Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 126611 times)

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #975 on: August 31, 2019, 06:12:53 AM »
We ran into the mouse stuck on the Apple logo, but it did register clicks, on the emulated Rage 128 Pro in Qemu, after we got the 'NDRV' working for the  Mac OS.

Zoltan made a patch, and that fixed the issue with OS 9, but broke OS X booting with the 'NDRV'.

As I took the 'NDRV' we use from 10.3.7, I wouldn't rule out the 'NDRV' as the root of the mouse freeze issue.......

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #976 on: August 31, 2019, 06:27:55 AM »
It's NOT the mini, first time is a charm with file sharing, I have seen it take 2 hours :(

https://happymacs.wordpress.com/2013/07/09/will-file-sharing-ever-start/

Oh, that's great to know. "2 hours", huh? I'm not sure if I waited that long. I'll leave the mini on doing that for 24 hours now. Hopefully it will start up by then.

On another note:

This was the command I needed to run to "bless" the OS 9 system folder, from within OS X:

Code: [Select]
sudo bless -folder9 "/Volumes/MacHD/System Folder" -use9 -bootBlockFile "/usr/share/misc/bootblockdata"
At this point, I could boot successfully into OS 9.

This didn't work for me, no matter what I try. The mini would always boot back to OS X.

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #977 on: August 31, 2019, 07:59:06 AM »
It took forever, but now File Sharing is really on! Thanks, DieHard! :D

Offline macarone

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #978 on: August 31, 2019, 10:18:57 AM »
> This didn't work for me, no matter what I try. The mini would always boot back to OS X

When all other methods (for eg. putting Finder on the Desktop, and then dropping it on System Folder) did not work, I found that running DiskWarrior on the OS 9 partition while booted into OS X, DID produce a blessed OS 9 System Folder.

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #979 on: August 31, 2019, 12:20:40 PM »
> This didn't work for me, no matter what I try. The mini would always boot back to OS X

When all other methods (for eg. putting Finder on the Desktop, and then dropping it on System Folder) did not work, I found that running DiskWarrior on the OS 9 partition while booted into OS X, DID produce a blessed OS 9 System Folder.
... Wait, my bad, I just realized I made a mistake. Somehow I was thinking this command would select my OS 9 partition as the Startup Disk (by blessing it), but that's a separate issue, and somehow I mixed the 2 things together in my head. lol

In that case, nevermind that statement I made.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #980 on: August 31, 2019, 12:33:27 PM »
This didn't work for me, no matter what I try. The mini would always boot back to OS X.

(if i am not lost this time) this is a known issue of the mini OS.

so either you have to use two disks when you want to boot both OSes, or you have to use the bootmanager.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #981 on: August 31, 2019, 03:57:41 PM »
I think that if you can get Mac OS 9 booting by default, then you can hold “X” at boot to switch OS temporarily.

Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #982 on: September 01, 2019, 07:09:52 PM »
We ran into the mouse stuck on the Apple logo, but it did register clicks, on the emulated Rage 128 Pro in Qemu, after we got the 'NDRV' working for the  Mac OS.

Zoltan made a patch, and that fixed the issue with OS 9, but broke OS X booting with the 'NDRV'.

As I took the 'NDRV' we use from 10.3.7, I wouldn't rule out the 'NDRV' as the root of the mouse freeze issue.......

Fascinating! It looks like you’ve cracked it. Mind forwarding me the details?

Offline SKYLANE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #983 on: September 15, 2019, 11:55:03 PM »
I have a Wallstreet PDQ with OS 9.2.2 on it.  I have several files on it that I would like to print and manage a bit, perhaps play with some old programs while I am at it.  I wished I could run OS9 from a faster platform and larger screen.  When I stumbled onto this site after watching the YouTube installation, I had found the perfect use for my trusty ol' MacMini 1.5 GHz G4, this is the one with all the silent upgrades.  I blew the dust off of is and downloaded the Bootable ISO v8 and followed the instructions to install on my MacMini with success!  I performed the installation around the end of 2018 (I think), I had to put playing around with it down until a later date which is now SEP 2019.

Last night, I had both my MacMini and Wallstreet PDQ on my current existing home network via ethernet.  Started File Sharing after setting it up, and with great success was able to move my files and apps from the Wallstreet PDQ over to the MacMini.  Everything seems to be running OK except MacDraw II 1.1, runs ok on my Wallstreet PDQ but looks weird when launched on MacMini.  I would love to figure out this issue as this was one of the main programs that I like to play with.

My files for Word, Excel, PowerPoint 2001 seem to all work fine.

I was never able to get the resolution to setup right with my 1920x1080 Samsung Monitor/TV.  Once I set the Samsung to 4:3 resolution and set up a corresponding resolution (4:3) in monitors, the OS 9 desktop looks terrific.

Offline SKYLANE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #984 on: September 16, 2019, 09:00:51 PM »
Regarding my post above, why would MacDraw II (1.1) work on the Wallstreet PDQ but not on the Mac Mini G4?  Does any one have MacDraw working on their Mac 9.2.2 in an unsupported machine?  If so, what version?

I do have MacDraw Pro that works, but I can open the older MacDraw files with it.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #985 on: September 20, 2019, 12:28:32 PM »
i dont know macdraw, but you might have forgotten to move required drivers, libraries, or simply its preference file from the systemfolder.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #986 on: September 29, 2019, 05:55:20 PM »
@SKYLANE
I got acquainted with MacDraw and its entire history just for the sake of seeing how well it fares with 9.2.2 on the Mac mini G4 1.5GHz. Results:

Everything works perfectly with MacDraw II 1.1v2 on Mac OS 9.2.2 on the Mac mini G4 1.5GHz. But under one condition: color depth needs to be anything other than set to Millions of Colors, else it looks funky, and/or the program destabilizes. Using Thousands of Colors or 256 Colors for color depth resulted in the program being 100% functional.
The issue with Millions of Colors quite possibly would also be there on the Wallstreet G3 (wish mine still worked to actually test it out). Can you check if it actually handles MacDraw II properly on your WallStreet with Millions of Colors for color depth selected?
In any case, looks like it works just fine! Just need to use the proper color depth.

Regardless, I thought the latest version of MacDraw (ClarisDraw 1.0v4) could handle all MacDraw files of any previous version perfectly? Apparently MacDraw II is from 1989, while ClarisDraw is from 1994. Can't it handle your needs? (Note: MacDraw Pro is stuck between those two versions in the timeline. So if that can't do something, perhaps ClarisDraw can?)

If desired, the latest version can be found here.

Hope any of this helps.

Offline ELN

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Frozen mouse fixed on Mac mini
« Reply #987 on: October 09, 2019, 08:38:28 PM »
I have fixed the frozen mouse bug!

It was, as darthnVader hinted earlier, caused by the ATI extensions. So I took a deep dive into the ATI driver architecture. This is the typical "life cycle" of an ATI card in a NewWorld Mac:
  • If the card firmware lacks an ndrv (e.g. the Radeon 9200 in the mini), the MacOS uses its generic "COFB" ndrv to get basic video.
  • Extensions are loaded from disk. The ATI ROM Xtender or iMic's hacked "ATI Via Driver" extension can replace the previously loaded ndrv. No graphical acceleration yet.
  • The complex array of ATI extensions steps in, asks the loaded ndrv about the card using some private Status calls, and loads some acceleration code if the card is recognised. Accelerated 2D requires "ATI Resource Manager" and "ATI Graphics Accelerator" at minimum.

This was darthnVader's solution to get graphics acceleration working:
  • Insert a Mac OS X ndrv into iMic "ATI Via Driver" (better called "ATI RockHopper2 Driver" after the change).
  • Replace all or most occurrences of the 5961 device ID in the other extensions with 5962. Both IDs refer to the Radeon 9200, but the extensions only knew about the 5961 ID. (Occurrences of 5960 were also replaced -- see below.)

DarthnVader effectively turned our minis into Mac OS 9 gaming rigs! Unfortunately, one of the binary patches intermittently broke hardware cursor support. It might be due to the way that the PowerPC compiler optimised select/case blocks. Sometimes I also experienced a black screen when the ATI extensions loaded, which I think was related.

This is my solution:
  • Insert the same Mac OS X ndrv (ATY,RockHopper2 v1.0.1f63, from Mac OS X 10.3.6) into the Mac OS ROM as an ndrv parcel, to mimic a firmware driver.
  • Patch that ndrv to replace 5962 with 5961 whenever it reads from PCI Configuration Space.
  • Use the unmodified ATI extensions from January 2005.
    • The extensions that we host in "9200os9.sit", supposedly from the rare July 2005 release, do not work.
    • I think that they were binary-patched to enable support for the DVI-I Radeon 9200 card, ID 5960. Specifically, the accl 4 resource of the "ATI Graphics Accelerator" is an identical build to January 2005, including the build date, but has 2/2 occurrences of 5961 replaced with 5960. It would be good to find the originals.

So here is my first ROM release of the year. It was derived from the "OS9General" Mac OS ROM (v9.6.1) using my portable Mac mini patching system: https://github.com/elliotnunn/tbxi-patches/blob/7a5d179/macmini.py

My ATALoad patch has also been applied, to allow Mac OS 9 to boot from volumes that were formatted for Mac OS X, without first wiping the disk with "Mac OS 9 Drivers". I think that this is especially useful on machines that were formerly Mac OS X-only.

I recommend that this ROM be included in a new release of the Mac mini ISO. It should be combined with the unmodified ATI extensions from January 2005.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #988 on: October 09, 2019, 08:51:51 PM »
we really need to have "like" buttons here.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #989 on: October 10, 2019, 08:27:03 AM »
Quote
I recommend that this ROM be included in a new release of the Mac mini ISO. It should be combined with the unmodified ATI extensions from January 2005.

ELN, your post was like a tall glass of fresh spring water after a long drought; we have been quiet here, but that is to be expected with some topics and downloads at over 100K 200K views we may have tapped out all the interested users, which is amazing in itself.  The details were fascinating and I appreciate all the time it took to created the new ROM and explain the process.

My personal mini has been in a storage unit for 6 months,  After closing my retail computer store, having surgery, and re-opening a new office for computer consulting, I am  finally back in the mode and getting back to macs and music.  I will breakout the mini and try the new ROM this week.  I am hoping that Ross reads all of this and has the time and energy to create a v9 mini Install and I will post it.