Author Topic: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?  (Read 149772 times)

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2015, 11:35:55 PM »
Also, developing a driver for those cheaps chinese USB to serial things could help the MIDI old serial stuff via RS232 instead of the $$$ route can help the forum

http://es.eachbuyer.com/usb-to-rs232-serial-9-pin-db9-cable-adapter-convertor-p3402.html?currency=EUR&from=pla&gclid=CPm30NetiskCFWoJwwodLLMF_g

But don´t take this as the first on the list. Any advance giving back even a bit of  memory to the user would be AWESOME.

We should find what is common between OS9 and Panther to port graphics drivers. iMic from ThinkClassic put some light with his experiments on his iBook G4 and a iMacG4.
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

supernova777

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2015, 11:38:20 PM »
this is an oxymoron.. because. the usb technology itself would take away from the timing benefit of using serial...
while if it could work.. with a new driver.. it would enable it to work yes.. but not as well as a true serial connection..
the serial uart chip processing is superior for this type of data transmission!!!

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2015, 11:55:16 PM »
Anyway, my first request for an 9.3 will be to implement the IP - midi rendezvous thing present since tiger to have networked machines midi connected via lan instead of plain midi cables as I do today.

A stronger OMS 2.3.9 ? Or a better FreeMIDI?

I can only see things from my perspective as DAW user.

Maybe even a flash hacked to report as actual (like in OSX PPC) could help some users willing to run desktop sites instead of mobiles with classilla or IE.

Trying to add too many things to Classic OS were too much for ALL Apple Inc. See Copland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copland_%28operating_system%29 .It was the bed for Jobs return to Apple, as most of the new features were present on NeXT OS
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 12:17:01 AM by Protools5LEGuy »
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline nanopico

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2015, 05:22:25 AM »
Just an FYI on the 2GB/512mb finder thing.
I stated that the finder was considered part of the system and was in the lower parts of ram. 
I hadn't validated that yet, but the source I found that from is just wrong.
The actual apple documents relating to this do say the rom, toolbox and some extensions sit in the lower part of ram but mentions nothing of the finder. 
The finder is sitting at the top part of ram.  I will look into this more on the systems I have with 2 GB, but on a system with 320 MB the ram layout from the top down was Control Panels, Some extensions, Control Strip Modules then the Finder, so it's not even sitting right at the top.
The rom, toolbox and system extensions were in fact at the bottom of ram. 
The process manager, which acts as the loader/linker/launcher occupies all remains ram and it allocates the ram to applications as they launch.
This is still interesting in that if the machine with 2 GB lays out the same it still means that the system can address the memory some what properly. 

There are two places the wasted space could be allocated. 
1. in the process manager when it launches the Finder
2. In the finder after it launches it grows it's heap (I think this is less likely but still possible).

If any one else has theories on this let me know.

Additionally the North bridge drivers in resource fork of the rom appear to be completely useless.  I completely removed those resources and was still able to boot a system.  I still need to test this on a few other systems as it's possible they are only needed on certain systems.
So I now know one place the north bridge drivers aren't.

Any light over the files missing on the wayback machine? You said you had something not covered yet. My sources are here http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1931.0
I had found someone else had downloaded and mirrored the content as well but got it from an earlier point in time so the missing pages where on that site.  I will go through my notes to find the site.  I have the file on one of my drives here, I'll find it again if anyone is interested.

this is an oxymoron.. because. the usb technology itself would take away from the timing benefit of using serial...
while if it could work.. with a new driver.. it would enable it to work yes.. but not as well as a true serial connection..
the serial uart chip processing is superior for this type of data transmission!!!

Agreed.  I have a usb to serial RS232  adapter that has drivers for OS 9 and the performance really isn't very good.

Anyway, my first request for an 9.3 will be to implement the IP - midi rendezvous thing present since tiger to have networked machines midi connected via lan instead of plain midi cables as I do today.

A stronger OMS 2.3.9 ? Or a better FreeMIDI?

I can only see things from my perspective as DAW user.

Maybe even a flash hacked to report as actual (like in OSX PPC) could help some users willing to run desktop sites instead of mobiles with classilla or IE.

Trying to add too many things to Classic OS were too much for ALL Apple Inc. See Copland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copland_%28operating_system%29 .It was the bed for Jobs return to Apple, as most of the new features were present on NeXT OS

I also do look at it from a DAW perspective, as well as can I do this sort of thing.  The hack for flash could be interesting.  I'm curious though if it's worth it as most flash content at this point is requiring a version of flash that is fairly new, and all though you can trick it into working, I've found the performance on to be terrible, but that is just the experience i have had.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, or break it so you can fix it!

Offline nanopico

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2015, 07:32:22 AM »
Any light over the files missing on the wayback machine? You said you had something not covered yet. My sources are here http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1931.0

I have two drives I keep all my documents I've amassed for this project.  Apparently one bit the dust and it had some of this stuff on it.
I found most of it through google so I'll try to pull it up.

One thing I hadn't seen posted is this.
https://www.hackcanada.com/whacked/index.html
(Warning some of the links on that site are NSFW)

Specifically this is a tutorial on cracking.  More useful as a tutorial on disassembling.
https://www.hackcanada.com/whacked/Cracking/BasicMacCracking_1-4.sit.bin

Other documents I have are Inside Macintosh.
2 versions.  One from macos8 era and one with updates for OS 9.

I've also got the documentation on the Book E ISA for Power PC and the documents outline the ISA for basic PowerPC functionality.
I've also downloaded the developer.apple.com archive that as been referenced around here.  I've found the most useful stuff in the legacy folder in that.

For anyone wanting to learn more about Forth and Open Firmware
http://www.netneurotic.de/mac/openfirmware.html

Most of what I am using as far as documentation is Inside Macintosh, the Book E ISA spec and output from Macsbug.

Most other documents/info I'm finding is too old (like System 7 era) or inaccurate.
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2015, 09:15:17 AM »
Anyway, my first request for an 9.3 will be to implement the IP - midi rendezvous thing present since tiger to have networked machines midi connected via lan instead of plain midi cables as I do today.

Quote
A stronger OMS 2.3.9 ? Or a better FreeMIDI?

Quote
Maybe even a flash hacked to report as actual (like in OSX PPC) could help some users willing to run desktop sites instead of mobiles with classilla or IE.

Even Though these can be interesting things, nothing has to do with a Operating System by it self.
You should post a separate post for each one. Maybe you can achieve some answers ...  ;)

Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2015, 10:34:17 AM »
OK. Focus on NanopicoOS 9.3

Can we ask for things from Copland?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copland_%28operating_system%29

Quote
Following Hancock's plan, development of System 7.5 continued, with a number of technologies originally slated for Copland being incorporated into the base OS. Apple embarked on a buying campaign, acquiring the rights to various third-party system enhancements and integrating them into the OS. The Extensions Manager, hierarchical Apple menu, collapsing windows, the menu bar clock, sticky notes — all were developed outside of Apple. Stability and performance were improved by Mac OS 7.6, which dropped the "System" moniker.[37] Eventually, many features developed for Copland, including the new Finder and support for themes (the default Platinum was the only theme included) were rolled into Mac OS 7.7, which was rebranded as Mac OS 8.

With the return of Jobs, this rebranding also allowed Apple to exploit a legal loophole to terminate third-party manufacturers' licenses to System 7 and effectively shut down the Macintosh clone market.[38] Later, Mac OS 8.1 finally added the new filesystem and Mac OS 8.6 updated the nanokernel to handle preemptive tasks. Its interface was Multiprocessing Services 2.x and later, but there was still no process separation and the system still used cooperative multitasking between processes. Even a process that was Multiprocessing Services-aware still had a portion that ran in the blue box, a task that also ran all single-threaded programs (and the only task that could run 68k code).

The Rhapsody project was cancelled after several developer preview releases, support for running on non-Macintosh platforms was dropped, and it was eventually released as Mac OS X Server 1.0. In 2001 this foundation was coupled to the Carbon library and Aqua user interface to form the modern Mac OS X product. Prior to the Intel release of Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger), Mac OS X also used the 'rootless blue box' concept in the form of Classic to run applications written for older versions of Mac OS. A number of features originally seen in Copland demos, including its advanced Find command, built-in Internet browser, "piles" of folders and support for video-conferencing, have reappeared in recent releases of Mac OS X as Spotlight, Safari, Stacks, and iChat AV, respectively, although the implementation and user interface for each feature is completely different.

Some Copland specs were in Tiger or Panther or Jaguar. Even some on 9.2.2
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline nanopico

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2015, 10:41:59 AM »
Anyway, my first request for an 9.3 will be to implement the IP - midi rendezvous thing present since tiger to have networked machines midi connected via lan instead of plain midi cables as I do today.

Quote
A stronger OMS 2.3.9 ? Or a better FreeMIDI?

Quote
Maybe even a flash hacked to report as actual (like in OSX PPC) could help some users willing to run desktop sites instead of mobiles with classilla or IE.

Even Though these can be interesting things, nothing has to do with a Operating System by it self.
You should post a separate post for each one. Maybe you can achieve some answers ...  ;)

Dude I was actually just thinking about this same thing this morning.  I will definitely take this suggestion.  I'll also make a post on outline what is OS and what is not.  I'm willing to work on both, but I don't have much free time with a family, and a full time job as a Sr Developer (which always seems to take much more than 40 hrs/week) so I'll have to see where the interests lay from users to decide where I'll put my efforts.  What do you think of the idea of a poll with some OS features and a separate one for non-os related requests?

OK. Focus on NanopicoOS 9.3

Can we ask for things from Copland?

Yes, but I'm still in an investigative mode to figure out the best way to implement various things and where some of the internal things are.
At this point I'm open to all requests as long as everyone understand that they might not all be done. And as MacTron pointed out, some of these are not OS, but would be nice.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, or break it so you can fix it!

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2015, 10:56:10 AM »
  What do you think of the idea of a poll with some OS features and a separate one for non-os related requests?


Great! I love polls! Maybe it would be clearer if we all know what is Mac OS 9.2.2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_9

Quote
Apple billed Mac OS 9 as including "50 New Features" and heavily marketed its Sherlock 2 software, which introduced a 'channels' feature for searching different online resources and introduced a QuickTime-like metallic appearance. Mac OS 9 also featured integrated support for Apple’s suite of Internet services known as iTools (later re-branded as .Mac, then MobileMe, which was replaced by iCloud) and included improved TCP/IP functionality with Open Transport 2.5.

Other features new to Mac OS 9 include:[5]

    Integrated support for multiple user accounts without using At Ease.
    Support for voice login through VoicePrint passwords.
    Keychain, a feature allowing users to save passwords and textual data encrypted in protected keychains.
    A Software Update control panel for automatic download and installation of Apple system software updates.
    A redesigned Sound control panel and support for USB audio.
    Speakable Items 2.0, also known as PlainTalk, featuring improved speech synthesis and recognition along with AppleScript integration.[6]
    Improved font management through FontSync.
    Remote Access Personal Server 3.5, including support for TCP/IP clients over Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP).
    An updated version of AppleScript with support for TCP/IP.
    Personal File Sharing over TCP/IP.
    USB Printer Sharing, a control panel allowing certain USB printers to be shared across a TCP/IP network.
    128-bit file encryption in the Finder.
    Support for files larger than 2 GB.
    Unix volume support.
    CD Burning in the Finder (introduced in Mac OS 9.1).
    Addition of a 'Window' menu to the Finder (introduced in Mac OS 9.1)

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_9#Version_history
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline nanopico

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2015, 10:59:36 AM »
  What do you think of the idea of a poll with some OS features and a separate one for non-os related requests?


Great! I love polls! Maybe it would be clearer if we all know what is Mac OS 9.2.2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_9

Quote
Apple billed Mac OS 9 as including "50 New Features" and heavily marketed its Sherlock 2 software, which introduced a 'channels' feature for searching different online resources and introduced a QuickTime-like metallic appearance. Mac OS 9 also featured integrated support for Apple’s suite of Internet services known as iTools (later re-branded as .Mac, then MobileMe, which was replaced by iCloud) and included improved TCP/IP functionality with Open Transport 2.5.

Other features new to Mac OS 9 include:[5]

    Integrated support for multiple user accounts without using At Ease.
    Support for voice login through VoicePrint passwords.
    Keychain, a feature allowing users to save passwords and textual data encrypted in protected keychains.
    A Software Update control panel for automatic download and installation of Apple system software updates.
    A redesigned Sound control panel and support for USB audio.
    Speakable Items 2.0, also known as PlainTalk, featuring improved speech synthesis and recognition along with AppleScript integration.[6]
    Improved font management through FontSync.
    Remote Access Personal Server 3.5, including support for TCP/IP clients over Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP).
    An updated version of AppleScript with support for TCP/IP.
    Personal File Sharing over TCP/IP.
    USB Printer Sharing, a control panel allowing certain USB printers to be shared across a TCP/IP network.
    128-bit file encryption in the Finder.
    Support for files larger than 2 GB.
    Unix volume support.
    CD Burning in the Finder (introduced in Mac OS 9.1).
    Addition of a 'Window' menu to the Finder (introduced in Mac OS 9.1)

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_9#Version_history

Thanks.  I'm going to copy that over to the OS Development Request thread.

All requests should go to these threads now.
OS Level Requests
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2837.msg17840;

Non-OS, All Other Requests
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2838.msg17842;
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Offline Front 424

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2015, 09:07:59 PM »
I haven't really given an update as I don't have any thing to show at this point.

Au contraire!  Seems as if you have been busy figuring out a lot of things, that's definitely something to show.

After nearly 2 months of silence on this thread, my simple post provoked a flurry of new discussion I was surprised to see!

Very interesting, all of this.  I totally wish I could assist in this project.

Interesting also to see the two new threads about features/requests.  This a sign of progress, I do declare!  ;)

My very best to nanopico and all involved in this ambitious undertaking, as well as the forum in general.

Offline iMic

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2015, 08:39:43 PM »
Most of the development work I produced was from trial and error, seeing what would boot a system and what would cause it to fail. From what I can see in Nanopico's work they have a much better grasp of what needs to be done and where to find it in the system. Perhaps we may actually see some progress provided we focus on a few select areas to start with instead of attempting to cover all bases at once.

I had considered reopening this project and doing some additional work on it, but it was reaching the limits of my knowledge the last time I worked on it, so it's great to see someone more skilled working on this ongoing project as well.

Offline Front 424

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #52 on: December 01, 2015, 01:27:35 AM »
iMic, me agrees with you!
Nanopico definitely has some low-level skills.  Machine-level that is!  ;D 
At least he is figuring some stuff out.  Too bad there aren't more people who could give him the assistance needed with that kind of knowledge.  Not exactly an easy job for one person.

I've been thinking that there must be some old school PPC mac programmers floating around somewhere that could at least give some advice on the inner OS and processor specific workings.  Anyone else thought that?  I know they must be out there.

Offline nanopico

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #53 on: December 01, 2015, 06:18:25 AM »
iMic, me agrees with you!
Nanopico definitely has some low-level skills.  Machine-level that is!  ;D 
At least he is figuring some stuff out.  Too bad there aren't more people who could give him the assistance needed with that kind of knowledge.  Not exactly an easy job for one person.

I've been thinking that there must be some old school PPC mac programmers floating around somewhere that could at least give some advice on the inner OS and processor specific workings.  Anyone else thought that?  I know they must be out there.

iMic, me agrees with you!
Nanopico definitely has some low-level skills.  Machine-level that is!  ;D 
At least he is figuring some stuff out.  Too bad there aren't more people who could give him the assistance needed with that kind of knowledge.  Not exactly an easy job for one person.

I've been thinking that there must be some old school PPC mac programmers floating around somewhere that could at least give some advice on the inner OS and processor specific workings.  Anyone else thought that?  I know they must be out there.

Thanks for the kind words.  Definitely feeling the support of this community.  Just hope I can pull off at least something in a reasonable time.

It sure would be fun to talk with any of the dev's that originally worked on any of the classic OS's on PPC and to get an idea of internal designs that are not publicly document.  If any one has names of them I'd be more than willing to reach out to them (though I'm sure because of NDA's I would probably not be able to get much info).
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #54 on: December 01, 2015, 06:47:37 AM »
On the posted MacWorld number 1 we can see
Quote
the dev's that originally worked on any of the classic OS's on PPC

the ones that worked on 68k original mac. We could try to contact Steve Capps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Capps, for example.

Andy Hertzfeld https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Hertzfeld

 Maybe we can expand that list. The last number published of MacWorld on vintageapple.org are untill the G3 B&W, so maybe there is more info.

I am afraid that the OS 8-9 developers are not thinking on OS9 anymore.

The same for ATI-nVidia developers, but we will keep the faith.
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline nanopico

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2015, 07:24:01 AM »
On the posted MacWorld number 1 we can see
Quote
the dev's that originally worked on any of the classic OS's on PPC

the ones that worked on 68k original mac. We could try to contact Steve Capps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Capps, for example.

Andy Hertzfeld https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Hertzfeld

 Maybe we can expand that list. The last number published of MacWorld on vintageapple.org are untill the G3 B&W, so maybe there is more info.

I am afraid that the OS 8-9 developers are not thinking on OS9 anymore.

The same for ATI-nVidia developers, but we will keep the faith.
It would be interesting to talk with them (if at all possible) and see if they know how much has changed since the original mac os Andy left apple in '84 so he might not know a lot about later development (but still an interesting person to talk with I bet) and Steve left in '96 so he would definitly be of interest (though he was working on newton towards the end of his days at apple).

Eric Traut wrote the 68k emulator used in 8.6 and up.  He would definitly have some knowledge about the parts of the system that I am of interest in.

Eric work's at Microsoft now.
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Offline Front 424

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2015, 01:01:17 AM »

Thanks for the kind words.  Definitely feeling the support of this community.  Just hope I can pull off at least something in a reasonable time.

Since all some of us can do is give encouragement anyway, hope it has a positive effect!

Quote
It sure would be fun to talk with any of the dev's that originally worked on any of the classic OS's on PPC and to get an idea of internal designs that are not publicly document.  If any one has names of them I'd be more than willing to reach out to them (though I'm sure because of NDA's I would probably not be able to get much info).

NDA's... never gave it much thought, but a possibility.
OS developers is a bit more ambitious than what I had in mind.. I was thinking maybe some seasoned classic programmers hanging out at some forum somewhere that might like a challenge (there has to be a developer community in a similar vein to this and other OS 9 venues), but the actual original architects of the thing wouldn't hurt, either.  ;)

Offline DieHard

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2015, 12:23:20 AM »
All I can Say is Santa (Diehard) is gonna send Nanopico some good stuff... he has been a very good boy this year :)

Offline GigaG

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2015, 09:23:43 AM »
I'd love to see Mac OS 9 be brought into the modern age. It's nice to see people interested in developing new or updated software (like Classilla) for the OS.
iMac G3 Indigo 500MHz
OS 9.2.2
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Any one want to help build a community made OS 9.3?
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2015, 11:32:55 AM »

I've been thinking that there must be some old school PPC mac programmers floating around somewhere that could at least give some advice on the inner OS and processor specific workings.  Anyone else thought that?  I know they must be out there.

I tried to contact torvan but he didn't replied me about

Well, my name is Troy, and I have been on this earth for 47 years now, which means-yeah, I go back to the original Macintosh although my first one was the Mac Plus. Now i have 13 Macs ranging from that Plus to the 2014 Mini i7. I am running everything from System 6 to 10.11.1.

But out of all of them, it is OS9 that still has my heart. the way you can customize the look and feel, the speed it has on modernish hardware, and the apps designed by folks who knew what "Think Different" really meant. Plus machines that reflected personality as opposed to the prison like feel of the modern design. There is only so many rectangle aluminum boxes one can have. . . . .

I have worked for the other camp (Microsoft) in the MBU (Mac Business Unit) for way too many years before moving to Wachovia (more money, better schedule, closer commute) which as you know went up in flames during the housing crises earlier this decade. Since then I have been a stay-at-home husband and find this career is much more to my likes. 

But then again, I do "Think Different" anyway, and that is why I am a Mac man.

That remind me the old Microsoft MCU and remind me old youtube videos of MacOS8-9 MacWorld.

[youtube]HwZzkf-IReM[/youtube]
Ben Waldman 49:35 probably know a few MacOS9 developers he is still alive. He is on facebook with Hillary Clinton on some photos, but I can't get in contact to.
https://www.facebook.com/BenWaldman?fref=ts


Other Mac OS known developer is Theodore Gray

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematica
Quote
Mathematica is split into two parts, the kernel and the front end. The kernel interprets expressions (Wolfram Language code) and returns result expressions.

The front end, designed by Theodore Gray, provides a GUI, which allows the creation and editing of Notebook documents containing program code with prettyprinting, formatted text together with results including typeset mathematics, graphics, GUI components, tables, and sounds. All content and formatting can be generated algorithmically or edited interactively. Most standard word processing capabilities are supported. It includes a spell-checker but does not spell check automatically as you type.

On wikipedia I cant see it working for Mac OS but on wayback machine
https://web.archive.org/web/20000817041956/http://www.wolfram.com/products/mathematica/what.html
Quote
Mathematica runs on an unusually wide array of operating systems: Windows 95/98/NT/2000, Mac OS, Linux, SunOS/Solaris, HP-UX, IRIX, AIX, Digital Unix, and compatible systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Gray
http://home.theodoregray.com/contact/

Quote
Finally, if you actually want to email me, you can do that at [email protected]. This goes directly to me, no filters other than spam filtering, no one checks it first. I am at your mercy.

Maybe he could lead us to documentation from Apple itself. He has been a OSX developer and iOS developer too, but maybe if someone reach him in a nostalgic day, we could get something. Maybe he can recall old colleages.  ;D

One thing is sure. Developers keep studying daily for them to be updated to sell products for the latest technology and not get themself obsolete, while some musicians can be happy with a 20 years old OS. We are different kind of Mac lovers!

In fact, any  CoreImage card going OS9 with 2D and 3D accel would be a gift.

you wont even get those to run under OSX, because all of them are aready x8. i think it is possible to use the PCI version of the geforce 5 in a G4, but it would run slower than a geforce 3 in a x4 slot and it would probably not support any kind of acceleration under OS9. you could as well use no graphics card at all.

I think all G4 wears up to AGPx4. Since the Gigabit Ethernet the AGPx4 were modded to help ADC monitors. This Mac http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1.42_dp_mdd.html could be built to order to a Radeon 9700 Pro.
From http://themacelite.wikidot.com/ati-radeon I see 9500, 9600, 9700, 9800 and FireGL X3-256MB
From http://themacelite.wikidot.com/nvidia-geforce I see a lot too

The complete list is on http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2 Just look PPC

We need to get to the nVidia and ATI developers on that age too. They could  help with PowerPC OSX cards to have accel 2D and 3D in OS9.

To my knowledge the lack of modern drivers has left out all ALU powerbooks, ALL iBooks G4 and all iMac G4 past the 700/800Mhz modell.

You can check the graphics chipset in first ALU books should be OS9 able.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/index-powerbook-g4.html

This PowerBook G4 867 12" http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/specs/powerbook_g4_867_12.html has NVIDIA GeForce4 420 Go and GeForce4 IS WORKING ON TOWERS
All I can Say is Santa (Diehard) is gonna send Nanopico some good stuff... he has been a very good boy this year :)
he has been a very good boy
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4