Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)

[DieHard]

Imho what they implemented in this system/ROM/patch works like a virtual driver.
If I start with extensions disabled, there's sound from Tokyo/Koblo and Peak through the Mini's headphone out.
The Gamma 9000 Drumbox and the Stella 9000 Sampler worked really well.

That is very interesting... but I am assuming you ARE using the stock apple sound manager ASIO drivers (within the App) with extensions disabled ?  If not, I don't understand this at all

[Astroman]

Peak obviously doesn't use Soundmanager/Asio it shows just 'Internal' for output (but Peak doesn't run with extensions disabled at boot time, as it loads some library stuff and Open Transport, I've edited my post above).
Tokyo seems entirely self contained and gets sound out without any extentions active.

But in fact it's confusing: now Sonicworx crashes reliably on loading Asio Soundmanager, which it previously did several times.
Also opening the sound control panel now freezes the machine, while originally it opened the thing and just did nothing except jumping back to zero output level.
I will probably re-install from a fresh copy... 

[Astroman]

The reinstall fixed it. Sonicworx is loading Asio Soundmanager and sounds good, as long as input file sound level doesn't exceed -6dB/fs. Bias Peak 3.2 is also working normal.
Learned: virtual memory is poison for digital audio - the system started with VM on and Tokyo stumbled through it's beats 

[brirec]

I think I have this working right, finally!

What’s preventing DVI video and better audio support? Maybe I could help, but I don’t know enough about it yet — I would like to learn.

[Astroman]

One can solve all audio problems with an external interface and these (oldies) are cheap today.
You'd need one anyway for better sound quality (in particular) for microphone and instrument input. So it's simple not worth the effort.
Similiar on video: the onboard ATI hardware is miles below the capabilities of a current iPhone.
Too much time for just nostalgia imho.

In the audio domain the old OS9 software provides a lot of efficiency within a rather 'undisturbed' working environment. Bias Peak lets me collect sample loops from recorded audio in no time at all. A couple of mouse function mods with USB Overdrive let me handle selection, precise start/end point and auditioning with just the mouse alone.

Not all audio under OS9 is created equal, but some software featured a quality that's competetive even to standards 20 years later.
That's probably the reason why a lot of folks here are into digital audio.

[IIO]

Peak obviously doesn't use Soundmanager/Asio
Tokyo seems entirely self contained and gets sound out without any extentions active.

they both support and require ASIO, but on the mac mini we still have to discover some "best practice" yet.

(if you instll new apps, dot forget to move a copy of your hw driver into each app... OS9 style)

[IIO]

Similiar on video: the onboard ATI hardware is miles below the capabilities a current iPhone.
Too much time for just nostalgia imho.

if you really have an iphone with 24" monitor running tokyo and sonicworx then pls post a tutorial.

[Astroman]

Peak obviously doesn't use Soundmanager/Asio
Tokyo seems entirely self contained and gets sound out without any extentions active.

they both support and require ASIO, but on the mac mini we still have to discover some "best practice" yet.

seriously: Peak doesn't require Asio to run and output sound. It get's along with that 'sweet nuthin' it finds. Whatever that is...
Only if you select an item from the effects menu, it wll inform you that this needs an Asio driver running (... go to setup and select the driver...), so this proves that Asio is not active and not needed either. For me it's not a problem because I'm only into the edit part.
And I didn't touch any sound control panel or similiar items this time to avoid accidently spoiling the party.

[Astroman]

if you really have an iphone with 24" monitor running tokyo and sonicworx then pls post a tutorial.

You know that you can connect that phone with a lightning-to-hdmi cable with a big screen
Btw it's quite funny to find some of those old algorithms featured in Sonicworx also in more elaborated versions in Zynaptiq products. (Zynaptiq is the successor of Prosoniq)

[IIO]

you probaably mean sommething different, but you said peak would not need asio or soundmanger but still outputs audio.

this is verrry verrry harrrd to believe.

yeah, that fft stuff from sonic worx is surely more interesting in real time.

[Astroman]

in fact it's hard to believe, and I'm not a digital audio noob.
The Mini is connected with a mini-stereo to 2xTR to the line inputs of my iConnectAudio4+ so any audio comes from that Mini headphone socket... for whatever reason.

Today I scored a 1GB Simm for cheapo, PC3200 specs (suggested PC2700 unavailable) - works, too. 
Local pickup of an old interface seems more challenging, but for the time being I can record realtime output by the iCA4+.

[IIO]

try bootig without soundmanager and you will see what happens

[Astroman]

well... same as before, Tokyo, Sonicworx and Peak simply work 
(but my estimation of the level distortion problem is not correct, it seems a Sonicworks specific issue related to the import file format. One of my reference files (24bit) plays flawless in Peak, but transient scratches in Sonicworks, no matter if I bring the level down, reduce bit depth or apply both)

[IIO]

lol, maybe you found a new feature of the mini OS.

[Astroman]

definitely not - I'm just using what those (really) smart guys hacked/implemented.
It was mentioned explicitely that 'sound doesn't work', maybe some stubs or fake stuff inserted just to make the Mini boot.

Since sound is a synonym for Asio/DAW in most cases, it's in fact unoperable and crashes.
Let alone you can't control the Mini's sound level, even active speakers are at risk when those glitches occur. With a preamp and cans the situation is less dramatic.
My own use is rather humble: just catch some sound snippets from files generated by some of those digital vintage processors and audiotiong with those app's internal sound is more than adequate.

[DieHard]

level distortion problem is not correct, it seems a Sonicworks specific issue related to the import file format. One of my reference files (24bit) plays flawless in Peak, but transient scratches in Sonicworks

I don't know if this is related, but I was also getting the same symptoms in sonicworks with 24-bit files playing thru my 2496, I then replaced the ASIO 2 driver with the "Metro" ASIO driver and then all played crystal clear, so I know for a fact there is a relationship between the "scratches" and each ASIO driver, you say your ASIO folder is empty... so this may not be helpful.  There have been times when I literally have 3 to 4 different ASIO drivers for the same audio hardware all on the same mac, but for different applications... some use 2.0, some 1.0 and some just like one revision over another

[Astroman]

thanks, good to know - the Asio folder cannot be empty, SW will refuse to work then.
It loads it's default AsioSoundmanager file (as indicated on the splash screen), but obviously not caring about Soundmanager at all.
I won't go into any config panels, afraid of causing havoc again ... 

[macStuff]

does this thread really have 777 replies ?
epic!

[IIO]

It was mentioned explicitely that 'sound doesn't work',

that applies to the distortion you hear and the missing volume control. soundmanager itself work perfectly - if your audio IO supports it.

however, i cant reproduce what you said, using peak or tokyo and getting sound without sound driver. in fact you can not even select "no driver".

[brirec]

does this thread really have 777 replies ?
epic!

Of course it does. If you consider that Mac OS 9 has virtually no multiprocessing support and doesn’t touch more than 1 GB of RAM, my 1.5 GHz Mac mini is actually faster than my MDD G4! It also cost a hell of a lot less, is much smaller and quieter, and uses less power. It’s almost portable!

You can buy a G4 mini on eBay for under $100 easily, and often under $50 especially if you’re willing to do work on it, and at this point in time it’s certainly worth adding an SSD if you have the know-how (though this CD from this thread means you don’t need to know how to do any more than plug it in!) This makes running OS 9 natively more practical than ever. Whatever the reason you wish to is, whether it’s old recording software, nostalgia, old games, or whatever, you can do it a million times faster than with a G3 iBook in approximately the same space.