OS9 in FW800

[drakepeterdrake]

Hi, I'm trying to put OS9 on a G4 FW800 tower running OS 10.5.8, so I can run Stusio Vision Pro. I downloaded and burned the disk image that DieHard posted. I put in a formatted extra hard drive, etc. When I try to launch the software restore application from the CD, I'm told that Classic is no longer supported. When I do the same in 10.5.8 it won't allow me to access the image of the downloaded CD, it only shows a picture telling me to insert the original apple CD's that came with the FW800. (I don't have them). I'd appreciate any further instructions. Thanks.
Peter

[devils_advisor]

That might be a little bit more complicated.  You either need to run osx 10.4 for classic or you need to manipulate your machine to boot into os9. If you could get your hand on a quicksilver it would be much easier.  First thing you can do is grab a copy of osx tiger (10.4). Install that on a second or empty drive. Then we get you the general os9 image and you have classic running. But in your case we might need to extract the instant daw to drop it onto the disk.

[Protools5LEGuy]

I have to edit my first post 

THERE IS NO NEED TO MODIFY THE FIRMWARE ON MDD FW 800 TO BOOT THEM

You only have to use the version cooked by DieHard and iMic among others (?)

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2143.0

[Protools5LEGuy]

I have sereral OSes on all my G4s, but the DieHard recommendation on using ONLY OS9 should be considered. The infamous btree hard drive fail that can ocurr when you do write OS9 partitions on OSX.

I just try that OSX do not write on OS9 and viceversa.

That said, if you really need to have OS9 and OSX mixed, I would recommend to use separate partitions for every OS, and use another partition to share files between 9&X.

Jaguar, Panther and Tiger can do classic, but TODAY you can boot natively OS9 even on these G4MDD FW800.

You will also need to install OS9 drivers on the drive (OSX utility should let you do that). Or partition the disk, but that is somehow easier on OSX.

[Protools5LEGuy]

Classic is called when you run OS8-9 apps in OSX and that always sucks when compared to native running the apps in OS9.

I use to download things from here booted on OSX (PPC or Intel), share the files via OSX leopard, copy them, and boot to OS9 to install and run the best DAW (on 1999-2004) at hand.

[GaryN]

Hello Peter! Everybody, allow me to introduce Peter, a long time user of all things DAW, MOTU, Logic and SVP from the Yahoo Opcodeusers group.
Welcome to the forum!

When I try to launch the software restore application from the CD, I'm told that Classic is no longer supported.

To clarify: Apple Software Restore is a Mac OS app. Although the procedure is a little more complex, you need to run it in either OS9 or Classic. Since you obviously can't run it in OS9, you have to first install Tiger, which you can run on the FW800. Install it on a separate partition and you can delete it afterwards if desired.

NOTE: Although the best way to avoid b-tree problems on multi-boot machines is to simply not have multiple OS's, I promise you (as a long time user of an MDD with exactly such a foolish bent) you can avoid them by:

A: Keeping OS9 on it's own partition - preferably on it's own drive.
B: Immediately (and I mean IMMEDIATELY) when you next boot Leopard, go to Preferences and deselect your OS9 partition to prevent it from being indexed by Spotlight.
C: Immediately do the same with Time Machine if you're using it. You almost never can successfully restore a crashed OS9 drive with Time Machine anyway - it will mess up all the OS9 permissions and you'll get a restored set of software that you'll be locked out of. You can use CCC or SuperDuper or such to back up OS9.

Failure to do is will, I absolutely guarantee you, soon begin causing repeated freezes, crashes, bombs, and all such nasty OS9 things. 10.5 will write stuff on the OS9 partition, it will cause OS9 to crash, OS9 disk first aid won't work, OSX disc utility will fix it (temporarily) but it will just get worse and worse.
I know this because I learned it all the hard way (and that was before this forum existed to help, unfortunately).

You may also find that moving a file from OSX to OS9 while in OSX may result in your being locked out of that file back in OS9. That is, you'll be able to open it, but unable to actually use it because you won't have permission to write any changes to it. You avoid this by moving files back and forth between them while in OS9 only. This is actually not any hassle at all once you get used to it so you don't forget to move stuff before rebooting.

[devils_advisor]

He is not talking about the daw. He actually wants the os9 cd for unsupported macs to boot os9 on that fw800. Its a boot image. You have to burn it and start the machine of of it.

[GaryN]

That might be a little bit more complicated.  You either need to run osx 10.4 for classic or you need to manipulate your machine to boot into os9. If you could get your hand on a quicksilver it would be much easier.  First thing you can do is grab a copy of osx tiger (10.4). Install that on a second or empty drive. Then we get you the general os9 image and you have classic running. But in your case we might need to extract the instant daw to drop it onto the disk.

To clarify: Apple Software Restore is a Mac OS app. Although the procedure is a little more complex, you need to run it in either OS9 or Classic. Since you obviously can't run it in OS9, you have to first install Tiger, which you can run on the FW800. Install it on a separate partition and you can delete it afterwards if desired.

Aren't we saying the same thing here?

[Protools5LEGuy]

Aren't we saying the same thing here?

He asked for classic on Leopard. Advisor told to go tiger and to

You either need to run osx 10.4 for classic or you need to manipulate your machine to boot into os9.

I went panic thinking drakepeterdrake could Flash the firmware as were the early method now not recommended.

Then I tried to explain that classis is << than native OS9. I  went oftopic on my dowloads methods and then you came in. We simpatize with classic users, but we beg every PM G4 user to test the real thing. Then, they realize all the NeXT step / OSX thing is more for Intel/G5s than for G3s and G4s, even when OSXPPC is perfectly capable of "modern" stuff on Tiger and Leo on G3/4s

[Protools5LEGuy]

Some of us want to explain how we did.

I started on Tiger or Panther restoring the DVD for Leo on a partition, installing it later. Then dowloaded and drag droped over Leo a minimal MacOS9 for emergencies. There dropped all instant DAW pieces and ASR and then just like in the videos advisor made, my only dif is I never used a CD/DVD, just images.

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2843.0

[youtube]eVj-VKRZ4gw[/youtube]
[youtube]v7pxmPVIB3E[/youtube]

 Well, I only used DVD for Tiger, the rest were from 7200rpm drive to 7200rpm drive. I mean, It was QUICK to restore OSX Leo from a harddrive, and quick make instant from one HD to other HD

[Protools5LEGuy]

Probably, on FW800 you have to copy the modified ROM to the instant DAW drive to work on the latest PowerMacs

[DieHard]

Hi, I'm trying to put OS9 on a G4 FW800 tower running OS 10.5.8, so I can run Stusio Vision Pro. I downloaded and burned the disk image that DieHard posted. I put in a formatted extra hard drive, etc. When I try to launch the software restore application from the CD, I'm told that Classic is no longer supported. When I do the same in 10.5.8 it won't allow me to access the image of the downloaded CD, it only shows a picture telling me to insert the original apple CD's that came with the FW800. (I don't have them). I'd appreciate any further instructions. Thanks.
Peter

Hi Peter,
To break this into steps down... and this is just an opinion...
Step1: Down load burn the "Unsupported Universal Install" since I am unsure which disk image you burned
Found here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2143.0
Step 2: Disconnect your primary drive, boot to CD, and Install this version on your "extra" drive that you mentioned
Step 3: Now with your working OS9 only FW800, install Studio Vision Pro
Step 4: Re-connect your primary HD and Dual Boot by holding 'alt" upon startup

Optional:
If you need "Classic Mode" from OSX, as explained, this cannot be done with 10.5, so you can now optionally install Tiger 10.4, WITHOUT REFORMATTING THE PARTITION, on the extra drive that currently has OS 9 and Studio Vision; this should enable you to run OS 9 apps in Classic mode and still boot directly to OS 9; however, we always recommend against running Audio/MIDI apps in classic mode due to hardware driver limitations. DAW apps are not well suited for Classic mode and may not function at all since virtual machines, in general, do not map functions to the "real" hardware correctly.

The only variable untested with Tiger is whether of not it recognizes the modified OS9 ROM file as a valid classic 9.2.2 install, Simply select the preferences in OS X and tell it where the classic install folder is, and hopefully is will see it as valid... let us know.  If not, then you can always install Tiger and then use the "Drag OS9" version to be used for classic:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1859.0
But be aware that this version will NOT let you boot into OS9 directly, On a FW800 it can only be used for Classic Mode Only

[Protools5LEGuy]

Dropping modified MacROM can help to convert a "normal" OS9 install in a FW800?

Instant DAW has the modified rom or the last OS9 FW400 MDD one?

[Protools5LEGuy]

You may also find that moving a file from OSX to OS9 while in OSX may result in your being locked out of that file back in OS9. That is, you'll be able to open it, but unable to actually use it because you won't have permission to write any changes to it. You avoid this by moving files back and forth between them while in OS9 only. This is actually not any hassle at all once you get used to it so you don't forget to move stuff before rebooting.

Downloads, normally do not have to be "used", just expand them. I never had a trouble expanding hqx.bin or sit.bin that "came" from OSX if I expand them on OS9

[MacOS9Lives.com]

Instant DAW has the modified rom or the last OS9 FW400 MDD one?

It has the FW400 ROM, but can easily be changed by copying the Modified ROM before booting.

[GaryN]

To clarify: Apple Software Restore is a Mac OS app. Although the procedure is a little more complex, you need to run it in either OS9 or Classic. Since you obviously can't run it in OS9, you have to first install Tiger, which you can run on the FW800. Install it on a separate partition and you can delete it afterwards if desired.

OK… I apologize for causing confusion here. I read the first post from Devil's Advisor and agreed with it. Having never actually needed to use the Unsupported Machine .iso, I didn't realize is is a bootable disk image, even on unsupported machines - again, my bad, very sorry.

The rest of what I said though, is accurate.

You may also find that moving a file from OSX to OS9 while in OSX may result in your being locked out of that file back in OS9. That is, you'll be able to open it, but unable to actually use it because you won't have permission to write any changes to it. You avoid this by moving files back and forth between them while in OS9 only. This is actually not any hassle at all once you get used to it so you don't forget to move stuff before rebooting.

All of this refers only to copying files back and forth between partitions / OS's on a dual or multi-boot machine - nothing to do with downloads.
For example, I will work with files in StudioVision in OS9 and occasionally send them over to OSX where I have more advanced editing apps using, say, Audio Units plug-ins… then back to OS9.

The short rebooting time is just right to stretch and go to the little boy's room.

[geforceg4]

too bad drakepeterdrake never returned ..
doesnt look like he was able to accomplish his boot

[GaryN]

You can always go over to Yahoo and ask him…

[IIO]

he probably solved it much faster than some here thought.

normally one year is enough time to find out that the OS9 harddisk driver is the missing part on a fw-800.