Author Topic: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)  (Read 10131 times)

supernova777

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flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« on: April 20, 2015, 01:13:22 PM »

http://themacelite.wikidot.com/9250-trick

im surprised on macelite theres no info about flashing 9200 radeon pci cards (for use in agp ppc machines as second display or a pci only b&W g3)
undoubtedly because they choose to focus on mac os x + faster cards
BUT
they do have this pag on modding the 9250

at the bottom of the page he says :
Quote
Actually, RADEON9250 PCI or AGP cards can also be accelerated under OS9 with drviers I made. Feel free to send me an PM and I will be glad to help you. Be sure that you must let me believe that you are an end user but not an e-bay (or other sites) seller.
but it doesnt say WHO is the person to PM or email

i believe we have those files (recently reposted by mactron)
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1193.0
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1193.0

why am i reposting this?
im trying to figure out a good available radeon 9200/9250 PCI pc card.. to flash!!!
it seems all cards dont work because this resistor modification needs to be done

i tried to flash the card that i have which is a powercolor 9250
http://www.powercolor.com/au/products_features.asp?id=196

and the flash worked fine.. but the video was scrambled..
i beleive thats because of this resistor..
and because i was using it in a 66mhz pci slot (on the g3 b&W)

ok i see now the above was written by "tomeJapan" who is a member on the cube owners forum
http://www.cubeowner.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9564&pid=57857&mode=threaded&show=&st=&

also the macelite forums are down
but the strangedogs forums are UP!
http://strangedogs.proboards.com/
THESE GUYs ARE THE PROS!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 01:38:24 PM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: resistor mod for radeon 9250 pc card flashed
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2015, 01:25:09 PM »
http://themacelite.wikidot.com/radeon-9000np-conversion

also i found this page on radeon 9000 (pc flash)

supernova777

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2015, 01:29:00 PM »
http://www.synack.net/~bbraun/ati7k.html

this page is on the 7000
apparently this requires swapping the rom + resoldering

Offline MacTron

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2015, 02:12:09 PM »
they do have this pag on modding the 9250 ...

I have a PC Radeon 9250 somewhere...


BTW: Don't forget about Radeon 8500.
The Mac Os 9 Radeon 8500 ROM update app, actually flash a PC card to a Mac Radeon 8500;D

I have done it five years ago, when I have found a PC Radeon 8500 boxed and unopened.  8)
This is a true video card Flash for dummies.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

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« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 03:39:29 PM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2015, 06:59:27 AM »
they do have this pag on modding the 9250 ...

I have a PC Radeon 9250 somewhere...


BTW: Don't forget about Radeon 8500.
The Mac Os 9 Radeon 8500 ROM update app, actually flash a PC card to a Mac Radeon 8500;D

I have done it five years ago, when I have found a PC Radeon 8500 boxed and unopened.  8)
This is a true video card Flash for dummies.

how would this be done.. the rom update run on a pc? or on a mac? the 8500 is a kick ass card in os9! next best thing to a geforce4 ti 4400 (exact same specs on this gpureview site)

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=22&card2=136
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 07:19:36 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline MacTron

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2015, 07:50:10 AM »
how would this be done.. the rom update run on a pc? or on a mac? the 8500 is a kick ass card in os9! next best thing to a geforce4 ti 4400 (exact same specs on this gpureview site)

The procedure it is really funny :)

A) Place the Mac Radeon 8500 update In the Mac Os startup items folder.
B) Shutdown the Mac and install the PC Radeon 8500.
C) Restart the Mac. Not working video card, but the update begins to work. Wait a few minutes and:
D) Restart again, this time you allredy have a working Mac Radeon 8500 !
At this restart you have to press a boot key combo to disable startup items and avoid to flash the card again. And ofcourse delete the Mac Radeon 8500 update from the Startup items folder for the same reason. LOL
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supernova777

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2015, 07:59:12 AM »
it seems the rom updater is not hard to find at all either

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/15994/ati-radeon-rom-updater
http://download.cnet.com/ATI-RADEON-ROM-Update/3000-2108_4-45114.html

this macupdate url says it supports all the following cards:

Quote
October 2004 ATI RADEON Universal ROM Update for ATI Retail Mac Cards

Cards Supported:

    RADEON MAC EDITION (PCI) RADEON MAC EDITION (AGP) RADEON 7000 MAC EDITION RADEON 8500 MAC EDITION RADEON 9000 MAC EDITION RADEON 9200 MAC EDITION RADEON 9800 PRO MAC EDITION RADEON 9800 PRO MAC SPECIAL EDITION


could it be that the same procedure might work on other cards?

Offline MacTron

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2015, 08:42:27 AM »

could it be that the same procedure might work on other cards?

No it couldn't. Unless we find a hack.
ATI has disabled this procedure in other updates. The updater app, checks if the card is for Mac or not.
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Offline MacTron

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2015, 09:22:59 AM »
it seems the rom updater is not hard to find at all either
I think that's not the file ...
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 09:57:27 AM by MacTron »
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supernova777

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2015, 02:14:04 PM »
ATI RADEON 8500 OS 9 Installer 1.0
http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#8500

March 2002 ATI Retail Update
http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#0204

Apple ATI Update for Mac OS 9.2.2
http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#CN

these are the first 3 specifying the 8500.. ?
but none seem to flash the rom.. ?

ok it must be this:

Quote
ATI RADEON 8500 Mac Edition Firmware Update (v126) (05 April 2002)

Firmware versions included in this installer:
RADEON 8500 Firmware126 UPDATE – part number: 113-85710-126 – latest version (at that time)
RADEON 8500 Firmware123 RESTORE – part number: 113-85710-123 – original version

Requirements:
 – RADEON 8500 Mac Edition graphics card (Mac Edition have 128K ROM chip but other Radeon 8500 cards have only 64K ROM chip)
 – The "Read Me" writes Mac OS 9 as minimum system

Installer Read Me

Download installer: RADEON8500-ROM-126.hqx
http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/ROM/RADEON8500-ROM-126.hqx

Offline Bolle

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2017, 04:16:33 AM »
So as nobody has been able to find those mysterious modified OS9 drivers for the 9250 I took a look at them myself and hacked something together to get acceleration in 9.2.2 with the 9250.
I started with the Jan2005 drivers, installed the Jul2005 update and then fiddled with device IDs in the ATI Resource Manager extension for my 9250 with device ID 5960 to be detected by the extension.
I found only 5961 is included in the resource manager but not 5960, so I just replaced all 5961 entries with 5960.
In all other extensions the 5960 device was present so no need to touch those.

If anyone is interested and is not able to perform that small modification on their own drop me a line and I can upload an archive of all the ATI extensions I am running right now.

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2017, 10:06:04 AM »
Great work :)
Your 9250 have the Mac Os ROM inside, I guess?
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Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2017, 01:16:06 PM »
  So what card does device ID 5961 correspond to?  I assume changing that would break support for whatever card that was.  Interesting though.

Offline Bolle

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2017, 03:22:41 AM »
I flashed the card with the reduced R127 ROM from the macelite downloads.
Device ID 5961 is a 9200SE, which is very similar to the 9250. This is why I chose to replace that one. Plenty of other choices but this seemed to be the closest match from a hardware point of view.

In the meanwhile I put up the whole set of extensions I have installed to get accelerated video here if someone wants to play with it: http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/ati-radeon-9250-mac-os-9-drivers

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2017, 09:42:04 AM »
  Okay, cool.  So long as anyone downloading your files knows what they are gaining and losing.  There's been massive confusion in the past surrounding support and compatibility of the various 92x0-series cards, the required firmware, and whether the cards are stock Mac or flashed PC.  (This led to a bunch of unnecessary arguing in one thread about the fundamentals of the OS operation with video initialization.)

  I appreciate your efforts to get more of these cards working.  As options get scarce you'll be helping many users get systems going again or upgraded.  My hope in the longer term is that any of these added supports can be integrated into our "Universal OS9.x" project so as to take much of the confusion and hassle out of the ATI support issue.

Offline macStuff

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2018, 08:57:24 AM »
If anyone is interested and is not able to perform that small modification on their own drop me a line and I can upload an archive of all the ATI extensions I am running right now.

so is all that is required is to edit the extensions with a text editor? to swap device ids?

these files you can attach to a post here easily in a .sit stuffit file
im hoping this can help me with my "Mac Radeon 9200 LE" RV280-powered PCI card
in order to get accelleration working.
thanks!!!

aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

Offline darthnVader

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2018, 09:18:32 PM »
If anyone is interested and is not able to perform that small modification on their own drop me a line and I can upload an archive of all the ATI extensions I am running right now.

so is all that is required is to edit the extensions with a text editor? to swap device ids?

these files you can attach to a post here easily in a .sit stuffit file
im hoping this can help me with my "Mac Radeon 9200 LE" RV280-powered PCI card
in order to get accelleration working.
thanks!!!

Do a google search for Super Resedit with Forker. Hexedit can also edit the Data fork, that's where the device id's live.

Don't use OS X Hexedit to edit the data fork, it will corrupt the extension.

 

Offline macStuff

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2018, 07:45:47 AM »
if this trick works for Radeon 9200/9250 (RV280) cards

then is it possible to get working os9 2D accell on a radeon 9800 pro
any of the cards above RV280 using a similar hack?
editing the drivers themselves?

i hope that user Bolle can better document his process for us all to learn from?
which program was used to edit the extensions?

ie: Radeon 95x0 (R300), 9600 (RV350), 9800 Pro (R360)

Quote
Radeon 9500   Desktop   3/2003   150 nm   R300
Radeon 9500 PRO   Desktop   10/2002   150 nm   R300
Radeon 9550   Desktop   10/2003   130 nm   RV350
Radeon 9550 SE   Desktop   3/2003   130 nm   RV350
Radeon 9600   Desktop   10/2003   130 nm   RV350
Radeon 9600 PRO   Desktop   10/2003   130 nm   RV350 / RV360
Radeon 9600 SE   Desktop   10/2003   130 nm   RV350
Radeon 9600 XT   Desktop   10/2003   130 nm   RV360
Radeon 9700   Desktop   7/2002   150 nm   R300
Radeon 9700 PRO   Desktop   7/2002   150 nm   R300
Radeon 9800   Desktop   3/2003   150 nm   R350 / R360
Radeon 9800 PRO   Desktop   3/2003   150 nm   R360
Radeon 9800 PRO 128-bit   Desktop   10/2003   150 nm   R360
Radeon 9800 PRO DDR2   Desktop   3/2003   150 nm   R350
Radeon 9800 SE   Desktop   3/2003   150 nm   R350 / R360
Radeon 9800 XL   Desktop   3/2003   150 nm   R350
Radeon 9800 XT   Desktop   10/2003   150 nm   R360
-- http://www.gpuzoo.com/GPU-ATI/index.html

on an unrelated note a friend of mine used a 9550 in a Sawtooth and it worked without even flashing!
i was pretty surprised to hear.. but of course no 2d Accell in os9
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 06:02:58 AM by macStuff »
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Offline macStuff

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atimacunderground.freeservers.com
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2018, 06:00:25 AM »
i just found this page on the web archive backup
https://web.archive.org/web/20010802230919/http://atimacunderground.freeservers.com/instructions.html

does anyone know any other long-lost resources with information on flashing + rom reducing?
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Offline macStuff

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2018, 01:47:08 PM »
I flashed the card with the reduced R127 ROM from the macelite downloads.
Device ID 5961 is a 9200SE, which is very similar to the 9250. This is why I chose to replace that one. Plenty of other choices but this seemed to be the closest match from a hardware point of view.

In the meanwhile I put up the whole set of extensions I have installed to get accelerated video here if someone wants to play with it: http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/ati-radeon-9250-mac-os-9-drivers

perhaps if user Bolle would be so kind to share which exact make/model of 9200SE he used when creating these drivers?
a picture would be great ?? Bolle?
was this an AGP card? or a PCI?
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Offline trag

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2018, 05:26:15 PM »
This may already be well known, but just in case...

On the R7000, most of the PC cards have a Flash chip which is half the capacity of the Flash chips on Mac cards.   One can flash with a reduced installer, but I found it was easiest (for me) to just get a new M25P10 and replace the M25P05 on the board.

Because I have a chip programmer, I would pre-program the new chip with the Mac firmware, but there was also one Mac installer released by ATI which will flash a blank chip.   I can't remember which one it was any more.  I think it had '08' in it's version number.

I was also able to get the drivers to work in 8.6 with some fiddling and hand moving of extensions.   I have a write-up on that I could upload if anyone is interested.   It was basically a CDROM of drivers in folders I sent along with the R7000 when I sold them on Ebay and instructions on how to get the drivers to work for the different OSs.   I don't remember many of the details now, but at the time I put some effort into getting the detials right.

I haven't done a 9250 yet, but from the information I've read at themacelite and Strange Dogs, I think replacing the Flash would also be the easiest route, although those resistors must be moved too, apparently.

Unfortunately, the ST M25P10 is out of production.   None available at Mouser nor Digi-Key.   Grrr.   Time marches by too quickly for lovers of old equipment....

Offline SDG

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2018, 10:37:33 AM »
The firmware revision I flashed on my 7000 cards was 226. I understand 208 and 1xx are also floating around the internet. My understanding was that 208 couldn't be flashed. You had to use an earlier revision then update within Mac OS 9.

As for the M25P10V chips, I found a seller from Poland on eBay last year. 10 chips cost me about 6.50 shipped.

Offline trag

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2018, 01:16:14 PM »
My ancient and creaky memory says that the 208 flasher would actually flash a blank M25P10 installed on the R7000 and then one could update from there.    So, desolder original, PC, Flash (probably a M25P05), solder in blank M25P10, flash on Mac with ATI's on flasher for version 2.08 firmware -- I think.    The digits 08 are firmly in my memory as the sweet updater.  Can't remember the surrounding details too well, adn I may just be delusional with time.

I have a nice chip programmer, so I usually went ahead and pre-programmed the chips anyway, out of some kind of OCD need to have an extra step, or maybe as an excuse to use my chip programmer.

Offline SDG

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2018, 02:28:59 PM »
I haven't done a 9250 yet, but from the information I've read at themacelite and Strange Dogs, I think replacing the Flash would also be the easiest route, although those resistors must be moved too, apparently.

I have done a 9250 a couple of weeks ago. I bought a 9200 PCI that turned out to be a Sapphire 9250 and looked very similar to the common Sapphire 7000 that is easily converted to a Mac version. The 9250 required replacing the eeprom chip with an M25P10 and moving a couple of resistors across on the back. All in all, not really any more work than a 7000 needs.

One thing to watch for. The Sapphire 9250 card I had only had a couple of the VRAM positions filled with 2 remaining blank. The card was 128MB on paper but after flashing the Mac only saw 64MB of VRAM. Turns out it is a high density RAM issue similar to that with the G3 PowerBooks. Macs only like low density RAM and only recognise half the quantity if high density is used.

As for the Mac 2.08 updater for the Radeon 7000, my info came from the text that accompanied the PC flasher (ATIflash or flashrom). That required you to overwrite the PC firmware with a dummy Mac firmware otherwise the Mac updater would not see the card as updatable. This was before the full 2.08 firmware was located that could be flashed straight onto the card using above DOS utilities.

Excerpt from README as follows:

Quote
NOTE: This Mac ROM won't actually make the card usable in a Mac yet. It will, however, allow you to use the Mac ATI 208 ROM UPDATER 2000 on the Mac to update the ROM to one which will let the card work. This Mac updater won't run on the PC card right out of the box, I've tried it and it doesn't work. Flashing it in a PC is necessary to change the ROM to a certain extent so that the Mac flasher will allow the ROM to be flashed...

...NEW:
You may use the M208FULL.BIN ROM for flashing ALL in one step. No need to flash on MAC with ATI 208 ROM UPDATER !!!!
FLASHROM -pm x m208full.bin -f



Perhaps it blanks the eeprom, which is all the Mac updater wants. I have no idea. I was just surprised to find that my cards ended up with firmware revision 226, which seems to be the last one I can find.

Offline macStuff

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2018, 04:18:13 AM »
does anyone know how to unlock the rom ?
im trying to flash a mac pci graphics card back to a pc rom to go inside an old pentium 75 vintage machine i built
but i cant get it to let me unlock the rom using flashrom (DOS)
it says the rom is locked!
is there some type of hardware lock that has to be performed? shorting of pins?

the thing is its a radeon 7000 that i know was a pc sapphire card thats been flashed to mac.. so it must be flashable..
unless they somehow burned + swapped actual chip via resolder? but i dont think so

all this because my ATI mach 64 has a broken inductor missing one of the RGB channels so the graphics all come out yellow
maybe i should just worry about soldering on a new inductor to repair this card
i read that a radeon 7k or 9200 is not really an ideal card for win9x anyway but they are the only conventional pci graphics cards i have
i wish i could flash one of my rage 128 oem B+W g3 cards.. but havent cracked that nut yet either;  rage 128 graphics would be alot better to use
than mach 64 probably
http://web.archive.org/web/20160605061237/http://lowendmac.com/1999/ati-rage-128-mac-edition/
does anyone know of anyone ever flashing this oem card for the B+W g3 to work in a pc?


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Offline macStuff

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2018, 12:21:42 PM »
wow i actually got it to work by downloading a million different versions of ATIFLASH program untill after 10 different versions i found the version that lets you use atiflash -unlockrom and it worked great!

got the radeon 7000 64mb card reflashed back to PC and its inside my pentium 75 vintage machine now..working perfectly!
 8)
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Offline DieHard

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Re: flashing + mods for various cards for os9 (9250, 9000, 7000)
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2018, 08:45:45 AM »
Awesome ! :)

Can you attach the set of files that worked for future reference...