was constructed in such that they put in the os9 code first, followed by the osX code. The new firmware I created had to be exactly 128k long, which can be easily done in a HEX editor. The hard part is really understanding the code enough to know where to cut.

As I said, I need to test this more thoroughly. I did see that the card registered perfectly as a SCSI card under 9.2.2, but I have not had time to run speed tests or even reliabity tests. Quicksilvers seem not to like it, but that's hardly news.

Somewhat exiting is that Firmtek lists ATAPI support for the firmware - whether this means you can connect optical drives, I have not tested yet either. It might.

I'll try getting back to the forum asap. If all turns out well, I'll upload a complete package of all you need to conduct the flashing (provided a PC w/ floppy disc).

Thanks for your interest. Your comment acutally was part of the necessary inspriration for me!  ;D

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #61 on: November 05, 2015, 04:46:21 AM »
im pretty sure i have used optical drive via SATA.. on my Tempo Sata Serial card

if u have succeeded in doing this.. its a very big news for our vintage macos9 community.. to be able to easily flash any sil3112 card + use sata in g3/g4 + mac os 9.. this is a huge plus for many people on a budget.. let me be the first to thank you

u have confirmed that they are booting mac os 9?

Offline widter

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #62 on: November 05, 2015, 04:48:13 AM »
im pretty sure i have used optical drive via SATA.. on my Tempo Sata Serial card

Yup, but it seems the Wiebe firmware (that most people use for flashing) is not supporting ATAPI. Hey, you could extract the firmware of your card and share it ;)

supernova777

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #63 on: November 05, 2015, 06:28:32 AM »
im pretty sure i have used optical drive via SATA.. on my Tempo Sata Serial card

Yup, but it seems the Wiebe firmware (that most people use for flashing) is not supporting ATAPI. Hey, you could extract the firmware of your card and share it ;)

no point it uses the larger eeprom.
and the firmware is freely available from seritek to download.
also it was figured out that the seritek firmware includes limited copyright protection code that checks the size + manufacturer type of the eeprom aswell.. not sure if u knew this

its easy enuff to just use a cd connected via ATA..
why are u talking about wiebetech. wiebetech firmware doesnt support os9..
which firmware did u reduce? u said u reduced the seritek originally.. now u are talking about wiebetech? confusing.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #64 on: November 05, 2015, 06:53:04 AM »
WoW!
Great job, thanks. I hope that this firmware will end working well. It will help to a lot of people.
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #65 on: November 14, 2015, 01:55:12 AM »
@ widter: How is this work going?
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Offline widter

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2015, 11:27:02 PM »
Hej, sorry about the late reply. I have been on a business trip.

Honestly, there have been some setbacks. I have now tested several different cards, all of the 10 Dollar price range. While the modified firmware works with some cards, it does not with others. With some cards, Mac OS 9 will find them correctly and System Profiler will show them as a "Firmtek SCSI card", but attached devices will not mount or be unreliable.

I will conduct further investigation into this. Part of the problem is the "copy protection" in Firmteks firmware that only allows for certain EPROM chips to be used by the cards.

I have spoken with a Swedish hardware engineer, it seems that it could be difficult to change the EPROM specifications in the firmware to fit every card out there.

So far: I'm really sorry if I got your hopes up too much. Firmtek did a good job at making this harder than expected.  :P  I will let you know if I come to a sollution that is more promising on a wide scale.

Offline tiousable

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #67 on: August 07, 2016, 03:37:59 PM »
One for the "not working" pile:

Bought from here. I have the Wiebetech firmware on it, and the "9.2.2 Universal" CD seems to identify the card just fine but does not see any disks connected to it - is that a known issue with the Wiebe FW?.

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2016, 07:15:34 AM »
... is that a known issue with the Wiebe FW?.

The Wiebetech firmware doesn't work on Mac Os 9. IIRC

... and this card port layout ( one external and two internal ) won't be compatible with Mac Os 9 firmware, I think.
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Offline tiousable

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2016, 12:54:12 PM »
OK, thanks, I'm going to try the Firmtek 1S2 fw then. Kinda expected this and already ordered the parts earlier (stock prom's too small, and probably is the wrong kind too (dat darn copy protection...)).

Regarding the layout, it's really just two channels, and you have a jumper block to redirect the data lines of one of the internal connectors to the external one. So it's really not as weird as it might look at first glance.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 01:22:56 PM by tiousable »

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2016, 12:34:20 AM »
seritek firmtek are the best solution for mac os 9 users.
or purple sonnet tempo (Which is same thing)

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #71 on: September 24, 2016, 10:44:27 PM »
I have interesting news for supernova777 and some others.

It seems that I have successfully reverse-engineered the Seritek firmware to fit on standard 128k EPROMs. This firmware will enable SIL3112 cards to register under OS9 as SCSI cards, making them more compatible than when using the Wiebe firmware.


it is a shame we have so many users like this.. who come in and then dissappear!!!! widter? what happened to you? you cant drop some serious news like that and then leave without sharing for the benefit of all? ??? ?

Offline geforceg4

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Offline max1zzz

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2016, 02:51:49 PM »
I'm still trying to get my hands on a Mathey Msata-13UMAC as it looks like it uses the via6421a chip, PC cards based on this are both really cheap and really easy to get hold of. Just I have never seen a Mathey Msata-13UMAC for sale anywhere....

Offline geforceg4

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Re: Disk Speed Upgrades (aka The Bootable PCI SATA & SSD thread)
« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2016, 03:05:10 PM »
for those who were reading the thread above.. the user named widter has informed me that he has no intention of making his firmware hack public now or in the future.. so the search continues.. hopefully i wont give up + ill eventually be able to find someone whos capable of backward engineering the firmware or downsizing it to fit a normal/common size rom chip