New Power Mac G4 can't boot into os

[musicbeats]

Hello all I'm new to the forums here and was hoping someone can help me out with an issue with my new Power mac g4. I had just gotten it yesterday and it came with OS X 10.5 leopard installed, however I got the machine to put Mac OS 9 on. If anyone is curious this is the model I got which it has support for OS 9 boot.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1ghz_dp_qs.html

So the first thing I did when after I got the computer was download the Mac OS 9.2.2 Universal Install iso from this website and I put it on a cd and then I boot from cd on my powermac. I was able to reformat my hdd and do the installation perfectly. I was able to boot into OS 9 and everything was working great. One thing that did bug me was that I couldn't use the scroll wheel and right click on the OS so I read online to fix this issue was to install usb overdrive. I installed the program then when the computer booted my mouse pointer was frozen in place and I could not move the pointer. So I decided that I would reinstall Mac OS 9 again from the same CD and that it should be no issue since it installed perfectly the first time. Well I was wrong...

After reformatting again and reinstalling the OS my computer now starts with the flashing folder Icon with question mark and finder face. So then I read that to fix this issue you need to install the mac os 9 drivers from the disk utility on a OS X installation CD, only problem is i'm not able to get to the installation screen. I've tried like 3 different versions of os x such as tiger, puma, ect., and everytime I try to boot the cd it will either just not boot from it and go back to the flashing folder, or when I tried to install tiger it just gave me a kernel panic each time, and sometimes it will just go to a screen with a smiling Macintosh. I also have tried to boot from the cd using the option key but that usually gives the same result or whenever I click the cd and continue it will not work.

So I was hoping someone can explain what I need to do or what I should try booting from so I can get an os running on here again.

[supernova777]

http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/power-mac-g4-quicksilver-2002-restore-discs

u can download + burn these discs + do the install
this will install mac os x 10.1 + mac os 9 on your machine
to restore it to its original default setup + go from there

usb overdrive will only work with older scroll wheel mice.. not the apple mighty mouse + later mice

make sure that the partition type is set to APM (apple partition map) it could be set to GPT/Guid which is
what the new intel macs use for partiton maps that can be larger then 2TB.. only osx tiger 10.4.6 + up will
be able to differentiate APM from GPT... but reformatting the drive with an earlier version of osx should partition the
drive as APM by default. (without stating it explictly in the format/partition options)

good luck.. dont give up. many people here can help u if u communicate whats goin on.

[musicbeats]

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the link you provided for the restore discs, however I'm still unable to get anything going.

First of all I wasn't too sure which discs to burn first so I decided I would burn the restore discs first, just to make sure it would work I only burned the first restore disc which was PM_G4_Restore_D1.toast just to see if it would actually boot from the disc. So I burned the toast file to a CD-R, put it in my powermac and held the C key on the keyboard and the flashing folder comes up again.

So then I decided to try the OSX 10.1.2 toast file, when I try to boot from that cd a screen comes up saying Welcome to Open Firmware, then it says type "mac-boot" to continue booting so I do that then the flashing folder comes up again  .

Then I tried the 9.2.2 Install iso held down the C key then the flashing folder comes up again.

I am able to choose a booting option if I hold down the option key when booting but if I try booting from the hdd or the cd nothing happens. I'm also able to boot into the open firmware but I'm not sure what to do from there.

I also wanted to just make sure if I'm actually burning these .toast files to the cd's correctly. The way I have been doing it is on my Macbook pro I insert the cd-r then I open disk utility then I drag and open the toast file to the disk utility, then I burn it to the cd hopefully I've been burning these files the correct way.

Another thing I just wanted to say is that the keyboard that I have been using if it matters is an official Apple Wired Keyboard,

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MB110LL/B/apple-keyboard-with-numeric-keypad-english-usa

I just don't know why I'm unable to boot from any cd, unless I have been burning the cds wrong, at this point I think it might be a hardware issue but that's hard to believe because it was working fine just a couple days ago when I first got it with os x leopard installed, and I was able to boot into the os 9 installation and install the os with no problem.

[supernova777]

that keyboard is not reccommended for use with a g4..
for the special key commands + eject buttons wont work properly..
it could be that using that keyboard is the source of your problems.
not sure tho.

re: burning
are they .toast files? (then use toast)
or .dmg files? (then use disk utility)
u can use either or to do the other but it seems like your having problems
so its best to use the proper program to eliminate any chance of error

[MacTron]

May be the CD-ROM is damaged, check the IDE cables ...
We are dealing with really old hardware, so the failures can appear at any time ...

[supernova777]

i think its very likely a problem to do with the CD-R media type + brand

are u burning DVD+R's? because alot of the superdrives that came with G4's will not consistantly read DVD+R properly - in my experience boots fail but data can be read after booting? who knows why

i had this problem over and over trying to boot from mac os x install dvds that i burned..
when i burned them to a DVD-R instead of a DVD+R it worked! first try. like magic.

so keep to using CD-R + DVD-R media only when burning for the g4!
and use a good brand such as "verbatim" stay away from cheap brands like "memorex"

also burning the discs at a lower speed can increase the ability of the older drive to read them properly. try burning them at 1X, 2X, 4X or 8X speeds instead of burning at 24X+ speeds

[GaryN]

I'm with Tron here. If the 9.2.2 install CD loaded, read and worked fine before and it suddenly doesn't now, it smells like a CD-ROM drive problem.

Also, just for the record, I'm using a Logitech M510 wireless USB mouse that's only a couple of years old with USB Overdrive without any problems other than it doesn't interpret all of the buttons correctly, but it basically works fine.

[musicbeats]

Hey all I think I can rule out that it is Not a CD-Drive problem because I have connected a different CD-Drive to the powermac and I get the same results, however I did notice 1 thing. The only CD I have been able to boot to is a 10.4 OS X Tiger Sony DVD-R, but it only shows the Apple logo then it goes to a kernel panic. I'm assuming then it might be the cds I have been using which were all 700mb CD-R Memorax. I tried putting the restore cd on a different Sony DVD+R with out success, only because I have run out of DVD-R.

I would also like to ask what program do you use to burn the files to the cds, for example do you just use the disk utility on the mac, which is what I've been using, or do you use a different program either on mac or windows? The only disc I got to boot which was the os x tiger I actually don't remember if I burned that disc with my mac or Windows computer but i'm pretty sure I did on my Macbook Pro 2011 with 10.6 snow Leopard like I have been with the rest.

I'm thinking that maybe it's the cds I have been using and I might have to get more DVD-R cause that's the only DVD I got to boot, but what really confuses me is that the cd I used to install mac os 9.2.2 won't boot anymore either but comes up to a grey screen with a smiling Macintosh. So right now I'm not really sure if it's the discs I've been using or if I have been burning the .toast files incorrectly, I might have to get more dvd-r online.

[supernova777]

i had the same results.. DVD-R works fine for boot.. DVD+R does not.. and unfortunately DVD+R is what most stores seem to be carrying now.

but most brands of CD-R should work just fine... which is what u should be using to burn those restore discs... u should be able to find Verbatim media if u look... they are usually higher quality then other brands, sometimes a few bucks more but its worth it.

please, try burning at a lower burn speed, u might be surprised to see that it really does make a difference.

if u check the specs on the 2002 quicksilver
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1ghz_dp_qs.html

the optical drive info is describe as:

Apple reported that the 2X DVD-R/CD-RW SuperDrive "writes DVD-R at 2X, reads DVDs at 6X, writes CD-R at 8X, writes CD-RW at 4X, and reads CDs at 24X". By custom order, it also could be configured with a DVD-ROM/CD-RW "Combo" drive that "reads DVD at 8X, writes CD-R at 8X, writes CD-RW at 8X, and reads CD at 32X". The optical drive uses a EIDE (ATA-3) bus.

so to be safe.. try burning the discs for the g4 at 6x speed (or slower) on your other machine and see if it makes a difference in its ability to boot from the discs

[supernova777]

heres a chart showing how long it should take to burn at diff speeds

i had problem with memorex cds + dvds trying to use them with powermacs..
i bet u if u try any other brand itll magically start to work.

[supernova777]

http://www.macgasm.net/2010/03/22/disk-utility-burning-a-cd-at-a-slower-speed/

check this thread to review how to find the speed options when burning a cd/dvd with disk utility

[MacTron]

the cd I used to install mac os 9.2.2 won't boot anymore either but comes up to a grey screen with a smiling Macintosh

The CD is somehow damaged.

Try to record it again in a good media and at low speed as chrisNova777 suggest.

[musicbeats]

Okay so tomorrow I'm gonna go get some Verbatim CD-R, and I will see if they work and let you guys know. I have also tried again burning the Memorex cd-r at low speed of 2x and it still didn't work so I'm assuming like Chris said that it's an unreliable brand.

Edit: I actually found a Sony DVD-R lying around which is the same Sony DVD that I was able to almost boot into Tiger, so I burned the first restore file to the dvd, the PM_G4_Restore_D1.toast at 2x speed with disk utility, and I'm not able to boot from it, so I don't know if Sony brand is any good either, so I'm still gonna get the Verbatim CD-R tomorrow.

[supernova777]

i think the memorex DVD+R media are only usable in newer cd/dvd drives thats the thing..
if u use the memorex in an intel imac they will seem to work fine... but they are really flimsy
+ cheap and easily damaged..

i think they are incompatible with older drives from 10 years ago.. there has been changes in standards regarding dvd media since 2007/2008 the dvd consortium has allowed the DVD+R standard in, and other changes they made to allow companies to make media a bit differently.. at least thats what i read.. some brands keep their media produced in the older tried + true methods + materials.. thats the only explanation i can think of.

also check this
http://www.diffen.com/difference/DVD%2BR_vs_DVD-R

lists the companies on either side of the "+" or "-" media types
the "-" type was originally backed by the companies: Apple, Pioneer , Mitsubishi, Hitachi (the latter 3 being the original leaders of the whole optical media industry pretty much!!)

u should buy some of those plastic cd sleeves they sell now if u are at a computer store.. they are really cheap + are really handy for taking care of your disks and making sure they dont get scratched!! plus u can fit 2 cds in on either side of the sleeve jackets so u can pair multiple cds together  easily etc

hope it works out for you!! ive been using only verbatim the last few months and have had no problems since dumping memorex.. memorex is crap when it comes to compatibility with these older drives..

u could always replace the drive completely with a SATA CD/DVD drive with a sata to IDE adapter such as this: http://mediagate.pbworks.com/f/1240855949/SATA_to_ATA_IDE_Converter_Adapter_%281%29.jpg then u would know that the drive supports DVD+R properly .. any drive from 2008+ should support DVD+R media but the older drives, they sometimes work, sometimes not...

similarly i have a 2006 toshiba A100 Satellite laptop..it has a MATSHITA UJ-841S DVD-RAM drive and it cant read really old CD-R's!!! just a few weeks ago i had to plug in a really ancient 1998 or 1999 CD-R drive to a desktop pc to be able to copy some akai format sample cds that i created back in the late 90s... my laptop would not read the disks.. it would say that the discs were empty/blank if inserted and prompted me to burn stuff on them, but putting the discs into a really ancient MATSUSHITA cd-r drive (4x??) it read them and i was able to image the disks to .iso files !

[DieHard]

USB overdrive definitely did not cause the issue, at the very worst it caused an extension conflict (hence your initial freeze up... or maybe just a coincidence (bad timing) with a memory issue)

OK, Very first steps...

1) Remove and re-seat the RAM

2) Zap P-RAM with CMD-OPT-P-R and wait for 4 CHIMES

Now hold C and try to boot, if open firmware comes up again, remove some RAM or replace it with know good RAM

[supernova777]

 i was thinking ram yesterday too.. but lets see what happens with his new cd-rs

[musicbeats]

I got the new Verbatim CD-Rs today and I tried burning disc 1 of the 5 restore cds, which is called PM_G4_Restore_D1.toast with disc utility at the lowest speed possible and I am still unable to boot from the disc and also tried the Zap-PRAM method and re-seating the ram like Diehard suggested and that didn't work either. I'm seriously confused though why I seem to be able to get something out of the 10.4 tiger DVD that I burned but with kernel panic, also I tried a different CD drive too and still can't boot.

[DieHard]

with a bootable CD in the optical drive, Please also try this...

cmd-opt-shift-delete
Bypass startup drive and boot from external (or CD). This actually forces the system to NOT load the driver for the default volume

[musicbeats]

No luck tried cmd-opt-shift-delete still doesn't boot just comes up like always with the flashing folder with the question mark and Finder icon. I also just tried my Tiger DVD again and now I can't get it anymore to come up with the apple logo anymore now open firmware comes up and it just boots to the Folder but this time with just the Finder logo on it and no flashing question mark. I'm thinking at this point maybe it is the ram or possibly the battery needs to be replaced. I don't right now have any extra sdram to test so I might have to get that.

[supernova777]

i think u should burn the Apple hardware test cd and boot that first - sounds like u have to diagnose whats wrong first.

download this cd and burn it WITH ROXIO TOAST (version 8, 9, 10, or 11 should work on snow leopard to burn it frm your macbook pro)
http://macintoshgarden.org/sites/macintoshgarden.org/files/apps/G4_Hardware_Test_V124.toast_.zip

this entire disc image is only 8mb (32mb uncompressed)
so it should download almost instantly..

booting it will let u know whats wrong with the g4
im sorry u are having such a dificult time..