Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?

[MacTron]

Update:
I have patched the sawtooth again, and it is working OK. I have applied only the 7457/7447/7448 enabler patch, not the NVRAM patch for enabling Mac Os 9 booting, because isn't needed with this ROM !!
... so the Sawtooth can work with any G4 CPU from now on, without worrying about OF patches (once the first one is applied) ...

I have checked the PVR and it is 80010201  ¿?

So once the firmware is patched, the 7447/7448 become 7445_v2.1 or 7455_v2.1, even in the OpenFirmware.

[nanopico]

Update:
I have patched the sawtooth again, and it is working OK. I have applied only the 7457/7447/7448 enabler patch, not the NVRAM patch for enabling Mac Os 9 booting, because isn't needed with this ROM !!
... so the Sawtooth can work with any G4 CPU from now on, without worrying about OF patches (once the first one is applied) ...

I have checked the PVR and it is 80010201  ¿?

So once the firmware is patched, the 7447/7448 become 7445_v2.1 or 7455_v2.1, even in the OpenFirmware.

Interesting.  Would you be able to provide the enabler patch you applied.  Maybe I can integrate that into things, unless it is purely a hardware type patch.

[MacTron]

The patch is applied booting with the official NewerTech "Firmware Enabler CD" .
I have posted it in other occasions, I'll try to find it.

What I don't understand is why they have to patch both  the firmware and the NVRAM...

[MacTron]

The patch is applied booting with the official NewerTech "Firmware Enabler CD" .
I have posted it in other occasions, I'll try to find it.

Here it is:
https://www.adrive.com/public/PVNy3F/NewerTech.toast.sit

[nanopico]

The patch is applied booting with the official NewerTech "Firmware Enabler CD" .
I have posted it in other occasions, I'll try to find it.

What I don't understand is why they have to patch both  the firmware and the NVRAM...

Is this patch needed for running OS X with that CPU as well?

[MacOS Plus]

Maybe here we have a misunderstanding. I know my english is awful.
The 7448 upgraded Sawtooth was working until I tried the nano pico "automatic" ROM, previously disabling all the Open Firmware patches.
Once I'll re-patch the system, I will check the 7448 PVR.

  Ah, sorry.  I didn't know you had it working before you messed with it.  That's good to know you have a fully-working platform under normal circumstances.

Update:
I have patched the sawtooth again, and it is working OK. I have applied only the 7457/7447/7448 enabler patch, not the NVRAM patch for enabling Mac Os 9 booting, because isn't needed with this ROM !!
... so the Sawtooth can work with any G4 CPU from now on, without worrying about OF patches (once the first one is applied) ...

I have checked the PVR and it is 80010201  ¿?

So once the firmware is patched, the 7447/7448 become 7445_v2.1 or 7455_v2.1, even in the OpenFirmware.

  Now that is incredibly interesting!  I think you've stumbled upon some really useful information.  Anything we can use to simplify the setup of the accelerated systems is priceless, especially if it helps with the "9.3" project.  The less we have to screw around with the hidden low-level workings of the hardware, the better.

  While I get the general idea, I'd really like to know exactly what modifications each upgrade CPU manufacturer's software are making to the system.  Is there any possibility of extracting the scripts or commands from these applications in order to understand fully what they are performing?  If we can use this information in some way within the ROM file or otherwise it would be fantastic because it would greatly simplify working with setting up such systems.

The patch is applied booting with the official NewerTech "Firmware Enabler CD" .
I have posted it in other occasions, I'll try to find it.

What I don't understand is why they have to patch both  the firmware and the NVRAM...

Is this patch needed for running OS X with that CPU as well?

  The install software for my Giga Designs CPU runs under OSX.  It has separate functions for enabling OSX support and for enabling OS9.x support.

[MacTron]

  The install software for my Giga Designs CPU runs under OSX.  It has separate functions for enabling OSX support and for enabling OS9.x support.

Is this patch needed for running OS X with that CPU as well?

The NewerTech Firmware Enabler CD contains a 32k NewerTech ROM (written by Terry Greeniaus) that can boot the Mac and apply the patches. If you open this ROM with an hexadecimal editor you can examine the NVRAM scripts and other stuff.

After boot, a  screen will appear and you will see the following:

Code: [Select]

-----------------------------------------------------
NewerTech 7457/7447A/7448 Enabler 3.1b5
Copyright (c) 2003-06 by Newer Technology, Inc. All rights
Reserved.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Mapping flash and mirroring in RAM . . .
Identifying flash. . .
Identified Micron B1 Bottom flash.
Validating flash images. . .
Identifying which areas of ROM need to be patched.
Identifying which patches have been installed.
Please select an option from the following menu:
1. Apply 7457/7447A/7448 enabler patch (7457/7447A/7448 CPUs will
not boot).
2. Apply PLL patch (Apple System Profiler should report correct CPU
speeds).
3. Apply L3CR extended ratios patch (L3 cache ratios above 6:1 will
work).
4. Apply thermal fan control patch (Fan will turn on only when
necessary).
5. Apply all patches
6. Set up NVRAM for booting into Mac OS 9.
7. Set up NVRAM for booting into Mac OS X.
8. Shut down.>

[nanopico]

After boot, a  screen will appear and you will see the following:

Code: [Select]

-----------------------------------------------------
NewerTech 7457/7447A/7448 Enabler 3.1b5
Copyright (c) 2003-06 by Newer Technology, Inc. All rights
Reserved.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Mapping flash and mirroring in RAM . . .
Identifying flash. . .
Identified Micron B1 Bottom flash.
Validating flash images. . .
Identifying which areas of ROM need to be patched.
Identifying which patches have been installed.
Please select an option from the following menu:
1. Apply 7457/7447A/7448 enabler patch (7457/7447A/7448 CPUs will
not boot).
2. Apply PLL patch (Apple System Profiler should report correct CPU
speeds).
3. Apply L3CR extended ratios patch (L3 cache ratios above 6:1 will
work).
4. Apply thermal fan control patch (Fan will turn on only when
necessary).
5. Apply all patches
6. Set up NVRAM for booting into Mac OS 9.
7. Set up NVRAM for booting into Mac OS X.
8. Shut down.>

Based on that output it I might assume you have to run this installer/patcher with the old cpu in place and after running this you put the upgrade cpu in? Is that correct or can this all be done with the new one in place?

[MacTron]

Based on that output it I might assume you have to run this installer/patcher with the old cpu in place and after running this you put the upgrade cpu in?

Yes, That's it.

Is that correct or can this all be done with the new one in place?

If you install the CPU upgrade  (7448/7447) without previously applied the 1# patch at least. The Mac don't boot at all. No startup chime, (nor Open Firmware of course)

[nanopico]

Based on that output it I might assume you have to run this installer/patcher with the old cpu in place and after running this you put the upgrade cpu in?

Yes, That's it.

Is that correct or can this all be done with the new one in place?

If you install the CPU upgrade  (7448/7447) without previously applied the 1# patch at least. The Mac don't boot at all. No startup chime, (nor Open Firmware of course)

I looked into it more and the firmware patch I believe will always be required due to it being a boot rom patch, but the nvram patch would no longer be necessary.

[MacOS Plus]

I looked into it more and the firmware patch I believe will always be required due to it being a boot rom patch, but the nvram patch would no longer be necessary.

  The important thing is that the volatile part of the equation would be removed.  I always dreaded having to swap the original CPU back into my Quicksilver if something ever went wrong with the PRAM/NVRAM coding.  First problem would have been, I don't know what the actual change was for my upgrade CPU even if I could do it manually in Open Firmware.  Second problem, I don't even know where I stashed my original QS CPU module now!  At least if I move this system to OS9 (from 10.4/10.5) I won't have to be concerned about the ramifications of resetting PRAM/NVRAM due to any other problems, or ending up with a dead PRAM battery while the system is off.

[nanopico]

In our quest to make all this happen, I've put together some data.  Not exactly anything new.  This can all be found through tech notes from Apple over the years.
Here is a page identifying as many of the G3 and G4 computers that I could find data for and what custom chips they used.  Mainly the PMU, North Bridge, South Bridge, Firewire, USB and Audio.
It may not be 100% accurate, but it should be pretty close.
This will help at least identify if the chips on a computer will be supported or not. It's a good start to figuring out what the actual differences are and what we might need to update to get these machines booting.
I've left off the video cards on these as those aren't custom chips from Apple. I may add those in at a later date.

https://github.com/elliotnunn/cdg5/wiki/Custom-IC-Chips-Used-in-G3's-and-G4's

[MacTron]

Thanks. It's a really useful and great amount of info. I have created an excel file for my self, to easy sorting this data. I have attached it, in case someone needs it in this way.

[nanopico]

I'm planing to add  some details about what level of OS 9 support is officially supported by Apple and what level we have been able to achieve through all the efforts made so far.
I'm also planing on documenting each of those chips used with as much info as I can find.

[DieHard]

I'm planing to add  some details about what level of OS 9 support is officially supported by Apple and what level we have been able to achieve through all the efforts made so far.  I'm also planing on documenting each of those chips used with as much info as I can find.

It is amazing how far all this research has gone already !   I will be resurrecting a broken Apple PowerBook G4 1.0 17" (Al) M8793LL/A (PowerBook5,1) that came in yesterday for eWaste and finally be able to test the "Easy" Install for unsupported Macs.  Life is Good   Thanks for all the hard work on expanding (iMic's and others) ideas even further.

[nanopico]

BIG HUGE UPDATE!!!!!!!! (REALLY WANT TO INSERT CURSE WORDS TO DEMONSTRATE MY EXCITEMENT BUT THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE BAD SO I WILL JUST SHOUT).

Ok I got that out of my system.

Discovered a bunch of things this evening.
Trojan's success with his iMac got me thinking. (see here http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1173.msg20788.html#msg20788)

The sound didn't work right once he got it booted.
And I believe this has been an issue with some PowerBooks too?
So I turned on my iBook G4.  This is the very last model they made before the switch to Intel.
I have never gotten a successful boot on this thing to the desktop it would always freeze. I never really dug into why until tonight.
So I booted it up let it freeze and dropped into macsbug.  It was stuck in and endless loop trying to load up the sound device and sound manager stuff.  Just keep looping and looping and looping. Ok you get the point.
So now I'm think okay builtin sound cards cause all sorts of interesting problems.
So into open firmware I go. Find the builtin sound node and check out the properties. There is a compatible property but it is empty.  I have learned that the compatible property plays a huge part in identifying hardware along with the device_type property.
So me being me I put screamer into the compatible property as I know that OS 9 likes the screamer chip and knows about. I have no clue if the iBook is actually compatible, but hey why not try.
Now the cool part.  Successful boot to the desktop!!!!!!!  Of course absolutely nothing works since i have no extensions what so ever.  Like literally I manual copied the ROM and the system folder and nothing else at all.
So now I will add the extensions in and see what works and what doesn't.
Now how to work around this so you don't have to go to open firmware to enter properties on devices way down in the device tree that won't be the same for each machine is next. But there we go. 

Moving on now.  I've been digging through just about ever freak'n resource in the System file.
I've found the references for the Process Manager that lists offsets for it's location. And I think what might be the resources for the heap size (but i'm only about 20% confident of that one).  Only thing is I haven't found the chunk of data that those offsets apply to yet.  So still digging.

There are so many cross-references in the various resource types that it's very hard to keep track of.

Some more details on the all in one chip intrepid!  The north bridge in it is Uni-North and the south bridge/io controller is Keylargo.  Just in case any one is wondering.

Quick summary, iBook G4 (last model ever made) boots 9.
Headway on the process manager and 1.5 GB limit made.
Small details of the intrepid chip.

Enjoy.

[DieHard]

WOW !  You just added another model to the list !

I know you are very busy, but when time permits, can you make a "Step by step" or "How to" guide for that model even if it relies on OF commands ?  we should re-post this info at https://www.thinkclassic.org/ and let iMic know

[nanopico]

WOW !  You just added another model to the list !

I know you are very busy, but when time permits, can you make a "Step by step" or "How to" guide for that model even if it relies on OF commands ?  we should re-post this info at https://www.thinkclassic.org/ and let iMic know

No problem. I have a funny feeling that any G4's that are not working will work with this fix with the exception of the mini and the xserve.  I could be completely wrong though.
There are three things.
1. You need to use the ROM that I created as that will properly handle CPU version change.  If you are booting from one of the cd's you won't have that ROM so it won't work.  You will need to manually do the cpu version adjustment.

CPU Version fix ( This has been posted other places, but I'll put it here so it's in one spot)

Code: [Select]

dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0

80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property

The other fixes to get booting.

Code: [Select]

dev /pci@F2000000/mac-io/i2s/i2s-a

" screamer" encode-string " compatible" property

device-end

" /" select-dev

0 " graphic-options" get-my-property 2drop !

unselect
The last bit is to fix the graphic mirroring issues with small screen stuff since there are no drivers or hacked drivers for the 9200 in these machines. 

Then one of the following options depending on how your are booting
Hard Disk

Code: [Select]

boot hd:,\\:tbxi
CD

Code: [Select]

boot cd:,\\:tbxi

The trackpad is incredibly slow.
Sound will not work at all propably as it is not an actual screamer chip, but I am working on that and you can at least boot.

Keep in mind I have not tested many extensions so some extensions may cause issues, hangs or crashes.

I'm trying to post this on think classic, but I forgot my password there, and I haven't got my reset e-mail yet as I was going to put this up there too.

Overall this is a pretty peppy machine once it is running.

[mrhappy]

FANTASTIC work!!

[nanopico]

Booting from the Unsupported G4 disk will probably hang.  The ATI extensions cause a hard lock up where you can't even drop into a debugger which is triggered by a hardware interrupt.
You will have to set the iBook into target disk mode and install everything to the disk and make sure no ATI extensions (this includes the OpenGL and Quicktime ATI extensions).  Other than that so far it looks like almost all the common extensions that would come with a standard install are not causing issue.