Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)

[IIO]

that´s interesting.

so you suggest that as consequence 2.1 should be used as default and the older one is only an alternative in case you have problems with certain oxford controllers?

this would affect the universal 922 iso as well i think. http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3089.msg19892.html#msg19892

[FdB]

If 2.1 yields me better working read/write performance in the mini (as it appears to do)
then I'll use 1.9.2 when I have to... to format any externals (that I might need to).

And sure, I question the validity of all benchmark apps... but QuickBench
and MacBench 3.0 seem to agree with each other in this particular instance.

As I now consider the possible differences for HDs in Quicksilvers & MDDs.

Yet... I'll wait for confirmation/denial from "other" testers.

[RossDarker]

Maybe I should change some of the v8 iso so it mentions this, make 2.1 the default again. And I can put both versions so they appear in the apple menu of the CD.

If this is possible... Can you format a drive with 1.9.2, then update the drivers from 2.1. But then 2.1 might not let you update the drivers if it is <not supported>. And also a chance that it has nothing to do with the disk drivers.

[FdB]

Wouldn't get in a big hurry to change anything until someone else confirms the results.
I wiped and re-initialized the drive before re-installing the OS in each test. (Not fun.)
But it was an "either-or" test from the onset. If it works out and is confirmed, then you
might consider an "update".

And, the tests were performed with only the basic OS from the install disks installed.
No other software was installed on the Zheino during the tests.

[Stash]

Had a version of Tiger working on a Mac mini 1.25GHZ with SSD Drive.

Was keen to get Os9 working on it as well.

Used v7 to create 2 partitions one for OSX one for OS9.

Can install OS9, but OSX installers now just stall.

any thoughts?

John

[FdB]

Not an OWC SSD by any chance?

If you’ve a Tiger install CD and the mini won’t boot (or Option-Boot)
from it to install (I had that problem after installing v.7). You might try
the Open Firmware boot option described below. (Typed exactly as shown.)

Then there’s also Firewire Target Disk mode too,
if you’ve another machine to attempt the install from.

But, you say it “stalls” as if you’re able to get into the install… just so far?

A little more info from you might be needed.

[Stash]

more info..

Aim: wanting a faster PPC machine to open old music files both on OS9 and OSX

Initially:
After installing the SSD inside the Mac mini, I transferred a working version (dual) boot of a system 10.4/OS 9 running on a G4 iMac.
using CarbonCloner with the drive under Target mode.

All worked fine, except it would not boot in OS 9,
Google researched and ended up here.

After partitioning the device into 2 drives (both with OS9 Drivers and one Extended, the other Extended Journaled (for OS X), I have tried installing via
- Target Boot and Carbon Cloner a disk image of previous install.
- Tiger CD install direct from CD.

Both process start but kinda stop part way through then cursor freezes and SWOD.

Hope that helps.

numbers times, now I cant get an OS X image on the OS X partitions

[IIO]

two other things i would try first (before using target disk mode to clone a partition or booting from OF)

 - using an alternate optical drive via usb or firewire

 - boot into OS9 first, select the tiger install CD via "startup volume" control panel.

[Stash]

two other things i would try first (before using target disk mode to clone a partition or booting from OF)

 - using an alternate optical drive via usb or firewire

 - boot into OS9 first, select the tiger install CD via "startup volume" control panel.

tried both..
Went the OS9 route first and it really didn't like booting up via the CD for OS X
OS9 installed successfully.

So went far enough to create 2 partitions that had OS 9 Drivers and thought get OS X installed first and then return to an OS9 install..

this is where I am.

[darthnVader]

It's really best to partition the disk from the Terminal when booted from the OS X install CD/DVD, I outlined how to do that.

If you want a partition for OS 9, and one for OS X, it would be something like:

Code: [Select]

diskutil partitionDisk /dev/disk1 2 OS9Drivers HFS+ MacHD 4000M JHFS+ OSXHD R
This would create 2 partitions, one name MacHD formated HFS+ that is 4000 Megabytes, and one names OSXHD formated JHFS+ that would use the remainder of the disk.

Just adjust the size in megabytes you want for you OS 9 partition, and insure you are partitioning the correct disk( /dev/diskx ).

[Stash]

thanks for all your help... appreciated it and let me know if this is not the place for this discussion.

Tried Terminal and getting "Does not appear to be a valid disk size"

[Ninester]

thanks for all your help... appreciated it and let me know if this is not the place for this discussion.

Tried Terminal and getting "Does not appear to be a valid disk size"

I boot from mini mod OS9 cd.  Initialise, create two partitions, install os9. Restart, check for good boot os9. Restart and insert Tiger disk, use "C" key to boot into Tiger installer, install Tiger in other partition.  This mainly to insure good Tiger boot CD images from Mac Garden. I have the four CD and single Tiger DVD boot image.  Worked many installs, no bootable FW for me.

If, all your CD's good, no SSD errors, then ?  Boot into Tiger then run disks utilities to verify SSD?

..send your mini to FdB, he will put it on the "rack"..

[IIO]

It's really best to partition the disk from the Terminal when booted from the OS X install CD/DVD, I outlined how to do that.

if there are scenarios (other than user error) where the mini-CD can cause that a mini refuses to boot from a tiger CD we need to fix that on another level.

aand for now i assume a user error or something with USB - because why would a mac not boot from a volume only because some other volume on aanother drive isnt right?

[FdB]

It's really best to partition the disk from the Terminal when booted from the OS X install CD/DVD, I outlined how to do that.

if there are scenarios (other than user error) where the mini-CD can cause that a mini refuses to boot from a tiger CD we need to fix that on another level.

aand for now i assume a user error or something with USB - because why would a mac not boot from a volume only because some other volume on aanother drive isnt right?

Myself (occasionally being the involuntary practitioner of user error)…
have just discovered that using Drive Setup 2.1 on the “mini-mod” v.8 install disk, and then two-partitioning the drive before installing the “mini-mod” v.8 software… the mini then allows the C-boot install of Tiger 10.4 (from single DVD) AND even Tiger 10.4.6 (also from single DVD)… whereas before, I invoked the Open Firmware method to boot from the Tiger install DVDs (when I had used Drive Setup 1.9.2 previously, which would not allow the Tiger C-boot).

Yet another reason to use Drive Setup 2.1 when installing the “mini-mod” v. whichever number?

In other, related news…

Last night I went ahead and ran the comparison between the two Drive Setups on a 1.25 GHz mini with a (probable) 4200 RPM Seagate 80GB HD to check which Driver version was installed and it checked out… 3.25 vs. 3.3 (as expected). Quickbench results weren’t as dramatic as with the 1.5GHz with Zheino, but there were improvements. Suppose that with a slower drive, one can’t expect that much drama.

Re-initialized a 1.25 GHz mini with Drive Setup 1.9.2 from the v.8 install CD and it installs HD Driver 3.2.5 …whereas Drive Setup 2.1 installs HD Driver version 3.3. QuickBench comparisons for both (below) show a slight increase in performance with the 80GB Seagate standard HD. Not nearly as dramatic as the Zheino results in the 1.5 GHz mini… but still, a little boost in some areas as the XFer sizes increase.

Did not check cold boot times but I did discover that my earlier report of 50 seconds on the 1.5GHz mini was incorrect. Had timed that with the 1.92 Drive Setup on the 1.5GHz with the 3.25 HD driver in place. After that discovery, re-initialized the 1.5GHz with Drive Setup 2.1 and clocked that cold-boot @ 38 secs. A mere 4 seconds more (without any pruning) than my previous 34 second, best…

So, there is no 16 second increase in boot time when using 2.1.
(The increased cold boot time came with 1.9.2.)

My apologies. Erreur de l'utilisateur!

FireWire and frozen mouse noise, later.

 

[FdB]

And then...

After C-booting the Tiger 10.4.6 install disk and before installing the OS… using Tiger’s disk utility I then erase the second partition set up previously with the mini-mod and format that second partition as “Extended Journaled” before installing OS X. Afterwards, if I want to boot OS 9, I must Option-boot to choose it. If I want to re-boot into OS X, I can select that from the Startup Control Panel… but OS 9 is not available in the OSX  System Prefs under Startup Disk.

All the above on the 1.25 GHz mini, but I’m almost certain it’ll be the same in the 1.5 GHz mini. (Also, no time-shift weirdness as of yet, between OS 9 and X.)

FireWire External

Formatting the VST 10GB FW drive with 2.1 yields an “Unrecognized” or “not mounted” comment via mini-mod OS 9.2.2 v.8 (or something like that). So I format the FW drive with Disk Setup 1.9.2 which seems to work best across various Mac OS'es and machines. However, after mounting the FW drive and even after ejecting it, QuickBench then reports the reduced 1.9.2 performance results. Yes, even after it’s been put away / disconnected. But, after a reboot, the improved performance QuickBench results return. Go figure.

Frozen Mouse

Encountered many freezes at startup on the 1.25 Ghz mini last night. I’m using an Apple 20” Cinema Display (metal) and plugging my keyboard and mouse into that as a sort of USB hub. Probably demanding a lot from the mini. But, I simply moved the USB plug from that Cinema Display to the USB port (USB 1) closest to the mini’s video-out and haven’t had a freeze since. Know that sounds odd, but it’s true. Perhaps someone with more internal knowledge of the mini might explain this? Good Ju-Ju?

For now, I rationalize it as the USB port closest to the FireWire port on the back of the mini has had more use by previous owner(s), who… like me, used that port thinking to allow easier in/out access for thumb drives and/or other USB devices? Before adopting the USB 1 approach, I always tried to keep the mouse/cursor moving until complete boot (which seemed to help for the most part). But, unattended boots too often resulted in el-freeze-o de-Lux.

(I don’t plug the Cinema Display’s Firewire connector into the mini’s… I reserve that for direct connect to external FW drives.)

Question for IIO: If you’re using Drive Setup version 1.8 "something-or-other", what Driver version number is showing up in your Apple System Profiler under OS 9 on your G4 Mac mini?

 

[IIO]

sorry my current machines are all "built" with OX, i.e. all IDE volumes have versions 3.3 and all SATA volumes have 8.1.4 (the raids have "not available")

[IIO]

wait i am wrong, most fw disks are older than the last rebuild. i think it doesnt show any info tho. will check again with the tiger utility later.

[Stash]

After 25 attempts of partitioning OS X and OS 9 drives, I manage to do it.
Turns out the optical CD/DVD drive was causing the system to hang "IOATAController device blocking bus".

I removed my SSD and formatted outside of the box.
Reinserted.
Managed to get one good OS 9 install of v8 of the disk
Then removed the optical drive for good.

Seems to have fixed the problem.

Thanks for everyones' help.

John

[IIO]

found another small issue.

1. when you want to boot from the mini CD for some reason you might want to have access to unstuffing/unzipping.

for that it would be nice when stuff it engine and carbon lib would be included in the CDs boot system.

2. booting with the mini CD might for some people lead to a resolution totally unsupported by his monitor.

for that it would be nice when system monitor extension and the monitor control panel would be included in the CDs boot system.

eventually the monitor controlpanel should be available via apple menu or apple menu / control panels
(or even in autostart? dont know about you, but setting the resolution is the first thing i do when configuring a new machine.)

.

i have not yet checked what could speak against including those items.

[RossDarker]

Right now the CD uses the "Mactron System Folder", I believe that's what it's called and I have customised some things so it works on the Mac mini, and customised the Apple Menu when you're booted off the CD only. I can if you want add that Control Panel to the Apple Menu on the CD, and put extension in the system folder. This would be an update to the V8 CD. By the way are you now using a properly installed system? I remember you copying over the System Folder directly from the CD, which is meant for the CD only, instead of using ASR.