Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 297911 times)

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1275 on: April 04, 2021, 02:44:03 PM »
Has anyone diagnosed the cause of the flashing ?-mark (and boot failure)?

diagnosis always has to be done for the concrete in-patient, not in general.

the flashing mark simply means "i cant find a valid boot partition" and that can be caused by a bunch of things, starting from a wrong ROM version, a corrupt PRAM, issues with the IDE, SATA oder firewire bus, or issues with the physical drive.
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Offline quantum8

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1276 on: April 05, 2021, 11:03:19 PM »
Finally got around to installing this on my 1.5GHz mini and seems to work great apart from sound.

Sound doesn't seem to work for me at all. I can select built-in from the control panel, but cannot adjust the main volume at all. If I move the slider to the right, the menu bar flashes and the volume returns to zero.

I've also tried plugging in a USB sound adapter which works with no drivers on my Cube, but I get the same thing as built-in option: I can select "USB Audio" but cannot adjust the volume at all. Is this a limitation to this install?

Update: well audio works in games such as Quake so I guess it's a limitation in finder?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 12:09:42 AM by quantum8 »

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1277 on: April 09, 2021, 08:44:10 PM »
the way how the system audio´s volume is controlled doesnt work with that hardware.
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Offline bamdad

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1278 on: April 10, 2021, 05:17:08 AM »
Finally got around to installing this on my 1.5GHz mini and seems to work great apart from sound.

Sound doesn't seem to work for me at all. I can select built-in from the control panel, but cannot adjust the main volume at all. If I move the slider to the right, the menu bar flashes and the volume returns to zero.

I've also tried plugging in a USB sound adapter which works with no drivers on my Cube, but I get the same thing as built-in option: I can select "USB Audio" but cannot adjust the volume at all. Is this a limitation to this install?

Update: well audio works in games such as Quake so I guess it's a limitation in finder?

i know your pain. actually only the alert sounds don't work, but almost everything in the finder is considered that.

my solution was to get an 'm-audio transit USB' from ebay. drivers are available from this site. with that everythign works (just make sure to leave the 'optical' dummy plug in place). however, it's bulky, ugly, and needs its own USB power which is quite hard to achieve with only 2 USB ports on the mini.

i'm still hoping that someone will find a way to use the internal speaker for all sounds, but that is highly unlikely. as the previous poster said, there is no hardware mixer to control, and implementing a software one would need insane development efforts into reverse-engineering the complete sound hardware and writing an OS 9-specific system extension for it. : (

Offline ToddH

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1279 on: April 11, 2021, 06:54:57 AM »
I upgraded the monitor on my desk to a nice 32" LG 4K and now my G4 Mini will no longer even give me the option for 720P or 1080P any longer. Highest res I can choose is 1024x768. Trying to find a solution but no luck so far.

Have you tried using SwitchRes 2? It's supposed to let you set any resolution the GPU supports, regardless of the monitor, or specify custom resolutions/timings:

https://www.madrau.com/SRXv3/html/SR2/About.html

If you click on the "Register" page, the author gives a free registration key for the OS 9 version.

I did but no joy. Still only get 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, and 1280x1024 as options even under Switchres 2. I'm just using 1280x1024 since it seems to scale pretty nicely to 4K. Do miss the widescreen modes though.

Edit: And now 1080P is showing and working. Very weird.

Edit 2: After running in 1080P for a couple of minutes the screen starts showing more and more sparkles. Dropping back down to 1280x1024 makes them go away. Starting to wonder if the video card in this mini has issues.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 04:23:18 PM by ToddH »

Offline arnyekveto

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1280 on: April 17, 2021, 02:42:56 AM »
Hi,

sorry for TR;DL -> mac mini G4 works OOB with digital DVI cable using full native resolution with v9 installer.

after my older post here where I did experimentation with the silent upgrade G4 Mini with OS9 v8, v9 installer, I stuck totally in regards of VGA/Display with my WSXGA+ 1680x1050 Samsung monitor. I cannot acquire the native resolution, for the WSXGA+ image ratio resolutions every second vertical pixel line disappears, so at full resolution which is 1680x1050 the machine sends 840x1080 dvi signal, then for example 1027x768 works correctly, but any other smaller resolution that has the same ratio as WSXGA+ having every second vertical line disappearing.

I grabbed my older 1.25 GHz Mini again, installed 128 GB mSata->IDE drive in it. I grabbed my DVI cable this time, no dvi-to-vga converter this time, using my Samsung WSXGA+ monitor 1680x1050px.

Why? Because when I boot from v9 CD, the monitor have native resolution via the digital cable!!! Period.

So I first booted from v9 CD, initialized HDD then did the software resotre install... the usual way, as the manual says. Side note, when booting from CD I have native resolution with digital cable, I have the  red ATI icon near the clock, with its small acceleration menu, and the display is truly 2d accelerated.

After booting the fresh install from internal drive, the installed OS9 does not have the  red ATI accelerator icon, also visible no 2d acceleration present when dragging windows. As expected I don't have native resolution, I have non WSXGA+ image ratio resolutions, I see 1900x1200, 1280x800 etc resolutions that are cropped or not working at all.

So, based on release notes, a newer ATi display driver extension was applied in the v9 installer as well inside the macintosh.hdd image in the Configuration folder. This newer driver having a regression.

What I did I booted again from v9 CD installer disc, initialized again the internal drive, then I drag-and-dropped everything from the v9 CD onto the empty internal-drive, then rebooted.

My internal drive boots the very same os9 that the v9 installer CD have, so I have perferct native resolution via digital cable, red ATi accelerator icon present and 2d acceleration works. :-)

Well after tinkering with this exremely stripped down OS9 that comes directly from v9 CD, to make everything fully working I had to mount the macintosh.hdd from the v9 installer and drag-and-drop the carbonlib and the stuffit extension into my systme folder.

After this, I installed my usual combo, Illustrator9, Photoshop6 and 4, Painter7ProCreate, KPT3/5, Eyecandy, there is no issue so far after 2 weeks of daily usage rendering fractals with kpt5 on 12000x8000 px RGB, doing vector graphics, etc... in regards of extensions no other extension was missing besides stuffit and carbonlib to make this mini again full OS9 graphical workstation with proper full resolution via digital cable! Period.
Due to mstata ssd and having the minimal extensions and machine having Ultra-ATA100 speed, boot to full desktop is 20-25 seconds. Clicking on PS4 it starts up in 4-5 seconds in total.

One, small glitch: sometimes image is not present unless OS9 fully boots into desktop (monitor seeking digital signal), sometimes display is OK from the beginning of the boot (small mac icon smiling in gray background) and I can see OS9 progress bar and loading extensions. I re-booted so far 100 times, the conclusion is: 50% of the cases display is blank until OS booted into desktop fully, 25% cases I can see small mac smiling from the very early stage, the rest of the cases my monitor starts displaying image when extensions are almost loaded. What I can 100% sure say, when I switch on the OS9 mini the worst case 2 minutes later I will have my fully native resolution via digital cable. All the time!

Side note: I can add back slowly extensions and supplementary folders from macintosh.hdd image from v9 CD until I have again the stripe on the desktop, more preference panes, etc... what is show stopper overwriting the ati* extensions from the hdd image, or upgrading with the ati display drivers upgrade packs...

I do not use sound apps, though one who gonna go for a audio workstation, will use anyway firewire or usb external sound card with own drivers.

The monitor preferences app is totally not the same, it seems a very ancient prefpane with white background... tho It works out of the box, I have the full native resolution and a few smaller ones, all working.

Cheers!






Offline quantum8

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1281 on: May 04, 2021, 03:52:10 PM »
Just wondering if there's a way to dual boot this between OS9 and OSX on separate disks?

I'm running my setup a little differently to most; using an IDE to SD adapter with an extension ribbon so I can change the SD disk easily.

Would I be able to just take the OS9 SD out, put a new one in and install OSX, or will I come up against OF issues?

Offline quantum8

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1282 on: May 04, 2021, 03:53:16 PM »
the way how the system audio´s volume is controlled doesnt work with that hardware.

OK thanks, thought that might be the case.

Offline helixnrg

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1283 on: June 03, 2021, 04:49:50 AM »
Hi all!

I took a couple of years back that Mac OS 9 on a Mac Mini was now achievable. After some successful SSD replacements for some iMac G3s, I'm keen to give the Mac Mini 1.2Ghz model I have a whirl, especially with Mac OS 9, but the download link on:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4365.0.html

doesn't seem to work anymore. Can anyone point me to the .ISO or the .sit that contains all the updated System files that'll make an existing Mac OS 9 install work with the Mac Mini?

Thanks in advance!

Alex

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1284 on: June 03, 2021, 04:53:54 AM »
Hi all!

I took a couple of years back that Mac OS 9 on a Mac Mini was now achievable. After some successful SSD replacements for some iMac G3s, I'm keen to give the Mac Mini 1.2Ghz model I have a whirl, especially with Mac OS 9, but the download link on:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4365.0.html

doesn't seem to work anymore. Can anyone point me to the .ISO or the .sit that contains all the updated System files that'll make an existing Mac OS 9 install work with the Mac Mini?

Thanks in advance!

Alex

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2408.msg43581.html#msg43581
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Offline helixnrg

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1285 on: June 03, 2021, 05:03:27 AM »
Hmmmm...it's not working for me from Melbourne, Australia. I've tried latest versions of Safari, Chrome and Firefox, but all I see is:

Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1286 on: June 03, 2021, 05:29:23 AM »
Hmmmm...it's not working for me from Melbourne, Australia. I've tried latest versions of Safari, Chrome and Firefox, but all I see is:

Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Try the google drive links from Reply #1267, should jump to it from the link.
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Offline helixnrg

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1287 on: June 03, 2021, 08:43:09 PM »
Awesome, thank you so much! Installing OS 9 on my Mac Mini now!

Could we update the original post with these Google Drive links instead?

Alex

Offline xc68000

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1288 on: August 17, 2021, 09:25:48 AM »
Hello - Need some help here.  I have 2 G4 mini's and i've tried to install the v9 9.2.2 image but have run into a problem i can't get past.

I have both a 1.25ghz mini and a 1.5 super mini and both have the same issue.

Booting the 9.2.2 v9 DVD works but as soon as the drive utility starts, i loose mouse function.  I can click the mouse but cannot move it.

I *think* this issue is because neither of my mac mini's have drives that have the os9 drivers on them.

I have a 10.4.6 DVD but it does not give me the option of installing OS9 drivers on the disk.  I can't use the OS9 v9 disk utility because the mouse will not move.

So I'm sorta stuck.  Any thoughts?

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1289 on: August 17, 2021, 09:35:14 AM »
Quote
Booting the 9.2.2 v9 DVD works but as soon as the drive utility starts, i loose mouse function.  I can click the mouse but cannot move it.

There are documented mouse issues (exactly how you describe), but usually they are not as often as you are describing.... a few possible fixes...

1) if you have a genuine white apple mouse, use that
2) if you have a genuine apple keyboard (that you can plug the mouse into) try that
3) if you mouse is already in the keyboard, try plugging it into the mini directly
4) while the mouse is "paralyzed" unplug it while leaving the mini on, put it into the other USB and/or re-plug it in

I had the exact issues and while it was frozen I switched it to an apple mouse and it un-froze

Offline xc68000

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1290 on: August 17, 2021, 09:44:36 AM »
I will try that.  I am using a MacAlley usb keyboard and mouse that i purchased recently and the mouse is a two button scroll wheel mouse.  I have a genuine apple keyboard on the way and i will try and source an original apple mouse to go with it.

Offline Greystash

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1291 on: August 17, 2021, 02:34:28 PM »
I will try that.  I am using a MacAlley usb keyboard and mouse that i purchased recently and the mouse is a two button scroll wheel mouse.  I have a genuine apple keyboard on the way and i will try and source an original apple mouse to go with it.

I've had this issue a lot but I now use my imac G3 Keyboard which has a power button. It means I can fully boot the system with a frozen mouse but I can press the power button to safely shut off/restart the machine only using the keyboard. That way I don't need to forcefully turn it off and it won't corrupt anything. After the one restart it usually un-freezes for me.

Offline xc68000

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1292 on: August 22, 2021, 10:03:33 AM »
Does the v9 disk have USBOverdrive as a default extension?

I ask because I found another os9 dvd that someone put together that worked perfectly, however after the install i added USBOverdrive and the exact issue with the cursor disappearing and button still working manifested.

Oddly, even disabling the 2 extensions and control panel for USBOverdrive did not fix it and I ended up reinstalling.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1293 on: August 22, 2021, 12:23:48 PM »
yes, they included it with the mini CD.

but one have to say that a 3 button mouse normally works without third party software. the wheel does what it should, and left is alt by default. only if you want to change that or if you have issues with the speed using the original driver (or when there is no driver for OS9) you needed usboverdrive.

i cant really comment on the "mac mini mouse bug", but i *think* it is mostly releated to the type of mouse, and usboverdrive wont fix much.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1294 on: August 22, 2021, 12:25:03 PM »
...
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Offline xc68000

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1295 on: August 22, 2021, 12:43:45 PM »
So the boot part of the v9 image has a USB Device Extension dated 2012 and 399KB.  It also has the USB Overdrive Control Panel.

I made a new image and replaced the USB Device Extension with one dated 2002 396k (Version 1.5.9) and the mouse works fine when booting up the CD image.

The restore image part of the install has the 2002 396KB v1.5.9 and no USB Overdrive control panel.

I'm quite certain that the wider "mouse sometimes freezes at boot" issue is different than the issue I resolved as my mouse hang issue was reproduceable 100% of the time booting the v9 install image.




Offline teroyk

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1296 on: August 24, 2021, 12:03:53 PM »
...
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1297 on: August 24, 2021, 12:06:57 PM »
I made a new image and replaced the USB Device Extension with one dated 2002 396k (Version 1.5.9) and the mouse works fine when booting up the CD image.
The restore image part of the install has the 2002 396KB v1.5.9 and no USB Overdrive control panel.

I have never understand why use USB Overdrive for mouse. Logitech mouse driver is better, scroll wheel works with that.
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline zefrenchtoon

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1298 on: August 26, 2021, 07:44:24 AM »
Hi guys (and girls) !
What if I tell you that Bluetooth is working on OS9 on my mini ?
Ok ok ok, only with keyboards and mouse.  ::)

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1299 on: August 27, 2021, 11:40:31 AM »
I have never understand why use USB Overdrive for mouse. Logitech mouse driver is better, scroll wheel works with that.

you can switch right-click and mid-click with it.
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Offline xc68000

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1300 on: August 28, 2021, 11:35:09 AM »
I don't appear to be able to create a RAM disk with my 9.2.2 v9 install.  The control panel works but the disk is never created.  I'm trying to create a small one so I can enable VM (mini g4 has 1gb).

EDIT 8/29:  Confirming that I cannot create a RAM Disk on my 1.5ghz super mini, but using the same drive I can on my 1.25hz mini.  Perhaps there is something different between the two machines that prevents this.

Can someone with a 1.5 silent upgrade mini try creating a RAM disk in v9?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 09:49:56 AM by xc68000 »

Offline kokakoda

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1301 on: August 31, 2021, 07:53:02 PM »
Quote
Booting the 9.2.2 v9 DVD works but as soon as the drive utility starts, i loose mouse function.  I can click the mouse but cannot move it.

There are documented mouse issues (exactly how you describe), but usually they are not as often as you are describing.... a few possible fixes...

1) if you have a genuine white apple mouse, use that
2) if you have a genuine apple keyboard (that you can plug the mouse into) try that
3) if you mouse is already in the keyboard, try plugging it into the mini directly
4) while the mouse is "paralyzed" unplug it while leaving the mini on, put it into the other USB and/or re-plug it in

I had the exact issues and while it was frozen I switched it to an apple mouse and it un-froze

Just to add to this, I only have generic PC keyboards and mice and had the same issue. What I ended up doing was booting the disc while holding 'shift' to load without extensions. Was surprised that worked - can't boot disc with C or access Startup Manager with Alt and was close to giving up.

Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1302 on: September 02, 2021, 10:18:12 PM »
jumping in to make sure that some things aren’t forgotten.

The issue that sometimes prevents the cursor from moving but allows it to click the Apple menu: in my experience, this only happens when a widely circulated archive of “patched” ATI drivers is installed. Long post a couple of years ago. Use the vanilla drivers.

A blinking question mark usually means that the boot disk hasn’t been formatted with the “Mac OS 9 Drivers”. I wrote a patch to fix it, but honestly the easiest fix is just to wipe your disk with Drive Setup. Another cause is a hardware fault, namely a hard drive that returns a lot of read errors.

Offline zefrenchtoon

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1303 on: September 04, 2021, 05:40:57 AM »
In case of you did not see it, here is a thead about getting sound working on mini using cheap USB audio adapters:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5952.0.html

Offline vacheuk

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1304 on: September 06, 2021, 06:23:58 AM »
Just wondering if there's a way to dual boot this between OS9 and OSX on separate disks?

I'm running my setup a little differently to most; using an IDE to SD adapter with an extension ribbon so I can change the SD disk easily.

Would I be able to just take the OS9 SD out, put a new one in and install OSX, or will I come up against OF issues?

Just in case you still wanted to know, yes I think this should work.

I have a IDE->CF adapter with a 32Gb card in mine.  I partitioned in two equal parts. First disk I installed OS9. Then I installed OSX 10.4 on the second partition.

It boots to OSX by default but I can access OS9 from the menu using Option key on boot.  Neither OS recognises the other in Startup Disk so afaik it's boot menu only. However both of the actual partitions are visible and usable in both OSs.

Offline Bolkonskij

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1305 on: October 18, 2021, 11:50:03 PM »
I've been given a Mac Mini G4 by a generous soul. As I'm trying out OS9 on it (works great thus far!) I noticed a very strange issue.

Sometimes when switching applications some won't accept any keyboard input. So I can e.g. chat on the Hotline Client but at the same time SimpleText will not accept my keystrokes.

I'm using an Apple Pro Keyboard directly connected to the USB port of the Mini. Using a German keyboard layout at the moment.I noticed, however, that keyboard detection will work again if I switch e.g. to a U.S. keyboard layout.

Something wrong with the German keyboard layout? Is this a known issue? Does anyone know where it is stored in the System Folder? (in Regions & language support?) Thinking about replacing it with the version from a regular OS9.2.2 install disc.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1306 on: October 19, 2021, 05:47:42 AM »
It boots to OSX by default but I can access OS9 from the menu using Option key on boot.  Neither OS recognises the other in Startup Disk so afaik it's boot menu only. However both of the actual partitions are visible and usable in both OSs.

that is exactly how it is.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1307 on: October 19, 2021, 06:16:33 AM »
I noticed, however, that keyboard detection will work again if I switch e.g. to a U.S. keyboard layout.

i know that symptome, and this fix for it, only from windows OS.

all i can do is guessing: changing the layout probably reinvokes the USB driver or something in that area.

regarding location: keybord layouts of type "kfil" must be located IN the System file.

you can also remove the factory content from the system, but please leave at least one inside. :)


and nobody asked for this... but you can even copy the KCHR resource from a kfil into a "localized" file of OSX in order to run something there which does not exist for OSX.

might be useful only for people from georgia or owners of a digidesign protools keyboard.
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Offline Bolkonskij

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1308 on: October 26, 2021, 09:13:48 AM »
Thanks for the info! I've since activated the keyboard shortcuts to switch between German and U.S., so a quick switch back and forth solves the problem. The problem does not occur so often that it would get too annoying, so I can cope with that.

What is more annoying is that the German keyboard layout and its mapping are incorrect? I do not have this problem with 9.2.2 on the MDD. It's only on the Mini. For instance, if I hit the key for ≤ ≥ which is located to the right of the left shift key on a German Apple Pro keyboard, I get the character ^ printed.

I used an oldie-but-goldie, ASCII Chart, to show me all characters in the font. It shows me < and > as being present, but the key gets incorrectly mapped when I press it. I haven't ever run into a problem like this so I figure it's a Mini 9.2.2 specific problem.

Can somebody else reproduce the problem?
Is there an easy fix for this kind of mapping problem?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2021, 09:24:12 AM by Bolkonskij »
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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1309 on: October 26, 2021, 11:18:52 AM »
Thanks for the info! I've since activated the keyboard shortcuts to switch between German and U.S., so a quick switch back and forth solves the problem. The problem does not occur so often that it would get too annoying, so I can cope with that.

What is more annoying is that the German keyboard layout and its mapping are incorrect? I do not have this problem with 9.2.2 on the MDD. It's only on the Mini. For instance, if I hit the key for ≤ ≥ which is located to the right of the left shift key on a German Apple Pro keyboard, I get the character ^ printed.

I used an oldie-but-goldie, ASCII Chart, to show me all characters in the font. It shows me < and > as being present, but the key gets incorrectly mapped when I press it. I haven't ever run into a problem like this so I figure it's a Mini 9.2.2 specific problem.

Can somebody else reproduce the problem?
Is there an easy fix for this kind of mapping problem?

here's a quick fix for that (i've done it already on multiple machines because of some ANSI<>ISO problems:
- make a copy of your 'system' suitcase (in the system folder)
- open it in resedit
- open the KCHR group
- open the keyboard layout you want to edit (in your case it's probably german)
- drag and drop the desired characters to the keyboard on the bottom
- quit and save
- dropstuff your original system suitcase or just put it out of the system folder (but store it in a safe place)
- move the edited one in and make sure it's named 'System' and not something like 'System copy'

there, done.. :)

Offline Bolkonskij

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1310 on: October 26, 2021, 11:39:12 AM »
Great one, thanks! Didn't work as intended (though it certainly will in most cases), but it helps narrowing down the problem, which is:



The Apple Pro Keyboard isn't identified as such?

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1311 on: October 26, 2021, 01:25:49 PM »
Hi!
About keyboard on mini, I have another strange behavior on mine. I am using a keyboard from an iMac CRT, the last one with the power on button. This keyboard works perfectly on my Yikes but not on my mini. I have to power on the mini using its own switch. The one on the keyboard does nothing. :(

Does anyone have an idea ?

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1312 on: October 27, 2021, 04:13:06 AM »
Hi!
About keyboard on mini, I have another strange behavior on mine. I am using a keyboard from an iMac CRT, the last one with the power on button. This keyboard works perfectly on my Yikes but not on my mini. I have to power on the mini using its own switch. The one on the keyboard does nothing. :(

Does anyone have an idea ?

Unfortunately, so far as I’m aware only iMac G3’s, B&W G3’s, and Yikes! G4’s can be powered on via the keyboard. I can say for certain that later models simply ignore the keyboard entirely while off.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1313 on: October 28, 2021, 09:34:13 PM »
No one with an ideas as to what causes this problem or a possible cure?

Tried the obvious stuff (plugging in/out etc.). Works fine in OSX 10.4, keyboard also works fine on another Mac. Definitely has to do with the 9.2.2 on the Mini.

Appreciate any help!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 12:51:32 AM by Bolkonskij »
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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1314 on: October 29, 2021, 01:22:25 AM »
No one with an ideas as to what causes this problem or a possible cure?

Tried the obvious stuff (plugging in/out etc.). Works fine in OSX 10.4, keyboard also works fine on another Mac. Definitely has to do with the 9.2.2 on the Mini.

Appreciate any help!
your problem seems to be that your keyboard is not detected as an ISO one by the system for some reason. i've had this problem the other way around, i.e. using an ANSI keyboard with an european (hu in my case) layout, which is simpler to fix, because ANSI has less keys.

in your case, this detection is handled by the system which should happen automatically (because it's USB). i don't know whether this is done at the firmware / ROM / low system level or by an extension.
in the prior case you should contact the guys making the mini iso. in the latter case, however, you could try copying the USB extensions from your working machine and test if that helps.

anyway, someone more knowledgeable about how input device detection is handled in the classic mac OS should chime in about this.. : )

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1315 on: October 29, 2021, 07:43:28 AM »
9.2.2 has no layouts or real support for that model of Apple keyboard. It just came out way before it.

If you really want to use an Apple keyboard, buy an old Apple Pro keyboard.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1316 on: October 29, 2021, 12:03:19 PM »
9.2.2 has no layouts or real support for that model of Apple keyboard. It just came out way before it.

If you really want to use an Apple keyboard, buy an old Apple Pro keyboard.


i'm sorry but that is just not true. i've used all sorts of USB keyboards in OS 8/9 macs without problems, even modern mechanical ones and modern USB2ADB converters. the OS should be able to determine basic info like the number of reported keys and layout information without problems. this is a bug.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1317 on: October 31, 2021, 12:24:55 PM »
i'm sorry but that is just not true. i've used all sorts of USB keyboards in OS 8/9 macs without problems, even modern mechanical ones and modern USB2ADB converters.

Bolkonskij´s problem is that the mac mini keyboard does not have a > key, but the G4 pro keyboard has one.

that an operating system is able to detect that there is a keyboard, does not help with missing entries or alternated language kits.

though i must admit that i have no idea what apple was thinking when they did this, or what exactly causes his issue.

while i havent tried it with german yet, i can confirm that the US keyboard layout of our mini OS works with my G4 keyboard just fine.
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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1318 on: October 31, 2021, 12:32:09 PM »
About keyboard on mini, I have another strange behavior on mine. I am using a keyboard from an iMac CRT, the last one with the power on button.

support for power on/off from keyboard has officially ended with the beige G3, or in other words, since USB.

i have no idea why it works with the b/w G4s, and afaik i did not at all with the 1st gen imac where these keyboards were delivered with.

that is the one thing which is annoying with the minis: the power button is at the backside.
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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1319 on: October 31, 2021, 01:02:37 PM »
Brirec’s answer reminds me a post I have read some month ago. It is written in French but Google can be your friend I think.
Here it is:

https://www.journaldulapin.com/2015/01/22/le-bouton-dallumage-des-claviers-usb-comment-ca-marchait/

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1320 on: October 31, 2021, 01:13:01 PM »
wer von euch macht eigentlich sowas:



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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1321 on: October 31, 2021, 01:30:07 PM »
Brirec’s answer reminds me a post I have read some month ago

this custom usb knob is hilarious yet at the same time quite useful.

i am about to build a hardware solution atm, where a macmini, custom software and custom midi controllers are part of the setup - since there are no hardware equivalents for parts of it - a 16*16 matrix mixer.

the question how to turn on a mini which has been put into a 19" case (without bying something from sonnet and without using the original knob) is one of the open questions - and using an USB cable (literally no costs) would be really cool, because the  you dont have to leave the rackmount encosure open to reach it.

and i just love how he started up with debating weird meta questions about apple keyboards - and in the end he invented an interesting solution for all kind of purposes.

http://laut8leise.de/files/simples%20delay.png
http://laut8leise.de/files/88iger-standalone.png
http://laut8leise.de/files/mischerr.jpg
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