Migrating Vision 1.4 files to Logic Pro X via Studio Vision on Mac OS9.

[SuperFred]

The Trail of Tears
Project Goal: Migrating 264 Vision 1.4 files to Logic Pro X

Summary: It works! But it is going to take a million years to complete the project.
Current Challenge: Troubleshoot occasional type 2 errors and make overall process easier.

The Approach:
Step 1 Install SVP Demo with bundled OMS X.X onto Blueberry G3 running Mac OS 9.1. (done)
Step 2 Install Unitor family of drivers to run emagic MT4 hooked up to Emu Proteus 1. (done)
Step 3 Configure OMS by not clicking serial or printer port and allowing it to search for devices so that it will talk to MT4 USB midi interface. (done)
Step 3 Test if SVP Demo will open Vision 1.4 files and play them. (done)
   Note it asks me to find the OMS studio setup file used to create the sequence file and if I want to make it current. I do. It asks me to remap some missing hardware. I do. The sequences play without problem.
Step 4 Replace SVP Demo with SVP PPC. (done)
Step 5 Export opened Vision 1.4 file from within SVP PPC and export it as SMF 1. (done)
Step 6 Move using Firewire drive to Mid 2010 27"iMac and import to Logic Pro (done)
Step 7 Wonder why rackmount Proteus sounds so much better than Logic's EXS24 using Emu's Proteus samples and why after so many years Logic is still not as good as Vision was for composition. (ongoing) 

Current Issues:
Some songs create type 2 errors when trying OMS is trying to make their legacy studio setups current.
I tried turning off extensions.
I tried increasing the RAM to SVP.
Neither approach worked.

I would welcome any suggestions on how to debug the Type 2 error!
Thanks, and thanks to the forum for providing the links below that were essential.

How to install the SVP Demo and Studio Vision Pro PPC here:
http://vision.agektmr.com/Tips/en/Install.html
http://vision.agektmr.com/Tips/en/Install2.html

All of the Opcode software here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20090211171448/http://opcodeusers.com/opcode/vision.html

emagic mt4 drivers
http://web.archive.org/web/20020603152527/http://www.emagic.de/english/support/download/toolsmac.html

Stuffit available here:
http://my.smithmicro.com/stuffit-updates.html

[GaryN]

OK… Let's try to unpack this.
Old files, long gone studio setup, reopening them with newer version of SVP, and you get occasional type 2 errors (which I assume bomb the operation and force a restart?)

Let's suppose the issue is OMS is getting lost looking for something that existed back then and is no longer present. Why? 'Cause you gotta start somewhere…

First:  Do the songs that trigger the errors ever open after retry, or do they absolutely crash every time? If you can get one to open, look for a difference in the original instruments in the setup between the "bad" song and a "good" one. OMS may be looking for the setup file in what is now a "bad" place to look. I know that sounds weird, but it may lead somewhere…

Second:  Where are your "new" OMS prefs? They should be in a folder inside an OMS folder inside the system folder - NOT inside the system folder preferences folder but just inside the system folder itself. This really smells to me like your general trouble area. Like the OMS pref / setups on certain songs (at a certain point in history) were located somewhere that was OK then, but OMS can't find now. Again, I know that's kinda vague, but hopefully you get the idea.

If the "bad" tunes absolutely will not open without a crash, you need a different approach. Try these, if you haven't already, in more or less this order:

1. A newer version of OMS. Preferably from the same era as the version of SVP. That will most likely be 2.3.8
2. Decreasing the RAM to SVP - I KNOW that sounds insane, but I swear it has resolved more mysterious SVP issues than you would believe possible. (Not holding out a lot of hope here though, this really looks like an OMS issue.)
3. Try to open them in SVP without making the setup current, if that works and it opens, save the song as a SVP file, THEN try reopening and exporting.

Now we're getting more frustrated - take a break. When you come back, try this:

4. Create an OMS studio setup file from scratch that matches the original setups from the 1.4 era. Create and enter instruments manually as needed since they're not there anymore for OMS to detect. If necessary, lie to OMS and tell it there are instruments connected to an interface on the modem and/or printer ports - note this will cause OMS to put up a screen at startup saying it can't find the alleged interface which you can then tell it to ignore and just open anyway. You don't care because you just want to make an exportable SMF, not play it. But first:

5. Create a new SVP setup file using the fake OMS setup. When you next try to open a "bad" file, start SVP first, then try to open a "bad" file.

Holler back - I'll cross my fingers for ya…

[supernova777]

thanks for offering your expertise gary!

[SuperFred]

Thanks Gary,
I really appreciate your suggestions.
I'll give it a try and let you know how it works.
Thanks,
K

[SuperFred]

Hi Gary,
So first, thanks again for the suggestions.
I really appreciate it. I spent the evening diligently trying them out. I did not succeed.
I think you are on to something that there is something in the particular studio setup of some of the old files that makes SVP crash.  That said, I haven’t managed to crack it.

So I tried the different ideas you suggest, summarized here:
First:  Do the songs that trigger the errors ever open after retry, or do they absolutely crash every time?
It crashes every time. Oddly, the “SVP Demo” opened them but SVP PPC won’t. The problem is that the demo does not allow exporting SMF files.

Second:  Where are your "new" OMS prefs? They should be in a folder inside an OMS folder inside the system folder - NOT inside the system folder preferences folder but just inside the system folder itself.
Yes, the are in System Folder/OMS Folder/OMS Preferences

If the "bad" tunes absolutely will not open without a crash, you need a different approach.
Ok!

1. A newer version of OMS. Preferably from the same era as the version of SVP. That will most likely be 2.3.8
Installing 2.3.8 fails in the middle of installation saying an unexpected error occurred installing the Proteus 2000. :-(

2. Decreasing the RAM to SVP
Same result.

3. Try to open them in SVP without making the setup current
Type 2 error
 
Now we're getting more frustrated - take a break. True that.

4. Create an OMS studio setup file from scratch that matches the original setups from the 1.4 era.
In trying this it hung while searching for drivers after I clicked the modem and serial ports.

5. Create a new SVP setup file using the fake OMS setup. When you next try to open a "bad" file, start SVP first, then try to open a "bad" file.
See above.


I tried creating a fresh OMS setup that approximated what I thought might have been the configuration tied to the old files that are crashing. I remembered I used an Emax II on the modem port in addition to the Proteus 1 on the serial port. I tried doing a setup that used the MT4 over USB but told it there was a Proteus on port 1 and an Emax II on port 2.

Upon launching SVP PPC it asked:
Make a new set of instruments from the output devices and channels in the current Studio Setup?
Instruments which are currently in use and custom instruments (for example with bold face names that you typed in) will be preserved. This operation is not undoable.
[]Always make from Studio Setup which I left unchecked. Check this to remind you to update your instruments whenever the current Studio Setup changes.
[Don’t make][Make]

I tried [Make]
And left the []Always...box unchecked.

SVPPPC launched without problem.
I opened one of the files that have been working without a problem.
OMS threw a dialogue box:
The patches “All Proteus” do not match those in your current setup.
[Don’t][Make Current]

I chose [Don’t]
OMS: Would you like to keep patches that are saved with “All Proteus”? If not “All Proteus” will be permanently changed.
[Go Back][Change][Keep]

I chose [Keep]

This file that had opened in the past without problem opened again without problem.

I now tried opening a “bad” file.
When the File/open dialogue opened I left []Use setup instruments unchecked.

OMS threw a dialogue box:
The patches “All Proteus” do not match those in your current setup.
[Don’t][Make Current]

I chose [Don’t]

OMS: Would you like to keep patches that are saved with “All Proteus”? If not “All Proteus” will be permanently changed.
[Go Back][Change][Keep]

I chose [Keep]

It threw a type 2 error and had to reboot the machine.

I tried variations including:
checking the

• Use setup instruments in the File Open dialogue

[Make Current} in the patches don’t match dialogue
(At this point OMS reported: In order to make the names in “All Proteus” current please be sure to manually load these patches into these devices: (It displayed two icons, one was the icon of the Proteus 1 instrument from the OMS current setup, the other icon looked like the icon of an OMS document and had the name of one of the old OMS setup files (from v1.4) called “All Proteus/Proteus 1”.

It once again threw a type 2 error.

Summary:
I feel like I have tried the permutations of the different choices available.
Would I be a quitter if I just worked to actually recreate the original hardware environment the files were built under? (get Vision 1.4 running on a MacClassic under OS7 using a serial Midi interface) and try it there?  :-[

[GaryN]

After all you've been through here, I would be the last one to consider you a "quitter". Anything but!

My best assessment now:

There's something not kosher with the Proteus driver and its relationship with the current setup. The OMS 2.3.8 Proteus fail is indicating a compatibility issue that wouldn't BE an issue if any of the software involved was being maintained and updated. The problem would have reared its head and Opcode would have fixed it in an update.
My best wild guess is SVP PPC, and / or OMS 2.++ which didn't exist before OS 8 ( or thereabouts - not sure, but definitely not during OS7 ) are having issues locating or interfacing with all old things Proteus from system 7. There's probably nothing you can do to fix that.

Oh well…

Nah, just kidding. Let's simplify here. You're just trying to export recorded MIDI data to a SMF to move to a new app. You don't need the actual Proteus stuff working or anything, really - just the data, and you can actually open the files in the SVP demo - SO…

Assuming the save operation works in the demo:

Why don't you open them, change the instruments to something else NOT Proteus and as simple as possible, then resave the file as a different copy, and try opening THAT in SVP. Maybe that will work. If it wants to change the instruments to match the current setup, let it. All that's going to do is match the tracks to whatever's currently on that MIDI channel. It may ask you to locate patch files that no longer exist. Just cancel your way through all of that.  Again, you don't care what the instrument actually IS, you just want the MIDI in a SMF. You can always change names back later in Logic. Your objective is to just get the MIDI out.

If THAT doesn't work…

Then there's the last resort idea you had… If you have the Mac Classic and interface etc. and can run the old files on it, maybe you can resort to playing the files out to the other computer in real time and re-recording them. Yeah, that would be a pain in the ass - that's why it's the last resort, but it will work if nothing else does.

Good luck, holler back.

[supernova777]

cant u install Vision 1.4 on mac os 8.6 or 9.x ?
i heard from someone that u could do this.. in fact im pretty sure the installer file is on the board here somewhere

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2368.0
i documented that this version is from 1993 in the above thread..

ok maybe im mistaken..
and its vision 1.02 that was posted here
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2132.0

would locating a copy of 1.4 help?
if it was possible to install + run 1.02 it must be possible to do the same with 1.4

i also documented that there was a version 1.4 for windows 3.1 aswell
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php?topic=520.0

heres an ebay auction that lists vision 1.4 on 2 3.5" floppies
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Opcode-Vision-Galaxy-OMS-software-on-3-5-floppy-disks-MIDI-sequencer-for-Mac-/141711926113

[SuperFred]

Hi Guys,
Thanks again for following up!

Chris, I set up a saved search on ebay to watch for Vision 1.4 install disks.
I do have install disk 1 (of 2) of Vision 1.4 so if I can get my MacClassic operating, I think I can get Vision 1.4 to launch. If my old machine won’t operate (the capacitors were flaking out last time I tested it) I am not sure if I’ll be able to get it to install on another machine with just one disk or due to install counts or something. Maybe I could swap hard drives with another machine or something. 

Gary, unfortunately, the save functions don’t work in the Demo. 

Although one more idea popped in my head. I installed OMS 2.x.x (i can't remember the version exactly but it is not the most recent and comes as a part of the demo installer and then replaced the demo app with SVP PPC.

When I tried to install OMS 2.3.8 it fails as I mentioned.

That said, I did manage to install 2.3.8 on my Mid 2010 “27 iMac running sheepshaver. I wonder if I could delete everything OMS manually from my G3 and then manually pick all of the parts out of the sheepshaver install and then transfer them via a Firewire external drive and manually install OMS 2.3.8 by putting each component in by hand.
Sounds fragile and likely to screw something up...but what are weekends for? 

Thanks again guys. I'll keep you posted.
K

[GaryN]

This is nuts!

There's not one really good reason I can think of why this should be happening.

I'll tell you what, I'm willing to try this if you're OK with it: Stuff one of these *&#8)^# files AND one of the "no problem" ones into a .sit and send them to me.
Let's see what happens on my system. either it will just work fine or it won't, but at least I'll have a better view of all this.
Either way maybe we'll learn something…?

Send to: Gary@Opcodesupport ha ha (Don't you wish?)

To: [email protected]

[SuperFred]

Hi Gary,
Thanks for being so generous.
So I copped out. I got ahold of a stable Mac Classic II running Mac OS 6.0.8L. Hooked up an old Macman Midiman serial interface to a Proteus.
I installed OMS 1.1.3 from old floppies.
Installed Vision 1.4 and......
It works AND opens the problem files.
Who knows?
But again, thanks for your generosity. I will email you one of the problem files just for fun, but don't worry, I will now be working through the 260 plus files and exporting the 10-12 sequences in each of them until...well who knows when. I'll also send you a picture of the scene of the crime. :-)
Thanks again,
K

[supernova777]

i bet its totally because of the oms version.
or perhaps its to do with the MT4 interfaces OMS driver..
http://web.archive.org/web/20020603152527/http://www.emagic-mirror.com/pub/drivers/u8omsdrv.sit
it may have some differences between the way it works and the older interfaces that would have been used at the time
of vision 1.4. remember thats emagic writing a driver for opcodes OMS..  presumably primarily for use with logic + the mt4
+ oms.. not vision!!

kzb; if u could share some photos of your mac classic running vision 1.4 for educational purposes that would be really cool

[SuperFred]

Hi Chris!
Here you go!
K

[Philgood]

Lovely vintage piece. Cool that it gets a job done after so much time.

[mrhappy]

Now THAT is bringing back some memories!!😁

[supernova777]

any chance of you creating a disk image of the vision 1.4 installer?? so that we can check out if it works on mac os 9

[SuperFred]

Hi Chris,
I could be wrong, but I don't think it will work.
The install disk says it counts the number of installs.
Now, when I tried to install it to my MacClassic the install disk failed, but I had the application backed up on an external drive.
When I installed OMS (from floppy) and then dragged the application from the external drive to the MacClassic it works - BUT - it asks for the key disk to be inserted. When I insert the floppy key disk (the one that would not install) upon request it runs fine.
I could be wrong, but I don't think I can create a disk image of a key disk that it will recognize as such.
Does that make sense?
Thanks,
K

[supernova777]

mactron, would it be possible to duplicate the "master" or "key" authorization disk? somehow?

[MacTron]

mactron, would it be possible to duplicate the "master" or "key" authorization disk? somehow?

May be. It was done in some cases, back in time ...
I'm not following this thread, but may be you can use EZvision 1.0 that works in Mac Os 9.22 and don't need Authorization diskette.

[supernova777]

i thought u would have more technical knowledge with regard to how the authorization from floppy works...

and what tools one would use to attempt to make a working copy of it.

i guess i can ask on macintoshgarden.

[DieHard]

Chris,

Back in the day I owned (and used regularly) a Copy2PC Board that was basically a hardware controller board that connects to the floppy drive and duplicated all forms of advanced copy protected floppies for MAC and PC.

We would dupe the virgin "Key Disk" floppies and then use the copies to decrement install counts

I lost it in my move over 12 years ago, But it was very cool

...CPS also offered a hardware add-in expansion card, the Copy II PC Deluxe Board, which was bundled with its own software. The Copy II PC Deluxe Board was able to read, write and copy disks from Apple II and Macintosh computer systems as well.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Point_Software

*** UPDATE ***

OMG, I found one on ebay... here it is

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Central-Point-Deluxe-Option-Board-COMPLETE-IN-BOX-Transcopy-Copy-II-PC-ISA-/171848855699?hash=item2802fd7093