Author Topic: Mac OS 9.2.2 Memory Limit of 1.5 GB... Some Answers  (Read 22015 times)

Offline Knezzen

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Re: Mac OS 9.2.2 Memory Limit of 1.5 GB... Some Answers
« Reply #150 on: June 14, 2017, 11:44:35 PM »
This is a bit off topic to the thread, but near the mods of the ROM to get the Xserve booting without the hacking.

I would love to see the "OS9 Helper" patches applied as well, so Old World machines could benefit of the universal Mac OS 9.2.2 install.
This would make it truly universal. I'm going through the 9.1 to 9.2.1 to 9.2.2 upgrade procedure myself right now and would love to have something on hand that just works on my PowerBook G3 Kanga and PowerMac 9500 (with a Sonnet G3 upgrade).

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Mac OS 9.2.2 Memory Limit of 1.5 GB... Some Answers
« Reply #151 on: June 15, 2017, 09:24:10 AM »
  One thing I was never certain of - are the modifications applied by OS9 Helper specific to the particular target machine?  I thought that was why you had to process the changes to the Mac OS updaters locally on the target machine.  Also, do these modifications then break compatibility with other machine versions?

  Also mildly off-topic but potentially somewhat related to your request, I wonder if any of the extensive notes on the following webpage would be of use in creating as stable and widely compatible a system as possible?

http://www.sunrisepage.com/computers/macclassic/macos9.htm

  Even the "hybrid" section might yield some useful information.  (I'm not suggesting we automatically take big steps backwards, just consider what works best and avoids file corruption.)

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9.2.2 Memory Limit of 1.5 GB... Some Answers
« Reply #152 on: June 15, 2017, 09:36:08 AM »
 
  Also mildly off-topic but potentially somewhat related to your request, I wonder if any of the extensive notes on the following webpage would be of use in creating as stable and widely compatible a system as possible?

http://www.sunrisepage.com/computers/macclassic/macos9.htm


We have gone over that paper many times... most of it is not applicable, some of it is flawed, however, increasing the memory of the finder is a great suggestion... I thing we have some old threads breaking it down

Offline Knezzen

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Re: Mac OS 9.2.2 Memory Limit of 1.5 GB... Some Answers
« Reply #153 on: June 15, 2017, 09:56:34 AM »
One thing I was never certain of - are the modifications applied by OS9 Helper specific to the particular target machine?  I thought that was why you had to process the changes to the Mac OS updaters locally on the target machine.  Also, do these modifications then break compatibility with other machine versions?

I'm pretty sure it's not machine specific more than that there are different "patches" for NuBus and PCI Old World machines.
When you run OS9 Helper you get to choose if you're installing on a NuBus or PCI PowerMac, so I think they somehow needs to be patched differently. I don't have anything that boots 9.2.2 that isn't the last OS9 capable machine (needing special versions, like the MDD), or unsupported and needs OS9 helper (like the Kanga and 9500). So if anyone has an early TiBook or Pismo that can boot with the original 9.2.2 ROM, I can post the pached files on my Kanga so you can see if it works. If is does, we should incorporate the (PCI) patches to the "universal" Mac OS 9.2.2. I don't think there's any need to incorporate the NuBus patches and I think they are incompatible with the PCI paches since you choose what kind of machine you have (see screenshot).

I think this would be a great addition if any Mac with a PowerPC processor and PCI slots could boot the universal 9.2.2.

About OS9 Helper from the Readme file:
Quote
On the day that Apple released the 9.2.1 update, I posted a messaged to a Macfixit Forum thread asking for anybody who was willing to help work on a crack for this. Scott emailed me back and we stayed up most of the night hacking away with ResEdit and MacsBug. After exchanging 15 or so emails, we had it mostly narrowed down to 3 resources that needed to be added/modified for 9.2.1 to work. Scott nailed the breakthough the next morning, and we were finally able to get 9.2.1 to boot on our Powersurge machines. Hastily, we posted the patch with little testing. It soon became apparent that more work was needed, as drag and drop support was not enabled. A few days later Scott and I narrowed it down to an obscure line of hex that was in a diffent physical address location than it was in 9.1, and the problem was solved. Soon thereafter I returned to college, and Scott faded away as well. But faithful forum posters kby, kenny, and the Toz took up the slack and began making more and more improvements to the patch. They have pretty much done the bulk of the patch work since 9.2.2 was released, and an excellent job they have done. After a while, I got sick of the patch method and decided to make this a little bit more commercially viable and easier to understand. Thus OS9 Helper was born. Over the next year or so I hope to evolve the utility to have more and more functionality.


Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Mac OS 9.2.2 Memory Limit of 1.5 GB... Some Answers
« Reply #154 on: June 15, 2017, 10:05:58 AM »
  Okay, cool.  I'd read that many years ago but it only came to mind now because it came up coincidently from a web search I was doing related to OS9 Helper.  I figured some of it was a bit nuts.  Glad to hear it's been read over by the members though for any useful tidbits.  I agree increasing the default memory allocation to the Finder is a good idea, although the same could be said for many of the third-party apps too.  Most users intending to carry on with OS 9 today likely have plenty of RAM available, certainly considering our recent 'gain'. ;)

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9.2.2 Memory Limit of 1.5 GB... Some Answers
« Reply #155 on: June 15, 2017, 12:07:17 PM »
  I agree increasing the default memory allocation to the Finder is a good idea, although the same could be said for many of the third-party apps too.  Most users intending to carry on with OS 9 today likely have plenty of RAM available, certainly considering our recent 'gain'. ;)

Yes, but the difference being that you cannot simply "CMD-I" and change the memory, you need to resedit the finder, maybe mactron, can attach a modified one for newbies

Offline Daniel

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Re: Mac OS 9.2.2 Memory Limit of 1.5 GB... Some Answers
« Reply #156 on: June 15, 2017, 01:29:58 PM »
The OS9 Helper patches probably are for the System Suitcase rather than the Mac OS ROM file. As far as I know, there are no projects that have reverse-engineered the System Suitcase anywhere near as much as the Mac OS ROM file is disassembled (if there are any projects to understand the Suitcase at all). Sometime after we get the full 2 GB working without side effects we should create a CDG5 for the System Suitcase.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Mac OS 9.2.2 Memory Limit of 1.5 GB... Some Answers
« Reply #157 on: June 15, 2017, 01:43:49 PM »
The OS9 Helper patches probably are for the System Suitcase rather than the Mac OS ROM file.
That's true. The OS9 Helper basically restore some drivers and resources from 9.1, that were deliberately removed from Mac Os 9.2 to disable the 9.2 boot into OldWorld macs.

... maybe mactron, can attach a modified one for newbies

I can attach a couple of resources that should be pasted with ResEdit into System and Finder files... that's all :)

But both topics should be splitted from this thread. IMHO  :)
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Offline macStuff

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Re: Mac OS 9.2.2 Memory Limit of 1.5 GB... Some Answers
« Reply #158 on: August 07, 2017, 02:07:39 PM »
  On a related note, have you seen how freaking dirt-cheap PC133 512MB DIMMs are on eBay now?!?  I just bought 16 of them for USD $3.49 a piece and free shipping direct from China. 

wow that is news to me! that is almost free! can you share the sellers name?? :)

is there anyway of benchmarking specific ram chips ?
i mean to literally test the ram? not just if it works correctly,
but also to test the speed? i know theres different nanosecond times associated with ram?
ie: you could have a few peices of the same rating/size (pc133, 512mb for example)
but some from a specific manufacturer or even a specific batch of chips may perform better? is there anyway to benchmark specific peices of ram?

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Mac OS 9.2.2 Memory Limit of 1.5 GB... Some Answers
« Reply #159 on: August 09, 2017, 02:21:03 PM »
  On a related note, have you seen how freaking dirt-cheap PC133 512MB DIMMs are on eBay now?!?  I just bought 16 of them for USD $3.49 a piece and free shipping direct from China. 

wow that is news to me! that is almost free! can you share the sellers name?? :)

is there anyway of benchmarking specific ram chips ?
i mean to literally test the ram? not just if it works correctly,
but also to test the speed? i know theres different nanosecond times associated with ram?
ie: you could have a few peices of the same rating/size (pc133, 512mb for example)
but some from a specific manufacturer or even a specific batch of chips may perform better? is there anyway to benchmark specific peices of ram?

  There are many different eBay sellers with this RAM at very low cost.  (The seller's name was "access-market".)  I should note that I never received my shipment because the package got destroyed in transit due to a vehicle accident.  I was fully refunded however.  I did get a different shipment of DDR RAM though.  It was almost as cheap.  That seller's name was "ssffkeep".  As expected, the super-picky G4 MDDs and Xserves rejected some of the sticks even though they were all identical - 5 out of 20 sticks.  It cost so little, I hardly care.  The others will go in my 'not-picky' PC motherboards.

  I too would like to know of a decent RAM testing app for Mac PowerPC, OS 9 or OS X.  It would be nice to have a utility that can read the timing chips on the sticks, like is available on PC.  I'm concerned much less about performance than I am about the sticks not causing weird system behavior.  I've been able to determine that RAM was responsible for random finder crashes and system freezes on one machine even though the system never explicitly complained about problem RAM.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9.2.2 Memory Limit of 1.5 GB... Some Answers
« Reply #160 on: August 09, 2017, 07:14:00 PM »
That's true. The OS9 Helper basically restore some drivers and resources from 9.1, that were deliberately removed from Mac Os 9.2 to disable the 9.2 boot into OldWorld macs.

shouldnt that be in our next update for the 922 universal install?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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