Author Topic: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6  (Read 6252 times)

supernova777

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i would like to find a way to make my mac os8.6 support widescreen resolutions with the radeon 7000 PCI card.

i was thinking maybe theres a way to take mac os 9 extensions (overwriting the 8.6 versions) to achieve this?

has anyone else achieved this?
if so, can u please share a HOWTO? :)

i would resort to just using the rage 128 in non-widescreen ratio to avoid the problems but..
then i would not have the option of dual displays / 2 monitors. unless i took up 2 slots with 2 x rage 128 pci cards...
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 08:24:50 AM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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i notice theres a custom installer for using os older then 7.6 by a guy named Dan Palka
on the ati drivers page http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/ dated from 2006

http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#CM

Quote
This driver based on the ATI RADEON 7000 Mac Edition Installer 1.0 but the OpenGLRendererATI 1.2.8 and ATI Displays 2.8.4 has been removed because they are not supported on System 7.6.x (html manuals are also has been removed)

This driver from www.system7today.com
This installer supports the following ATI products :
• RADEON 7000 Mac Edition

i wonder if this guy ever found a way to enable widescreen resolutions.

Offline MacTron

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I have used a Radeon 8500 with Mac Os 8.6 at 1920x1080.
Mac Os 8.6 is virtually identical to Mac Os 9.x. The incompatibilities are unusual. I use the same Mac Os 9.2.2 folder to all my G4's (and some G3) and long time ago  I had transformed the same folder in to a 8.6 folder simply changing the System and Finder files, and a very few other files.

Anyway my System folder is usually a mix of system versions. I have selected the best ones over the years, so even though I mainly use Mac Os ROM 10.2 and System and Finder from 9.2.2 the remaining components may came as far as Mac Os 8.5.

BTW, If you only need the Radeon drivers, just drag and drop from a Mac Os 9 intallation.
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supernova777

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if i put in my radeon 7000 card right now i just get a grey screen on boot and it doesnt boot.
i have got it to work before though, but when i did get it to work, it didnt show any widescreen resolutions.

i thought the 8500 was AGP only?

do i need a firmware update or something for my radeon 7000 pci?
why does it not even boot up 8.6?

is there another pci card i could use?
i just want dual display at least.. widescreen resolution would be amazing.. but i will settle for having a card that supports DVI + VGA that would just *always work* is there a dual VGA or DVI+VGA card other than the radeon 7000 pci that supports mac os 8.6 without any technical problem solving?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 09:00:06 AM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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i just had an idea.. better to use the sawtooth with 8.6 + the rage 128 pro that came with it.. it is an AGP card and has both DVI + VGA.. and support for widescreen resolutions i think...

i love this B&W g3 for some reason but it is a serious pain in the ass compared to the sawtooth!!!!!!! BUT i will try to fix this problem first.. for a bit longer...

i decided to take that same radeon 7000 pci out of the B&W and put it into the Sawtooth alongside the AGP rage 128 pro.. for the purpose of trying to check the firmware, i downloaded this radeon 7000 firmware updater app .. its got a 208 firmware + a 119 firmware.. u have a choice of changing it to one or the other.. so i will see if its already 208 i can try 119.. and if its already 119 then i try 208..

hopefully flashing the firmware update might make it be able to boot back inside the g3

supernova777

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omg this card is haunted!!!!!!!!!!
error programming device.. Slot-SLOT-B:RV100-A12
maybe its rom chip is corrupted? its a sapphire radeon 7000..
im starting to think this card isnt a proper mac edition card at all?

Offline MacTron

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The G3 are good CPUs but it usually comes in awfully bad motherboards at its time. I don't recommend using a Mac older than a Sawtooth, (I can make an exception with  the PM 8600 and 9600 )
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Offline MacTron

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omg this card is haunted!!!!!!!!!!
error programming device.. Slot-SLOT-B:RV100-A12
maybe its rom chip is corrupted? its a sapphire radeon 7000..
im starting to think this card isnt a proper mac edition card at all?

Most of the problems I have with AGP and PCI are due to bad fitting between cards and the slots.
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supernova777

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im trying to check the rom on a pc now.. and the atiflash program says "adapter not found"
im trying some different versions of atiflash / flashrom

http://mattst88.com/?page=ati

using the above atiflash, the adapter is now seen from dos !

ok what ive done now is to flash the radeon 7000 with the "mac7k.bin" rom file from the page above..
there was a text file that suggested to use this firmware to make the proper mac firmware update (208) work on the mac!
so now ive just flashed the card with the mac7k.bin and im starting up in mac os 9.22 on the sawtooth to try the flasher
again this time hopefully it will flash + not give an error! the firmware updater says that it only allows a firmware upgrade
from a real ati mac edition 7000 pci

unfortunately this didnt fix it.. it still gives an error + refuses to update the firmware on the mac!!
maybe i should try another slot

« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 10:29:08 AM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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OMG! its working!! the 7000 pci in 1680x1050 on 9.2.2 on the sawtooth !!! (connected via DVI)
ive been trying every ROM file flashing over and over.. and i think ive found one that works!

im afraid to try it on 8.6 now tho. let me just enjoy the success for a moment
lol  ;D

one thing i notice tho is that all the choices of other resolutons are not showing up..
but its found the proper best res i think

.. tried it back in the g3..
grey screen. freeze.. ok i should just throw this g3 in a dumpster :D

i think im ready to give up on this..
the card i have is the 64mb (Sapphire)
i think it will only work on the g3 with a real mac edition (32mb) card
and as seen in this graphic.. that card is only VGA.. no DVI. no dual displays
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 11:28:32 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline MacTron

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2015, 11:39:07 AM »
Only high resolutions can be achieved on DVI, not in VGA in most cards. I couldn't figure out that you where using VGA on a DVI capable video card ...
Anyway, a using PCI video card isn't a good idea also.
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supernova777

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« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 06:01:54 PM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2015, 05:41:50 PM »
well.. here i am.. with 2 nonworking Radeon PCI cards... about to go in the garbage
the 7000 was flashing fine.. and then.. somehow a write failed.. and now, i cant even boot up the computer
with the card in the machine.. so i have no way of being able to try to reflash it..

i suppose it would need a new flash chip soldered to fix it.. but i cant be bothered


the radeon 9250 i was unable to flash.. it says that the serial flash rom is locked (flashrom dos app says this)
if anyone knows how to unlock.. please tell me.. apparently atiflash v4.X has a function u can do "atiflash -unlockrom 0" to unlock it
but my copy of atiflash4.17 doesnt even see the card.. i think its trying to search for a pci-express bus instead of pci.


the 7000, i had working earlier on my sawtooth.. i should have just left it as it was but i wanted to try the different roms
all in hopes of finding a rom file that made it work with the g3 b&W so i didnt get that stupid grey screen on boot.
and well.. something went wrong.. what a waste of a day.. do yourself a favor and dont even try this crap.. its so sketch
one minute flashing is working.. the next.. it just stops working. for no apparent reason.

this thing is definately not an original mac edition card.. it was flashed before i even got it. but it did work.. and i had it working
in both 9 + 8.6 but it would always screw up for some reason (in 8.6 on the g3 anyway) so stay away from radeon 7000 64mb cards for a g3...

theres only certain versions of 7000/9200 cards that work with the flashed roms i think, and well.. I dont think either of these cards is one of them.

i think to be successful i would have to get that same card that filiphezuen had in this post: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1311.msg6595#msg6595


or possibly the original mac edition radeon pci card (which came out before both the all the other retail cards, 7000 + 8500 + 9200)


the box looks like this,

but im not sure what hte actual card looks like..
but here, i found this bad res pic from the rear of the box pic


if only the stupid firmware updater had just flashed the stupid card!


if anyone could offer advice on another card to get that does dual displays on mac os 8.6 - please help me!!
there was another card that i remember digidesign had reccommended for use with pro tools 4 + 5 that was of a unique brand name. started with a j or a g? i forget...
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 06:18:55 PM by chrisNova777 »


supernova777

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2015, 06:23:39 PM »
ok i found another radeon 7000 that is the "real mac edition" and it has more then one port! maybe this can work for me..





maybe this older circular radeon logo is key to identifying cards that will work with mac os 8.6

« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 07:53:42 PM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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supernova777

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2015, 06:39:38 PM »
http://web.archive.org/web/20001012173054/http://www.ati.com/na/pages/products/mac/mac_index.html

found the original page for the "mac edition" original Radeon!

heres a proper pic


The website is from 2000, but i think this thing maybe was out a bit earlier? late 99? early 2000? OOOPS wait thats the AGP version.. the pci must have been out earlier .. anyway.

heres the FAQ
http://web.archive.org/web/20001018092047/http://www.ati.com/na/pages/faq/mac/radeon_mac_faq.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20030207122446/http://mirror.ati.com/products/builtdesktopmac.html
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 06:51:45 PM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2015, 06:56:57 PM »
would an nvidia Geforce 2 MX PCI be compatible with mac os 8.6?

did they make mac compatible Riva TNT? or Riva 128?

http://web.archive.org/web/19980613041749/http://www.nvidia.com/home.html

im checkin out macsales.com on the web archive from 2000:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000303145032/http://shop.macsales.com/Macsales/Monitors/Video.taf?_process=videocards
this page shows a few options for video card upgrades

-ATI TECHNOLOGIES RAGE Orion 16MB
-ATI TECHNOLOGIES Nexus 128 32MB

the rage orion def supports mac os 8 ..
according to the manual:
http://www2.ati.com/manuals/orion.pdf
but i never even heard of these lol

what about Matrox?
http://www.512bit.net/matrox/matrox_millenium.html

could i use a matrox dual head card for mac os 8.6???

the g450?
http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/graphics_cards/g_series/g450pci/

or the millenium 2 PCI?

wow according to this there was a rage 128 pro 16mb pci
http://sishardware.com/unt/726-ati_rage_128_pro_16mb_vgadvi_agp_video_card_109___63000___00_1001567.html

i think i actually have a mac -> vga adapter still kicking around somewhere from those old days!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 07:39:12 PM by chrisNova777 »

Offline Knezzen

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2015, 10:54:41 PM »
Can't you put the broken radeon in along with a working PCI graphics card and try reflashing it again?
You connect your monitor to the working PCI graphics card of course, so you get a picture :)

This is what I used to do when I flashed cards on a regular basis and something went wrong.

supernova777

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2015, 02:53:34 AM »
i actually was able to fix the radeon 7000 by putting into an Asus P5PE-VM board.. which started up fine.. and i reflashed it with the original rom that it had to begin with.. (mac compatible) no matter what i do tho, it jsut gives me problems with mac os 8.6 - its incompatible.. its only compatible with g4's + os 9.
at least thast what ive decided about the flashed one that i have.. .. i would need an original radeon "mac edition" PCI or real radeon 7000 "mac edition" 32mb pci
to have it be compatible with mac os 8.6

supernova777

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2015, 09:28:15 AM »
needless to say ive given up the goal of the original post .. and resorted to just using the original rage 128........
maybe some day someone can find a way to do this... or maybe not .. lol

Offline Syntho

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2015, 02:19:50 PM »
This is why I stick with nvidia. ATIs can't do a 16:9 DAR other than 1920X1080 UNLESS that's your monitor's max res. Nvidias give you more, smaller 16:9 DARs but the problem with that is the older of a Mac you have, the less cards work in the machine.

That's why I had to pay to have those drivers hacked for me.

Offline DieHard

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2015, 03:56:06 PM »
That's why I had to pay to have those drivers hacked for me.
Can we upload the "Hacked Drivers" here for other users ?

supernova777

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2015, 04:13:22 PM »
That's why I had to pay to have those drivers hacked for me.
Can we upload the "Hacked Drivers" here for other users ?

see this is exactly the shit im talking about.. we work so hard to give stuff away and our own users cant even be bothered to think to contribute what they have in return.. (sorry to use u as an example syntho) but this is why im starting to think im wasting my time on this forum.


Offline Syntho

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2015, 08:05:04 PM »
The twin turbo cards won't work in your more modern macs (not even G3s I believe, but correct me if I'm wrong). They use the apple connector and require a VGA adapter (no chance of DVI at all with these bad boys). There are also a few different Twin Turbo cards, and each EPROM revision (no telling what you'll get) requires a slightly different hack. Plus you have to know your monitors' modelines and do some math, and then tweak and tweak to get it as good as it'll get, with the end result not being as good as a simple $15 nvidia card in a G3/G4.

^^^ all of that is why I didn't bother. I do this because I fell in love with System 7. You'd have to have the exact same card model + EPROM revision, plus have a 9600 in the first place which is mandatory (the driver is specifically for 9600s)

supernova777

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2015, 09:20:31 PM »
i posted recently saying i was surprised to read that that card was originally the OEM card for the 9600 power macintosh.

i had no idea!
i guess it was before they made their deal with ATI.

Offline Syntho

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2015, 08:13:57 AM »
There are a few different 9600s and each one came with a slightly different Twin Turbo apparently. The programmer and I had to mail our cards back and forth a couple times as we encountered 3 different models of the cards between us, plus different EPROM revisions. We couldn't figure out WTF was going on until we took pics and mailed stuff.

Speaking of that, I need to get on Ebay and get some backups before everyone else buys them  :o

Offline DieHard

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2015, 01:15:08 PM »
Good to know, Syntho :)

If there are any System 7 Fanatics that have a 9600, PM Syntho for more info. about the drivers

Offline Syntho

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Re: widescreen monitor resolution (1680x1050 aspect ratio) in mac os 8.6
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2015, 03:35:47 PM »
I was planning on doing a long 9600 thread documenting my 5 months of getting it rock solid. I'll put them in there.