Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 60334 times)

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #750 on: August 20, 2018, 04:10:56 AM »
Needs some patience if applied the for 1st time for the plastic notches of the case are fairly stiff (it's a pure clamp construction).
Get a very thin, but slightly rounded spatula and start inserting on one side for a quarter inch or so. Then gently lever so the inside comes up a bit over edge. Do the same on the other sides and go round in a few sequences, lifting it more and more.
That's the basic idea, but check ifixit for details with the screws and some cables. It's not difficult, but a bit messy.

Btw my results are similiar to yours, and some even bizarre.
I don't have a matching external audio interface and onboard sound is either off or full on.
Initially it crashed right about on SonicWorx, then (after connecting the acryl speakers from a Cube) it played with crackles, next step was Koblo (that worked nicely) and eventually it's usable. Iirc Koblo's gain (running in background) could be abused to control general sound level, as the regular panel is disfunctional.

At least the Mini seems to have kind of settled regarding sound, but it's not 100% reliable.
Sitting on top of it's modern OSX bro is picking up a tremendous amount of noise from the OSX box, if that is active - probably because gain of the virtually non-existent input channel is full up. I expect an external interface to improve things much.

Strength and Honour to the fellows who made this possible at all and my deepest respect 8)

ps: running it with an Eizo 1920x1200 - occasional screen 'going blacks' on the DVI input, but it comes back immediately. Seems to be the common ATI experience. This screen doesn't work with DVI from my G3 B/W at all (using a VGA to DVI cable solved that issue).


Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #751 on: August 20, 2018, 08:34:12 AM »
Quote
Btw my results are similiar to yours, and some even bizarre.
I don't have a matching external audio interface and onboard sound is either off or full on.
Initially it crashed right about on SonicWorx, then (after connecting the acryl speakers from a Cube) it played with crackles, next step was Koblo (that worked nicely) and eventually it's usable. Iirc Koblo's gain (running in background) could be abused to control general sound level, as the regular panel is disfunctional.

Yes, as documented, the stock sound under the mini is useless, you need a USB or FW interface that has the ability to route "System Sound" and all is well

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #752 on: August 20, 2018, 09:09:54 AM »
in fact the non-functional sound was what kept me away from this experiment for a long time.
But with the new CD it seemed such a quicky that I took the plunge.
Peak with the 'Internal' sound setting worked quite well, though, but after messing with Asio/Soundmanager a certain part of my testfile developed a very specific artefact that wasn't there before and remained at the very same location. Let's see what's there after reboot...

Until I get an interface I'm quite happy that I can at least preview some soundmangling with SonicWorx (which I like for it's gritty output and surprises).
Peak 3.2 is a bit more fluid than the 2.5 TDM on my G3 B/W and that basically covers what's needed to process and cut sound snippets.
(in particular the USB Overdrive mapping of mousewheel to zoom, wheel click to 'set region as loop' and right button 'play-stop' make it super fast and easy)

Offline FdB

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #753 on: August 20, 2018, 11:03:51 AM »
Just as soon as I get my tiny head out of “reel-to-reel world”
(TEAC models: A-1500-W, A-6010 und X-2000R)...
I long to return to the thrilling Mac mini sound exploits,
as I’ve now quite a few possibly suitable interfaces.

Analog to digital… ain’t I got fun?

TEAC-parts and NAB adapter PMs welcome.

I know, I know… tapeheads.net  ;)
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Offline brirec

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #754 on: August 20, 2018, 11:09:09 AM »
I have a rather odd problem occurring: I bought an mSATA to 44pin IDE adapter on Amazon and an mSATA SSD, and if I plug it in I have no optical drive — the Mini just does not see an optical drive at all. I tried borrowing another optical drive from a PBG4, and it didn’t make a difference, and I tried two other mSATA to 44pin IDE adapters (including the one that works just fine in the PBG4)

Anyone else have this problem? Is it the adapter? Any suggestions?

Right now I’m using a G4 MDD in Target Disk Mode with an mSATA SSD as an installation target, then swapping the SSD over to the Mini, but to say this isn’t ideal is a bit of an understatement…

Also, I thought someone said the onboard sound works with the headphone output? I’m not getting any onboard sound at all. I ordered a new-old-stock Griffin iMic that I’m sure will do just fine, but I really hoped to have this working :(

Lastly, if I install both Mac OS 9 and Tiger is there a way to set Mac OS 9 as default? Or will I have to option-boot it every time?

Offline FdB

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #755 on: August 20, 2018, 11:39:13 AM »
Which adapter did you get? Are there jumper settings on it for slave, master, CS, etcetera?
Might need to look more closely at the installation instructions for the adapter... and
configure jumper settings accordingly.
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Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #756 on: August 20, 2018, 03:48:41 PM »
... Also, I thought someone said the onboard sound works with the headphone output? I’m not getting any onboard sound at all. I ordered a new-old-stock Griffin iMic that I’m sure will do just fine, but I really hoped to have this working :(
yes, that was me, 2 posts above yours - sending the headphone out into a preamp because it's uncontrollable and will either blast your ears (with cans on) or wake the neighbours (with speakers connected). As mentioned not 100% reliable, but most of the time decent.

But: there is no input option shown in any any software. I didn't know that it's a headset socket, so I may give it a try tomorrow with the respective 4 pole cable just for completeness.
I have no idea what makes the output work, it's quite bizarre as you can't even activate the volume control (which jumps back into off position every time).

Offline Metrophage

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #757 on: August 20, 2018, 04:05:00 PM »
Yes, as documented, the stock sound under the mini is useless, you need a USB or FW interface that has the ability to route "System Sound" and all is well

I was sort of aware of the audio issues, but I expected them to play out a bit differently. I am accustomed to my TiBook which also has no onboard audio. But in that case, of course it has supported audio that is simply fried (before I obtained it, as was the FireWire - I was able to fix the latter). So I thought "no big deal" because If I need audio I connect the MOTU. Difference being that the TiBook "thinks" it has normal audio I/O under SoundManager, so that system still acts normally even without the MOTU.

For the Mini, I just need to remember not to try testing audio programs without an external interface connected. The web pages of MorphOS claim to have working audio on Minis, I wonder if that part of the project is open source or not.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #758 on: August 21, 2018, 12:34:22 PM »
on OSX you could do that either by firmware (actually boot efi) modification to make it think it had a virtual audio device (like the Xserve does) or use an real audio driver which does not complain about missing hardware (like the motu would) - soundflower works great for that.

in OS9 it is a bit more difficult, at least i dont know a virtual audio driver offhand. and even if you had one, you would get into trouble that it of course would not automatically switch back to motu (like it does in OSX) next time the motu device is connected/turned on.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #759 on: August 21, 2018, 01:45:02 PM »
Imho what they implemented in this system/ROM/patch works like a virtual driver.
If I start with extensions disabled, there's sound from Tokyo/Koblo and Peak through the Mini's headphone out.
The Gamma 9000 Drumbox and the Stella 9000 Sampler worked really well.
If there are glitches, they seem level based (which also may apply generally to the the flaws experienced in other apps), something like the sampling range exceeded.
Turning level down fixes it.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 07:18:35 AM by Astroman »

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #760 on: August 22, 2018, 08:46:56 AM »
Quote
Imho what they implemented in this system/ROM/patch works like a virtual driver.
If I start with extensions disabled, there's sound from Tokyo/Koblo and Peak through the Mini's headphone out.
The Gamma 9000 Drumbox and the Stella 9000 Sampler worked really well.

That is very interesting... but I am assuming you ARE using the stock apple sound manager ASIO drivers (within the App) with extensions disabled ?  If not, I don't understand this at all

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #761 on: August 22, 2018, 09:57:18 AM »
Peak obviously doesn't use Soundmanager/Asio it shows just 'Internal' for output (but Peak doesn't run with extensions disabled at boot time, as it loads some library stuff and Open Transport, I've edited my post above).
Tokyo seems entirely self contained and gets sound out without any extentions active.

But in fact it's confusing: now Sonicworx crashes reliably on loading Asio Soundmanager, which it previously did several times.
Also opening the sound control panel now freezes the machine, while originally it opened the thing and just did nothing except jumping back to zero output level.
I will probably re-install from a fresh copy...  :-[

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #762 on: August 22, 2018, 11:20:49 AM »
The reinstall fixed it. Sonicworx is loading Asio Soundmanager and sounds good, as long as input file sound level doesn't exceed -6dB/fs. Bias Peak 3.2 is also working normal.
Learned: virtual memory is poison for digital audio - the system started with VM on and Tokyo stumbled through it's beats  ::)

Offline brirec

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #763 on: August 22, 2018, 08:07:06 PM »
I think I have this working right, finally!

What’s preventing DVI video and better audio support? Maybe I could help, but I don’t know enough about it yet — I would like to learn.

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #764 on: August 23, 2018, 12:58:38 AM »
One can solve all audio problems with an external interface and these (oldies) are cheap today.
You'd need one anyway for better sound quality (in particular) for microphone and instrument input. So it's simple not worth the effort.
Similiar on video: the onboard ATI hardware is miles below the capabilities of a current iPhone.
Too much time for just nostalgia imho.

In the audio domain the old OS9 software provides a lot of efficiency within a rather 'undisturbed' working environment. Bias Peak lets me collect sample loops from recorded audio in no time at all. A couple of mouse function mods with USB Overdrive let me handle selection, precise start/end point and auditioning with just the mouse alone.

Not all audio under OS9 is created equal, but some software featured a quality that's competetive even to standards 20 years later.
That's probably the reason why a lot of folks here are into digital audio.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 01:20:31 AM by Astroman »

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #765 on: August 23, 2018, 01:06:45 AM »
Peak obviously doesn't use Soundmanager/Asio
Tokyo seems entirely self contained and gets sound out without any extentions active.

they both support and require ASIO, but on the mac mini we still have to discover some "best practice" yet.

(if you instll new apps, dot forget to move a copy of your hw driver into each app... OS9 style)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #766 on: August 23, 2018, 01:09:22 AM »
Similiar on video: the onboard ATI hardware is miles below the capabilities a current iPhone.
Too much time for just nostalgia imho.

if you really have an iphone with 24" monitor running tokyo and sonicworx then pls post a tutorial. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #767 on: August 23, 2018, 01:33:00 AM »
Peak obviously doesn't use Soundmanager/Asio
Tokyo seems entirely self contained and gets sound out without any extentions active.

they both support and require ASIO, but on the mac mini we still have to discover some "best practice" yet.
seriously: Peak doesn't require Asio to run and output sound. It get's along with that 'sweet nuthin' it finds. Whatever that is...
Only if you select an item from the effects menu, it wll inform you that this needs an Asio driver running (... go to setup and select the driver...), so this proves that Asio is not active and not needed either. For me it's not a problem because I'm only into the edit part.
And I didn't touch any sound control panel or similiar items this time to avoid accidently spoiling the party.

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #768 on: August 23, 2018, 01:48:38 AM »
if you really have an iphone with 24" monitor running tokyo and sonicworx then pls post a tutorial. :)
You know that you can connect that phone with a lightning-to-hdmi cable with a big screen ;)
Btw it's quite funny to find some of those old algorithms featured in Sonicworx also in more elaborated versions in Zynaptiq products. (Zynaptiq is the successor of Prosoniq)

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #769 on: August 23, 2018, 12:16:30 PM »

you probaably mean sommething different, but you said peak would not need asio or soundmanger but still outputs audio.

this is verrry verrry harrrd to believe. :D

yeah, that fft stuff from sonic worx is surely more interesting in real time.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #770 on: August 23, 2018, 01:14:31 PM »
in fact it's hard to believe, and I'm not a digital audio noob.
The Mini is connected with a mini-stereo to 2xTR to the line inputs of my iConnectAudio4+ so any audio comes from that Mini headphone socket... for whatever reason.

Today I scored a 1GB Simm for cheapo, PC3200 specs (suggested PC2700 unavailable) - works, too.  :)
Local pickup of an old interface seems more challenging, but for the time being I can record realtime output by the iCA4+.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #771 on: August 24, 2018, 02:14:50 AM »
try bootig without soundmanager and you will see what happens :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #772 on: August 24, 2018, 05:00:59 AM »
well... same as before, Tokyo, Sonicworx and Peak simply work  ;D
(but my estimation of the level distortion problem is not correct, it seems a Sonicworks specific issue related to the import file format. One of my reference files (24bit) plays flawless in Peak, but transient scratches in Sonicworks, no matter if I bring the level down, reduce bit depth or apply both)

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #773 on: August 24, 2018, 06:24:07 AM »
lol, maybe you found a new feature of the mini OS.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #774 on: August 24, 2018, 08:11:58 AM »
definitely not - I'm just using what those (really) smart guys hacked/implemented.
It was mentioned explicitely that 'sound doesn't work', maybe some stubs or fake stuff inserted just to make the Mini boot.

Since sound is a synonym for Asio/DAW in most cases, it's in fact unoperable and crashes.
Let alone you can't control the Mini's sound level, even active speakers are at risk when those glitches occur. With a preamp and cans the situation is less dramatic.
My own use is rather humble: just catch some sound snippets from files generated by some of those digital vintage processors and audiotiong with those app's internal sound is more than adequate.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #775 on: August 24, 2018, 08:23:50 AM »
Quote
level distortion problem is not correct, it seems a Sonicworks specific issue related to the import file format. One of my reference files (24bit) plays flawless in Peak, but transient scratches in Sonicworks
I don't know if this is related, but I was also getting the same symptoms in sonicworks with 24-bit files playing thru my 2496, I then replaced the ASIO 2 driver with the "Metro" ASIO driver and then all played crystal clear, so I know for a fact there is a relationship between the "scratches" and each ASIO driver, you say your ASIO folder is empty... so this may not be helpful.  There have been times when I literally have 3 to 4 different ASIO drivers for the same audio hardware all on the same mac, but for different applications... some use 2.0, some 1.0 and some just like one revision over another

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #776 on: August 24, 2018, 08:32:46 AM »
thanks, good to know - the Asio folder cannot be empty, SW will refuse to work then.
It loads it's default AsioSoundmanager file (as indicated on the splash screen), but obviously not caring about Soundmanager at all.
I won't go into any config panels, afraid of causing havoc again ...  ;D

Offline macStuff

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #777 on: August 24, 2018, 06:08:28 PM »
does this thread really have 777 replies ? :o
epic!
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #778 on: August 24, 2018, 07:17:04 PM »
It was mentioned explicitely that 'sound doesn't work',

that applies to the distortion you hear and the missing volume control. soundmanager itself work perfectly - if your audio IO supports it.

however, i cant reproduce what you said, using peak or tokyo and getting sound without sound driver. in fact you can not even select "no driver".
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline brirec

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #779 on: August 26, 2018, 09:42:46 PM »
does this thread really have 777 replies ? :o
epic!
Of course it does. If you consider that Mac OS 9 has virtually no multiprocessing support and doesn’t touch more than 1 GB of RAM, my 1.5 GHz Mac mini is actually faster than my MDD G4! It also cost a hell of a lot less, is much smaller and quieter, and uses less power. It’s almost portable!

You can buy a G4 mini on eBay for under $100 easily, and often under $50 especially if you’re willing to do work on it, and at this point in time it’s certainly worth adding an SSD if you have the know-how (though this CD from this thread means you don’t need to know how to do any more than plug it in!) This makes running OS 9 natively more practical than ever. Whatever the reason you wish to is, whether it’s old recording software, nostalgia, old games, or whatever, you can do it a million times faster than with a G3 iBook in approximately the same space.

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #780 on: August 27, 2018, 01:15:16 AM »
You could build a custom case providing (possibly) better heat distribution for the ATI graphic chip on the backside and improve the CPU heatsink to run fanless.
Btw an original IBM Thinkpad PSU would make a great replacement for the original one.
(those go into standby low current mode automatically if the consuming device is turned off)


Offline MacTron

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #781 on: August 27, 2018, 09:06:18 AM »
Of course it does. If you consider that Mac OS 9 has virtually no multiprocessing support and doesn’t touch more than 1 GB of RAM

The same old myths again  :-\  ... this is not true, it was discussed a lot of times, just make a search please ...
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline brirec

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #782 on: August 27, 2018, 09:25:16 AM »
Of course it does. If you consider that Mac OS 9 has virtually no multiprocessing support and doesn’t touch more than 1 GB of RAM

The same old myths again  :-\  ... this is not true, it was discussed a lot of times, just make a search please ...
Well, I see you’re right for sure! I meant 1.5 GB as that’s what I saw on my MDD, but it seems I was completely wrong on both counts!

Still, a G4 mini is definitely a great system to run Mac OS 9 on, and while I’m wrong about Mac OS 9 not being able to fully utilize the (mostly) better hardware of my MDD, there are certainly power and size benefits from 3-4 years of miniaturization!

Offline MacTron

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #783 on: August 27, 2018, 11:35:28 AM »
Of course it does. If you consider that Mac OS 9 has virtually no multiprocessing support and doesn’t touch more than 1 GB of RAM

The same old myths again  :-\  ... this is not true, it was discussed a lot of times, just make a search please ...
Well, I see you’re right for sure! I meant 1.5 GB as that’s what I saw on my MDD, but it seems I was completely wrong on both counts!

Yes, you are wrong about multiprocessing support too. The Mac Os 9 have multiprocessing support, but very few apps use it. If your work depends on one of them, it really worth for sure. Cubase 5 for example can increase up to 2X its CPU power with a dual CPU.


Still, a G4 mini is definitely a great system to run Mac OS 9 on
I'm agree with you.
But the 1Gb of RAM limit of this machine make it unusable for me.

mini means mini, always :)
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #784 on: August 27, 2018, 12:11:09 PM »
but mactron, minis are so small, you could use 5 of them - and then you have 5 GB of RAM with OS9. ;)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline brirec

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #785 on: August 27, 2018, 12:26:06 PM »
but mactron, minis are so small, you could use 5 of them - and then you have 5 GB of RAM with OS9. ;)
indeed, I bet I could fit ten or more minis in the same amount of space my MDD takes up, they’d be using probably a similar amount of power, and now we’ve got ten CPUs and (up to) 10 GB of RAM!

Offline Metrophage

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #786 on: August 28, 2018, 11:45:56 PM »
I needed to check out some internals, and in the process give the Mini a good cleaning - probably its first. But now having put it all back together, I've borked it. I am quite experienced, having tinkered with Macs for about 20 years. But for the past five or so, everything I touch seems to turn to shit. I set up new systems, and within a couple of days/weeks they are dead. Minis give me some hope because they are cheap and plentiful, but I am way too broke to go through this every time.

Offline Astroman

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #787 on: August 29, 2018, 12:35:24 AM »
maybe you just ripped off the on-switch during reassembly - happened to me...  :-[

Offline Metrophage

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #788 on: August 29, 2018, 01:06:21 AM »
No, but I broke something. Sometimes it starts to boot, and freezes - other times it emits the three "bad RAM" tones. Even for the stick that was working yesterday. So if I had to guess if the problem was all of my RAM or the Mini, the latter seems more probable.

Offline Daniel

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #789 on: August 29, 2018, 07:02:27 AM »
I really hope you can fix that, because my iBook G3 has the same problems. A pity, because it is the only Mac OS 9 laptop I have with a working battery.

On an unrelated note, there are so many posts here that I think we might need a new sub-forum entirely for the mini.

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Sleeper - Mac Mini - FREE!
« Reply #790 on: September 18, 2018, 06:35:51 PM »
Well Sports Fans…

For those that have been using “Sleeper” on the Mac Minis, our good buddy Jon over @ St.Clair Software has provided us with our very own special username and registration number (in order to quell yet another bothersome, repetitive dialog box upon startup with the mini). Full copy of Jon’s (what-a-guy) communique follows… enjoy!

“I’ve created a serial number for MacOS9Lives folks (below). As I said before, it's pretty much "as-is" because I don't have a Mac OS 9 machine here that I can use to provide tech support. That said, the software's pretty bullet-proof - by version 3.5 I'd pretty much programmed help into it for most common problems.

Those were the good old days when I used to write OS patches in assembly language. ;D Now we're stuck with layers upon layers of stuff in macOS, including yet more security hoops in 10.14 that both developers and users have to jump through. Anyway, here's a serial number. If folks in the community would like to say thanks and support a long-time indy software developer, they're welcome to PayPal donations to gotow@stclairsoft.com

- Jon

Here is your Sleeper 3.5 registration information:

       Your Name:  Mac OS 9 Lives
       Registration Number:  5140

To remove the purchase reminders from Sleeper, follow these steps:

1. Open the Sleeper control panel
2. Click on the 'Register...' button
3. Click on the 'Enter registration code' button
4. In the fields provided, type in your name and registration number exactly as they appear above.  You may type any information you want into the 'Organization' field, such as your company or department name.”

(I added all the italics above.)

Soooo… PayPal Jon a buck (or five) or maybe just drop him a quick note of appreciation. Damned nice of him I’d say. Maybe let him know it is appreciated(?).
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #791 on: September 19, 2018, 06:51:50 AM »
*like*
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #792 on: September 23, 2018, 03:00:52 PM »
Wow that's a lot of comments! Amazing work, sorry didn't read all of 'em.
The few links I saw for an ISO are all dead. Is there a ready-to-go OS 9 installer for Mac mini?
Got a 1st gen 1.42GHz mini here that would be very happy on OS 9 :)

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #793 on: September 23, 2018, 03:25:00 PM »
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RocAG5EizhVw_YjY4VlKi0OG4d7wQARj/view

burn, follow instructions, (eventually make sure to backup since it reinitialises your HD), enjoy!
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #794 on: September 23, 2018, 03:38:48 PM »
Thanks a lot! Burning now

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #795 on: September 23, 2018, 07:36:51 PM »
Thanks to everyone that made this possible, I now have the perfect Mac mini; one with OS 9 on it :D
Made a little video on it. Nothing new to the folks here of course but still figured I'd share.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt2AYXMLzgY&feature=youtu.be

Offline thatguychad

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #796 on: October 04, 2018, 06:30:05 PM »
So what inexpensive solutions are there to getting audio?

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #797 on: October 04, 2018, 06:58:23 PM »
So what inexpensive solutions are there to getting audio?
Sabrent USB External Stereo Sound Adapter for Windows and Mac. Plug and play No drivers Needed. (AU-MMSA) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IRVQ0F8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_SdSTBbD8T28YY

I bought one of those. Worked, as it says, without installing anything. On Mac OS 9. But FYI, it seems a little flaky/strange at times, as it has some strange quirks. For example, the volume isn’t controllable.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #798 on: October 04, 2018, 10:27:33 PM »
Regarding the onboard chip: I had a few cracks at it, but honestly I don’t understand the native Sound Manager architecture or the hardware well enough to make much progress.

If anyone wants to have another shot, I can post my work on the Apple Audio Extension to GitHub.

Offline SabithaSuki

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #799 on: October 31, 2018, 10:22:22 PM »
Any chance for an upgrade package, so we dont have to wipe our HDD's with an earlier version (not to mention files and software)?

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #800 on: November 01, 2018, 07:30:44 AM »
Any chance for an upgrade package, so we dont have to wipe our HDD's with an earlier version (not to mention files and software)?
Is this what you mean, or something else?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17n20BaT_bLgBtsGJwS0D-6sNWJ-Kuluh/view
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #801 on: November 01, 2018, 07:41:14 AM »
you dont need to wipe, booting and formatting is kind of only an extra feature of ross´ CD.

if you already have OS9 drivers on a disk, you can just copy the system folder from the CD over to install a new or repair an existing system.

or why dont you make your own: just make a backup of your system from a fresh install and put it on CD. bootable or not.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline torvan

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #802 on: November 06, 2018, 12:42:55 PM »
Am seriously looking at a Mini G4 1.5Ghz that is listed for less than $50 with shipping.

But before I make the plunge, I assume this model will not be any different than the successful OS 9 install on the  1.42 and 1.25 models?  I mean looking at the respective models on Everymac.com, the only difference outside of processor speed is the larger memory on the ATI 9200, USB 2, faster standard HDD, Bluetooth 2, and Airport G. 

Or am I spelling "assume" as a short name for the sentence? :-)

Offline Daniel

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #803 on: November 06, 2018, 12:59:42 PM »
Am seriously looking at a Mini G4 1.5Ghz that is listed for less than $50 with shipping.

But before I make the plunge, I assume this model will not be any different than the successful OS 9 install on the  1.42 and 1.25 models?  I mean looking at the respective models on Everymac.com, the only difference outside of processor speed is the larger memory on the ATI 9200, USB 2, faster standard HDD, Bluetooth 2, and Airport G. 

Or am I spelling "assume" as a short name for the sentence? :-)
The current state thread claims all speeds will work. Though really you can buy just about any G4 system you want: the "Dream Team" is good enough to get it working if they have someone available to test stuff.

Offline FdB

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #804 on: November 06, 2018, 03:23:57 PM »
Hey T.
I assume this model will not be any different than the successful OS 9 install on the  1.42 and 1.25 models?
Working? With power supply? Go for it!

Have 3 out of the 4 “flavors” here and they all accepted the “New Nine”. (Yet to acquire a 1.33 GHz.)
Understand that the 1.42 is relatively easy to over-clock to run @1.5 …should one so-desire,
but still very nearly as fast… without the bother.

Installed an SSD & adapter sled in one 1.5GHz here, which works very well (even two-partitioned
with OS X - 10.4 resident). Absolutely great little machines and the only things I look out for now is
scarred cases (per Neanderthal-like attempted case entries) and the 1GB maximun RAM installed.
(Still inexpensive to purchase and easy to install.) If you get Bluetooth and WiFi too,
well those are added pluses.

If you get one with a less-than the optimum “white” plastic top, or a scarred case… they can be
painted to conceal such things …and there are many varieties of complete top cover “stickers”.
My OCD and a desire to better dissipate heat prompts me to clean the rubber bottom and then
apply four small adhesive (1/8" feet) to the rubber bottom "corners" for airflow / cooling.

Only real task I’ve yet to do, is to replace the heatsink paste but with Winter here and the fact
that the nylon “keepers” can be replaced on the heatsink’s with new / small, threaded nylon
nuts and bolts (from the hardware store if necessary)… that may also happen here, soon.

You like your G4 iMac?… you might just love a little Mac mini with a nice DVI monitor.
(I do... I have freakin’ seven of them now!) ???
All hail the "Dream Team"! 
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #805 on: November 07, 2018, 08:51:42 PM »
Am seriously looking at a Mini G4 1.5Ghz that is listed for less than $50 with shipping.

you are right, it is thhe same machine like the 1.4 , main difference is the 64 VRAM.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #806 on: November 08, 2018, 01:14:35 AM »
Teensy hint for a poster way back: the best way to make a mini boot 9 by default is to put 9 on a partition closer to the start of the disk than your X partition. Fiddly otherwise.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #807 on: November 09, 2018, 04:18:40 AM »
closer to the start means that you have to look for the technical name of the partitions, because their order is often upside down when you create 2, right?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #809 on: November 14, 2018, 07:44:10 PM »
Any chance for an upgrade package, so we dont have to wipe our HDD's with an earlier version (not to mention files and software)?
Is this what you mean, or something else?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17n20BaT_bLgBtsGJwS0D-6sNWJ-Kuluh/view
Yes thank you ross! Sorry for the delayed response.

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adding serial port RS-422 to the mac mini G4 - is it possible?
« Reply #810 on: November 17, 2018, 05:25:49 PM »
the mac mini has a modem right? is there any way to attach a stealth port to it? has anyone done this?
everymac site says: " A modem was not provided, but an internal modem still could be added for US$29. " i dont really understand that?
what good is a modem without a telephone line plugged into it :) lol .. mactron will pop in now and make fun of everymac.com some more heh
 "The Mac mini G4/1.5 lacked the internal modem by default" 

i think the 1.25 ghz models were the only models that had the telephone modem port on the back panel?
but the other higher mhz models, including the 1.5 ghz models didnt have any telephone port at all?
can anyone confirm this? what good is a modem internally without a phone line port to plug it in tho? im confused ;0

just lookin at this now because im on the phone with a friend who was talkin about using a Xserve to add a stealth port to one..
just to get his mac up off the floor + in the rack to clear up space.. his idea not mine. i never thought of that..
anyway yea i did see a post by macOsPlus tthat spoke of the DB9 serial port being able to be used with the stealth port driver..
news to me.  (see this think classic thread: https://www.thinkclassic.org/viewtopic.php?id=1040 )
Quote
One thing that had been nagging in my mind for a while was whether or not the (X-Serve's) built-in DB9 serial terminal/server management port was openly accessible in the typical manner of standard Mac serial ports under OS 9, since it would never appear as a device.  On a hunch I installed the driver extension file for the Stealth Serial Port to see if the Xserve's built-in port used the debug port trick in the same manner as the Stealth.  Well it turns out it actually does!!! http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3902.0.html

anyway has anyone rigged up a mac mini to a serial port?
my friends asking me how he can keep his oldschool serial mac gear + clear out his studio (which is cramped for space)
he mentioned the XSERVE i mentioned the mac MINI! telling him its basically an MDD in a small box without the weight + without the noise..
which would be PERFECT for "just MIDI" if it could interface DIRECTLY with a stealth port somehow... 

is there a serial port in the mac mini?
anyway to get the mac mini retrofitted to a stealth port?
does anyone have images of the modem connector port?
« Last Edit: Today at 06:07:05 AM by macStuff »
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

Offline Daniel

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #811 on: November 17, 2018, 07:47:34 PM »
I tried to figure out if that was possible back when I first got my mini.

I don't remember the details, but I think it uses a different size connector or something (and that connector might not output serial). I think I searched for mini modem replacement photos and counted the number of pins to figure out what connector type it was. It's been so long I'm not sure of anything about it anymore.

Offline macStuff

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It's been so long I'm not sure of anything about it anymore.

lol i can definately relate there..  brain cells come + go ! lol  ;D

i found this image of the RJ-11 connector to attach the phone cable to the modem?
http://www.usedmac.com/products/922-6694-mac-mini-g4-rj-11-logic-to-modem-cable


found some images of the logic board.. yea the connector looks to be slightly modified + "mini-ized"
maybe we could talk to Alex hixon http://alexhixon.com/projects/jamport/
perhaps he could make a stealth port that can work on the mac mini?
because it looks like every mac mini g4 has this spot reserved for the rj-11 connector that could be
retro-fited for the serial port connector!!! i would be pretty turned on to see a mac serial port rigged there!
but this would be an amazing development! breathing life back into the mac mini g4
one last final frontier... this is making me think of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Generations lol :)

« Last Edit: Today at 06:09:26 AM by macStuff »
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Offline macStuff

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #813 on: Today at 06:11:11 AM »
looks very similar the connector? but is it the same? and will a jamport or stealth physically fit inside ?
would it be possible to create an adaptor of some sort to allow the stealth port connnector to interface with the mac mini g4 modem port connector?
« Last Edit: Today at 06:35:09 AM by macStuff »
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

Offline Daniel

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #814 on: Today at 07:20:33 AM »
A closeup of the logic board (https://www.mini-itx.com/news/13909018/, found through google) reveals that the modem port has 2x15 pins. According to the Jamport development page (http://alexhixon.com/projects/jamport/development.html#modem-connectors) this corresponds with either the MicroDash connector which has serial, or the Q52 connector which doesn't.

I'm not sure which one it is.

Offline macStuff

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #815 on: Today at 08:12:59 AM »

heres the pinout for microdash.. from hixons site
all the serial connections seem to be on the first 16 pins
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