Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)

[IIO]

ok i just figured out that the monitor controlpanel is in fact installed.

but what is weird is that when i start monitor control panel from an existing system folder on the HD, it claims it could not load because the monitor extension would be missing.

and the monitor control panel on the CD looks totally different from the normal OS9 control panel.(?)

yes i think a link to the controlpanels in the applemenu would be nice. resolution and mouse and these things should be easily accessible.

it might confuse noobs that you get warning message about not beeing abel to write the prefs file when you chnge something but that is better than not beeing able to control the settings.

I remember you copying over the System Folder directly from the CD, which is meant for the CD only, instead of using ASR.

lol no, i did that intentionally to see what happens.

my minis work fine, but one of them is left unattached from the music world and serves for testing stuff atm.

...

what i m currently trying to figure is how one could easily choose in which OS to boot (via remote on headless machines) when there is more than one system.

right now i turn it on, then reboot it (e.g. into OSX). doable but not perfect.

[OldIowaMac]

Just a note about a frustrating problem I had been trying to install onto a 1.25 Mini. After several tries and failing due to the Mini not recognizing keyboard commands to either start from the CD or show all bootable devices, a switch of a non-Apple keyboard for an old G3 keyboard did the trick. Maybe this is common knowledge. If not....

Otherwise, what a great project you have accomplished here!

[IIO]

slightly off topic... short question, short answer?

i have an app which i renamed to "finder" in order to make the computer "boot" right into that app.

to run this app, it is required to run another app before.

this other app is in the autostart folder. the user doesnt need to touch it, it does its job, then closes itself.

now my question is, is that at least somewhat "thread safe"?

(how) can i be sure that the autostarted app will be open before the "finder" is launched?
(the job that other app performes is really quick, ~25ms on a mac mini)

[IIO]

 - solved -

[vectrex]

Another success here. Posting this from my 1.42 Mac Mini!

Installation was a breeze with the latest CD (targetbooted the mac mini, used a Powerbook G4 to install).

Very awesome, thank you all SO much!

[gmvengineer]

I would also like to thank everyone involved in the Mac Mini project. I have always wished I could run OS 9 on my 1.25 Mini which I bought new from the Apple store so many years ago. What a huge advantage it is because it's so quiet! I've been through so many G4 machines including the mighty Mirror Doors but they all were much too noisy. So for those who are interested, I installed OS 9 on the Mini (1.25 w/ 1 GB Ram) then went into my closet and pulled out all of my original audio apps which include Cubase 5, ProTools 5.2.1, Reason 1, Recycle 1.7, Rebirth and Reaktor 2.3. I'm using all of those apps with an original Mbox and everything is working very well! Combine that with several of the plug ins from this website plus a very quiet Mac Mini and I now have a machine that I always imagined.

I plan to mix something on this system and then mix the same song on my Mac Pro in Logic X just to see how they compare.

Your efforts are very much appreciated! 

GMV

[DieHard]

I would also like to thank everyone involved in the Mac Mini project. I have always wished I could run OS 9 on my 1.25 Mini which I bought new from the Apple store so many years ago. What a huge advantage it is because it's so quiet! I've been through so many G4 machines including the mighty Mirror Doors but they all were much too noisy. So for those who are interested, I installed OS 9 on the Mini (1.25 w/ 1 GB Ram) then went into my closet and pulled out all of my original audio apps which include Cubase 5, ProTools 5.2.1, Reason 1, Recycle 1.7, Rebirth and Reaktor 2.3. I'm using all of those apps with an original Mbox and everything is working very well! Combine that with several of the plug ins from this website plus a very quiet Mac Mini and I now have a machine that I always imagined.

I plan to mix something on this system and then mix the same song on my Mac Pro in Logic X just to see how they compare.

Your efforts are very much appreciated! 

GMV

Wow, real world Mac mini into DAW mode !

I have wanted to do similar things with a few old projects, please keep us posted and link the 2 MP3s so we can also evaluate the 2 mixes !

[darthnVader]

I would also like to thank everyone involved in the Mac Mini project. I have always wished I could run OS 9 on my 1.25 Mini which I bought new from the Apple store so many years ago. What a huge advantage it is because it's so quiet! I've been through so many G4 machines including the mighty Mirror Doors but they all were much too noisy. So for those who are interested, I installed OS 9 on the Mini (1.25 w/ 1 GB Ram) then went into my closet and pulled out all of my original audio apps which include Cubase 5, ProTools 5.2.1, Reason 1, Recycle 1.7, Rebirth and Reaktor 2.3. I'm using all of those apps with an original Mbox and everything is working very well! Combine that with several of the plug ins from this website plus a very quiet Mac Mini and I now have a machine that I always imagined.

I plan to mix something on this system and then mix the same song on my Mac Pro in Logic X just to see how they compare.

Your efforts are very much appreciated! 

GMV

Music or it didn't happen.

[Metrophage]

WooHoo! You guys rock. I have been without a functional OS9 box for about two years, and just got a mini G4. Within minutes I was able to use Ross' latest disc to get it set up, and am currently backing up the stuff from my broken TiBook. It was easier and quicker than an official install, and seems rock solid so far. Thank you so much!

[Metrophage]

Guess I spoke a little too soon about stability. The mini works great most of the time, feels very responsive. But it often freezes when starting programs - and ONLY when starting programs. This was before I loaded anything that added any extensions or control panels. I will need to poke around in the system folder, and re-seat the RAM once I figure out how to open this thing.

[Astroman]

Needs some patience if applied the for 1st time for the plastic notches of the case are fairly stiff (it's a pure clamp construction).
Get a very thin, but slightly rounded spatula and start inserting on one side for a quarter inch or so. Then gently lever so the inside comes up a bit over edge. Do the same on the other sides and go round in a few sequences, lifting it more and more.
That's the basic idea, but check ifixit for details with the screws and some cables. It's not difficult, but a bit messy.

Btw my results are similiar to yours, and some even bizarre.
I don't have a matching external audio interface and onboard sound is either off or full on.
Initially it crashed right about on SonicWorx, then (after connecting the acryl speakers from a Cube) it played with crackles, next step was Koblo (that worked nicely) and eventually it's usable. Iirc Koblo's gain (running in background) could be abused to control general sound level, as the regular panel is disfunctional.

At least the Mini seems to have kind of settled regarding sound, but it's not 100% reliable.
Sitting on top of it's modern OSX bro is picking up a tremendous amount of noise from the OSX box, if that is active - probably because gain of the virtually non-existent input channel is full up. I expect an external interface to improve things much.

Strength and Honour to the fellows who made this possible at all and my deepest respect

ps: running it with an Eizo 1920x1200 - occasional screen 'going blacks' on the DVI input, but it comes back immediately. Seems to be the common ATI experience. This screen doesn't work with DVI from my G3 B/W at all (using a VGA to DVI cable solved that issue).

[DieHard]

Btw my results are similiar to yours, and some even bizarre.
I don't have a matching external audio interface and onboard sound is either off or full on.
Initially it crashed right about on SonicWorx, then (after connecting the acryl speakers from a Cube) it played with crackles, next step was Koblo (that worked nicely) and eventually it's usable. Iirc Koblo's gain (running in background) could be abused to control general sound level, as the regular panel is disfunctional.

Yes, as documented, the stock sound under the mini is useless, you need a USB or FW interface that has the ability to route "System Sound" and all is well

[Astroman]

in fact the non-functional sound was what kept me away from this experiment for a long time.
But with the new CD it seemed such a quicky that I took the plunge.
Peak with the 'Internal' sound setting worked quite well, though, but after messing with Asio/Soundmanager a certain part of my testfile developed a very specific artefact that wasn't there before and remained at the very same location. Let's see what's there after reboot...

Until I get an interface I'm quite happy that I can at least preview some soundmangling with SonicWorx (which I like for it's gritty output and surprises).
Peak 3.2 is a bit more fluid than the 2.5 TDM on my G3 B/W and that basically covers what's needed to process and cut sound snippets.
(in particular the USB Overdrive mapping of mousewheel to zoom, wheel click to 'set region as loop' and right button 'play-stop' make it super fast and easy)

[FdB]

Just as soon as I get my tiny head out of “reel-to-reel world”
(TEAC models: A-1500-W, A-6010 und X-2000R)...
I long to return to the thrilling Mac mini sound exploits,
as I’ve now quite a few possibly suitable interfaces.

Analog to digital… ain’t I got fun?

TEAC-parts and NAB adapter PMs welcome.

I know, I know… tapeheads.net 

[brirec]

I have a rather odd problem occurring: I bought an mSATA to 44pin IDE adapter on Amazon and an mSATA SSD, and if I plug it in I have no optical drive — the Mini just does not see an optical drive at all. I tried borrowing another optical drive from a PBG4, and it didn’t make a difference, and I tried two other mSATA to 44pin IDE adapters (including the one that works just fine in the PBG4)

Anyone else have this problem? Is it the adapter? Any suggestions?

Right now I’m using a G4 MDD in Target Disk Mode with an mSATA SSD as an installation target, then swapping the SSD over to the Mini, but to say this isn’t ideal is a bit of an understatement…

Also, I thought someone said the onboard sound works with the headphone output? I’m not getting any onboard sound at all. I ordered a new-old-stock Griffin iMic that I’m sure will do just fine, but I really hoped to have this working

Lastly, if I install both Mac OS 9 and Tiger is there a way to set Mac OS 9 as default? Or will I have to option-boot it every time?

[FdB]

Which adapter did you get? Are there jumper settings on it for slave, master, CS, etcetera?
Might need to look more closely at the installation instructions for the adapter... and
configure jumper settings accordingly.

[Astroman]

... Also, I thought someone said the onboard sound works with the headphone output? I’m not getting any onboard sound at all. I ordered a new-old-stock Griffin iMic that I’m sure will do just fine, but I really hoped to have this working

yes, that was me, 2 posts above yours - sending the headphone out into a preamp because it's uncontrollable and will either blast your ears (with cans on) or wake the neighbours (with speakers connected). As mentioned not 100% reliable, but most of the time decent.

But: there is no input option shown in any any software. I didn't know that it's a headset socket, so I may give it a try tomorrow with the respective 4 pole cable just for completeness.
I have no idea what makes the output work, it's quite bizarre as you can't even activate the volume control (which jumps back into off position every time).

[Metrophage]

Yes, as documented, the stock sound under the mini is useless, you need a USB or FW interface that has the ability to route "System Sound" and all is well

I was sort of aware of the audio issues, but I expected them to play out a bit differently. I am accustomed to my TiBook which also has no onboard audio. But in that case, of course it has supported audio that is simply fried (before I obtained it, as was the FireWire - I was able to fix the latter). So I thought "no big deal" because If I need audio I connect the MOTU. Difference being that the TiBook "thinks" it has normal audio I/O under SoundManager, so that system still acts normally even without the MOTU.

For the Mini, I just need to remember not to try testing audio programs without an external interface connected. The web pages of MorphOS claim to have working audio on Minis, I wonder if that part of the project is open source or not.

[IIO]

on OSX you could do that either by firmware (actually boot efi) modification to make it think it had a virtual audio device (like the Xserve does) or use an real audio driver which does not complain about missing hardware (like the motu would) - soundflower works great for that.

in OS9 it is a bit more difficult, at least i dont know a virtual audio driver offhand. and even if you had one, you would get into trouble that it of course would not automatically switch back to motu (like it does in OSX) next time the motu device is connected/turned on.

[Astroman]

Imho what they implemented in this system/ROM/patch works like a virtual driver.
If I start with extensions disabled, there's sound from Tokyo/Koblo and Peak through the Mini's headphone out.
The Gamma 9000 Drumbox and the Stella 9000 Sampler worked really well.
If there are glitches, they seem level based (which also may apply generally to the the flaws experienced in other apps), something like the sampling range exceeded.
Turning level down fixes it.