Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)

[IIO]

wer von euch macht eigentlich sowas:

[IIO]

Brirec’s answer reminds me a post I have read some month ago

this custom usb knob is hilarious yet at the same time quite useful.

i am about to build a hardware solution atm, where a macmini, custom software and custom midi controllers are part of the setup - since there are no hardware equivalents for parts of it - a 16*16 matrix mixer.

the question how to turn on a mini which has been put into a 19" case (without bying something from sonnet and without using the original knob) is one of the open questions - and using an USB cable (literally no costs) would be really cool, because the  you dont have to leave the rackmount encosure open to reach it.

and i just love how he started up with debating weird meta questions about apple keyboards - and in the end he invented an interesting solution for all kind of purposes.

http://laut8leise.de/files/simples%20delay.png
http://laut8leise.de/files/88iger-standalone.png
http://laut8leise.de/files/mischerr.jpg

[[email protected]]

I thought I'd briefly tell my experience. I bought a G4 Mac Mini from Headgap, an online store that sells reconditioned Macs. I've had Macs since 1984 and certainly had OS9 macs in the past but I was looking for the newest one I could find to make it easier to maintain since I'm not an EE. They warned me that making it boot 9.2 would make the audio problematic. For me, it had no audio when I booted it up (as expected). Also though the headphone jack didn't give me sound. I tried some old Harmon Kardon soundsticks for an old iMac I used to have and that seemed to be recognized, at first. When I moved the machine though, it no longer seemed to recognize them in the control panel. However, the audio did play through them at about a volume of 30%.

I can't change the volume though, and the soundsticks don't have a volume control. It's annoying, but it's more or less what I expected. I mostly got it to run Realmz and perhaps other old Mac software I had (Myst, the Voyager Record, Last Chance to See, etc.). I don't know if anything but Realmz runs yet.

I'll also say that initially, I tried to connect it to a 720P Insignia TV that had a variety of inputs including VGA. That had worked with a HP Mini 2140 netbook I put Linux on but the resolution was quite coarse (looked good though). On the Mini though it gave me the initial splash screen and than it only would say VGA mode not supported. I was using a VGA/DVI adapter to make that connection. So I bought an Apple 20" Cinema Display on eBay which came with the adapter and cables (not all do surprisingly). It has a native DVI connection and was made about the time of the mini so I was hopeful it would work, and it did. The only downside is that the resolution is quite high, 1680 on the high side, which makes OS9 have moderately tiny UI components (but Ok, at least they're razor sharp). Plus the monitor functions as a USB and Firewire hub which is useful. I have to lower the resolution in order to play Realmz or else it's a tiny rectangle on the monitor! ;-)

Anyway, sure I'd like to get the sound to work better, but judging from what I'm hearing here, I'm pretty lucky overall. Maybe some of this will help some of you and maybe we can even get that audio working eventually.

[Angelgreat]

Hey, for the iso image of OS9 for Mac Mini, can I burn it into a bootable USB stick and create a bootable USB installer or do I need to burn it to a CD/DVD?

[Cashed]

[thinkpadder]

Several weeks ago I've installed Mac mini OS 9 onto my Mac mini G4 1.25 and it works perfectly.

Now I've just cloned that OS 9 installation into a new HDD (80GB 4200rpm Seagate Momentus) using the Disk Utility on OS X 10.5.8 and plugged that HDD onto that same Mac mini G4. When I try to boot it, it displays a Floppy Icon with a question mark on it and it doesn't boot.

How to make the cloned Mac mini OS 9 installation boot?

[DrNo7]

Several weeks ago I've installed Mac mini OS 9 onto my Mac mini G4 1.25 and it works perfectly.

Now I've just cloned that OS 9 installation into a new HDD (80GB 4200rpm Seagate Momentus) using the Disk Utility on OS X 10.5.8 and plugged that HDD onto that same Mac mini G4. When I try to boot it, it displays a Floppy Icon with a question mark on it and it doesn't boot.

How to make the cloned Mac mini OS 9 installation boot?

I will have to check again but Disk Utility on Leopard surpports partition's data copy at best (possibly using the dd utility). So the partition table or even OS9 drivers magic could be missing.
So either you can reformat you new disk (making sure it has an Apple partition table and each partition is HFS+ non-journaled with the OS9 drivers checkbox active) and copy again the data. Or you should give a try to the Terminal and use DD on the whole disk (should work as long as both disks are the same size).

[thinkpadder]

I will have to check again but Disk Utility on Leopard surpports partition's data copy at best (possibly using the dd utility). So the partition table or even OS9 drivers magic could be missing.
So either you can reformat you new disk (making sure it has an Apple partition table and each partition is HFS+ non-journaled with the OS9 drivers checkbox active) and copy again the data. Or you should give a try to the Terminal and use DD on the whole disk (should work as long as both disks are the same size).

Thank you for the comment.
I've reformatted a new disk, a 60GB Hitachi HDD and partitioned it with APT and HFS+ non-journaled w. the OS9 drivers checkbox selected on DU on Leopard and cloned this time using CarbonCopyCloner. No luck. I've avoided the use of Terminal and the 'dd' tool. Actually I use command tools quite often but in this particular case it seemed beyond me.

Then I did a Google search again and found this link:
Blessing Cloned OS 9 System Folder

It was suggesting:

Just delete the System Folder (on the drive that does not boot). Then copy (using Mac OS 9 Finder) the System Folder from the drive you are trying to reproduce. Try to start up from the newly copied System Folder.
I've tried it right now, and it worked, the cloned OS9 has booted fine but with some small gotcha: The mouse isn't operational. That had happened on the working OS9 too and was gone after a restart.

[zefrenchtoon]

...
It was suggesting:

Just delete the System Folder (on the drive that does not boot). Then copy (using Mac OS 9 Finder) the System Folder from the drive you are trying to reproduce. Try to start up from the newly copied System Folder.
I've tried it right now, and it worked, the cloned OS9 has booted fine but with some small gotcha: The mouse isn't operational. That had happened on the working OS9 too and was gone after a restart.

There are different faster/easier ways to do the same (without deleting/copying):
 - under OS9 or OSX, take the "System" suitcase off the system folder and then put it back and it should bless the system folder
 - under OSX, using Terminal, there is a CLI tool named "bless" that can bless an entire disk / a partition / a system folder. Its usage is described here and it can bless OS9 or OSX by setting the NVRAM parameter to what you want exactly:  https://ss64.com/osx/bless.html

the second way is very useful because it registers it in NVRAM so you can force your mac mini to boot from os9 each time even if you boot once from OSX. Because the MacMini was not made initially to boot from OS9, if you reboot under OSX then OpenFirmware will remember it next time you (re)boot.

[domii]

Just got around to do this - I had overclocked a late model Mac Mini G4 (1.5Ghz) to 1.8Ghz.
Put in a mSata 248GB drive using the white mSATA-Pata adapter.

Booted off a 10.4 Tiger Server DVD I had, and partitioned the drive via Terminal. Created 3 volumes so I could have several OS's installed.

diskutil partitionDisk /dev/disk0 3 OS9Drivers HFS+ MacintoshHD 79.4G JHFS+ Leopard 79.4G JHFS+ Sorbet 79.4G

Had some issues with my monitor using DVI-HDMI cable so I switched to using the DVI-VGA adapter and all was well as per all the recommendations.

It is just a rocket in OS 9 - Wow. Actually performs well in all OS's. Puts my G3 upgraded PowerCenter clone to shame and rivals the MDD.

Great work getting this working, and putting it togther in such an easy installer & bootable CD.

Attaching some benchmarks & pics.

[pfuentes69]

Hello.
Just came here to say "Thank you!"
I have now my Mini 1.5GHz working nicely with Mac OS 9. The sound issue was solved with a super-cheap USB adapter.
 

[MatthewH12]

I wanted to add my comments in case they help anyone. I just purchased a MacMini G4, 1.42Ghz off eBay, to give this a shot!

1. Initially the system would crash at a bomb right after the boot logo, and before any icons loaded at the bottom, reburning the disc at 1x instead of 16x, fixed this issue.

2. Secondly, I was having the mouse issues listed above, the mouse would work right up until the first icon loaded at the bottom (a USB icon, USB Overdrive maybe?), rebooting with extensions off, the mouse worked fine and I was able to launch the install without further issues.

It's currently restoring, and I'll add further updates to this post as needed.

Edit 1: Mouse works just fine on first boot. It's a TEKNET Wired Mouse, SKU UM013 I got fairly cheap on Amazon.

Edit 2: Audio not working, even with the listed Sabrent adapter. AU-MMSA.

Edit 3: USB Overdrive WAS my mouse issue. Multiple mice wouldn't work with it but I found ONE that did, all it says is TELINK Made in china. Suggest removing USBOverdrive from boot disc?

Edit 4: After fussing with USBOD, I was able to get more mice to work with it but it's not perfect. I just wanted working scroll wheel!

[pfuentes69]

Hello
about the audio issues, I posted this in another thread, but just in case...

I'm using this cheap USB adapter: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001111644497.html

It works quite well. The volume can't be adjusted from the control panel, but it does work and the volume can be controlled from inside the applications or games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kb5qpE-E6w

[IIO]

it currently costs 0,01 euro?

[MatthewH12]

Edit 5: Logitech M90 works both during boot & after install (no issues w/ USBOverdrive. The TekNet would work when booted after fussing with USBOverDrive but not during install.

Edit 6: Got a M-Audio Transit, after fussing trying to find the right driver, it works fine as long as it's plugged directly into the Mini, will NOT work through a hub (I tested w/ powered USB2 Hub).

I wanted to add my comments in case they help anyone. I just purchased a MacMini G4, 1.42Ghz off eBay, to give this a shot!

1. Initially the system would crash at a bomb right after the boot logo, and before any icons loaded at the bottom, reburning the disc at 1x instead of 16x, fixed this issue.

2. Secondly, I was having the mouse issues listed above, the mouse would work right up until the first icon loaded at the bottom (a USB icon, USB Overdrive maybe?), rebooting with extensions off, the mouse worked fine and I was able to launch the install without further issues.

It's currently restoring, and I'll add further updates to this post as needed.

Edit 1: Mouse works just fine on first boot. It's a TEKNET Wired Mouse, SKU UM013 I got fairly cheap on Amazon.

Edit 2: Audio not working, even with the listed Sabrent adapter. AU-MMSA.

Edit 3: USB Overdrive WAS my mouse issue. Multiple mice wouldn't work with it but I found ONE that did, all it says is TELINK Made in china. Suggest removing USBOverdrive from boot disc?

Edit 4: After fussing with USBOD, I was able to get more mice to work with it but it's not perfect. I just wanted working scroll wheel!

[IIO]

You can make 64kB sector size with Silverlining Pro. So APM support at least 256 TB in one drive with Mac OS 9.

hey teyrok,

did you ever actually do this - and can you enlighten me about a a possible issues with irregular sectorsizes causing additionel read operations with every write operation?

[teroyk]

You can make 64kB sector size with Silverlining Pro. So APM support at least 256 TB in one drive with Mac OS 9.

did you ever actually do this - and can you enlighten me about a a possible issues with irregular sectorsizes causing additionel read operations with every write operation?

Actually I tried to test later with 4 TB Firewire-drive, but there was problem that Silverling Pro didn't see that big drive (let's find programmer to fix it!).
In SCSI time at late 80s and early 90s there wasn't any regular sector size. You just format it what you wanted (some times it needed lowformat).
I think that is why Mac OS 9 support different sector sizes. So if somebody write formatting software that see big drive and let choose bigger sector size then Mac OS 9 support it already. It should not cause any additional read operations (of course it reads whole sector at once, but it can even speed up with bigger files). Although don't try first that 64KB sector size first because it can be physically too long "stripe" on HDD and to big it's buffer. But anyway 1024 bytes sector is enough for 4 TB and 2048 bytes sector for 8 TB.

I think that reason why people start think that 512 bytes sector size is regular is that BSD unix (including Mac OSX 10.0-10.3) and early Linux had "hard wired" 512 bytes sector size.
Akai even formatted floppy with 1024 bytes sector size in 80s and early 90s...but that wasn't reason why Mac couldn't read them, they wasn't in HFS format at all.

EDIT:just fix some typos.

[IIO]

so you say you are sure that in theory it will work, but silverlining itself has also a limit? hopefully it was only because of your enclosure.

my HDDs just arrived. i am supposed to use what version of silverlining?

and i know you can ask for sector size in OSX console. can you maybe also format drives with custom settings in the shell?

[Jubadub]

Great News!

As context I am running the Mac Mini G4 1.5 Ghz. For those that are using a DVI to HDMI adapter and are unable to achieve full resolution (1920x1080 @ 60Hz), I was able to get a working combination of display drivers that both allow me to get full resolution (on a BenQ PD2700U 4K monitor) and have working 2D/3D hardware acceleration.

With v9 of the OS 9 build for the Mac Mini G4, I was getting 2D/3D hardware acceleration but was unable to change resolutions above 1280x1024 without my display doing weird things. I am using a DVI to HDMI converter which may be part of the problem.

After experimenting with various driver combinations found in various posts, I was able to get a working combination (on v9) that both gives me full 1920x1080 @ 60Hz resolution as well as hardware acceleration for 2D/3D gaming.

I am using SwitchRes to manage the resolutions and color depth, and generally scale down the resolution for gaming.

The following (attached) driver combination seems to allow my Mac Mini G4 to run, fully hardware accelerated, at 1920x1080 @ 60Hz. The experimental RockHopper driver seems to make your machine think its' using a VGA monitor, which unlocks many more resolutions than what is available with the native DVI implementation.

I am running the v9 build of the Mac Mini G4 OS 9 from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2408.1050.html

The base set of extensions comes from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4277.msg29392.html#msg29392

and the modified RockHopper driver comes from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5009.0.html

To install, just replace your existing drivers in the Extensions folder (I recommend putting your existing drivers in the "Extensions (Disabled)" folder so you can revert if you need to.

Just wanted to say that, with the files attached to your post, I was able to use my Dell 1920x1200 16:10 LCD monitor with a 1.5GHz mini, but the highest pixel-native resolution I could select was 1600x1200 and config my monitor to work in 4:3 aspect ratio by blackening out the sides. OS 9 for some reason allows me to select 1920x1200 ONLY at 76Hz, but my monitor requires the frequency to be 60Hz, no more, no less. Using SwitchRes 2.x was no different, as it still did not offer me the option, nor allow me to add my own custom resolution (which I thought it could).

What I find interesting is that I also tested multiple 1.25GHz and 1.42GHz Mac minis, and other 1.5GHz minis, and this is ONLY an issue for the 1.5GHz ones. It is a very consistent problem. I suspect this problem would happen also with the 1.33GHz minis, which also contain different New World ROM more similar to the one in the 1.5GHz minis.

In fact, when using the 1.25GHz and 1.42GHz minis, I had 1920x1200 @60Hz out-of-the-box with the v8 disc (and I believe v9 would be fine also, without the modified ATI drivers from v8). As for the 1.5GHz minis, I had the monitor issue with both v8 and v9, and it was so bad that I could not boot with the v8/v9 discs, nor with the resulting install, with any picture whatsoever (black screen), until I got the files attached to your post, but even then the best I get is 1600x1200 @60Hz and set my monitor to work at 4:3 instead of 16:10. Which is honestly great, and is better for almost every fullscreen game, but still, the additional space from 16:10 is useful for things like coding etc..

In short, your post was extremely helpful for the super minis (whose firmware is not so super), even if I'm stuck at 1600x1200 @60Hz instead of 1920x1200 @60Hz. So thank you!

[jackoverfull]

Reporting success! Mac Mini G4 booting with full acceleration and pretty fast. Sound is low but bearable on external speakers, inaudible on internal (but no problem for me there).

Only issue I had is that both my optical drives are clearly on the way out: using the internal one it hung halfway trough booting, with an external unit it booted fine but always failed restoring the image. Since formatting the drive worked I booted the mini in FireWire target disk mode, copied the files over from Mohave and, since correctly blessing a Mac OS classic System Folder is no longer possible on recent Mac OS, booted back in the install CD to bless from OS 9. Works like a charm!

Now I’ll have to figure how to install Tiger on the other partition without a DVD drive…