Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 180492 times)

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #975 on: August 31, 2019, 06:12:53 AM »
We ran into the mouse stuck on the Apple logo, but it did register clicks, on the emulated Rage 128 Pro in Qemu, after we got the 'NDRV' working for the  Mac OS.

Zoltan made a patch, and that fixed the issue with OS 9, but broke OS X booting with the 'NDRV'.

As I took the 'NDRV' we use from 10.3.7, I wouldn't rule out the 'NDRV' as the root of the mouse freeze issue.......

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #976 on: August 31, 2019, 06:27:55 AM »
It's NOT the mini, first time is a charm with file sharing, I have seen it take 2 hours :(

https://happymacs.wordpress.com/2013/07/09/will-file-sharing-ever-start/

Oh, that's great to know. "2 hours", huh? I'm not sure if I waited that long. I'll leave the mini on doing that for 24 hours now. Hopefully it will start up by then.

On another note:

This was the command I needed to run to "bless" the OS 9 system folder, from within OS X:

Code: [Select]
sudo bless -folder9 "/Volumes/MacHD/System Folder" -use9 -bootBlockFile "/usr/share/misc/bootblockdata"
At this point, I could boot successfully into OS 9.

This didn't work for me, no matter what I try. The mini would always boot back to OS X.

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #977 on: August 31, 2019, 07:59:06 AM »
It took forever, but now File Sharing is really on! Thanks, DieHard! :D

Offline macarone

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #978 on: August 31, 2019, 10:18:57 AM »
> This didn't work for me, no matter what I try. The mini would always boot back to OS X

When all other methods (for eg. putting Finder on the Desktop, and then dropping it on System Folder) did not work, I found that running DiskWarrior on the OS 9 partition while booted into OS X, DID produce a blessed OS 9 System Folder.

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #979 on: August 31, 2019, 12:20:40 PM »
> This didn't work for me, no matter what I try. The mini would always boot back to OS X

When all other methods (for eg. putting Finder on the Desktop, and then dropping it on System Folder) did not work, I found that running DiskWarrior on the OS 9 partition while booted into OS X, DID produce a blessed OS 9 System Folder.
... Wait, my bad, I just realized I made a mistake. Somehow I was thinking this command would select my OS 9 partition as the Startup Disk (by blessing it), but that's a separate issue, and somehow I mixed the 2 things together in my head. lol

In that case, nevermind that statement I made.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #980 on: August 31, 2019, 12:33:27 PM »
This didn't work for me, no matter what I try. The mini would always boot back to OS X.

(if i am not lost this time) this is a known issue of the mini OS.

so either you have to use two disks when you want to boot both OSes, or you have to use the bootmanager.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #981 on: August 31, 2019, 03:57:41 PM »
I think that if you can get Mac OS 9 booting by default, then you can hold “X” at boot to switch OS temporarily.

Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #982 on: September 01, 2019, 07:09:52 PM »
We ran into the mouse stuck on the Apple logo, but it did register clicks, on the emulated Rage 128 Pro in Qemu, after we got the 'NDRV' working for the  Mac OS.

Zoltan made a patch, and that fixed the issue with OS 9, but broke OS X booting with the 'NDRV'.

As I took the 'NDRV' we use from 10.3.7, I wouldn't rule out the 'NDRV' as the root of the mouse freeze issue.......

Fascinating! It looks like you’ve cracked it. Mind forwarding me the details?

Offline SKYLANE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #983 on: September 15, 2019, 11:55:03 PM »
I have a Wallstreet PDQ with OS 9.2.2 on it.  I have several files on it that I would like to print and manage a bit, perhaps play with some old programs while I am at it.  I wished I could run OS9 from a faster platform and larger screen.  When I stumbled onto this site after watching the YouTube installation, I had found the perfect use for my trusty ol' MacMini 1.5 GHz G4, this is the one with all the silent upgrades.  I blew the dust off of is and downloaded the Bootable ISO v8 and followed the instructions to install on my MacMini with success!  I performed the installation around the end of 2018 (I think), I had to put playing around with it down until a later date which is now SEP 2019.

Last night, I had both my MacMini and Wallstreet PDQ on my current existing home network via ethernet.  Started File Sharing after setting it up, and with great success was able to move my files and apps from the Wallstreet PDQ over to the MacMini.  Everything seems to be running OK except MacDraw II 1.1, runs ok on my Wallstreet PDQ but looks weird when launched on MacMini.  I would love to figure out this issue as this was one of the main programs that I like to play with.

My files for Word, Excel, PowerPoint 2001 seem to all work fine.

I was never able to get the resolution to setup right with my 1920x1080 Samsung Monitor/TV.  Once I set the Samsung to 4:3 resolution and set up a corresponding resolution (4:3) in monitors, the OS 9 desktop looks terrific.

Offline SKYLANE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #984 on: September 16, 2019, 09:00:51 PM »
Regarding my post above, why would MacDraw II (1.1) work on the Wallstreet PDQ but not on the Mac Mini G4?  Does any one have MacDraw working on their Mac 9.2.2 in an unsupported machine?  If so, what version?

I do have MacDraw Pro that works, but I can open the older MacDraw files with it.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #985 on: September 20, 2019, 12:28:32 PM »
i dont know macdraw, but you might have forgotten to move required drivers, libraries, or simply its preference file from the systemfolder.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #986 on: September 29, 2019, 05:55:20 PM »
@SKYLANE
I got acquainted with MacDraw and its entire history just for the sake of seeing how well it fares with 9.2.2 on the Mac mini G4 1.5GHz. Results:

Everything works perfectly with MacDraw II 1.1v2 on Mac OS 9.2.2 on the Mac mini G4 1.5GHz. But under one condition: color depth needs to be anything other than set to Millions of Colors, else it looks funky, and/or the program destabilizes. Using Thousands of Colors or 256 Colors for color depth resulted in the program being 100% functional.
The issue with Millions of Colors quite possibly would also be there on the Wallstreet G3 (wish mine still worked to actually test it out). Can you check if it actually handles MacDraw II properly on your WallStreet with Millions of Colors for color depth selected?
In any case, looks like it works just fine! Just need to use the proper color depth.

Regardless, I thought the latest version of MacDraw (ClarisDraw 1.0v4) could handle all MacDraw files of any previous version perfectly? Apparently MacDraw II is from 1989, while ClarisDraw is from 1994. Can't it handle your needs? (Note: MacDraw Pro is stuck between those two versions in the timeline. So if that can't do something, perhaps ClarisDraw can?)

If desired, the latest version can be found here.

Hope any of this helps.

Offline ELN

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Frozen mouse fixed on Mac mini
« Reply #987 on: October 09, 2019, 08:38:28 PM »
I have fixed the frozen mouse bug!

It was, as darthnVader hinted earlier, caused by the ATI extensions. So I took a deep dive into the ATI driver architecture. This is the typical "life cycle" of an ATI card in a NewWorld Mac:
  • If the card firmware lacks an ndrv (e.g. the Radeon 9200 in the mini), the MacOS uses its generic "COFB" ndrv to get basic video.
  • Extensions are loaded from disk. The ATI ROM Xtender or iMic's hacked "ATI Via Driver" extension can replace the previously loaded ndrv. No graphical acceleration yet.
  • The complex array of ATI extensions steps in, asks the loaded ndrv about the card using some private Status calls, and loads some acceleration code if the card is recognised. Accelerated 2D requires "ATI Resource Manager" and "ATI Graphics Accelerator" at minimum.

This was darthnVader's solution to get graphics acceleration working:
  • Insert a Mac OS X ndrv into iMic "ATI Via Driver" (better called "ATI RockHopper2 Driver" after the change).
  • Replace all or most occurrences of the 5961 device ID in the other extensions with 5962. Both IDs refer to the Radeon 9200, but the extensions only knew about the 5961 ID. (Occurrences of 5960 were also replaced -- see below.)

DarthnVader effectively turned our minis into Mac OS 9 gaming rigs! Unfortunately, one of the binary patches intermittently broke hardware cursor support. It might be due to the way that the PowerPC compiler optimised select/case blocks. Sometimes I also experienced a black screen when the ATI extensions loaded, which I think was related.

This is my solution:
  • Insert the same Mac OS X ndrv (ATY,RockHopper2 v1.0.1f63, from Mac OS X 10.3.6) into the Mac OS ROM as an ndrv parcel, to mimic a firmware driver.
  • Patch that ndrv to replace 5962 with 5961 whenever it reads from PCI Configuration Space.
  • Use the unmodified ATI extensions from January 2005.
    • The extensions that we host in "9200os9.sit", supposedly from the rare July 2005 release, do not work.
    • I think that they were binary-patched to enable support for the DVI-I Radeon 9200 card, ID 5960. Specifically, the accl 4 resource of the "ATI Graphics Accelerator" is an identical build to January 2005, including the build date, but has 2/2 occurrences of 5961 replaced with 5960. It would be good to find the originals.

So here is my first ROM release of the year. It was derived from the "OS9General" Mac OS ROM (v9.6.1) using my portable Mac mini patching system: https://github.com/elliotnunn/tbxi-patches/blob/7a5d179/macmini.py

My ATALoad patch has also been applied, to allow Mac OS 9 to boot from volumes that were formatted for Mac OS X, without first wiping the disk with "Mac OS 9 Drivers". I think that this is especially useful on machines that were formerly Mac OS X-only.

I recommend that this ROM be included in a new release of the Mac mini ISO. It should be combined with the unmodified ATI extensions from January 2005.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #988 on: October 09, 2019, 08:51:51 PM »
we really need to have "like" buttons here.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #989 on: October 10, 2019, 08:27:03 AM »
Quote
I recommend that this ROM be included in a new release of the Mac mini ISO. It should be combined with the unmodified ATI extensions from January 2005.

ELN, your post was like a tall glass of fresh spring water after a long drought; we have been quiet here, but that is to be expected with some topics and downloads at over 100K 200K views we may have tapped out all the interested users, which is amazing in itself.  The details were fascinating and I appreciate all the time it took to created the new ROM and explain the process.

My personal mini has been in a storage unit for 6 months,  After closing my retail computer store, having surgery, and re-opening a new office for computer consulting, I am  finally back in the mode and getting back to macs and music.  I will breakout the mini and try the new ROM this week.  I am hoping that Ross reads all of this and has the time and energy to create a v9 mini Install and I will post it.

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #990 on: October 15, 2019, 10:44:13 PM »
I loved that write-up, ELN. It's both concisely written and incredibly useful. Well done for both troubleshooting the issue and patching it!

I have one question, though: is there something users of the 1.5GHz version of the mini should look out for in regards to the fact the included Radeon 6200 chip is the 64MB VRAM version instead of the 32MB version present on the other 3 mini models? (1.25GHz, 1.33GHz and 1.42GHz.) I wondered if that posed any relevance regarding all the NDRVs and whatnot.

Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #991 on: October 16, 2019, 12:20:50 AM »
Thanks!

I don’t think that this means any change for the super-mini. The ATI software checks the amount of VRAM present and behaves appropriately.

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #992 on: October 16, 2019, 09:32:41 AM »
Just had a read of everything - great work! I’ll make a v9 iso.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline FdB

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #993 on: October 16, 2019, 10:15:05 AM »
YAY!!!
This Must Be The Place

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #994 on: October 16, 2019, 11:28:45 AM »
2020/2: mini audio issue

2020/7: usb 2 driver

....: G5?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline MacTron

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Re: Frozen mouse fixed on Mac mini
« Reply #995 on: October 16, 2019, 01:04:54 PM »
Congratulations! Really awesome work! (Again!  ;D)

As you know I'm using some of your stuff in the unsupported eMac 1.25. Even through the machine works really well with Mac Os 9, it still suffer the frozen mouse bug. Can you please replicate this procedure for the eMac.
I'm using the "normal mini with happymactron" ROM (from  2018-04-08) and the ATI,Merlin video drivers ( by darthnVader).

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4361.0.html




Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #996 on: October 16, 2019, 04:48:11 PM »
You know, it maybe worth trying to get the ATI Video extension working with this new patched ROM.

Maybe it won't hang the system anymore and we could get DVD playback?

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #997 on: October 17, 2019, 05:26:01 AM »

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #998 on: October 17, 2019, 08:19:46 AM »
Quote
2020/2: mini audio issue

2020/7: usb 2 driver

....: G5?

LOL, What ungrateful lads... ELN please ignore all of us, we are a bunch of greedy members that are drunk with power...from your hard work :)

The USB2 Driver is doomed and hence FW 4Ever !

The Mini audio issue still has the jury out, maybe there's hope

The G5.... load Tiger and classic, cause that is very doubtful from our previous discussions guys

We appreciate your efforts and we are all extremely happy that you also "never give up"; It seems to be a trend here, the last holdout of tenacious "old School" programmers who just make it happen.  The newbies would have given up long ago with excuses and claiming... "it is not possible"

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #999 on: October 17, 2019, 08:22:10 AM »
Just had a read of everything - great work! I’ll make a v9 iso.

I just renewed and expanded the Online storage, so V9 has a home for a while :)

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1000 on: October 17, 2019, 01:17:49 PM »
i just wanted to be helpful by setting deadlines.

i am the most important staff member - i am the scrum manager. :D :D :D
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1001 on: October 17, 2019, 01:23:43 PM »
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1002 on: October 17, 2019, 04:21:26 PM »
MacTron, I’ll cook something up for you.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1003 on: October 19, 2019, 07:27:47 AM »
You know, it maybe worth trying to get the ATI Video extension working with this new patched ROM.

Maybe it won't hang the system anymore and we could get DVD playback?
this will be really great! ;D
... but take into account that none the new Mac Mini ROMs boot the eMac, only the "normal mini with happymactron" from 2018-04-08, AFAIK
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline SKYLANE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1004 on: October 20, 2019, 12:05:42 PM »
Jubadub

Not selecting Millions in Color Depth does indeed allow my MacDraw to function properly on my Mac Mini 1.5 GHz machine!  Thanks!  BTW, as requested, I fired up the Wallstreet PDQ and set it to Millions, MacDraw does not work there at that Color Depth either.  I must have known that at one time and long forgotten about it!

Jeff

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1005 on: October 21, 2019, 02:50:14 PM »
@SKYLANE

Great to hear OS 9 behaves equally across both machines! One more point goes to the Mac mini G4 under 9.2.2. :)

Offline wjefferson

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1006 on: November 16, 2019, 05:42:45 PM »
I have been using  ELN's new ROM for a couple of weeks now, but I'm afraid to say that the mouse still freezes occasionally at a startup. It may now freeze less often, say one in ten instead of one in five. I must have now started up my mini 50 times or more, and definitely remember a few times of freeze.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1007 on: November 17, 2019, 05:03:32 AM »
thanks for feedback. you also have switched back your mini OS  to original 2005 ati drivers?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline wjefferson

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1008 on: November 17, 2019, 06:50:23 PM »
Yes, I used the original drivers. With the modified drivers, the mac started up, but only with graphic acceleration turned off.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 07:21:30 PM by wjefferson »

Offline mrhappy

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1009 on: November 18, 2019, 11:03:58 PM »
So I finally got around to 'OS9ing' my mini... It seemed to go well and booted but then I realized that there were no menus across the top of the screen (apple menu, special, etc.). Would this be a resolution issue, as in...  its there but I just can't see it??  Everything else looked normal to me. I feel like something like this happened a few years back but I don't remember any specifics.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1010 on: November 19, 2019, 01:33:38 AM »
that happens when your monitor prefs think it would be the second screen of two & positioned on the left.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline mrhappy

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1011 on: November 20, 2019, 07:18:52 AM »
that happens when your monitor prefs think it would be the second screen of two & positioned on the left.

*UPDATE*    'Slow Adult' ALERT!!!!  Just needed to restart after install ( it was late when I did it) ... all seems well! Time for some 'INSTANT DAW' action!!! ;D

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1012 on: November 20, 2019, 11:29:30 AM »
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Nymunariya

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1013 on: November 24, 2019, 02:12:07 AM »
after finally getting around to test some more of (pure) V8 (I don't know how to compile roms and didn't do anything with NDVR(?)) I realised that a few of my problems had simple workarounds.

Mouse: my problem was I that I was plugging my keyboard into a usb hub. Either the hub didn't get enough power, or the Mini just didn't know what to do with it. After getting a USB extension cable, and plugging my grape M2452 iMac keyboard and the USB mouse to that, I had maybe ... 15%ish mouse failure rate, where the mouse would click, but not move.  A restart fixed it. 

Sound: Alert sounds would not work, but normal sounds worked perfectly fine through the headphone out jack to my monitor. Though when playing Descent 3, whenever I get close to a robot that's exploding, my speakers sound like they're going to explode (just full on sound distortion/crackling), regardless of the volume level in Descent.  My speakers were less than 50% volume, but still sounded like the Mini was amplifying the sound to 200.

Graphics: mostly good.  I only really experimented with Descent 3, Riddle of the Sphinx, and The Crystal Key.  The latter two properly switched resolutions (DVI-VGA, though I ordered a DVI->HDMI cord which I want to try out this week), and looked great (probably 640x480), but Descent 3 would not change resolution and was in a tiny 640x480 box on my monitor.

I tried to apply the updates from V8 to my German install, because I would really like to use OS 9 in German.  Unfortunately it looks like the System suitcase has been modified and that dictates where items are found in German or English named system folders.  So after copying items over (to the German install) I realised that my German install is only 9.2.1.  The resolution was locked to a 4:3.  Sound did not even work over headphone jack. I don't remember if mouse work.  My temporary solution was to copy over the German finder, control panels, and a few "core" apps like Chooser.  But I'm not going to give up yet ... unless y'all have made drastic changes to the system suitcase ...

Also, does anybody have info on how to get the Tiger startup control panel to show OS9 on unsupported macs?
iBook G3 Grape 366MHz, 320MB RAM, 30GB SSD, Mac OS 9.2 | PowerMac G4 FW800 Dual 1.25GHz, Mac OS 9.2, Mac OS X 10.4 | MacBook Air, Mid2011, 900GB SSD, Mac OS X 10.10

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1014 on: November 24, 2019, 02:23:30 AM »
the latter isnt supported on the mini, you´d need to put either OS on another disk or use the startup manager.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Nymunariya

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1015 on: November 24, 2019, 03:01:08 AM »
so I've apparently got the German version of OS 9 booting up fine, 5:4 resolution is looking good.  I'll try it on my 16:9 monitor next. I think I mistakenly took a D-9.2.1 suitcase yesterday.

Everything looks fine.  16:9 boots up properly.  It's just a regular(?) D-9.2.2 install, with the files from the V8 update, minus the suitcase and testfile.  However it does have the problem that my iBook has where I need a moment before I can use the finder.  The EN V8 9.2.2 does not have that problem.

I do have a separate partition for OS9, so I can boot into it while holding down option. But it would be nice if Tiger played nice with it.  There's got to be a defaults flag that one can set.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 05:40:36 AM by Nymunariya »
iBook G3 Grape 366MHz, 320MB RAM, 30GB SSD, Mac OS 9.2 | PowerMac G4 FW800 Dual 1.25GHz, Mac OS 9.2, Mac OS X 10.4 | MacBook Air, Mid2011, 900GB SSD, Mac OS X 10.10

Offline ximiimx

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1016 on: November 25, 2019, 10:53:25 PM »
About the USB fix....
I take what? And add it to where?
I’m not a programmer, and get lost in some of these discussions....
But I’m thrilled and fascinated by the work being done.
I’m still looking forward to the V 8.1 Installer of this. (Or whichever number it gets)
Thank you.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1017 on: November 26, 2019, 12:54:00 AM »
v 8.0 + new ROM file + regular ATI drivers instead of the ones from v 8.0

or wait :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1018 on: December 06, 2019, 08:28:58 AM »
@Nymunariya

Nothing but the ROM file has been modified (and ATI drivers, if on v8 and earlier). As such, a lot of the problems you detected are unrelated to any of this (like the suitcase issue you had).

Any language OS 9.2.2 installation will also work fine, as long as it doesn't require different assets located in the ROM file. But if it does, that has been done before: Some pages back, there was someone who was instructed on how to "merge" the ROM with a Chinese ROM via IIRC ResEdit, for example, so even such cases are doable, and, if ever needed, you may consult that for help.

Sound works perfectly via a USB audio adapter (mentioned and linked to many times by now).

Graphics work as perfectly as they do on any other Mac with that GPU or an equivalent GPU.

A USB hub works fine for the task (and what you used seemed like just another USB hub, with less ports), as long as it's externally powered, as well. The "mouse bug" is, as far as we know, completely unrelated to the usage or lack thereof of USB hubs. (It happens with or without them. A restart sometimes will and sometimes will not fix the issue. Most of the times, it does.)

Getting OS 9 recognized on OS X has indeed been asked about before, too, and that requires either spoofing the machine ID to something OS X acknowledges as a Mac-OS-9-compatible Mac, or hacking the Startup Disk module of OS X (maybe editing .plist files could do it?), so as it is, alt/option-booting is the only currently-available option to switch between them.
For the record, all Mac mini G4s are also technically 10.2.8 Jaguar compatible (no GPU acceleration) and 10.3.4+ Panther, besides 10.4 Tiger and 10.5 Leopard. (The switching issue persists across all of them.)

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1019 on: December 06, 2019, 11:16:57 AM »
Quote
For the record, all Mac mini G4s are also technically 10.2.8 Jaguar compatible (no GPU acceleration) and 10.3.4+ Panther, besides 10.4 Tiger and 10.5 Leopard. (The switching issue persists across all of them.)

The Mini has always been an absolute snail under OS X anyway, IMO that is what made this whole undertaking worthwhile, it absolutely shines as an OS9 machine. 

There have been many changes for me over the last year... a painful operation, closing my retail PC store (over 20 years of stuff to move) and my brother/business partner moved out of liberal CA to conservative Florida because of his beliefs. But nothing gets Diehard down, I am finally getting back to moving all the site archives to my external RAIDs and getting back to playing with the mini again.  It will now become the main unit for the site to test OS9 software.  I am feeling optimistic toward 2020.  I now have moved the business to an office environment which may even give me the extra time to archive many CDs and DVDs that never made it to the download section.

I know many core users have been quiet, but I don't think it's a lack of interest, I think it's just life... we are all getting older and we have already accomplished so much with the old macs that the breakthroughs for 2020 may be very limited. I hope we are still getting some youthful members that will carry on the torch.  We will keep the ball rolling for as long as the info. here is needed and relevant; hopefully until the last member kicks the bucket in 2110.

Offline FdB

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« Reply #1020 on: December 06, 2019, 01:10:04 PM »
All Hail Diehard!

Happy to see the return (never really left - did he?) and with even greater resolve and resilience… perhaps related to that of all our beloved OS9 machines.

“Quiet”? (I lurk here many times a day.)

The Mac Minis have now multiplied here like rabbits and just as soon as I wade through this final bunch of portable guitar amplifiers, I’ll be back and recording those samples with a Mini! Currently there are 20 portable amps in-house (and only one continues to avoid resurrection). Without MacOS9Lives, OS9 and everyone’s help here, I would never have ever attempted this deep-dive down this portable amplifier rabbit hole.

And… even now as many may think that OS9 has long been dead… there are those of us that know that “it ain’t necessarily so”. And also as DieHard has intimated… there are youthful members here to continue the effort(s). “The Gang” cr-hacked the Mini and while “no-new-horizons” might seem to be a prevalent mindset… well, just wait and see what the yutes here might eventually reveal. Onward!

Ever feel like we all share this surprising “little secret”? >OS9

“…we are all getting older”
            Get off my lawn! -FdB :o
This Must Be The Place

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1021 on: December 06, 2019, 01:10:18 PM »
i am sure all goes well for you in 2020, DH. <3

it is quiet here but that doesnt mean nobody is working on things. curiously watching OS923´s finder-releated discoveries and code fragments.^^
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1022 on: December 06, 2019, 01:12:06 PM »
damn, 14 seconds.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline mrhappy

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1023 on: December 07, 2019, 09:52:43 AM »
i am sure all goes well for you in 2020, DH. <3

it is quiet here but that doesnt mean nobody is working on things. curiously watching OS923´s finder-releated discoveries and code fragments.^^

Yes... same here!

It seems that it's after these 'quiet' phases that all hell breaks loose!

MacTron... 'so I was playing around with this ASR thingy'.... BAMMM.... INSTANT DAW!!!!!!!!!!!

Imic... 'so I was playing around with this ROM thingy'..... BAMMM..... UNSUPPORTED OS9!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes, those quotes are paraphrased! Haha!! ;D

Who knows what MacTron is cooking up in his basement OS9 laboratory.... down there in his lab coat smoking a pipe and playing around with some obscure PCI card that will Bluetooth SATA to his Apple watch ( that he has running OS9!).... fyi, word on the street is that he doesn't wear anything under that lab coat!!! ;D ;D ;D

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1024 on: December 08, 2019, 09:40:28 AM »
I sure wish y'all an excellent 2020, as well as an excellent month of December in 2019. You're all correct about people independently working on OS-9 things quietly in their respective corners, and sometimes not so quietly, when you look at the interest and actions of people in other places, like in the Macintosh Garden (which I'm a regular of, as "Jatoba", always going on about OS 9).

Mac OS 9 Lives!

Quote
The Mini has always been an absolute snail under OS X anyway, IMO that is what made this whole undertaking worthwhile, it absolutely shines as an OS9 machine.

At least on the 1.5GHz minis (which are all I used), they work really well, even 10.5 Leopard, but who cares about OS X, anyway? Even if they worked better on a mini, it doesn't matter: OS 9 is superior in nearly every way in user experience, and software library, and system performance, and customizability, and modularity. It was unmatched then and is unmatched forever. 8)

I mentioned it just so people know what versions of OS X they can use on it if they ever need it for something incredibly specific. Much like keeping GNU/Linux, BSD or even MorphOS on the side. (Not that I need any of those anywhere near my minis. ;))

Quote
The Mac Minis have now multiplied here like rabbits

Haha, same here! ;D And I still think I need even more breeding of that!

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1025 on: December 11, 2019, 11:48:55 PM »
ELN, Nanopico & other Mac mini ROM hackers, I came across a utility today, by chance, which made me wonder if it could be of use to any of you, for inspecting Mac ROMs & understanding better what they contain.

It's called "ROM Sucker 2.0". I found it within the Fantasm 5.3 CD (to locate ROM Sucker, you need to "install" Fantasm, then search for the "Examples" folder).

From what I saw it do, it seemed to have promise in helping analyze a ROM, but only to a small degree. There's a good chance you guys' knowledge and accomplishments with the Mac mini ROM already go way beyond anything this app can offer, BUT I'm bringing this up just in case it may have the potential to assist further with things. Or be of help in some other situation.

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1026 on: January 08, 2020, 08:47:00 PM »
Somewhere along the thread, we took notice the Apple DVD Player didn't work on the mini, however, it does! All it requires is this minor patch (download #3). Just watched the Shaolin Soccer DVD on the Mac mini under OS 9. :)

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1027 on: January 10, 2020, 09:43:29 AM »
Somewhere along the thread, we took notice the Apple DVD Player didn't work on the mini, however, it does! All it requires is this minor patch (download #3). Just watched the Shaolin Soccer DVD on the Mac mini under OS 9. :)

OK, now that is a breakthrough !  I think we need to email Ross and get a new version of the Install ISO with New ROM and DVD patch already inserted :)

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1028 on: January 10, 2020, 10:10:26 AM »
*cough* or use VLC :)

but seriously, i love these fixes.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline ximiimx

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1029 on: January 19, 2020, 08:10:21 PM »
Has anybody had a problem with a white, menu bar sized line, on the left side of screen, stretching out toward the middle, after quitting iTunes?
I’ll try to get a picture....

Offline IIO

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"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1031 on: January 20, 2020, 02:49:28 PM »
I was checking out some of our older posts, and then I saw something I had completely forgotten I had written:

Random feedback, to everyone: when I used the Quicksilver-2002-based modified ROM for the Mac mini, I noticed the "freezing mouse" bug was completely gone. More precisely, what happened was that during boot, the mouse would freeze, but also unfreeze as soon as the system fully finished booting. Each time. The original purpose behind trying out that ROM back when ELN compiled it was to precisely fix the freezing mouse issue, and it looks like it did. It was switched back to the G4 Cube, because Ross reported he had sound issues he didn't have before.

In any case, that's something for us to keep in mind for later.

In other words, using the earlier Quicksilver-2002-based hacked Mac OS ROM totally evaded the mouse freeze bug, while the current G4 Cube one has the issue. I wonder what differs between the two ROMs that makes the problem disappear with the Quicksilver one?

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1032 on: January 20, 2020, 03:17:01 PM »
the "quicksilver ROM" isnt a hack, it´s the original. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline ivan_holmes

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1033 on: January 24, 2020, 06:40:36 AM »
Hi all,

I have lurked on this forum for a while and found it to be the definitive resource for people running Mac OS 9 today. I recently purchased a Mac mini G4 (1.25 but it was only £13!) to add to my existing collection of Macs (Dual 1.25 MDD, Dual 450 Gigabit Ethernet overclocked to 500) and I was so impressed by the ease of installation using the CD from this site.

I'm posting today to say thank you to everyone who contributed in some way to this.

At the moment I'm using the Mini to create images of Tiger and Leopard (fully updated etc.) that can be restored through ASR. I have successfully booted off OS X Tiger restored this way. Has anyone tried this before? It seems like a good time-saver.

Cheers,
Ivan

Offline mrhappy

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1034 on: January 24, 2020, 07:53:33 AM »

I have lurked on this forum for a while and found it to be the definitive resource for people running Mac OS 9 today.


Have to agree here!! ;D


At the moment I'm using the Mini to create images of Tiger and Leopard (fully updated etc.) that can be restored through ASR. I have successfully booted off OS X Tiger restored this way. Has anyone tried this before? It seems like a good time-saver.

ASR is quite the time saver!! Personally have only used it for OS 9 images but glad to hear that it works as well for Tiger and Leopard!

Offline ivan_holmes

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1035 on: January 26, 2020, 08:52:33 AM »
ASR is quite the time saver!! Personally have only used it for OS 9 images but glad to hear that it works as well for Tiger and Leopard!

I haven't tested it for Leopard yet, I'm doing so now. Can't see any reason it wouldn't work if Tiger does though...

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1036 on: January 27, 2020, 08:44:56 AM »
Quote
At the moment I'm using the Mini to create images of Tiger and Leopard (fully updated etc.) that can be restored through ASR. I have successfully booted off OS X Tiger restored this way. Has anyone tried this before? It seems like a good time-saver.

Cheers,
Ivan

Yes, that is interesting... with Mac OS X I have always used "Super Duper" , "Carbon Copy Cloner" or the "Disk Utility" itself to clone images,
but I think the ASR would be cool to mess with for 10.4 and 10.5 and make DVD master installers

Offline ivan_holmes

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1037 on: January 27, 2020, 03:11:08 PM »
Quote
Yes, that is interesting... with Mac OS X I have always used "Super Duper" , "Carbon Copy Cloner" or the "Disk Utility" itself to clone images,
but I think the ASR would be cool to mess with for 10.4 and 10.5 and make DVD master installers

I have similarly used CCC, SuperDuper and Disk Utility, all work well but my goal is to install Mac OS X quickly and easily on a Mac with 9 installed, and eliminate the tedious install and update process.

Unfortunately, the Leopard image is quite large (9.5 GB) and ASR refuses to store it as it's over 4 GB, I guess this is a limitation of ASR. At some point I may try splitting the image into three parts and restoring them in place over each other.

The Tiger image however is working well, I have restored it twice to different disks and all is good.
 

Offline gaiaweylyn

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1038 on: January 28, 2020, 06:45:41 PM »
Perhaps I'm just missing the blatantly obvious, but was the V9 release ever finished? I recently acquired a super nice Late 2005 / 1.5ghz mini, and would like to use it with this.

Posts above seem to suggest that it was, but the latest version linked in the download section is still V8. I don't want to start a fresh install using an older release of the project if there's a newer one available with additional fixes and optimizations.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1039 on: January 28, 2020, 11:46:40 PM »
no, not yet.

but somewhere here there is a furtherly modified ROM which enables the use of HDs without driver.

if you are okay with overwriting your disk (using it on the same disk as OSX isnt recommended anyway), use v8.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline gaiaweylyn

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1040 on: January 29, 2020, 09:29:40 AM »
I do have other machines that I can use to format the disk separately with the OS9 drivers, so that's not an issue. The small mouse and video fixes would be nice though!

Either way, noted. Will use V8 for now.

Offline Rainier

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1041 on: January 30, 2020, 07:24:55 AM »
Grateful for all the work done and offered here for non programmers like me.
I need Frame and hate it on Windows. Version 7 on Mac beats 17 on Windows. So I picked up a G4 Mini and the boot .iso for 9.2.2 v.8
All is well except...
Except for the mouse freezing seven, eight times a day. Sometimes on startup, more usually after sitting unused for ten or twelve minutes. Sometimes it locks up while in use.
I’ve read here that I’m not alone. Other’s frequency seems less.
Has anyone found a way to keep their mouse warm instead of frozen?
Again: thanks for the labor of love from many of you.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1042 on: January 30, 2020, 08:45:16 AM »
it is interesting that it happens for some people more often than for others. but i guess you actually work a few hours per day with it?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1043 on: January 30, 2020, 09:11:10 AM »
Quote
Except for the mouse freezing seven, eight times a day. Sometimes on startup, more usually after sitting unused for ten or twelve minutes. Sometimes it locks up while in use.
I’ve read here that I’m not alone. Other’s frequency seems less.

Without rebooting, I plugged in a "Genuine" apple white single button mouse and it "unfroze" and then I plugged in the 3rd party and it was working again (all without a reboot); so... one choice is to get an original "single" button apple, Because IMO it is immune to "freezing" and somehow "resets" the problem

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1044 on: January 30, 2020, 09:39:02 AM »
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Rainier

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1045 on: January 30, 2020, 06:03:00 PM »
Yeah, I do editing and doc layout, book prep stuff etc as a side job. InDesign is great in OS X, but there are things FrameMaker does effortlessly that InD requires way too much work.
So the little, old, G4 Mini is getting used most days and except for the mouse, has worked a treat.
I’m now thinking of an OS 9 12” g4 laptop for out of office work, leaving the iPad at home.

Offline txviking

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1046 on: February 27, 2020, 02:50:47 PM »
I had a G4 Mac mini years ago, but it was stolen out of my now ex-wife's house. Picked another up on eBay this week for $25 that I'm playing around with.

Going to give v8 a try as soon as I dig far enough back in the thread to figure out where it was linked from.

Offline mrhappy

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1047 on: February 28, 2020, 08:17:50 AM »

Going to give v8 a try as soon as I dig far enough back in the thread to figure out where it was linked from.

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4365.0.html

Offline drzeissler

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1048 on: March 03, 2020, 11:29:42 AM »
v8 seems to have an upgraded ati-driver. it's working great, but no chance of getting vsync to work?
if I had to choose, I would always use vsync in order to get rid of the screen tearing.


...I think vsync control was never possible on os9...perhaps some games-engines hopefully support it.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 01:50:21 PM by drzeissler »

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1049 on: March 04, 2020, 06:28:14 PM »
Firstly I would like to say thank you to everyone who has contributed to making Mac OS 9 possible on the Mac Mini G4. I truly appreciated your hard efforts and will indeed donate some money to the cause.

I've recently procured two Mac Mini G4 units (1.5ghz flavour) and have been testing out v8. It was super easy to get it up and running and in no time was I enjoying a nostalgia trip.

I appear to be hitting the Out of Range monitor issue when running @ 1080p on a non-Apple monitor. I'm keen to try and rectify this using the updated ROM by ELN + the unhacked drivers. I understand v9 is in the works but if I was to try and replicate the best known install right now can I do it with the following sequence?

1. Perform clean restore of v8.
2. Copy ELN's ROM into System Folder.
3. Delete all ATI* extensions from System Folder\Extensions.
4. Install ATI January 2005 drivers. (Do I require the July 2005 patch?)

I thought defining the steps explicitly would help me - I apologies if this has been explained before just in a different way.

Any guidance would be much appreciated. Cheers again everyone!