Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)

[xc68000]

I don't appear to be able to create a RAM disk with my 9.2.2 v9 install.  The control panel works but the disk is never created.  I'm trying to create a small one so I can enable VM (mini g4 has 1gb).

EDIT 8/29:  Confirming that I cannot create a RAM Disk on my 1.5ghz super mini, but using the same drive I can on my 1.25hz mini.  Perhaps there is something different between the two machines that prevents this.

Can someone with a 1.5 silent upgrade mini try creating a RAM disk in v9?

[kokakoda]

Booting the 9.2.2 v9 DVD works but as soon as the drive utility starts, i loose mouse function.  I can click the mouse but cannot move it.

There are documented mouse issues (exactly how you describe), but usually they are not as often as you are describing.... a few possible fixes...

1) if you have a genuine white apple mouse, use that
2) if you have a genuine apple keyboard (that you can plug the mouse into) try that
3) if you mouse is already in the keyboard, try plugging it into the mini directly
4) while the mouse is "paralyzed" unplug it while leaving the mini on, put it into the other USB and/or re-plug it in

I had the exact issues and while it was frozen I switched it to an apple mouse and it un-froze

Just to add to this, I only have generic PC keyboards and mice and had the same issue. What I ended up doing was booting the disc while holding 'shift' to load without extensions. Was surprised that worked - can't boot disc with C or access Startup Manager with Alt and was close to giving up.

[ELN]

jumping in to make sure that some things aren’t forgotten.

The issue that sometimes prevents the cursor from moving but allows it to click the Apple menu: in my experience, this only happens when a widely circulated archive of “patched” ATI drivers is installed. Long post a couple of years ago. Use the vanilla drivers.

A blinking question mark usually means that the boot disk hasn’t been formatted with the “Mac OS 9 Drivers”. I wrote a patch to fix it, but honestly the easiest fix is just to wipe your disk with Drive Setup. Another cause is a hardware fault, namely a hard drive that returns a lot of read errors.

[zefrenchtoon]

In case of you did not see it, here is a thead about getting sound working on mini using cheap USB audio adapters:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5952.0.html

[vacheuk]

Just wondering if there's a way to dual boot this between OS9 and OSX on separate disks?

I'm running my setup a little differently to most; using an IDE to SD adapter with an extension ribbon so I can change the SD disk easily.

Would I be able to just take the OS9 SD out, put a new one in and install OSX, or will I come up against OF issues?

Just in case you still wanted to know, yes I think this should work.

I have a IDE->CF adapter with a 32Gb card in mine.  I partitioned in two equal parts. First disk I installed OS9. Then I installed OSX 10.4 on the second partition.

It boots to OSX by default but I can access OS9 from the menu using Option key on boot.  Neither OS recognises the other in Startup Disk so afaik it's boot menu only. However both of the actual partitions are visible and usable in both OSs.

[Bolkonskij]

I've been given a Mac Mini G4 by a generous soul. As I'm trying out OS9 on it (works great thus far!) I noticed a very strange issue.

Sometimes when switching applications some won't accept any keyboard input. So I can e.g. chat on the Hotline Client but at the same time SimpleText will not accept my keystrokes.

I'm using an Apple Pro Keyboard directly connected to the USB port of the Mini. Using a German keyboard layout at the moment.I noticed, however, that keyboard detection will work again if I switch e.g. to a U.S. keyboard layout.

Something wrong with the German keyboard layout? Is this a known issue? Does anyone know where it is stored in the System Folder? (in Regions & language support?) Thinking about replacing it with the version from a regular OS9.2.2 install disc.

[IIO]

It boots to OSX by default but I can access OS9 from the menu using Option key on boot.  Neither OS recognises the other in Startup Disk so afaik it's boot menu only. However both of the actual partitions are visible and usable in both OSs.

that is exactly how it is.

[IIO]

I noticed, however, that keyboard detection will work again if I switch e.g. to a U.S. keyboard layout.

i know that symptome, and this fix for it, only from windows OS.

all i can do is guessing: changing the layout probably reinvokes the USB driver or something in that area.

regarding location: keybord layouts of type "kfil" must be located IN the System file.

you can also remove the factory content from the system, but please leave at least one inside.


and nobody asked for this... but you can even copy the KCHR resource from a kfil into a "localized" file of OSX in order to run something there which does not exist for OSX.

might be useful only for people from georgia or owners of a digidesign protools keyboard.

[Bolkonskij]

Thanks for the info! I've since activated the keyboard shortcuts to switch between German and U.S., so a quick switch back and forth solves the problem. The problem does not occur so often that it would get too annoying, so I can cope with that.

What is more annoying is that the German keyboard layout and its mapping are incorrect? I do not have this problem with 9.2.2 on the MDD. It's only on the Mini. For instance, if I hit the key for ≤ ≥ which is located to the right of the left shift key on a German Apple Pro keyboard, I get the character ^ printed.

I used an oldie-but-goldie, ASCII Chart, to show me all characters in the font. It shows me < and > as being present, but the key gets incorrectly mapped when I press it. I haven't ever run into a problem like this so I figure it's a Mini 9.2.2 specific problem.

Can somebody else reproduce the problem?
Is there an easy fix for this kind of mapping problem?

[bamdad]

Thanks for the info! I've since activated the keyboard shortcuts to switch between German and U.S., so a quick switch back and forth solves the problem. The problem does not occur so often that it would get too annoying, so I can cope with that.

What is more annoying is that the German keyboard layout and its mapping are incorrect? I do not have this problem with 9.2.2 on the MDD. It's only on the Mini. For instance, if I hit the key for ≤ ≥ which is located to the right of the left shift key on a German Apple Pro keyboard, I get the character ^ printed.

I used an oldie-but-goldie, ASCII Chart, to show me all characters in the font. It shows me < and > as being present, but the key gets incorrectly mapped when I press it. I haven't ever run into a problem like this so I figure it's a Mini 9.2.2 specific problem.

Can somebody else reproduce the problem?
Is there an easy fix for this kind of mapping problem?

here's a quick fix for that (i've done it already on multiple machines because of some ANSI<>ISO problems:
- make a copy of your 'system' suitcase (in the system folder)
- open it in resedit
- open the KCHR group
- open the keyboard layout you want to edit (in your case it's probably german)
- drag and drop the desired characters to the keyboard on the bottom
- quit and save
- dropstuff your original system suitcase or just put it out of the system folder (but store it in a safe place)
- move the edited one in and make sure it's named 'System' and not something like 'System copy'

there, done.. :)

[Bolkonskij]

Great one, thanks! Didn't work as intended (though it certainly will in most cases), but it helps narrowing down the problem, which is:



The Apple Pro Keyboard isn't identified as such?

[zefrenchtoon]

Hi!
About keyboard on mini, I have another strange behavior on mine. I am using a keyboard from an iMac CRT, the last one with the power on button. This keyboard works perfectly on my Yikes but not on my mini. I have to power on the mini using its own switch. The one on the keyboard does nothing.

Does anyone have an idea ?

[brirec]

Hi!
About keyboard on mini, I have another strange behavior on mine. I am using a keyboard from an iMac CRT, the last one with the power on button. This keyboard works perfectly on my Yikes but not on my mini. I have to power on the mini using its own switch. The one on the keyboard does nothing.

Does anyone have an idea ?

Unfortunately, so far as I’m aware only iMac G3’s, B&W G3’s, and Yikes! G4’s can be powered on via the keyboard. I can say for certain that later models simply ignore the keyboard entirely while off.

[Bolkonskij]

No one with an ideas as to what causes this problem or a possible cure?

Tried the obvious stuff (plugging in/out etc.). Works fine in OSX 10.4, keyboard also works fine on another Mac. Definitely has to do with the 9.2.2 on the Mini.

Appreciate any help!

[bamdad]

No one with an ideas as to what causes this problem or a possible cure?

Tried the obvious stuff (plugging in/out etc.). Works fine in OSX 10.4, keyboard also works fine on another Mac. Definitely has to do with the 9.2.2 on the Mini.

Appreciate any help!

your problem seems to be that your keyboard is not detected as an ISO one by the system for some reason. i've had this problem the other way around, i.e. using an ANSI keyboard with an european (hu in my case) layout, which is simpler to fix, because ANSI has less keys.

in your case, this detection is handled by the system which should happen automatically (because it's USB). i don't know whether this is done at the firmware / ROM / low system level or by an extension.
in the prior case you should contact the guys making the mini iso. in the latter case, however, you could try copying the USB extensions from your working machine and test if that helps.

anyway, someone more knowledgeable about how input device detection is handled in the classic mac OS should chime in about this.. : )

[brirec]

9.2.2 has no layouts or real support for that model of Apple keyboard. It just came out way before it.

If you really want to use an Apple keyboard, buy an old Apple Pro keyboard.

[bamdad]

9.2.2 has no layouts or real support for that model of Apple keyboard. It just came out way before it.

If you really want to use an Apple keyboard, buy an old Apple Pro keyboard.

i'm sorry but that is just not true. i've used all sorts of USB keyboards in OS 8/9 macs without problems, even modern mechanical ones and modern USB2ADB converters. the OS should be able to determine basic info like the number of reported keys and layout information without problems. this is a bug.

[IIO]

i'm sorry but that is just not true. i've used all sorts of USB keyboards in OS 8/9 macs without problems, even modern mechanical ones and modern USB2ADB converters.

Bolkonskij´s problem is that the mac mini keyboard does not have a > key, but the G4 pro keyboard has one.

that an operating system is able to detect that there is a keyboard, does not help with missing entries or alternated language kits.

though i must admit that i have no idea what apple was thinking when they did this, or what exactly causes his issue.

while i havent tried it with german yet, i can confirm that the US keyboard layout of our mini OS works with my G4 keyboard just fine.

[IIO]

About keyboard on mini, I have another strange behavior on mine. I am using a keyboard from an iMac CRT, the last one with the power on button.

support for power on/off from keyboard has officially ended with the beige G3, or in other words, since USB.

i have no idea why it works with the b/w G4s, and afaik i did not at all with the 1st gen imac where these keyboards were delivered with.

that is the one thing which is annoying with the minis: the power button is at the backside.

[zefrenchtoon]

Brirec’s answer reminds me a post I have read some month ago. It is written in French but Google can be your friend I think.
Here it is:

https://www.journaldulapin.com/2015/01/22/le-bouton-dallumage-des-claviers-usb-comment-ca-marchait/