Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)

[Jubadub]

For audio, look no further than this post. Bought 3 of these (more for future minis or other computers), all real cheap, and they work perfectly.

I think the mini is worth the effort (whether it takes months or years of effort), but that solely depends on each individual. As discussed elsewhere, I'd figure porting GNU/Linux, BSD or MorphOS (if the relevant bits were made available) drivers might be a way of doing it? But maybe tying all of it in with the rest of the Mac OS might be an obstacle? No idea.
There is Mac OS X's / Darwin's source code available too, but people have looked into that to understand the job better, and it didn't seem it helped much, but I don't remember anymore.

I, too, would say it's best not to expect it to happen (unless someone steps in to help ELN and the other OS 9 hackers out). But you can fully enjoy audio from the mini as it is today, as I have been. Playing music, or games like Escape Velocity, Diablo and Realmz, at full blast, both in terms of volume and overall system speed.

The mini is delicious. This hack is a blessing. Will definitely get more minis in the foreseenable future.

As for a CD changelog, yes, there is one: when you boot into OS 9 with it and then use the Apple Restore Software, before restoring, you can see a literal changelog in the top-right corner of the window.

What do you use?
I will use tripple-boot: 10.4.11 / 9.2.2 / Morphos

Mainly 9.2.2, the ultimate OS.

Currently, I'm dealing with an issue with my 512GB SSD drive (big post on that coming later), but while I was using a 40GB HDD, I had 9.2.2 and 10.4.11 (client, not any of the 2 server versions). Right before I decided to use my SSD, though, I also tried installling both MorphOS 3.11 and Ubuntu Desktop 9.04, as well as some BSD variant, trying to see how I could accomplish the task of keeping them ALL installed in harmony and remaining bootable (while also being cautious of file-system-related issues we want to avoid, like the "Invalid Btree Header, 0, 0" error, but stopped after my 40GB HDD started presenting hardware problems (as expected of a refurbished, cheap HDD).

I will tell you one thing, though: from as far as I have gotten, it seemed to me that, perhaps, MorphOS partitions may render all of the partitions of the same drive unrecognizable in OS 9. Don't quote me on that just yet, however, as I still plan to make it all work out. But I thought I'd let you know, so you'd be careful about expectations, since it doesn't seem like you installed OS 9 and MorphOS together yet.

This is not an issue, however, if you install OS 9 on an external drive (USB or FireWire, presumably if its capacity is 128GB or lower), naturally. Not sure if MorphOS can be installed on USB drives (I think it can't, right?), but on FireWire it certainly can't, as that system lacks FireWire drivers (even though it's a feature repeatedly requested since 2011, if not even earlier).

[drzeissler]

Thx, but it's not about getting no audio, it's about controlling the volume on my lacie usb-speakers.
I do not get OS9 or either MorphOS installed on a USB-Device, neither one will boot from USB-Stick.
So I am currently using Tiger again, but I will make a new run on getting a tripple-boot working.
(I use v6 of the OS9 Cd on my G4-1,5 64MBVram Mini)

[DieHard]

I noticed something kinda big/important: Drive Setup 1.9.2 only sees 128GB of my SSD, while Drive Setup 2.1 sees the whole 512GB. Can anyone else try seeing if this is also true on non-mini Macs, as well, for internal PATA / IDE drives that exceed 128GB?

Yes that is well documented on the forum and the website

From Macos9lives.com

...Apple Drive Setup V2.1 that will be needed to format and partition drives greater than 128GB. We also recommend that you keep your partitions to sizes of 190GB or less or OS 9 will not boot and Norton Speed Disk V6.03 will not be able to defrag it. To clarify, if you are putting a 500GB in you Mac, simply break it into 3 partitions of 120GB for the OS, 190GB, and 190GB (format all volumes Mac OS Extended).

Also, as Mactron noted... Drive Setup 2.1 removed the ability to multi-partition FW external drives... so simply use the older Drive setup 1.9.2 with 9.2.2 when needed that feature for FW drives...

Lastly, I don't know why you went the "Super Talent" route which looks expensive when we have many users that documented cheaper routes that work 100%

[Jubadub]

Lastly, I don't know why you went the "Super Talent" route which looks expensive when we have many users that documented cheaper routes that work 100%

It was December 2017 (!) when I ordered it (it took many months to arrive, and when it did, I was minding other things entirely). Back then, I was completely unaware of mSATA technology, let alone how much better and cheaper it is compared to SSDs, and that mSATA-to-IDE adapters were both a thing and very accessible. It blew my mind when I found out about that route! Would have been definitely a lot better in every regard I can think of. But now I have this drive on my hands... so I'd better make good use of it.

And ah, yes, now I remember I had read that long ago on the website, and then 100% forgot about it, only to rediscover that later. It's just that rereading this thread recently and seeing how much smack 2.1 got for lacking FireWire support (the drive size bit wasn't at all brought up, IIRC), it made me think the information was new. But of course, I should have known better.

Thx, but it's not about getting no audio, it's about controlling the volume on my lacie usb-speakers.
I do not get OS9 or either MorphOS installed on a USB-Device, neither one will boot from USB-Stick.
So I am currently using Tiger again, but I will make a new run on getting a tripple-boot working.
(I use v6 of the OS9 Cd on my G4-1,5 64MBVram Mini)

Ah, I see. In that case, yeah, other than getting different speakers that adjust volume just fine with the mini, then indeed having the sound issue patched would be the only way.

You can boot OS 9 on the mini with a USB stick just fine, though. The easiest & simplest way is to first boot OS 9 via any means (i.e. v8 CD), then run Startup Disk, and select the USB device. It will boot from it every time sucessfully.
I hear Open Firmware is also an option, but never tried it myself.
And there's also one other way of doing it, but it's quite underhanded: try booting OS 9 from a device that has it installed, but can't boot OS 9 from it, so that it shows the "question mark on floppy" icon. If OS 9 is not to be found anywhere else, but on a USB device, it will find it and boot from it successfully.

If you format your USB device with HFS+ with Tiger/Leopard (and select to install OS 9 drivers), you can then boot into OS 9 via the v8 disc and use it to install OS 9 on it. Just ignore Drive Setup.

[drzeissler]

THX, I'll try this. I think I did already generate hfs+ on USB stick and ignored drive-setup.
My v6 CD installs on that stick, but I do not get it available during boot (pressing alt key).

I can make a dual-boot between OSX and OS9, but Morphos installer sees something like this,
and this does not work for a Morphos Install.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/94839221@N05/albums/72157666841174377

Here is the "dualboot-guide" for morphos https://dreamolers.binaryriot.org/dualboot.pdf

[Jubadub]

Yeah, "alt-boot" doesn't work for USB (unless you use the last boot trick I mentioned).

I was using that guide, too. It's the reason I used specifically version 9.04 of Ubuntu Desktop, to play around with things.
It's a pity if MorphOS indeed can't be installed with 9. If it truly doesn't work, perhaps that could be reported to the MorphOS team, although I wouldn't expect anything out of it, considering even getting FireWire to work wasn't enough incentive for them.

By the way, that's the 1.42 GHz 32 VRAM mini, as opposed to the 1.5 GHz 64 VRAM one, according to that OS 9 screenshot.

[drzeissler]

I have several Minis. Currently I downgraded to 1,25Ghz because it is much more silent, then 1,42 and 1,5 especial.

[drzeissler]

I have partioned with Tiger and now I'll install OS9 first. Then Tiger and then Morphos.
There must be a way to get all of them installed on the local harddisk and choose from "alt-boot".
Argh, I forgot, I have to use OS9 for partitioning in order to get OS9 installed....OK, 4 Partitions, on first OS9.
OS9 makes some strange thing to the partition table. DH1 is not the problem, but DH0 (64MB) exist two times and can not be changed.

I nearly got it, but....

I started with OS9 and partitioned:
10GB OS9
20GB OSX
64MB DH0: BOOT (Morphos)
10GB DH1: DATA (Morphos)

1. I installed OS9 and it worked
2. I Installed OSX Tiger and it worked
(now I could choose either OS9 or OSX and use the OS9 Partition from Tiger for classic if I would like to, but I don't.
3. I installed Morphos. And there was this strange thing with the 64MB Boot-Partition, but I got over it. Changing nothing, forward and then backwards in the iwizard and it installs without any issue.

BUT after that I see all three OSes when pressing and holding alt-key, booting is only from Tiger and Morphos, OS9 does not boot anymore. Don't know why, because it was the first install and is far from what morphos does it's magic to the partition table. So it's as it is. Either OSX/OS9 or OSX/MORPHOS nothing more is possible.

[Jubadub]

I believe those "strange things" are driver partitions for OS 9. This old NetBSD guide contains a bunch of interesting information for this and other things.

If I learn of anything that can be of use to the OS 9 + MorphOS quest, I'll make sure to share it with everyone.

[drzeissler]

Partition table looks good to me.

7 = OS9
8 = OSX
9 = Boot Morphos
10 = Data Morphos

[Jubadub]

So, I technically finally managed to boot OS 9 on the mini from my 512 GB drive! The solution is not ideal: it is underhanded, roundabout and weird, but it works. No OF. (I couldn't boot into it from OF, but all I tried was

Code: [Select]

0 > boot hd:,\\:tbxi to boot from the disk, meaning without specifying the partition. Not sure how to specify one, but I know it's possible, sticking the partition number somewhere, somehow.)

Throughout the whole post, I assume the boot issue I have both with the IDE device and the external FireWire drive is that their capacity is past 128 GB, regardless of how you partition them, and that the same issue would be present with USB devices past that capacity, as well.
I'll refer to the >128GB devices as "Big Drives" and to the <=128GB devices as "Small Drives".

What you need is:
- An internal, Big Drive you want to boot from;
- An external, USB/FW Big Drive to help you boot into the internal Big Drive (tested with a 1TB external LaCie FW HDD drive);
- An external, USB/FW Small Drive to help you boot into the external Big Drive (tested with USB, connected to a 40GB HDD with an IDE-to-USB Sabrent device).

The solution to boot from an internal Big Drive was simple: fail to boot OS 9 from another, external big drive that contains a valid OS 9 installation with the modified Mac mini ROM, and that your only other available drive containing an OS 9 installation is your internal Big Drive. It will boot every time, after the "blinking question mark on diskette" icon flashes the question mark around 10 or so times.

There's an exception to this, however: you cannot "alt-boot" into the external big drive. It has to be the default drive when powering on, or when restarting. You accomplish this by selecting it on Startup Disk. Just once is enough: if you don't switch away from OS 9, you don't need to touch Startup Disk ever again. Else you repeat the exploit to switch back to OS 9 as default.

There's also another tidbit: it's preferable to boot from USB/FW than CD, because, speed aside, when you reboot after selecting your external Big Drive, you have to remove the CD beforehand, and you can't do this if you are booted from it. Removing it right before rebooting makes the exploit not work, and keeping the CD boots into the CD. If you remove it that way, you have to forcibly shut down the mini and restart (then the exploit works, because the external Big Drive is still pre-selected).

If your external Big Drive is FW like mine and not USB, you have to unplug and plug back the FireWire cable onto the drive (or reconnect power supply on the mini) so that the FireWire device activates and can be mounted again (booting into OS X also reactives it, IIRC, but that takes longer). Turning the mini off and on is not enough. You can replug when the mini is off or on, eitherway works. But it has to be done.

If your Small Drive is FireWire, you can alt-boot into it, to then select an external Big Drive to boot from with Startup Disk, for the exploit. Disconnect the FW Small Drive when screen goes black, else it may boot from it instead your internal Big Drive.

If your Small Drive is USB, and your external Big Drive is FW, you can alt-boot into your FW Big Drive, which will fail, but then it will boot from the USB device. Reconnect your FW Big Drive and reboot (no need for StartUp Disk). Disconnect the USB Small Drive after screen goes black, else it may boot from it instead your internal Big Drive.

If your Small Drive is USB and so is your Big Drive, then your only choice is to boot into the Small Drive from Open Firmware, or to boot from CD (slow, noisy, wears off laser lens, and a greater pain to use the exploit with).

That concludes the how-to. Now here's some explanation as to why this even works, and some weird things I noticed.

When OS 9 fails to boot from a partition with a valid Mac mini OS 9 installation, it already loaded parts of the modified ROM (perhaps even whole), and perhaps also a few other components, into the RAM. Booting fails mid-way for whatever reason, and it starts searching for other devices in the device tree for one with a valid OS 9 installation to boot from (it's another matter whether all devices are listed or not in the device tree). With the internal drive having a Mac mini OS 9 installation and none other, it boots from there with absolutely zero problems.
The moment I had discovered the ROM, in part or total, is loaded from the first device and that it persists was when I had tried to stick an older modified ROM in the external FireWire device, while the internal SSD drive had the most current modified ROM. The older ROM still used the original Happy Mac logo, while the newest one uses a more colorful, modified one. When it booted from the internal SSD, it showed instead the original Happy Mac icon, which only existed in the FireWire drive (which is by that point unmounted and not even spinning anymore).
But it didn't stop there: the old ROM reported itself not a G4 Cube, but instead a QuickSilver 2002 Mac, and that is what it showed in the Apple System Profiler ("Power Mac G4" as opposed to "Power Mac G4 Cube").

It is mysterious to me why 2 drives that can't boot Mac OS 9 by themselves can boot OS 9 when they work together.

By the way, trying to use the same trick to get OS 9 to boot from my external FW Big Drive didn't work, but I'm not sure if my FW drive had been formatted with Drive Setup in OS 9 or Disk Utility in Tiger (if the latter, I certainly put OS 9 drivers in it, however).

Now, to conclude this whole essay, here are the bare minimum files I needed on my external Big Drive:
https://i.imgur.com/u21ijlm.png
Any file further removed, and the exploit won't work.

And to make booting from my USB Small Drive as quick as humanly possible, here's the bare minimum that is required to cover all situations:
https://i.imgur.com/F6lD6I2.png
Any file further removed, and there will be a problem.
- The useless folders will be recreated anyway, so might as well spare any recreation overhead. Same for the preferences files;
- AppleScript Extension is probably unneeded, but I left it there for future scripting to speed things up further;
- The absence of those specific ATI extensions will cause a system crash mid boot, but only when it boots after a previous, failed OS 9 boot from another device, which is what WILL happen when alt-booting into my FW drive;
- Need the 2 FireWire Extensions to reboot into my FW Big Drive for the exploit;
- Startup Disk won't start without the Text Encoding Converter extension;
- The extensions HID library and USB Device Extension are necessary to prevent error messages that slow you down from popping up after you boot.

I think I covered all that I know on this matter. In conclusion, even booting from USB 1.1 became crazy fast. For obvious reasons.

Edit: Typo fixes.

[IIO]

Also, as Mactron noted... Drive Setup 2.1 removed the ability to multi-partition FW external drives... so simply use the older Drive setup 1.9.2 with 9.2.2 when needed that feature for FW drives...

xternal firewrie drives can be attached to a mac other that mini and then you can partition it as you like in 10.4 (including os9 drivers).

but of course once you have already put a 500 gb ssd in a mini you dont want to go that route.

[Jubadub]

Yep, I ended up connecting the mini to my Quad G5 at some point to format the internal drive with OS 9 drivers. Then I saw earlier in this thread you can format with the OS 9 drivers without that trick, if you do it from the Terminal. From this post:

Code: [Select]

diskutil partitionDisk /dev/disk1 2 OS9Drivers HFS+ MacHD 4000M JHFS+ OSXHD R

[devils_advisor]

What file system are you running under morphos? Sfs has some limitations. Sfs got about the same start partition limits as os9. You might overwrite something once you install morphos after os9. Did you try it the other way around?

[drzeissler]

I have to start with OS9, since then it makes no difference if I install Morphos or MacOSX second.
Morphos iWizard Partition-Manager has issues with the small "Boot" Partition of Morphos.
 

[XR-Lane]

Hi guys, new member, first post. I joined up because I was looking for something cool to do with my Mac mini G4. I have been through most of the 12 pages in this thread and have done the easy install of V8 on to my mini. I can appreciate all the hard work everyone has put into this, it was a huge project. I am pretty new to Macs, all though I do have 2 (3,1) 8 core mac pros, the G4 mini and a PowerMac G4 MDD. I have just had bad luck trying to get any of the macs I bought to actually work, but I do have the 2 newly added Mac Pros working, 1 with El Capitan and windows 10 on the other.

Anyway to the reason I actually am posting in the thread here. I was wondering why the output on the headphone jack was fixed to such a low level? I did read another post about someone wanting the built in speaker to work, but I do agree that it was unnecessary to get the built in speaker funtioning when most people would attach a set of speakers. I use a mixer to pick up the analog signal and I have noticed I have to turn the level up full on the channel its connected to, to be able to hear anything. Having said that, with it turned up so high its so low you can barely hear it.

Is it a possibility to be able to unlock the volume slider so we can turn it up?

Again, I want to let you all know I do appreciate the work that has been done, and I don't want to come off as a jerk, asking for changes to be made. If its not possible, I will have to settle for what it is. Thanks again.

[Astroman]

You might need to read another 12 pages in another thread about the details of the soundmanager failure...
But there is no solution anyway, so save the effort and just install the M-Audio Transit software, regardless if you have that USB interface or not.
For obscure reason it's said to fix soundmanager (I didn't try because I bought a Transit for $20). The software is downloadable, free anspd installs in 10 minutes.

[XR-Lane]

You might need to read another 12 pages in another thread about the details of the soundmanager failure...
But there is no solution anyway, so save the effort and just install the M-Audio Transit software, regardless if you have that USB interface or not.
For obscure reason it's said to fix soundmanager (I didn't try because I bought a Transit for $20). The software is downloadable, free anspd installs in 10 minutes.

Ok Thanks for the info. Unsure what you mean by telling me to read another 12 pages though. I just meant that this thread I am commenting on is 12 pages long and that I think I am up to speed on this particular project. Well as much as I can be with my limited experience.

I would have expected that if this was a problem with no way of fixing it, there would have been a mention of it on the download page with all the other notes. Or if M-Audio fixes the issue, it could have been added to the V8? I made the assumption that the sound was intentionally limited by the guys that coded this version of the OS. I am happy to try M-Audio, will I find it in the download section of this forum?

Another problem I found with my mini is that if I let it sit until it wants to sleep, its gives me the message that it can't and the mouse is frozen. If I turn on the sleep replacement that was included with this version, then it won't wake from it sleeping. Not sure if thats something others are experiencing, but I thought I would let you know.

Cheers

[XR-Lane]

Hello again, Just wanted to report that I found M-Audio usb driver for the Transit. As far as I can tell, it has had no effect on sound manager. Thanks for the tip.

[drzeissler]

Hello again, Just wanted to report that I found M-Audio usb driver for the Transit. As far as I can tell, it has had no effect on sound manager. Thanks for the tip.

Don't understand that. You installed a M-Audio-USB-Driver but do not use the M-Audio-Device?