Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)

[tubaman500]

At least it is a new and interesting unsolved problem rather than an old and boring unsolved problem

Ha ha - that's true!

What OS 9 mini (hack) version number are your using?

And OS 10.4 was already on the mini’s HD along with Classic OS 9 / emulation?

Or did you two-partition the HD (one partition for OS 10.4 and one for OS 9.2.2)?

I'm using version 8 of the OS 9 install iso.

The built-in hard drive is not partitioned and only has OS 10.4 on it; I installed it from a retail OS 10.4 install disk (not the one that I understand comes with a new mini).  I bought the mini used with an erased hard drive.  The OS 9.2.2 is on a separate external FW drive I had from an old, long gone computer. So when I go into Classic mode on the mini, it pulls the OS 9 stuff from the external HD.

[FdB]

So, you’ve actually burned a CD of the Version 8 mini installer?
If so, can you boot the mini from that CD in the mini?

You have a retail OS 10.4 install disk so I suggest that you boot from the Version 8 installer CD, format and two-partition the mini’s internal HD with the V.8 CD… and then install V.8 / 9.2.2. Afterwards you can re-install 10.4 - back, onto the second partition. Then see if the weirdo stuff returns after the V.8 install… AND the re-install of your version of 10.4.

C-boot, option-boot or maybe even an open-firmware-boot might be used to boot from that V.8 installer CD.  You need two separate partitions because V.8 and 10.4 can’t occupy the same drive - unless they’re on separate partitions. [Have you tried option-booting from the Firewire drive (with the iso.) to install V.8 on the mini’s HD?]

The crucial point here is whether or not you can actually boot from that V.8 CD AND install OS 9.2.2 first on the mini’s internal HD. (Or install from the FW drive iso.) Think your mini is truly conflicted - having 10.4 and Klassic already present on a single-partitioned HD.

[IIO]

It is connected to a Dell 24-inch monitor (vintage 2007) with a native resolution of 1900 x 1200 via a DVI cable.

perfect setup for this machine. unlike the core2duos, it would even work fine via VGA at that resolution.

In both cases, all of the expected things on the desktop seem to have shown up to begin the install, but all the text was garbled, mostly unreadable.

yippieh, we found a new problem, our reason for existence is secured for the next few days.

[tubaman500]

FdB, thanks for the ideas, but I think you might be misunderstanding one detail:  The garbled text and images I posted (in Post Reply 915) occur DURING the INSTALLATION process, specifically, after I've booted from the Mac Mini OS 9 Install Disk (from the version 8 iso).  So I haven't yet partitioned my mini internal drive, or installed a bootable OS 9 on the drive.

In case it matters, I tried two installation disks: One, created using the Mac OS X "Burn to Disc" menu item, and the other using Toast 9 Titanium.

[FdB]

Yes, I misunderstood. Sorry.

You get the exact same garbled text and images attempting boot with both discs burned via both approaches? (OS X - B to D and Toast?) If true, ’tis indeed odd. Just out of curiosity and to possibly eliminate variables, boot with the OS 10.4 install disk and using that Disk Utility… wipe, format and partition the drive, checking “Install Mac OS 9 Disk Drivers” for both partitions & “Mac OS Extended”) then restart and try to boot & install from the V.8 CD again. If the problem(s) persist after that… PM me your address and I’ll mail you another V.8 Install CD to try.

Really grasping at straws now… all unnecessary items disconnected from the mini during these attempts? No off-brand keyboards, mice, FW or USB devices attached?

[IIO]

can yopu pls try the following: boot from the CD and the open the monitor controlpanel and change the resolution.

[tubaman500]

FdB, unfortunately, I don't have the original mini boot disk with both OS X and OS 9 install capabilities - I bought the mini used, and installed OS 10.4 using a retail OS 10.4 install disk.

IIO, I assume you wanted me to try changing the monitor resolution after I've booted from the OS 9 install CD created from the mini bootable iso (version eight) from this website. Is that correct?  If, so, that's a bit of a Catch 22: I can't see much of what I'm doing because of the main problem: garbled text and images.  But maybe I can clumsily navigate my way around based on positioning of menu items and windows.  The other problem is that the control panel items are not placed in the Apple Menu on this install CD, so how do I get access to the monitor control panel to change the resolution? (I haven't navigated OS 9 in ages).

[tubaman500]

I have some interesting things to report.  As I mentioned, I have a firewire drive, which is connected to my mini.  This drive is from an old computer I owned a long time ago that ran on OS 9, and the system files are still on it. 

On a whim, I decided to copy the modified Mac OS Rom file from the newly-created Installation CD from this site, to the System Folder on my non-booting OS 9 stuff on the firewire drive.  Now, after re-starting the mini and holding down the option key, the firewire drive showed up as a boot option.

When the boot process was complete, I got the same garbled text and images I was getting when I booted from the Install CD. As I clumsily navigated through the garbled mess, I was eventually able to find the Monitor control panel and change the resolution.  The highest resolutions that worked were the 1280x1024 (60Hz), and the 1024x768 (both 60 and 75 Hz). All of these created stretched images of course, because my Dell monitor has a native resolution of 1920x1200.  But the images were clear (without garbled text or graphics).

I must confess, I was hoping to be able to play an old Ambrosia Software game called Barrack (which doesn't work right in the Classic environment) but unfortunately, the balls in the game don't move correctly even in the OS 9 environment. Drat!

Maybe, installing OS 9 from this specially-created Install CD onto the internal mini drive will yield better results, but I have my doubts. It would be nice if the resolution problem could be resolved somehow.  Just to be clear, the monitor displays perfectly in OS 10.4 as well as in the Classic OS 9 emulation environment.

[devils_advisor]

Why not stick with 1024x768 60hz and be done with it. That's a normal resolution for that time and if it shows a clear screen use it. You won't be able to enjoy many games in extreme high resolutions in os9.

[tubaman500]

Why not stick with 1024x768 60hz and be done with it. That's a normal resolution for that time and if it shows a clear screen use it. You won't be able to enjoy many games in extreme high resolutions in os9.

devils_advisor, you make some good points.  The main reason I bought this used mini a month ago, was so that I could open Finale music notation files circa 2002 in my professional work without having them be altered by contemporary operating systems or modern versions of Finale.  Truth is, Finale 2002 works beautifully in the Classic OS 9 emulation mode without a hitch, and in the native resolution of 1920x1200, which is important because of the detailed graphic work I do in that app.

As far as getting that resolution in the bootable "real" version of OS 9 to work, that's just so I can have more FUN and play some cool OS 9 games.  I should point out, that around 2001, I was working in OS 9 with a resolution of 1600x1200 using a 20-inch Dell monitor, which is sort of the 4:3 equivalent resolution to the 1920x1200 widescreen ratio for a 24-inch monitor. With that resolution, Barrack worked smoothly back then.

If it doesn't or can't get solved, I won't loose any sleep, because I can still do my pro work in Classic emulation, but it sure would be fun!  And I have to say, I'm totally blown away by the geniuses on this site that came up with a bootable OS 9 for this hardware.  Why not go for the gold?

[devils_advisor]

Is your current monitor DVI-i or d ? Are you using a vga adapter?

[IIO]

I must confess, I was hoping to be able to play an old Ambrosia Software game called Barrack (which doesn't work right in the Classic environment) but unfortunately, the balls in the game don't move correctly even in the OS 9 environment. Drat!

refresh the graphics cards firmware?

(but do not attempt to upodate the GPU drivers; the drivers belong to the things which have been modified for the mini OS)

[tubaman500]

Is your current monitor DVI-i or d ? Are you using a vga adapter?

I'm using a DVI to DVI cable - no adapter.  I'll have to investigate whether this is DVI-i or -d.

refresh the graphics cards firmware?

(but do not attempt to upodate the GPU drivers; the drivers belong to the things which have been modified for the mini OS)

I'll try this tomorrow...
Thanks

[Ninester]

I'm using an old DVI-D 1024x768 monitor for a few games that use vector graphics, Quake, to help keep from melting my Mini OC.  I ordered an $8 DVI-D-VGA adapter to use with a very low time 17" Trinitron.  I wanted to run lower rez screens for bit-mapped games without the ugly upscaled mess. Unfortunately, this adapter only allows 60hz.  Adapter should arrive Thursday.  BTW, the USB-DAC works great for in game audio.

[tubaman500]

refresh the graphics cards firmware?

How do you do this in OS 9?  (The info on the AMD website seems to refer to OS X software for the Radeon 9200 card.)

Thanks!

[Jubadub]

@tubaman500, I had the exact same issue you are having back when I first set up my Mac mini. The issue was the monitor on an OS 9 setup. Any OS 9 setup. Like you, I was, at first, using a DVI cable to connect to my monitor's HDMI port with a DVI adapter, which is analogous to your situation (usage of digital signals in both cases).

The solution was to use the VGA port of my monitor instead, and not the HDMI (DVI in your case) one. This means I had to use a DVI-to-VGA adapter on the mini's end, and a VGA cable. The problem disappeared. (Although I was left with a side-effect of the screen not being properly centered, but that's another matter.)

Despite this solution, I eventually switched to a CRT 4:3 monitor anyway, though, because proper gaming cannot be achieved otherwise! Any 4:3 monitor will work best, but CRTs are preferred because of their "truer colors", higher refresh rate and lack of input delay.

Hope this helps!

[tubaman500]

Thanks, Jubadub. That's good to know. I'll get ahold of a DVI-to-VGA adapter and a VGA cable and give it a try.

[IIO]

How do you do this in OS 9?

i have no idea. just do it in OSX.

(and yes, try a VGA connection first)

[tubaman500]

Received my DVI to VGA adapter today. I attached the adapter to the mini and a VGA cable to the monitor.  Now I'm able to set the resolution to 1600x1024 at 76Hz (which wasn't possible with the DVI cable).  It looks very good.  Thanks everyone for your help and ideas!

Unfortunately, I'm still not able to play Barrack (even when I set the monitor to low resolutions like 800x600). The controls and most of the things in the game operate and move around correctly, but the bouncing balls hardly move at all.  I'm curious if anyone has gotten Barrack to work on their mini, and if so, what type of cable, resolution, and monitor are you using? (If anyone doesn't have it, but is willing to try, I can send you the freeware/shareware game app.)

[tubaman500]

For the three people on the planet that are interested, I got the game Barrack working smoothly in OS 9 on the mini.  The solution is using Barrack version 1.0.4 (instead of version 1.0.3).  Man, I love the internet for the wealth of information and resources!