Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 363505 times)

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1275 on: April 04, 2021, 02:44:03 PM »
Has anyone diagnosed the cause of the flashing ?-mark (and boot failure)?

diagnosis always has to be done for the concrete in-patient, not in general.

the flashing mark simply means "i cant find a valid boot partition" and that can be caused by a bunch of things, starting from a wrong ROM version, a corrupt PRAM, issues with the IDE, SATA oder firewire bus, or issues with the physical drive.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline quantum8

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1276 on: April 05, 2021, 11:03:19 PM »
Finally got around to installing this on my 1.5GHz mini and seems to work great apart from sound.

Sound doesn't seem to work for me at all. I can select built-in from the control panel, but cannot adjust the main volume at all. If I move the slider to the right, the menu bar flashes and the volume returns to zero.

I've also tried plugging in a USB sound adapter which works with no drivers on my Cube, but I get the same thing as built-in option: I can select "USB Audio" but cannot adjust the volume at all. Is this a limitation to this install?

Update: well audio works in games such as Quake so I guess it's a limitation in finder?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 12:09:42 AM by quantum8 »

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1277 on: April 09, 2021, 08:44:10 PM »
the way how the system audioīs volume is controlled doesnt work with that hardware.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline bamdad

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1278 on: April 10, 2021, 05:17:08 AM »
Finally got around to installing this on my 1.5GHz mini and seems to work great apart from sound.

Sound doesn't seem to work for me at all. I can select built-in from the control panel, but cannot adjust the main volume at all. If I move the slider to the right, the menu bar flashes and the volume returns to zero.

I've also tried plugging in a USB sound adapter which works with no drivers on my Cube, but I get the same thing as built-in option: I can select "USB Audio" but cannot adjust the volume at all. Is this a limitation to this install?

Update: well audio works in games such as Quake so I guess it's a limitation in finder?

i know your pain. actually only the alert sounds don't work, but almost everything in the finder is considered that.

my solution was to get an 'm-audio transit USB' from ebay. drivers are available from this site. with that everythign works (just make sure to leave the 'optical' dummy plug in place). however, it's bulky, ugly, and needs its own USB power which is quite hard to achieve with only 2 USB ports on the mini.

i'm still hoping that someone will find a way to use the internal speaker for all sounds, but that is highly unlikely. as the previous poster said, there is no hardware mixer to control, and implementing a software one would need insane development efforts into reverse-engineering the complete sound hardware and writing an OS 9-specific system extension for it. : (

Offline ToddH

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 16
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1279 on: April 11, 2021, 06:54:57 AM »
I upgraded the monitor on my desk to a nice 32" LG 4K and now my G4 Mini will no longer even give me the option for 720P or 1080P any longer. Highest res I can choose is 1024x768. Trying to find a solution but no luck so far.

Have you tried using SwitchRes 2? It's supposed to let you set any resolution the GPU supports, regardless of the monitor, or specify custom resolutions/timings:

https://www.madrau.com/SRXv3/html/SR2/About.html

If you click on the "Register" page, the author gives a free registration key for the OS 9 version.

I did but no joy. Still only get 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, and 1280x1024 as options even under Switchres 2. I'm just using 1280x1024 since it seems to scale pretty nicely to 4K. Do miss the widescreen modes though.

Edit: And now 1080P is showing and working. Very weird.

Edit 2: After running in 1080P for a couple of minutes the screen starts showing more and more sparkles. Dropping back down to 1280x1024 makes them go away. Starting to wonder if the video card in this mini has issues.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 04:23:18 PM by ToddH »

Offline arnyekveto

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1280 on: April 17, 2021, 02:42:56 AM »
Hi,

sorry for TR;DL -> mac mini G4 works OOB with digital DVI cable using full native resolution with v9 installer.

after my older post here where I did experimentation with the silent upgrade G4 Mini with OS9 v8, v9 installer, I stuck totally in regards of VGA/Display with my WSXGA+ 1680x1050 Samsung monitor. I cannot acquire the native resolution, for the WSXGA+ image ratio resolutions every second vertical pixel line disappears, so at full resolution which is 1680x1050 the machine sends 840x1080 dvi signal, then for example 1027x768 works correctly, but any other smaller resolution that has the same ratio as WSXGA+ having every second vertical line disappearing.

I grabbed my older 1.25 GHz Mini again, installed 128 GB mSata->IDE drive in it. I grabbed my DVI cable this time, no dvi-to-vga converter this time, using my Samsung WSXGA+ monitor 1680x1050px.

Why? Because when I boot from v9 CD, the monitor have native resolution via the digital cable!!! Period.

So I first booted from v9 CD, initialized HDD then did the software resotre install... the usual way, as the manual says. Side note, when booting from CD I have native resolution with digital cable, I have the  red ATI icon near the clock, with its small acceleration menu, and the display is truly 2d accelerated.

After booting the fresh install from internal drive, the installed OS9 does not have the  red ATI accelerator icon, also visible no 2d acceleration present when dragging windows. As expected I don't have native resolution, I have non WSXGA+ image ratio resolutions, I see 1900x1200, 1280x800 etc resolutions that are cropped or not working at all.

So, based on release notes, a newer ATi display driver extension was applied in the v9 installer as well inside the macintosh.hdd image in the Configuration folder. This newer driver having a regression.

What I did I booted again from v9 CD installer disc, initialized again the internal drive, then I drag-and-dropped everything from the v9 CD onto the empty internal-drive, then rebooted.

My internal drive boots the very same os9 that the v9 installer CD have, so I have perferct native resolution via digital cable, red ATi accelerator icon present and 2d acceleration works. :-)

Well after tinkering with this exremely stripped down OS9 that comes directly from v9 CD, to make everything fully working I had to mount the macintosh.hdd from the v9 installer and drag-and-drop the carbonlib and the stuffit extension into my systme folder.

After this, I installed my usual combo, Illustrator9, Photoshop6 and 4, Painter7ProCreate, KPT3/5, Eyecandy, there is no issue so far after 2 weeks of daily usage rendering fractals with kpt5 on 12000x8000 px RGB, doing vector graphics, etc... in regards of extensions no other extension was missing besides stuffit and carbonlib to make this mini again full OS9 graphical workstation with proper full resolution via digital cable! Period.
Due to mstata ssd and having the minimal extensions and machine having Ultra-ATA100 speed, boot to full desktop is 20-25 seconds. Clicking on PS4 it starts up in 4-5 seconds in total.

One, small glitch: sometimes image is not present unless OS9 fully boots into desktop (monitor seeking digital signal), sometimes display is OK from the beginning of the boot (small mac icon smiling in gray background) and I can see OS9 progress bar and loading extensions. I re-booted so far 100 times, the conclusion is: 50% of the cases display is blank until OS booted into desktop fully, 25% cases I can see small mac smiling from the very early stage, the rest of the cases my monitor starts displaying image when extensions are almost loaded. What I can 100% sure say, when I switch on the OS9 mini the worst case 2 minutes later I will have my fully native resolution via digital cable. All the time!

Side note: I can add back slowly extensions and supplementary folders from macintosh.hdd image from v9 CD until I have again the stripe on the desktop, more preference panes, etc... what is show stopper overwriting the ati* extensions from the hdd image, or upgrading with the ati display drivers upgrade packs...

I do not use sound apps, though one who gonna go for a audio workstation, will use anyway firewire or usb external sound card with own drivers.

The monitor preferences app is totally not the same, it seems a very ancient prefpane with white background... tho It works out of the box, I have the full native resolution and a few smaller ones, all working.

Cheers!






Offline quantum8

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1281 on: May 04, 2021, 03:52:10 PM »
Just wondering if there's a way to dual boot this between OS9 and OSX on separate disks?

I'm running my setup a little differently to most; using an IDE to SD adapter with an extension ribbon so I can change the SD disk easily.

Would I be able to just take the OS9 SD out, put a new one in and install OSX, or will I come up against OF issues?

Offline quantum8

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1282 on: May 04, 2021, 03:53:16 PM »
the way how the system audioīs volume is controlled doesnt work with that hardware.

OK thanks, thought that might be the case.

Offline helixnrg

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1283 on: June 03, 2021, 04:49:50 AM »
Hi all!

I took a couple of years back that Mac OS 9 on a Mac Mini was now achievable. After some successful SSD replacements for some iMac G3s, I'm keen to give the Mac Mini 1.2Ghz model I have a whirl, especially with Mac OS 9, but the download link on:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4365.0.html

doesn't seem to work anymore. Can anyone point me to the .ISO or the .sit that contains all the updated System files that'll make an existing Mac OS 9 install work with the Mac Mini?

Thanks in advance!

Alex

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 262
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 18
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1284 on: June 03, 2021, 04:53:54 AM »
Hi all!

I took a couple of years back that Mac OS 9 on a Mac Mini was now achievable. After some successful SSD replacements for some iMac G3s, I'm keen to give the Mac Mini 1.2Ghz model I have a whirl, especially with Mac OS 9, but the download link on:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4365.0.html

doesn't seem to work anymore. Can anyone point me to the .ISO or the .sit that contains all the updated System files that'll make an existing Mac OS 9 install work with the Mac Mini?

Thanks in advance!

Alex

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2408.msg43581.html#msg43581

Offline helixnrg

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1285 on: June 03, 2021, 05:03:27 AM »
Hmmmm...it's not working for me from Melbourne, Australia. I've tried latest versions of Safari, Chrome and Firefox, but all I see is:

Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 262
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 18
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1286 on: June 03, 2021, 05:29:23 AM »
Hmmmm...it's not working for me from Melbourne, Australia. I've tried latest versions of Safari, Chrome and Firefox, but all I see is:

Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Try the google drive links from Reply #1267, should jump to it from the link.

Offline helixnrg

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1287 on: June 03, 2021, 08:43:09 PM »
Awesome, thank you so much! Installing OS 9 on my Mac Mini now!

Could we update the original post with these Google Drive links instead?

Alex

Offline xc68000

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1288 on: August 17, 2021, 09:25:48 AM »
Hello - Need some help here.  I have 2 G4 mini's and i've tried to install the v9 9.2.2 image but have run into a problem i can't get past.

I have both a 1.25ghz mini and a 1.5 super mini and both have the same issue.

Booting the 9.2.2 v9 DVD works but as soon as the drive utility starts, i loose mouse function.  I can click the mouse but cannot move it.

I *think* this issue is because neither of my mac mini's have drives that have the os9 drivers on them.

I have a 10.4.6 DVD but it does not give me the option of installing OS9 drivers on the disk.  I can't use the OS9 v9 disk utility because the mouse will not move.

So I'm sorta stuck.  Any thoughts?

Offline DieHard

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2069
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 30
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1289 on: August 17, 2021, 09:35:14 AM »
Quote
Booting the 9.2.2 v9 DVD works but as soon as the drive utility starts, i loose mouse function.  I can click the mouse but cannot move it.

There are documented mouse issues (exactly how you describe), but usually they are not as often as you are describing.... a few possible fixes...

1) if you have a genuine white apple mouse, use that
2) if you have a genuine apple keyboard (that you can plug the mouse into) try that
3) if you mouse is already in the keyboard, try plugging it into the mini directly
4) while the mouse is "paralyzed" unplug it while leaving the mini on, put it into the other USB and/or re-plug it in

I had the exact issues and while it was frozen I switched it to an apple mouse and it un-froze

Offline xc68000

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1290 on: August 17, 2021, 09:44:36 AM »
I will try that.  I am using a MacAlley usb keyboard and mouse that i purchased recently and the mouse is a two button scroll wheel mouse.  I have a genuine apple keyboard on the way and i will try and source an original apple mouse to go with it.

Offline Greystash

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 171
  • Too many Macs..
    • Mac Classic, Mac Attic
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 145
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1291 on: August 17, 2021, 02:34:28 PM »
I will try that.  I am using a MacAlley usb keyboard and mouse that i purchased recently and the mouse is a two button scroll wheel mouse.  I have a genuine apple keyboard on the way and i will try and source an original apple mouse to go with it.

I've had this issue a lot but I now use my imac G3 Keyboard which has a power button. It means I can fully boot the system with a frozen mouse but I can press the power button to safely shut off/restart the machine only using the keyboard. That way I don't need to forcefully turn it off and it won't corrupt anything. After the one restart it usually un-freezes for me.

Offline xc68000

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1292 on: August 22, 2021, 10:03:33 AM »
Does the v9 disk have USBOverdrive as a default extension?

I ask because I found another os9 dvd that someone put together that worked perfectly, however after the install i added USBOverdrive and the exact issue with the cursor disappearing and button still working manifested.

Oddly, even disabling the 2 extensions and control panel for USBOverdrive did not fix it and I ended up reinstalling.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1293 on: August 22, 2021, 12:23:48 PM »
yes, they included it with the mini CD.

but one have to say that a 3 button mouse normally works without third party software. the wheel does what it should, and left is alt by default. only if you want to change that or if you have issues with the speed using the original driver (or when there is no driver for OS9) you needed usboverdrive.

i cant really comment on the "mac mini mouse bug", but i *think* it is mostly releated to the type of mouse, and usboverdrive wont fix much.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1294 on: August 22, 2021, 12:25:03 PM »
...
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline xc68000

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1295 on: August 22, 2021, 12:43:45 PM »
So the boot part of the v9 image has a USB Device Extension dated 2012 and 399KB.  It also has the USB Overdrive Control Panel.

I made a new image and replaced the USB Device Extension with one dated 2002 396k (Version 1.5.9) and the mouse works fine when booting up the CD image.

The restore image part of the install has the 2002 396KB v1.5.9 and no USB Overdrive control panel.

I'm quite certain that the wider "mouse sometimes freezes at boot" issue is different than the issue I resolved as my mouse hang issue was reproduceable 100% of the time booting the v9 install image.




Offline teroyk

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 465
  • -
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1296 on: August 24, 2021, 12:03:53 PM »
...
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline teroyk

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 465
  • -
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1297 on: August 24, 2021, 12:06:57 PM »
I made a new image and replaced the USB Device Extension with one dated 2002 396k (Version 1.5.9) and the mouse works fine when booting up the CD image.
The restore image part of the install has the 2002 396KB v1.5.9 and no USB Overdrive control panel.

I have never understand why use USB Overdrive for mouse. Logitech mouse driver is better, scroll wheel works with that.
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline zefrenchtoon

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1298 on: August 26, 2021, 07:44:24 AM »
Hi guys (and girls) !
What if I tell you that Bluetooth is working on OS9 on my mini ?
Ok ok ok, only with keyboards and mouse.  ::)

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1299 on: August 27, 2021, 11:40:31 AM »
I have never understand why use USB Overdrive for mouse. Logitech mouse driver is better, scroll wheel works with that.

you can switch right-click and mid-click with it.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline xc68000

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1300 on: August 28, 2021, 11:35:09 AM »
I don't appear to be able to create a RAM disk with my 9.2.2 v9 install.  The control panel works but the disk is never created.  I'm trying to create a small one so I can enable VM (mini g4 has 1gb).

EDIT 8/29:  Confirming that I cannot create a RAM Disk on my 1.5ghz super mini, but using the same drive I can on my 1.25hz mini.  Perhaps there is something different between the two machines that prevents this.

Can someone with a 1.5 silent upgrade mini try creating a RAM disk in v9?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 09:49:56 AM by xc68000 »

Offline kokakoda

  • Member
  • Posts: 1
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1301 on: August 31, 2021, 07:53:02 PM »
Quote
Booting the 9.2.2 v9 DVD works but as soon as the drive utility starts, i loose mouse function.  I can click the mouse but cannot move it.

There are documented mouse issues (exactly how you describe), but usually they are not as often as you are describing.... a few possible fixes...

1) if you have a genuine white apple mouse, use that
2) if you have a genuine apple keyboard (that you can plug the mouse into) try that
3) if you mouse is already in the keyboard, try plugging it into the mini directly
4) while the mouse is "paralyzed" unplug it while leaving the mini on, put it into the other USB and/or re-plug it in

I had the exact issues and while it was frozen I switched it to an apple mouse and it un-froze

Just to add to this, I only have generic PC keyboards and mice and had the same issue. What I ended up doing was booting the disc while holding 'shift' to load without extensions. Was surprised that worked - can't boot disc with C or access Startup Manager with Alt and was close to giving up.

Offline ELN

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 295
  • new to the forums
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1302 on: September 02, 2021, 10:18:12 PM »
jumping in to make sure that some things arenít forgotten.

The issue that sometimes prevents the cursor from moving but allows it to click the Apple menu: in my experience, this only happens when a widely circulated archive of ďpatchedĒ ATI drivers is installed. Long post a couple of years ago. Use the vanilla drivers.

A blinking question mark usually means that the boot disk hasnít been formatted with the ďMac OS 9 DriversĒ. I wrote a patch to fix it, but honestly the easiest fix is just to wipe your disk with Drive Setup. Another cause is a hardware fault, namely a hard drive that returns a lot of read errors.

Offline zefrenchtoon

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1303 on: September 04, 2021, 05:40:57 AM »
In case of you did not see it, here is a thead about getting sound working on mini using cheap USB audio adapters:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5952.0.html

Offline vacheuk

  • Member
  • Posts: 1
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1304 on: September 06, 2021, 06:23:58 AM »
Just wondering if there's a way to dual boot this between OS9 and OSX on separate disks?

I'm running my setup a little differently to most; using an IDE to SD adapter with an extension ribbon so I can change the SD disk easily.

Would I be able to just take the OS9 SD out, put a new one in and install OSX, or will I come up against OF issues?

Just in case you still wanted to know, yes I think this should work.

I have a IDE->CF adapter with a 32Gb card in mine.  I partitioned in two equal parts. First disk I installed OS9. Then I installed OSX 10.4 on the second partition.

It boots to OSX by default but I can access OS9 from the menu using Option key on boot.  Neither OS recognises the other in Startup Disk so afaik it's boot menu only. However both of the actual partitions are visible and usable in both OSs.

Offline Bolkonskij

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 183
  • Embrace true personal computing!
    • Cornica.org
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 68
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1305 on: October 18, 2021, 11:50:03 PM »
I've been given a Mac Mini G4 by a generous soul. As I'm trying out OS9 on it (works great thus far!) I noticed a very strange issue.

Sometimes when switching applications some won't accept any keyboard input. So I can e.g. chat on the Hotline Client but at the same time SimpleText will not accept my keystrokes.

I'm using an Apple Pro Keyboard directly connected to the USB port of the Mini. Using a German keyboard layout at the moment.I noticed, however, that keyboard detection will work again if I switch e.g. to a U.S. keyboard layout.

Something wrong with the German keyboard layout? Is this a known issue? Does anyone know where it is stored in the System Folder? (in Regions & language support?) Thinking about replacing it with the version from a regular OS9.2.2 install disc.
Cornica
Video Entertainment for Mac OS users!

System 7 Today
All you ever wanted to know about System 7

Bolkonskijs Cheat Emporium
Building the ultimate cheats & tips site for Mac OS

Mac Mini G4, 1.42 Ghz, 1 GB RAM
Power Mac 8600 / 200, 192 MB RAM, TwinTurbo 128MA
Mac IIci, 68030 @ 40 Mhz, 32 MB RAM, SCSI2SD 5.1, RaSCSI

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1306 on: October 19, 2021, 05:47:42 AM »
It boots to OSX by default but I can access OS9 from the menu using Option key on boot.  Neither OS recognises the other in Startup Disk so afaik it's boot menu only. However both of the actual partitions are visible and usable in both OSs.

that is exactly how it is.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1307 on: October 19, 2021, 06:16:33 AM »
I noticed, however, that keyboard detection will work again if I switch e.g. to a U.S. keyboard layout.

i know that symptome, and this fix for it, only from windows OS.

all i can do is guessing: changing the layout probably reinvokes the USB driver or something in that area.

regarding location: keybord layouts of type "kfil" must be located IN the System file.

you can also remove the factory content from the system, but please leave at least one inside. :)


and nobody asked for this... but you can even copy the KCHR resource from a kfil into a "localized" file of OSX in order to run something there which does not exist for OSX.

might be useful only for people from georgia or owners of a digidesign protools keyboard.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline Bolkonskij

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 183
  • Embrace true personal computing!
    • Cornica.org
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 68
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1308 on: October 26, 2021, 09:13:48 AM »
Thanks for the info! I've since activated the keyboard shortcuts to switch between German and U.S., so a quick switch back and forth solves the problem. The problem does not occur so often that it would get too annoying, so I can cope with that.

What is more annoying is that the German keyboard layout and its mapping are incorrect? I do not have this problem with 9.2.2 on the MDD. It's only on the Mini. For instance, if I hit the key for ≤ ≥ which is located to the right of the left shift key on a German Apple Pro keyboard, I get the character ^ printed.

I used an oldie-but-goldie, ASCII Chart, to show me all characters in the font. It shows me < and > as being present, but the key gets incorrectly mapped when I press it. I haven't ever run into a problem like this so I figure it's a Mini 9.2.2 specific problem.

Can somebody else reproduce the problem?
Is there an easy fix for this kind of mapping problem?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2021, 09:24:12 AM by Bolkonskij »
Cornica
Video Entertainment for Mac OS users!

System 7 Today
All you ever wanted to know about System 7

Bolkonskijs Cheat Emporium
Building the ultimate cheats & tips site for Mac OS

Mac Mini G4, 1.42 Ghz, 1 GB RAM
Power Mac 8600 / 200, 192 MB RAM, TwinTurbo 128MA
Mac IIci, 68030 @ 40 Mhz, 32 MB RAM, SCSI2SD 5.1, RaSCSI

Offline bamdad

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1309 on: October 26, 2021, 11:18:52 AM »
Thanks for the info! I've since activated the keyboard shortcuts to switch between German and U.S., so a quick switch back and forth solves the problem. The problem does not occur so often that it would get too annoying, so I can cope with that.

What is more annoying is that the German keyboard layout and its mapping are incorrect? I do not have this problem with 9.2.2 on the MDD. It's only on the Mini. For instance, if I hit the key for ≤ ≥ which is located to the right of the left shift key on a German Apple Pro keyboard, I get the character ^ printed.

I used an oldie-but-goldie, ASCII Chart, to show me all characters in the font. It shows me < and > as being present, but the key gets incorrectly mapped when I press it. I haven't ever run into a problem like this so I figure it's a Mini 9.2.2 specific problem.

Can somebody else reproduce the problem?
Is there an easy fix for this kind of mapping problem?

here's a quick fix for that (i've done it already on multiple machines because of some ANSI<>ISO problems:
- make a copy of your 'system' suitcase (in the system folder)
- open it in resedit
- open the KCHR group
- open the keyboard layout you want to edit (in your case it's probably german)
- drag and drop the desired characters to the keyboard on the bottom
- quit and save
- dropstuff your original system suitcase or just put it out of the system folder (but store it in a safe place)
- move the edited one in and make sure it's named 'System' and not something like 'System copy'

there, done.. :)

Offline Bolkonskij

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 183
  • Embrace true personal computing!
    • Cornica.org
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 68
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1310 on: October 26, 2021, 11:39:12 AM »
Great one, thanks! Didn't work as intended (though it certainly will in most cases), but it helps narrowing down the problem, which is:



The Apple Pro Keyboard isn't identified as such?

Cornica
Video Entertainment for Mac OS users!

System 7 Today
All you ever wanted to know about System 7

Bolkonskijs Cheat Emporium
Building the ultimate cheats & tips site for Mac OS

Mac Mini G4, 1.42 Ghz, 1 GB RAM
Power Mac 8600 / 200, 192 MB RAM, TwinTurbo 128MA
Mac IIci, 68030 @ 40 Mhz, 32 MB RAM, SCSI2SD 5.1, RaSCSI

Offline zefrenchtoon

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1311 on: October 26, 2021, 01:25:49 PM »
Hi!
About keyboard on mini, I have another strange behavior on mine. I am using a keyboard from an iMac CRT, the last one with the power on button. This keyboard works perfectly on my Yikes but not on my mini. I have to power on the mini using its own switch. The one on the keyboard does nothing. :(

Does anyone have an idea ?

Offline brirec

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 10
  • new to the forums
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1312 on: October 27, 2021, 04:13:06 AM »
Hi!
About keyboard on mini, I have another strange behavior on mine. I am using a keyboard from an iMac CRT, the last one with the power on button. This keyboard works perfectly on my Yikes but not on my mini. I have to power on the mini using its own switch. The one on the keyboard does nothing. :(

Does anyone have an idea ?

Unfortunately, so far as Iím aware only iMac G3ís, B&W G3ís, and Yikes! G4ís can be powered on via the keyboard. I can say for certain that later models simply ignore the keyboard entirely while off.

Offline Bolkonskij

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 183
  • Embrace true personal computing!
    • Cornica.org
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 68
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1313 on: October 28, 2021, 09:34:13 PM »
No one with an ideas as to what causes this problem or a possible cure?

Tried the obvious stuff (plugging in/out etc.). Works fine in OSX 10.4, keyboard also works fine on another Mac. Definitely has to do with the 9.2.2 on the Mini.

Appreciate any help!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 12:51:32 AM by Bolkonskij »
Cornica
Video Entertainment for Mac OS users!

System 7 Today
All you ever wanted to know about System 7

Bolkonskijs Cheat Emporium
Building the ultimate cheats & tips site for Mac OS

Mac Mini G4, 1.42 Ghz, 1 GB RAM
Power Mac 8600 / 200, 192 MB RAM, TwinTurbo 128MA
Mac IIci, 68030 @ 40 Mhz, 32 MB RAM, SCSI2SD 5.1, RaSCSI

Offline bamdad

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1314 on: October 29, 2021, 01:22:25 AM »
No one with an ideas as to what causes this problem or a possible cure?

Tried the obvious stuff (plugging in/out etc.). Works fine in OSX 10.4, keyboard also works fine on another Mac. Definitely has to do with the 9.2.2 on the Mini.

Appreciate any help!
your problem seems to be that your keyboard is not detected as an ISO one by the system for some reason. i've had this problem the other way around, i.e. using an ANSI keyboard with an european (hu in my case) layout, which is simpler to fix, because ANSI has less keys.

in your case, this detection is handled by the system which should happen automatically (because it's USB). i don't know whether this is done at the firmware / ROM / low system level or by an extension.
in the prior case you should contact the guys making the mini iso. in the latter case, however, you could try copying the USB extensions from your working machine and test if that helps.

anyway, someone more knowledgeable about how input device detection is handled in the classic mac OS should chime in about this.. : )

Offline brirec

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 10
  • new to the forums
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1315 on: October 29, 2021, 07:43:28 AM »
9.2.2 has no layouts or real support for that model of Apple keyboard. It just came out way before it.

If you really want to use an Apple keyboard, buy an old Apple Pro keyboard.

Offline bamdad

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1316 on: October 29, 2021, 12:03:19 PM »
9.2.2 has no layouts or real support for that model of Apple keyboard. It just came out way before it.

If you really want to use an Apple keyboard, buy an old Apple Pro keyboard.


i'm sorry but that is just not true. i've used all sorts of USB keyboards in OS 8/9 macs without problems, even modern mechanical ones and modern USB2ADB converters. the OS should be able to determine basic info like the number of reported keys and layout information without problems. this is a bug.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1317 on: October 31, 2021, 12:24:55 PM »
i'm sorry but that is just not true. i've used all sorts of USB keyboards in OS 8/9 macs without problems, even modern mechanical ones and modern USB2ADB converters.

Bolkonskijīs problem is that the mac mini keyboard does not have a > key, but the G4 pro keyboard has one.

that an operating system is able to detect that there is a keyboard, does not help with missing entries or alternated language kits.

though i must admit that i have no idea what apple was thinking when they did this, or what exactly causes his issue.

while i havent tried it with german yet, i can confirm that the US keyboard layout of our mini OS works with my G4 keyboard just fine.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1318 on: October 31, 2021, 12:32:09 PM »
About keyboard on mini, I have another strange behavior on mine. I am using a keyboard from an iMac CRT, the last one with the power on button.

support for power on/off from keyboard has officially ended with the beige G3, or in other words, since USB.

i have no idea why it works with the b/w G4s, and afaik i did not at all with the 1st gen imac where these keyboards were delivered with.

that is the one thing which is annoying with the minis: the power button is at the backside.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline zefrenchtoon

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1319 on: October 31, 2021, 01:02:37 PM »
Brirecís answer reminds me a post I have read some month ago. It is written in French but Google can be your friend I think.
Here it is:

https://www.journaldulapin.com/2015/01/22/le-bouton-dallumage-des-claviers-usb-comment-ca-marchait/

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1320 on: October 31, 2021, 01:13:01 PM »
wer von euch macht eigentlich sowas:



insert arbitrary signature here

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1321 on: October 31, 2021, 01:30:07 PM »
Brirecís answer reminds me a post I have read some month ago

this custom usb knob is hilarious yet at the same time quite useful.

i am about to build a hardware solution atm, where a macmini, custom software and custom midi controllers are part of the setup - since there are no hardware equivalents for parts of it - a 16*16 matrix mixer.

the question how to turn on a mini which has been put into a 19" case (without bying something from sonnet and without using the original knob) is one of the open questions - and using an USB cable (literally no costs) would be really cool, because the  you dont have to leave the rackmount encosure open to reach it.

and i just love how he started up with debating weird meta questions about apple keyboards - and in the end he invented an interesting solution for all kind of purposes.

http://laut8leise.de/files/simples%20delay.png
http://laut8leise.de/files/88iger-standalone.png
http://laut8leise.de/files/mischerr.jpg
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline carbon.dragon.0@gmail.com

  • Member
  • Posts: 1
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1322 on: December 15, 2021, 06:01:33 AM »
I thought I'd briefly tell my experience. I bought a G4 Mac Mini from Headgap, an online store that sells reconditioned Macs. I've had Macs since 1984 and certainly had OS9 macs in the past but I was looking for the newest one I could find to make it easier to maintain since I'm not an EE. They warned me that making it boot 9.2 would make the audio problematic. For me, it had no audio when I booted it up (as expected). Also though the headphone jack didn't give me sound. I tried some old Harmon Kardon soundsticks for an old iMac I used to have and that seemed to be recognized, at first. When I moved the machine though, it no longer seemed to recognize them in the control panel. However, the audio did play through them at about a volume of 30%.

I can't change the volume though, and the soundsticks don't have a volume control. It's annoying, but it's more or less what I expected. I mostly got it to run Realmz and perhaps other old Mac software I had (Myst, the Voyager Record, Last Chance to See, etc.). I don't know if anything but Realmz runs yet.

I'll also say that initially, I tried to connect it to a 720P Insignia TV that had a variety of inputs including VGA. That had worked with a HP Mini 2140 netbook I put Linux on but the resolution was quite coarse (looked good though). On the Mini though it gave me the initial splash screen and than it only would say VGA mode not supported. I was using a VGA/DVI adapter to make that connection. So I bought an Apple 20" Cinema Display on eBay which came with the adapter and cables (not all do surprisingly). It has a native DVI connection and was made about the time of the mini so I was hopeful it would work, and it did. The only downside is that the resolution is quite high, 1680 on the high side, which makes OS9 have moderately tiny UI components (but Ok, at least they're razor sharp). Plus the monitor functions as a USB and Firewire hub which is useful. I have to lower the resolution in order to play Realmz or else it's a tiny rectangle on the monitor! ;-)

Anyway, sure I'd like to get the sound to work better, but judging from what I'm hearing here, I'm pretty lucky overall. Maybe some of this will help some of you and maybe we can even get that audio working eventually.

Offline Angelgreat

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1323 on: December 17, 2021, 01:48:47 PM »
Hey, for the iso image of OS9 for Mac Mini, can I burn it into a bootable USB stick and create a bootable USB installer or do I need to burn it to a CD/DVD?

Offline Cashed

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 80
  • ⏺ ⏪ ⏸ ⏩ 🌐
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1324 on: December 17, 2021, 02:09:38 PM »
« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 02:48:57 PM by Cashed »
Browse the Web from ANY Old Tech using ANY Web Browser: FrogFind!68k.news by Action Retro -F/P after Avast update.

Offline thinkpadder

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Cloned Mac mini OS 9 into a new HDD but it doesn't boot
« Reply #1325 on: December 25, 2021, 03:39:26 PM »
Several weeks ago I've installed Mac mini OS 9 onto my Mac mini G4 1.25 and it works perfectly.

Now I've just cloned that OS 9 installation into a new HDD (80GB 4200rpm Seagate Momentus) using the Disk Utility on OS X 10.5.8 and plugged that HDD onto that same Mac mini G4. When I try to boot it, it displays a Floppy Icon with a question mark on it and it doesn't boot.

How to make the cloned Mac mini OS 9 installation boot?

Offline DrNo7

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 67
Re: Cloned Mac mini OS 9 into a new HDD but it doesn't boot
« Reply #1326 on: December 25, 2021, 10:33:17 PM »
Several weeks ago I've installed Mac mini OS 9 onto my Mac mini G4 1.25 and it works perfectly.

Now I've just cloned that OS 9 installation into a new HDD (80GB 4200rpm Seagate Momentus) using the Disk Utility on OS X 10.5.8 and plugged that HDD onto that same Mac mini G4. When I try to boot it, it displays a Floppy Icon with a question mark on it and it doesn't boot.

How to make the cloned Mac mini OS 9 installation boot?

I will have to check again but Disk Utility on Leopard surpports partition's data copy at best (possibly using the dd utility). So the partition table or even OS9 drivers magic could be missing.
So either you can reformat you new disk (making sure it has an Apple partition table and each partition is HFS+ non-journaled with the OS9 drivers checkbox active) and copy again the data. Or you should give a try to the Terminal and use DD on the whole disk (should work as long as both disks are the same size).
Ti 1 GHz / 1 GB / FW SSD / Airport Extreme PCMCIA (triple boot)
Alu 12 1.5GHz / 1.5 GB / 256 GB mSata SSD (dual boot for now)

Offline thinkpadder

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Cloned Mac mini OS 9 into a new HDD but it doesn't boot
« Reply #1327 on: December 26, 2021, 05:09:50 AM »
I will have to check again but Disk Utility on Leopard surpports partition's data copy at best (possibly using the dd utility). So the partition table or even OS9 drivers magic could be missing.
So either you can reformat you new disk (making sure it has an Apple partition table and each partition is HFS+ non-journaled with the OS9 drivers checkbox active) and copy again the data. Or you should give a try to the Terminal and use DD on the whole disk (should work as long as both disks are the same size).

Thank you for the comment.
I've reformatted a new disk, a 60GB Hitachi HDD and partitioned it with APT and HFS+ non-journaled w. the OS9 drivers checkbox selected on DU on Leopard and cloned this time using CarbonCopyCloner. No luck. I've avoided the use of Terminal and the 'dd' tool. Actually I use command tools quite often but in this particular case it seemed beyond me.

Then I did a Google search again and found this link:
Blessing Cloned OS 9 System Folder

It was suggesting:

Just delete the System Folder (on the drive that does not boot). Then copy (using Mac OS 9 Finder) the System Folder from the drive you are trying to reproduce. Try to start up from the newly copied System Folder.
I've tried it right now, and it worked, the cloned OS9 has booted fine but with some small gotcha: The mouse isn't operational. That had happened on the working OS9 too and was gone after a restart.

Offline zefrenchtoon

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: Cloned Mac mini OS 9 into a new HDD but it doesn't boot
« Reply #1328 on: December 28, 2021, 01:31:21 AM »
...
It was suggesting:

Just delete the System Folder (on the drive that does not boot). Then copy (using Mac OS 9 Finder) the System Folder from the drive you are trying to reproduce. Try to start up from the newly copied System Folder.
I've tried it right now, and it worked, the cloned OS9 has booted fine but with some small gotcha: The mouse isn't operational. That had happened on the working OS9 too and was gone after a restart.

There are different faster/easier ways to do the same (without deleting/copying):
 - under OS9 or OSX, take the "System" suitcase off the system folder and then put it back and it should bless the system folder
 - under OSX, using Terminal, there is a CLI tool named "bless" that can bless an entire disk / a partition / a system folder. Its usage is described here and it can bless OS9 or OSX by setting the NVRAM parameter to what you want exactly:  https://ss64.com/osx/bless.html

the second way is very useful because it registers it in NVRAM so you can force your mac mini to boot from os9 each time even if you boot once from OSX. Because the MacMini was not made initially to boot from OS9, if you reboot under OSX then OpenFirmware will remember it next time you (re)boot.

Offline domii

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1329 on: February 27, 2022, 07:30:36 AM »
Just got around to do this - I had overclocked a late model Mac Mini G4 (1.5Ghz) to 1.8Ghz.
Put in a mSata 248GB drive using the white mSATA-Pata adapter.

Booted off a 10.4 Tiger Server DVD I had, and partitioned the drive via Terminal. Created 3 volumes so I could have several OS's installed.

diskutil partitionDisk /dev/disk0 3 OS9Drivers HFS+ MacintoshHD 79.4G JHFS+ Leopard 79.4G JHFS+ Sorbet 79.4G

Had some issues with my monitor using DVI-HDMI cable so I switched to using the DVI-VGA adapter and all was well as per all the recommendations.

It is just a rocket in OS 9 - Wow. Actually performs well in all OS's. Puts my G3 upgraded PowerCenter clone to shame and rivals the MDD.

Great work getting this working, and putting it togther in such an easy installer & bootable CD.

Attaching some benchmarks & pics.


« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 04:03:10 PM by domii »

Offline pfuentes69

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1330 on: March 24, 2022, 06:26:59 AM »
Hello.
Just came here to say "Thank you!"
I have now my Mini 1.5GHz working nicely with Mac OS 9. The sound issue was solved with a super-cheap USB adapter.
 :)

Offline MatthewH12

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1331 on: March 28, 2022, 01:24:06 PM »
I wanted to add my comments in case they help anyone. I just purchased a MacMini G4, 1.42Ghz off eBay, to give this a shot!

1. Initially the system would crash at a bomb right after the boot logo, and before any icons loaded at the bottom, reburning the disc at 1x instead of 16x, fixed this issue.

2. Secondly, I was having the mouse issues listed above, the mouse would work right up until the first icon loaded at the bottom (a USB icon, USB Overdrive maybe?), rebooting with extensions off, the mouse worked fine and I was able to launch the install without further issues.

It's currently restoring, and I'll add further updates to this post as needed.

Edit 1: Mouse works just fine on first boot. It's a TEKNET Wired Mouse, SKU UM013 I got fairly cheap on Amazon.

Edit 2: Audio not working, even with the listed Sabrent adapter. AU-MMSA.

Edit 3: USB Overdrive WAS my mouse issue. Multiple mice wouldn't work with it but I found ONE that did, all it says is TELINK Made in china. Suggest removing USBOverdrive from boot disc?

Edit 4: After fussing with USBOD, I was able to get more mice to work with it but it's not perfect. I just wanted working scroll wheel!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2022, 05:51:51 PM by MatthewH12 »

Offline pfuentes69

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1332 on: March 29, 2022, 04:21:01 AM »
Hello
about the audio issues, I posted this in another thread, but just in case...

I'm using this cheap USB adapter: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001111644497.html

It works quite well. The volume can't be adjusted from the control panel, but it does work and the volume can be controlled from inside the applications or games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kb5qpE-E6w

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1333 on: March 29, 2022, 04:55:00 AM »
it currently costs 0,01 euro?
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline MatthewH12

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1334 on: March 31, 2022, 06:09:30 PM »
Edit 5: Logitech M90 works both during boot & after install (no issues w/ USBOverdrive. The TekNet would work when booted after fussing with USBOverDrive but not during install.

Edit 6: Got a M-Audio Transit, after fussing trying to find the right driver, it works fine as long as it's plugged directly into the Mini, will NOT work through a hub (I tested w/ powered USB2 Hub).

I wanted to add my comments in case they help anyone. I just purchased a MacMini G4, 1.42Ghz off eBay, to give this a shot!

1. Initially the system would crash at a bomb right after the boot logo, and before any icons loaded at the bottom, reburning the disc at 1x instead of 16x, fixed this issue.

2. Secondly, I was having the mouse issues listed above, the mouse would work right up until the first icon loaded at the bottom (a USB icon, USB Overdrive maybe?), rebooting with extensions off, the mouse worked fine and I was able to launch the install without further issues.

It's currently restoring, and I'll add further updates to this post as needed.

Edit 1: Mouse works just fine on first boot. It's a TEKNET Wired Mouse, SKU UM013 I got fairly cheap on Amazon.

Edit 2: Audio not working, even with the listed Sabrent adapter. AU-MMSA.

Edit 3: USB Overdrive WAS my mouse issue. Multiple mice wouldn't work with it but I found ONE that did, all it says is TELINK Made in china. Suggest removing USBOverdrive from boot disc?

Edit 4: After fussing with USBOD, I was able to get more mice to work with it but it's not perfect. I just wanted working scroll wheel!

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1335 on: May 05, 2022, 01:30:21 PM »
You can make 64kB sector size with Silverlining Pro. So APM support at least 256 TB in one drive with Mac OS 9.

hey teyrok,

did you ever actually do this - and can you enlighten me about a a possible issues with irregular sectorsizes causing additionel read operations with every write operation?
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline teroyk

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 465
  • -
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1336 on: May 06, 2022, 01:08:54 AM »
You can make 64kB sector size with Silverlining Pro. So APM support at least 256 TB in one drive with Mac OS 9.
did you ever actually do this - and can you enlighten me about a a possible issues with irregular sectorsizes causing additionel read operations with every write operation?

Actually I tried to test later with 4 TB Firewire-drive, but there was problem that Silverling Pro didn't see that big drive (let's find programmer to fix it!).
In SCSI time at late 80s and early 90s there wasn't any regular sector size. You just format it what you wanted (some times it needed lowformat).
I think that is why Mac OS 9 support different sector sizes. So if somebody write formatting software that see big drive and let choose bigger sector size then Mac OS 9 support it already. It should not cause any additional read operations (of course it reads whole sector at once, but it can even speed up with bigger files). Although don't try first that 64KB sector size first because it can be physically too long "stripe" on HDD and to big it's buffer. But anyway 1024 bytes sector is enough for 4 TB and 2048 bytes sector for 8 TB.

I think that reason why people start think that 512 bytes sector size is regular is that BSD unix (including Mac OSX 10.0-10.3) and early Linux had "hard wired" 512 bytes sector size.
Akai even formatted floppy with 1024 bytes sector size in 80s and early 90s...but that wasn't reason why Mac couldn't read them, they wasn't in HFS format at all.

EDIT:just fix some typos.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 03:10:28 AM by teroyk »
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3871
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1337 on: May 06, 2022, 06:47:31 AM »
so you say you are sure that in theory it will work, but silverlining itself has also a limit? :P hopefully it was only because of your enclosure.

my HDDs just arrived. i am supposed to use what version of silverlining?

and i know you can ask for sector size in OSX console. can you maybe also format drives with custom settings in the shell?

insert arbitrary signature here

Offline Jubadub

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 214
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 6
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1338 on: May 07, 2022, 08:21:53 AM »
Great News!

As context I am running the Mac Mini G4 1.5 Ghz. For those that are using a DVI to HDMI adapter and are unable to achieve full resolution (1920x1080 @ 60Hz), I was able to get a working combination of display drivers that both allow me to get full resolution (on a BenQ PD2700U 4K monitor) and have working 2D/3D hardware acceleration.

With v9 of the OS 9 build for the Mac Mini G4, I was getting 2D/3D hardware acceleration but was unable to change resolutions above 1280x1024 without my display doing weird things. I am using a DVI to HDMI converter which may be part of the problem.

After experimenting with various driver combinations found in various posts, I was able to get a working combination (on v9) that both gives me full 1920x1080 @ 60Hz resolution as well as hardware acceleration for 2D/3D gaming.

I am using SwitchRes to manage the resolutions and color depth, and generally scale down the resolution for gaming.

The following (attached) driver combination seems to allow my Mac Mini G4 to run, fully hardware accelerated, at 1920x1080 @ 60Hz. The experimental RockHopper driver seems to make your machine think its' using a VGA monitor, which unlocks many more resolutions than what is available with the native DVI implementation.

I am running the v9 build of the Mac Mini G4 OS 9 from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2408.1050.html

The base set of extensions comes from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4277.msg29392.html#msg29392

and the modified RockHopper driver comes from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5009.0.html

To install, just replace your existing drivers in the Extensions folder (I recommend putting your existing drivers in the "Extensions (Disabled)" folder so you can revert if you need to.

Just wanted to say that, with the files attached to your post, I was able to use my Dell 1920x1200 16:10 LCD monitor with a 1.5GHz mini, but the highest pixel-native resolution I could select was 1600x1200 and config my monitor to work in 4:3 aspect ratio by blackening out the sides. OS 9 for some reason allows me to select 1920x1200 ONLY at 76Hz, but my monitor requires the frequency to be 60Hz, no more, no less. Using SwitchRes 2.x was no different, as it still did not offer me the option, nor allow me to add my own custom resolution (which I thought it could).

What I find interesting is that I also tested multiple 1.25GHz and 1.42GHz Mac minis, and other 1.5GHz minis, and this is ONLY an issue for the 1.5GHz ones. It is a very consistent problem. I suspect this problem would happen also with the 1.33GHz minis, which also contain different New World ROM more similar to the one in the 1.5GHz minis.

In fact, when using the 1.25GHz and 1.42GHz minis, I had 1920x1200 @60Hz out-of-the-box with the v8 disc (and I believe v9 would be fine also, without the modified ATI drivers from v8). As for the 1.5GHz minis, I had the monitor issue with both v8 and v9, and it was so bad that I could not boot with the v8/v9 discs, nor with the resulting install, with any picture whatsoever (black screen), until I got the files attached to your post, but even then the best I get is 1600x1200 @60Hz and set my monitor to work at 4:3 instead of 16:10. Which is honestly great, and is better for almost every fullscreen game, but still, the additional space from 16:10 is useful for things like coding etc..

In short, your post was extremely helpful for the super minis (whose firmware is not so super), even if I'm stuck at 1600x1200 @60Hz instead of 1920x1200 @60Hz. So thank you!

Offline jackoverfull

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1339 on: May 29, 2022, 08:24:16 AM »
Reporting success! Mac Mini G4 booting with full acceleration and pretty fast. :) Sound is low but bearable on external speakers, inaudible on internal (but no problem for me there).

Only issue I had is that both my optical drives are clearly on the way out: using the internal one it hung halfway trough booting, with an external unit it booted fine but always failed restoring the image. Since formatting the drive worked I booted the mini in FireWire target disk mode, copied the files over from Mohave and, since correctly blessing a Mac OS classic System Folder is no longer possible on recent Mac OS, booted back in the install CD to bless from OS 9. Works like a charm!

Now Iíll have to figure how to install Tiger on the other partition without a DVD driveÖ

Offline Bolkonskij

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 183
  • Embrace true personal computing!
    • Cornica.org
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 68
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1340 on: July 30, 2022, 06:47:09 AM »
Anyone else getting distorted / crackling sound? I had this with mp3 playback. I thought it was my old speakers but I tried a second pair and the problem persisted. When disabling any bass, it was gone. Booted into OSX to check, and there was no problem at all. I figure it's a OS9 / Mac Mini thing. Problem also exists when trying to playback alert sounds.

Any known solution to this?
Cornica
Video Entertainment for Mac OS users!

System 7 Today
All you ever wanted to know about System 7

Bolkonskijs Cheat Emporium
Building the ultimate cheats & tips site for Mac OS

Mac Mini G4, 1.42 Ghz, 1 GB RAM
Power Mac 8600 / 200, 192 MB RAM, TwinTurbo 128MA
Mac IIci, 68030 @ 40 Mhz, 32 MB RAM, SCSI2SD 5.1, RaSCSI

Offline jackoverfull

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1341 on: July 30, 2022, 07:11:05 AM »
Been using my system quite frequently in the last couple of months, it runs REALLY well. Just a couple of minor issues to report.

1) On the rightmost edge of my HP w17e there are a few permanently white pixels. This does not happen when booting in Mac OS X

2) On occasion the mouse gets stuck while booting, it happens while loading the extensions and I canít still click but no longer move it. Rebooting solves the issue. Itís a Logitech mouse and I use USB Overdrive.

Apart from these very minor hiccups and the known audio issues (no cracking for me but I havenít tried playing mp3) the system runs really smoothly and Iím very happy.

Offline zefrenchtoon

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1342 on: July 30, 2022, 07:21:36 AM »
Anyone else getting distorted / crackling sound? I had this with mp3 playback. I thought it was my old speakers but I tried a second pair and the problem persisted. When disabling any bass, it was gone. Booted into OSX to check, and there was no problem at all. I figure it's a OS9 / Mac Mini thing. Problem also exists when trying to playback alert sounds.

Any known solution to this?

Is it a 1.5GHz silent upgrade model ?

Offline Bolkonskij

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 183
  • Embrace true personal computing!
    • Cornica.org
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 68
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1343 on: July 30, 2022, 09:30:07 AM »
It's a quiet and amazing 1.25 Ghz one, first gen. I had no sound issues with this one before but somehow it decided to change that ... :-)
Cornica
Video Entertainment for Mac OS users!

System 7 Today
All you ever wanted to know about System 7

Bolkonskijs Cheat Emporium
Building the ultimate cheats & tips site for Mac OS

Mac Mini G4, 1.42 Ghz, 1 GB RAM
Power Mac 8600 / 200, 192 MB RAM, TwinTurbo 128MA
Mac IIci, 68030 @ 40 Mhz, 32 MB RAM, SCSI2SD 5.1, RaSCSI

Offline DieHard

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2069
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 30
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1344 on: July 30, 2022, 10:15:31 AM »
Ok, let's do the math...

This topic has been read over 350,000 times...

10% of the readers had a Mac mini G4...

Therefore, we have saved 35,000 Mac mini G4s from being e-wasted (or target practice) !

Disclaimer: DieHard has no real facts and occasionally drinks way too much coffee while making up meaningless BS for troll food

Offline jackoverfull

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1345 on: July 30, 2022, 12:40:48 PM »
Well, mine has been demothballed after eight yearsÖ

Offline zefrenchtoon

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1346 on: August 10, 2022, 06:12:44 AM »
A thought about audio issue on mini G4 under OS9 with RossV9 ...

The Mac OS ROM was modified to make the mini identified as a Cube.
The Cube does not have any audio in/out on its motherboard and they are deported on the Apple Pro Speakers amplifier.

Maybe MacOS 9 does not even try to enable audio in/out because it "seems to be" a Cube ...?   ::)

Would it be possible to make a ROM identifying the mini as a Sawtooth or QS (or another model a bit closer to the mini on this point of view) to check this behaviour ?

Thanks for reading   -afro-

Offline zefrenchtoon

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1347 on: August 10, 2022, 06:15:21 AM »
I am replying to myself as I just see that the idea was already mentioned two years ago ^^'

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2408.msg43268/topicseen.html#msg43268

Offline jackoverfull

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1348 on: August 10, 2022, 07:38:54 AM »
But the audio *does* work: all you need to do is connect an external speaker and turn the volume way high, as the output is stuck to very low and canít be changed due to the lack of a hardware mixer. If I understood correctly even the internal speaker works, itís just so low it canít be heard.

Offline jackoverfull

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1349 on: September 15, 2022, 01:39:51 AM »
Another small update on the audioÖ
I just bought, for totally unrelated reasons, the Behringer UCA222 U audio interface. Itís a small USB 1 audio interface with RCA inputs and outputs and one mini jack out for monitoring.

https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0A31

Anyway, I read the manual and was very surprised it officially supported Mac OS 9.1, I tried on my mini and the audio comes out loud and clear, even if it doesnít show up at all in the sound control panel. you still canít set the output level from the OS, but since the mini jack output has a volume dial it could be a good solution for many, as itís really inexpensive.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal