Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 64431 times)

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #450 on: April 10, 2018, 05:55:21 AM »
It's blessed and I can select it with classic. I can boot it through the option key at startup. I think it doesn't show up in X as a startup disk because the Mac mini doesn't boot a standard OS 9. Doesn't matter too much though.

The start up disk control panel in OS X goes by the Model Identifier.

You have to change the Model in Open Firmware to one of the OS 9 supported Macs, then you will be able to see OS 9 system folder in OS X start up disk control panel.


Offline Jubadub

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #451 on: April 10, 2018, 07:25:24 AM »
The start up disk control panel in OS X goes by the Model Identifier.

You have to change the Model in Open Firmware to one of the OS 9 supported Macs, then you will be able to see OS 9 system folder in OS X start up disk control panel.

Are there any known negative side-effects to OS X by doing this?

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #452 on: April 10, 2018, 03:21:26 PM »
The Mac mini is also required to have a custom System Suitcase. It has ID 3 taken from the boot resource from an older version of ELN's roms copied into the boot resource of the suitcase. I don't know if it is still required (it definitely did originally) but it's still what the latest CD image uses.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #453 on: April 13, 2018, 11:56:30 AM »
the negaitve effect would be that we can not include this change to OSX on the OS9 CD.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #454 on: April 13, 2018, 02:22:25 PM »
tried to boot a stock 1.42 from the mini CD v5 - it hangs at the ethernet driver and shows a bomb.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #455 on: April 13, 2018, 02:28:46 PM »
tried to boot a stock 1.42 from the mini CD v5 - it hangs at the ethernet driver and shows a bomb.

I have a 1.42 and I test every CD I make so your ethernet port must have something wrong, or maybe you could try reset PRAM. Maybe your CD was burned at too high of a speed, could be scratched also.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #456 on: April 13, 2018, 02:41:36 PM »
i´ve indeed used a very cheap, minor quality, media (first time in my life), but the machine doesnt complain that the media can not be read when you attempt to copy it to HD.

maybe there is an issue with my 1920*1200 setting? i will see soon...

for now i am copying the OS9 folder to HD and use it as classic enviroment. (there is a juvenile 10.4.11 installed)

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #457 on: April 13, 2018, 02:45:12 PM »
uh no, of course that doesnt work :) i go via firewire boot.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #458 on: April 13, 2018, 02:50:35 PM »
You could try getting the contents of the disk image (ISO) to a USB stick:

hdid -nomount /Path\ to/MacminiV5.iso
(Take note of the number /dev/diskX, what ever X is)

diskutil list

diskutil unmountDisk /dev/diskY
or
diskutil umount /dev/diskY
 (Y being the disk of the USB)

sudo dd if=/dev/diskX of=/dev/diskY
(Use ctrl+t, to see how many bytes transferred)

Then boot the Mac mini from the USB in open firmware
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #459 on: April 13, 2018, 03:08:04 PM »
ok i found out what was up.

the mac mini doesnt seems to like when you remove the usb keyboard during operation.

because that is what i did during the CD installation above.

i tried to remove the usb keyboard during OSX boot on the same machine now - and it also happens (well, it continues to boot but you dont get the keyboard get. i have never seen this before on a mac...)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #460 on: April 13, 2018, 03:55:14 PM »
uh, last time i used an external DVD drive, this time the mini drive, pretty slow :)

proposals for the future:

 - remove registration, welcome video, and setup assistant

 - remove IE and add "our" classilla

 - add "our" torrent client

 - merge the applications folder from the CD into the applications (OS9) folder and include it in the ASR installation. (system profiler is for sure more of use than graphing calculator. btw some of these apps are present twice, in both folders. yes, i know that some of them go into the apple menu, but i think apple was wrong here :) )

 - already have usb overdrive, joliet access and eventually a VNC server installed, of course as opt-in, under (disabled)

 - maybe i am going too far... but what about quicktime pro?

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #461 on: April 13, 2018, 05:09:23 PM »
I think every extra that doesn't come with a stock Mac OS 9.2.2 should be in the CD Extras folder, and leave everything else stock in place, as it is right now. Even the relatively-useless stuff like IE 5. The user can then make the choices. I find this important so the OS 9 releases remain "clean", and draw a line between what is stock and what is not. :) I personally am fine eitherway, but generally-speaking, others may look at the release with skepticism the more different the installed OS is from what they would expect from a fresh, "true" OS 9 install. Well, just my 2 cents, of course.

I also totally agree with MacTorrent appearing in the CD Extras folder, what a great, nice piece of software that is. :)

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #462 on: April 13, 2018, 05:35:47 PM »
I can add in the MacTorrent to CD Extras, which currently contains Classilla 9.3.3, USB Overdrive, Bugdom (Shareware) and Multiprocessing folder. I think I can fit about an extra 130MB before the image becomes full, which I set to 670MB or something like that. You can skip welcome video & registration with command+q. I'll always keep the System you restore just like a standard install from Apple, yep CD Extras folder is where I'll keep the optional stuff.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 05:53:49 PM by RossDarker »
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #463 on: April 13, 2018, 06:07:41 PM »
you´re probably right
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline solderwire

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #464 on: April 14, 2018, 10:45:03 AM »
Thanks for the amazing work ;)
Is it possible to port non-English version of Mac OS 9.2.2 to Mac mini G4? My language is not English so I would be appreciated if I can get OS 9 running on my mini G4.
Mac mini G4 and iBook G3 (Dual USB)

Offline macStuff

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #465 on: April 14, 2018, 11:00:33 AM »
Thanks for the amazing work ;)
Is it possible to port non-English version of Mac OS 9.2.2 to Mac mini G4? My language is not English so I would be appreciated if I can get OS 9 running on my mini G4.

you might want to tell them what language it is that you are interested in
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Offline solderwire

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #466 on: April 14, 2018, 11:13:35 AM »
Thanks for the amazing work ;)
Is it possible to port non-English version of Mac OS 9.2.2 to Mac mini G4? My language is not English so I would be appreciated if I can get OS 9 running on my mini G4.

you might want to tell them what language it is that you are interested in
Simplified Chinese. The only downloadable 9.2.2 in Simplified Chinese is a ISO labeled "Power Mac G4 install" with ROM 9.0.1. I got it working on my friend's 1GHz TiBook by replacing ROM and graphics drivers. He said I may need to modify the System Suitcase to get it running on Mac mini G4.
Mac mini G4 and iBook G3 (Dual USB)

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #467 on: April 14, 2018, 02:34:25 PM »

1. do the install of the mini CD as described in the textfile

2. after you booted into OS9 from HD, exchange everything in the systemfolder except ROM, suitcase and graphics drivers with your chinese/french/german stuff
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline macStuff

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #468 on: April 14, 2018, 02:55:33 PM »
solderwire:
you may have to wait till someone has the time to accomplish the task
but im fairly certain that they will probably accomodate your need for a chinese install iso disk.
to make it possible for all chinese users to use this mac in this way!
theres many billions of people on the planet who speak this language so its definately not a waste of time logically speaking

considering this thread has 25,000 views people are interested
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 04:11:03 PM by macStuff »
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Offline macStuff

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #469 on: April 14, 2018, 03:53:33 PM »
has the 1.5ghz mac mini g4 been overclocked by anyone yet?
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Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #470 on: April 14, 2018, 10:43:04 PM »
Hi solderwire,

Your problem is the reason that I was initially reluctant to build Mac OS ROM files with a resource fork. The System Enabler parts are localised.

But this can be fixed with a bit of ResEdit action. I expect that your Mac OS ROM is of a late enough version. Use ResEdit to delete all the resources *except the cfrg resource* from my latest Mac OS ROM file. Then paste in all the resources from your Simplified Chinese Mac OS ROM file. This ROM file should be all that you need to get a Simplified Chinese 9.2.2 booting on the mini, although I suggest that you also use darthnVader’s graphics drivers!

Offline solderwire

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #471 on: April 14, 2018, 11:16:01 PM »
Hi solderwire,

Your problem is the reason that I was initially reluctant to build Mac OS ROM files with a resource fork. The System Enabler parts are localised.

But this can be fixed with a bit of ResEdit action. I expect that your Mac OS ROM is of a late enough version. Use ResEdit to delete all the resources *except the cfrg resource* from my latest Mac OS ROM file. Then paste in all the resources from your Simplified Chinese Mac OS ROM file. This ROM file should be all that you need to get a Simplified Chinese 9.2.2 booting on the mini, although I suggest that you also use darthnVader’s graphics drivers!
Thanks for your reply. Can I use the System suitcase that comes from the PM G4 Install CD? There are too many strings to translate in the English System Suitcase!
Mac mini G4 and iBook G3 (Dual USB)

Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #472 on: April 15, 2018, 06:04:22 AM »
Thanks for your reply. Can I use the System suitcase that comes from the PM G4 Install CD? There are too many strings to translate in the English System Suitcase!

You bet!

Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #473 on: April 15, 2018, 06:08:28 AM »
Based on a superficial comparison of two MacsBug StdLogs, I suspect that disabling the "Application Switcher" extension fixes the frozen-mouse problem.

Could I please have some testers?

Also, whenever anyone next encounters the problem, would you please post an StdLog of the boot that exhibits the problem, followed by an StdLog from a subsequent problem-free boot?

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #474 on: April 15, 2018, 09:17:45 AM »
Would you still need resource ID 3 from Boot resource in a ROM to go into the suitcase.
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Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #475 on: April 15, 2018, 05:10:32 PM »
No. That nasty patched boot 3 resource hasn't been needed for weeks! Trash it.

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #476 on: April 16, 2018, 09:45:55 AM »
That's cool, I'll stop using that in future CD's.
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Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #477 on: April 18, 2018, 11:08:54 PM »
I'm using the latest ROM now with no new issues appearing.  I have something else to discuss, but it will have to wait for the afternoon.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 11:25:58 PM by MacOS Plus »

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #478 on: April 19, 2018, 11:22:59 AM »
Quote
I have something else to discuss, but it will have to wait for the afternoon.

Oh sure, tease us and not tell us, OK, my mini will stay off in protest until you spill the beans

Offline macStuff

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #479 on: April 19, 2018, 11:24:53 AM »
stop trying to make us non-mini owners jealous
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Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #480 on: April 19, 2018, 04:28:51 PM »
stop trying to make us non-mini owners jealous

 I suppose it'd be cruel of me to mention I have a second one coming in the mail right now? ;) ;D

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #481 on: April 19, 2018, 06:44:33 PM »
Alright, so here's what I was planning to post about:

  The issue with the Mini's monitor timing at 1920x1080 was really starting to nag at my brain.  I wanted to determine once and for all if this was a very simple issue.  Booting into OS X on VGA produced exactly the same right-offset and oddly narrow image width as under OS 9 with the same LCD at 60Hz vertical refresh.  From past experience with other platforms I was very suspicious that this was merely related to the pre-determined horizontal scan rate being too high for the ATI analog driver hardware itself to behave correctly, similar to how some monitors act when a signal is mildly outside of their compatible frequency range.

  The reason I was leaning towards the ATI hardware is that the behavior is identical on both OS 9 and OS X as well as on a completely different LCD too.  The other LCD is a strange beast - it has a native 1366x768 resolution panel but has a built-in scaler that can actually accept 1920x1080 input and scale it to fit the native resolution.  Even in this case the image width and offset were exactly the same!  That placed the root of the problem directly in the ATI hardware.

  I installed SwitchResX so that I could at least test timing alterations under OS X to prove my hypothesis.  The available VGA timing in the resolution table of this ATI hardware at 1920x1080/60Hz was 67.5KHz horizontal scan rate.  I pulled an arbitrary reduction out of the air, 65KHz, and SwitchResX spit out the number 65.078 as the actual usable figure.  This also automatically reduced the vertical refresh rate from 60Hz to 58Hz - 58.209 to be exact.  (The pixel clock increases as a result of this from 159.84MHz to 167.64MHz.)  I saved this custom resolution and then rebooted to enable it.

  End result?  Perfectly aligned and sized, crystal clear 1920x1080 image on VGA!!!  The simple explanation for this not working automatically on its own has to be that such a setting is not programmed into the timing table in the ATI ROM on this 9200 and it has no overriding code in the driver.  This is such a dead-simple fix in OS X just by using SwitchResX, and it fully proves the hardware is capable of a workable timing mode for 1920x1080 on VGA.  Now how the hell do we make such an adjustment in OS 9?  If it's possible in OS X, it has to be possible through some method in OS 9 too.

  The even more curious thing is that OS X will perfectly set working scan rates for 1920x1080/60Hz on DVI, while OS 9 blanks out at the desktop with an unusable mode.  OS X correctly identifies the monitor's name via the DVI data lines, but with VGA it never does on either OS.  It is impossible to say if the monitor's model name is being detected in OS 9 on DVI since I never get an image at the desktop.  I am strongly leaning toward a large portion of our problem being improper handling of the monitor's sense codes, leading to unworkable default values being used instead.  I would suspect that the VGA scan frequency hardware limitation simply compounded the issue.  Do we attack one, the other, or both?  Fixing the sense code handling may actually correct both of the issues, but we may still have to find a way to allow custom frequencies anyway.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #482 on: April 19, 2018, 07:36:33 PM »
those numbers make sense, but i still dont get why that specific resolution can not be correctly be displayed with the ATI, or to be exact, why there seems to be NO resolution working for this monitor "natively".

2k is a so common format that one should think it works with every monitor.

however, you know that switchres is available for OS9, too, do you? it is not 100% the same features, but almost.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #483 on: April 19, 2018, 07:57:54 PM »
There have been a lot of things in the Apple world that should have just worked but didn't.  Whatever the nature of this glitch turns out to be, it must not have affected enough users to make Apple care about resolving it.  Certainly it's still odd that this would be a consistent issue through all the G4 Mini revisions.  You'd think it could have been fixed after the initial release in all subsequent revisions.  It is an established fact, however, that the ROM version used on this 9200 was never updated to fix various issues that were resolved on other 9200 platforms with official ATI updates.  It's entirely possible the 9200 ROM version in the Mini is partially crap.  Whether any of the offending behaviors were overridden with driver code I can't say for sure.

  I use SwitchRes on OS 9 routinely, but it will only let you select unlisted presets.  There is no comparable function for creating custom timings of any sort in the OS 9 version.  I've found that to be one of the most painfully lacking features.  It was otherwise nearly perfect.

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #484 on: April 19, 2018, 10:25:45 PM »
One additional observation for the night:

  I've made progress of sorts.  If I boot into OS X on VGA, which then stores the custom SwitchResX low-scanrate 1920x1080 resolution into PRAM or NVRAM (wherever it goes), then reboot into OS 9 with all the ATI extensions off, the special mode is retained all the way to the OS 9 desktop without any mode switching during reboot, startup or desktop load.  Perfect VGA 1920x1080!  If you don't 'pre-set' the VGA mode with OS X and just straight boot OS 9 without the extensions, VGA comes up with a locked 640x480 resolution only.  DVI, on the other hand, will work perfectly from initial detection to desktop at a locked 1920x1080!

  This brings us back around to ATI's drivers/extensions.  In some way they are upsetting the modes, so they are at least partially responsible for the invalid scan rate on VGA, and directly responsible for the black-screen-desktop invalid mode on DVI.  I can only assume they contain timing overrides and/or resolution tables that don't take into account the eccentricities of the Mini's specific 9200 variant.  I will put the extensions back in one-by-one to see which one is responsible for the resolution switching during startup.

  I will have to leave it to someone else to dig into the content of the extensions code to sort this out.  That part is way beyond my capabilities.  Hopefully what I've observed and learned here can at least point our 'team' in the right direction.

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #485 on: April 20, 2018, 04:03:32 AM »
One additional observation for the night:

  I've made progress of sorts.  If I boot into OS X on VGA, which then stores the custom SwitchResX low-scanrate 1920x1080 resolution into PRAM or NVRAM (wherever it goes), then reboot into OS 9 with all the ATI extensions off, the special mode is retained all the way to the OS 9 desktop without any mode switching during reboot, startup or desktop load.  Perfect VGA 1920x1080!  If you don't 'pre-set' the VGA mode with OS X and just straight boot OS 9 without the extensions, VGA comes up with a locked 640x480 resolution only.  DVI, on the other hand, will work perfectly from initial detection to desktop at a locked 1920x1080!

  This brings us back around to ATI's drivers/extensions.  In some way they are upsetting the modes, so they are at least partially responsible for the invalid scan rate on VGA, and directly responsible for the black-screen-desktop invalid mode on DVI.  I can only assume they contain timing overrides and/or resolution tables that don't take into account the eccentricities of the Mini's specific 9200 variant.  I will put the extensions back in one-by-one to see which one is responsible for the resolution switching during startup.

  I will have to leave it to someone else to dig into the content of the extensions code to sort this out.  That part is way beyond my capabilities.  Hopefully what I've observed and learned here can at least point our 'team' in the right direction.

Ok, you're having more of an issue than just the 135Mhz pixel clock limitation for non-coherent displays.

VGA is tricky, a true VGA display should have adjustments on it. It's normal to have to adjust the  horizontal and vertical centering on a VGA display. It's been a long time since I fooled around with this stuff, front porch timings, back porch timings, V refresh rate, H refresh rate.

Some displays don't have proper EDID, I've even gone so far as to edit them, and flash the EEPROM on the display that contains the EDID.

OS X has an EDID override, for displays that weren't or couldn't be flashed.

A lot of these display issues are real inside baseball, they could be fixed, but there is no telling how those fixes will break something else. The OS 9 'NDRV' could be patched to deal with your displays better, but what would that break for the rest of us.

 

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #486 on: April 20, 2018, 09:37:44 AM »
Some displays don't have proper EDID, I've even gone so far as to edit them, and flash the EEPROM on the display that contains the EDID.

OS X has an EDID override, for displays that weren't or couldn't be flashed.

i also believe that the main cause is the monitor itself. the symptom reminds me on the use of invalid or too long VGA cables. if you have a cable which does not allow OSX to communicate with the monitor to get its specs, then set the monitor settings in OSX using switchres, reboot the computer but leave the monitor powered on, it is beeeing refound and still works properly at the artificially set resolution and frequency. only when you turn the monitor off all is gone again.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #487 on: April 20, 2018, 11:46:40 AM »
This monitor has never had an issue with correct detection on some 30-plus systems its been attached to at one point or another.  The sync issue only appears with 1920x1080 resolution on the Mini.  If it detects correctly over DVI on OS X then it should do exactly the same thing in OS 9 because the the detection mechanism is the same.  I've used a number of alternate cables to no effect.  I've also shown it's not related to the pixel clock issue.  And I wasn't the only one having this problem.

  I'm willing to accept the monitor as a problem, but I've generated enough evidence to the contrary that I have a hard time believing that, especially considering a second LCD with a wider sync tolerance and scaling ability exhibited exactly the same behavior.  I would still find it useful for a number of other odd situations I've run into if at least some of the custom timing function of SwitchResX were available in SwitchRes.  There seems to be more at play here.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #488 on: April 20, 2018, 12:11:25 PM »
This monitor has never had an issue with correct detection on some 30-plus systems its been attached to at one point or another.  The sync issue only appears with 1920x1080 resolution on the Mini.  If it detects correctly over DVI on OS X then it should do exactly the same thing in OS 9 because the the detection mechanism is the same.  I've used a number of alternate cables to no effect.  I've also shown it's not related to the pixel clock issue.  And I wasn't the only one having this problem.

  I'm willing to accept the monitor as a problem, but I've generated enough evidence to the contrary that I have a hard time believing that, especially considering a second LCD with a wider sync tolerance and scaling ability exhibited exactly the same behavior.  I would still find it useful for a number of other odd situations I've run into if at least some of the custom timing function of SwitchResX were available in SwitchRes.  There seems to be more at play here.

I had to take the 'NDRV' from 10.3.7 for the Mini, as the other 'NDRV's from 10.5.8 and 10.4.x weren't OS 9 compatible. Ideally we would want to use the 'NDRV' from 10.5.8 like I did for the 9550, but it just doesn't work correctly.

The one we are using isn't a 100% fix, but for all my displays it works correct until I hit the non-coherent pixel clock limit.

The thing is, I bought my Mini for $20, it's a nice little toy, and it didn't take me long to hack out the OS 9 drivers for the R9200, but I'm just not looking to invest a bunch of time in decoding the 'NDRV' to work better with some displays.

I only put the time into the Mini I did in order to figure how the OS 9 drivers linked and loaded for ATI cards, because one day I would like to do register level emulation of 3D accelerated graphics for Qemu-System-PPC.

20 years from now, most of this hardware will be gone, or non-working, qemu will endure and allow people to use only Mac PPC applications.

Doesn't mean someone else won't take up the fight with the 'NDRV' issues, I just got it working as well as it can with the 4 displays I keep around, and I don't really see a need to invest more time into a $20 computer. 

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #489 on: April 20, 2018, 04:14:18 PM »
I would still find it useful for a number of other odd situations I've run into if at least some of the custom timing function of SwitchResX were available in SwitchRes.

sorry if had something different in remembrance. if you would write an executable which would imitate what switchres is doing in OSX when you select a custom seetting, for example by just calling one arbitrary setting, would that be enough to find out at what point the issue lies?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #490 on: April 20, 2018, 08:34:24 PM »
10.3.7 works out to December 15, 2004
so thats totally bang on... it was the end of 2004 when the support for mac os 9 really started to be removed
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #491 on: April 20, 2018, 09:15:52 PM »
  I very much appreciate your work, Darth, as it certainly made for a much better experience for me on my Mini.  I'm not asking You[/] personally to put any further time and effort into it, as others here can probably refine the code later.  (My Mini, and a second one currently in transit to me cost about $100 each, the first one because I thought I was getting a 1.5GHz model but the seller lied, and the second one so I actually end up with a 1.5GHz model - As such I intend to put them to serious work in the studio here running software synths and the like.)  Keep in mind that the unmodified 'stock' ATI drivers caused the same problem anyway.

  As it stands, my workaround is to boot the Mini to OS 9 with the ATI extensions off first so the machine detects the monitor on DVI and stores the working mode, then reboot with the extensions back on to gain back the acceleration.  This sequence preserves the properly timed 1920x1080/60Hz mode from the first boot indefinitely, presumably, unless I switch resolutions or disconnect/reconnect the monitor with the system up.  The monitor, on DVI, is detected correctly by name too in SwitchRes and the Monitors control panel - "W2243" (an LG model).  The only reason I would have for booting once to OS X would be to make VGA work on the following re-boot - DVI works without this trick.

  I presume the 'mechanics' of creating custom timings for OS 9 is complicated given that it was never a feature of any OS 9 or earlier utility that I'm aware of.  It would be great if we could do it, essentially back-porting the function from SwitchResX to SwitchRes, but I don't have any idea of the feasibility.  Maybe some of the coders here know enough to comment.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #492 on: April 21, 2018, 02:27:07 AM »
Alright, so here's what I was planning to post about

First-rate detective work as usual, MacOS Plus. Perhaps Daniel could cook up a utility that uses StartLib calls from within 9 to at least set display timings in NVRAM? This would not be very elegant, but I expect that it would find use with a few other Macs.

The thing is, I bought my Mini for $20, it's a nice little toy, and it didn't take me long to hack out the OS 9 drivers for the R9200, but I'm just not looking to invest a bunch of time in decoding the 'NDRV' to work better with some displays.

I only put the time into the Mini I did in order to figure how the OS 9 drivers linked and loaded for ATI cards, because one day I would like to do register level emulation of 3D accelerated graphics for Qemu-System-PPC.

20 years from now, most of this hardware will be gone, or non-working, qemu will endure and allow people to use only Mac PPC applications.

Doesn't mean someone else won't take up the fight with the 'NDRV' issues, I just got it working as well as it can with the 4 displays I keep around, and I don't really see a need to invest more time into a $20 computer. 

Good work so far, darthnVader! Would you consider putting together a "handover" repo that documents your patches and provides the required binaries? For posterity, I have been trying to leave as much of my Mac work online as possible (https://github.com/elliotnunn/cdg5). And somebody (possibly me) might be able to fix this resolution issue, even if it requires some sneaky special-casing. I appreciate any chance to show off my PEF patching stack.

If you do get working on 3D acceleration in QEMU, and you need to instrument some binaries on the Mac OS side, let me know!

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #493 on: April 21, 2018, 05:11:45 AM »
  I very much appreciate your work, Darth, as it certainly made for a much better experience for me on my Mini.  I'm not asking You[/] personally to put any further time and effort into it, as others here can probably refine the code later.  (My Mini, and a second one currently in transit to me cost about $100 each, the first one because I thought I was getting a 1.5GHz model but the seller lied, and the second one so I actually end up with a 1.5GHz model - As such I intend to put them to serious work in the studio here running software synths and the like.)  Keep in mind that the unmodified 'stock' ATI drivers caused the same problem anyway.

  As it stands, my workaround is to boot the Mini to OS 9 with the ATI extensions off first so the machine detects the monitor on DVI and stores the working mode, then reboot with the extensions back on to gain back the acceleration.  This sequence preserves the properly timed 1920x1080/60Hz mode from the first boot indefinitely, presumably, unless I switch resolutions or disconnect/reconnect the monitor with the system up.  The monitor, on DVI, is detected correctly by name too in SwitchRes and the Monitors control panel - "W2243" (an LG model).  The only reason I would have for booting once to OS X would be to make VGA work on the following re-boot - DVI works without this trick.

  I presume the 'mechanics' of creating custom timings for OS 9 is complicated given that it was never a feature of any OS 9 or earlier utility that I'm aware of.  It would be great if we could do it, essentially back-porting the function from SwitchResX to SwitchRes, but I don't have any idea of the feasibility.  Maybe some of the coders here know enough to comment.

One thing I didn't think of would be to try the 'NDRV's from the other 3 variations of the R9200, it's a long shot but maybe the one for the retail card would work.

I'll gave it a shot sometime this weekend and see if any of them work with my setup.

One odd outstanding issue for me is at some point one of ELN's ROMs made the R9200 show the NTSC modes as well as the modes for my display. I've seen some others having this issue too, I'm not sure if it is related to the display that is connected or it's a Rev. of the Mini itself?

The Mini did support NTSC with an adapter Apple sold. I assume the adapter had a custom EDID logic like the one for the G5 for nVidia cards, maybe the same adapter.

I had the adapter for the G5, it connected to the DVI port of an OEM card, and had S-Video and Composite. With a flashed GF 6600 GT it would enable the mini din breakout box if plugged to one of the DVI ports. The 6600 breakout box had S-Video, Composite, and Component. The Component ports supported HDTV up to 1920x1080, however I was never able to get it to work correct, I'd either get Black and White or a blue/red tent with no green, or something like that.

I conferred with the author of NVTV for Linux, and figured the registers and found the bit that needed to be set for the green channel, however   setting it would result in the TV losing sync.

I looked up the registers in Windows connected to the same card and TV, but it only told me what I already knew, the bit for the green channel was not being set on the Mac.

I never did figure the issue.

With the GF 6200 Atri Itra did a little special logic in the FCode, and it could enable the TV encoder without the need for the Apple adapter.   
 
Anyway, I'll see if I can cook up any working 'NDRV's from the other R9200's and report back.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #494 on: April 21, 2018, 10:11:55 AM »
MacOS Plus, can you run the following Open Firmware script on your Mac mini and show me the output? I want to see how the resolution info is stored in nvram.
Code: [Select]
" nvram" open-dev constant nvdev
" size" nvdev $call-method constant nvsize
nvsize alloc-mem constant nvbuf
0 " seek" nvdev $call-method
nvbuf nvsize " read" nvdev $call-method
.s clear
nvbuf nvsize dump

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #495 on: April 21, 2018, 08:12:02 PM »
Here's the output:

Code: [Select]
ffbbc000: 5a 82 00 02 6e 76 72 61 6d 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |Z...nvram.......|
ffbbc010: c1 d3 89 f1 00 00 02 cd 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc020: 5f 45 00 3e 73 79 73 74 65 6d 00 00 00 00 00 00 |_E.>system......|
ffbbc030: 00 02 00 00 63 61 73 68 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |....cash........|
ffbbc040: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc050: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc060: 00 00 00 00 be 23 c4 82 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |.....#..........|
ffbbc070: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc080: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc090: 52 48 55 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |RHU.............|
ffbbc0a0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc0b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc0c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc0d0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc0e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc0f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc100: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc110: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc120: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc130: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc140: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc150: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 59 4d 35 30 35 46 44 50 |........YM505FDP|
ffbbc160: 52 48 55 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |RHU.............|
ffbbc170: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc180: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc190: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc1a0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc1b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc1c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc1d0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc1e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc1f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc200: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc210: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc220: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc230: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc240: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc250: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc260: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc270: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc280: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc290: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc2a0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc2b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc2c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc2d0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc2e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc2f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc300: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc310: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc320: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc330: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc340: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc350: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc360: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc370: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc380: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc390: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc3a0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc3b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc3c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc3d0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc3e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc3f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc400: 70 bd 00 c1 63 6f 6d 6d 6f 6e 00 00 00 00 00 00 |p...common......|
ffbbc410: 6c 69 74 74 6c 65 2d 65 6e 64 69 61 6e 3f 3d 66 |little-endian?=f|
ffbbc420: 61 6c 73 65 00 72 65 61 6c 2d 6d 6f 64 65 3f 3d |alse.real-mode?=|
ffbbc430: 66 61 6c 73 65 00 61 75 74 6f 2d 62 6f 6f 74 3f |false.auto-boot?|
ffbbc440: 3d 74 72 75 65 00 64 69 61 67 2d 73 77 69 74 63 |=true.diag-switc|
ffbbc450: 68 3f 3d 66 61 6c 73 65 00 66 63 6f 64 65 2d 64 |h?=false.fcode-d|
ffbbc460: 65 62 75 67 3f 3d 66 61 6c 73 65 00 6f 65 6d 2d |ebug?=false.oem-|
ffbbc470: 62 61 6e 6e 65 72 3f 3d 66 61 6c 73 65 00 6f 65 |banner?=false.oe|
ffbbc480: 6d 2d 6c 6f 67 6f 3f 3d 66 61 6c 73 65 00 75 73 |m-logo?=false.us|
ffbbc490: 65 2d 6e 76 72 61 6d 72 63 3f 3d 66 61 6c 73 65 |e-nvramrc?=false|
ffbbc4a0: 00 75 73 65 2d 67 65 6e 65 72 69 63 3f 3d 66 61 |.use-generic?=fa|
ffbbc4b0: 6c 73 65 00 64 65 66 61 75 6c 74 2d 6d 61 63 2d |lse.default-mac-|
ffbbc4c0: 61 64 64 72 65 73 73 3f 3d 66 61 6c 73 65 00 73 |address?=false.s|
ffbbc4d0: 63 72 6f 6c 6c 2d 6c 6f 63 6b 3d 74 72 75 65 00 |croll-lock=true.|
ffbbc4e0: 73 6b 69 70 2d 6e 65 74 62 6f 6f 74 3f 3d 66 61 |skip-netboot?=fa|
ffbbc4f0: 6c 73 65 00 72 65 61 6c 2d 62 61 73 65 3d 2d 31 |lse.real-base=-1|
ffbbc500: 00 72 65 61 6c 2d 73 69 7a 65 3d 2d 31 00 6c 6f |.real-size=-1.lo|
ffbbc510: 61 64 2d 62 61 73 65 3d 30 78 38 30 30 30 30 30 |ad-base=0x800000|
ffbbc520: 00 76 69 72 74 2d 62 61 73 65 3d 2d 31 00 76 69 |.virt-base=-1.vi|
ffbbc530: 72 74 2d 73 69 7a 65 3d 2d 31 00 6c 6f 67 67 65 |rt-size=-1.logge|
ffbbc540: 72 2d 62 61 73 65 3d 2d 31 00 6c 6f 67 67 65 72 |r-base=-1.logger|
ffbbc550: 2d 73 69 7a 65 3d 2d 31 00 70 63 69 2d 70 72 6f |-size=-1.pci-pro|
ffbbc560: 62 65 2d 6d 61 73 6b 3d 2d 31 00 73 63 72 65 65 |be-mask=-1.scree|
ffbbc570: 6e 2d 23 63 6f 6c 75 6d 6e 73 3d 31 30 30 00 73 |n-#columns=100.s|
ffbbc580: 63 72 65 65 6e 2d 23 72 6f 77 73 3d 34 30 00 73 |creen-#rows=40.s|
ffbbc590: 65 6c 66 74 65 73 74 2d 23 6d 65 67 73 3d 30 00 |elftest-#megs=0.|
ffbbc5a0: 62 6f 6f 74 2d 76 6f 6c 75 6d 65 3d 33 00 67 6d |boot-volume=3.gm|
ffbbc5b0: 74 2d 6f 66 66 73 65 74 3d 30 00 62 6f 6f 74 2d |t-offset=0.boot-|
ffbbc5c0: 64 65 76 69 63 65 3d 68 64 3a 2c 5c 5c 3a 74 62 |device=hd:,\\:tb|
ffbbc5d0: 78 69 00 62 6f 6f 74 2d 66 69 6c 65 3d 00 62 6f |xi.boot-file=.bo|
ffbbc5e0: 6f 74 2d 73 63 72 65 65 6e 3d 73 63 72 65 65 6e |ot-screen=screen|
ffbbc5f0: 00 63 6f 6e 73 6f 6c 65 2d 73 63 72 65 65 6e 3d |.console-screen=|
ffbbc600: 73 63 72 65 65 6e 00 64 69 61 67 2d 64 65 76 69 |screen.diag-devi|
ffbbc610: 63 65 3d 65 6e 65 74 00 64 69 61 67 2d 66 69 6c |ce=enet.diag-fil|
ffbbc620: 65 3d 2c 64 69 61 67 73 00 69 6e 70 75 74 2d 64 |e=,diags.input-d|
ffbbc630: 65 76 69 63 65 3d 6b 65 79 62 6f 61 72 64 00 6f |evice=keyboard.o|
ffbbc640: 75 74 70 75 74 2d 64 65 76 69 63 65 3d 73 63 72 |utput-device=scr|
ffbbc650: 65 65 6e 00 69 6e 70 75 74 2d 64 65 76 69 63 65 |een.input-device|
ffbbc660: 2d 31 3d 2f 69 70 63 00 6f 75 74 70 75 74 2d 64 |-1=/ipc.output-d|
ffbbc670: 65 76 69 63 65 2d 31 3d 2f 69 70 63 00 6d 6f 75 |evice-1=/ipc.mou|
ffbbc680: 73 65 2d 64 65 76 69 63 65 3d 6d 6f 75 73 65 00 |se-device=mouse.|
ffbbc690: 6f 65 6d 2d 62 61 6e 6e 65 72 3d 00 6f 65 6d 2d |oem-banner=.oem-|
ffbbc6a0: 6c 6f 67 6f 3d 00 6e 76 72 61 6d 72 63 3d 00 62 |logo=.nvramrc=.b|
ffbbc6b0: 6f 6f 74 2d 63 6f 6d 6d 61 6e 64 3d 6d 61 63 2d |oot-command=mac-|
ffbbc6c0: 62 6f 6f 74 00 64 65 66 61 75 6c 74 2d 63 6c 69 |boot.default-cli|
ffbbc6d0: 65 6e 74 2d 69 70 3d 00 64 65 66 61 75 6c 74 2d |ent-ip=.default-|
ffbbc6e0: 73 65 72 76 65 72 2d 69 70 3d 00 64 65 66 61 75 |server-ip=.defau|
ffbbc6f0: 6c 74 2d 67 61 74 65 77 61 79 2d 69 70 3d 00 64 |lt-gateway-ip=.d|
ffbbc700: 65 66 61 75 6c 74 2d 73 75 62 6e 65 74 2d 6d 61 |efault-subnet-ma|
ffbbc710: 73 6b 3d 00 64 65 66 61 75 6c 74 2d 72 6f 75 74 |sk=.default-rout|
ffbbc720: 65 72 2d 69 70 3d 00 62 6f 6f 74 2d 73 63 72 69 |er-ip=.boot-scri|
ffbbc730: 70 74 3d 00 61 61 70 6c 2c 70 63 69 3d 2f 40 66 |pt=.aapl,pci=/@f|
ffbbc740: 30 30 30 30 30 30 30 2f 40 31 30 ff 01 52 32 41 |0000000/@10..R2A|
ffbbc750: 44 ff 01 5f fb 82 ff 81 01 90 ff 81 81 ff 81 01 |D.._............|
ffbbc760: 62 ff 81 08 36 1a 07 80 08 20 ff 81 01 30 ff 81 |b...6.... ...0..|
ffbbc770: 01 20 04 38 04 57 ff 81 01 03 ff 81 01 05 04 38 |. .8.W.........8|
ffbbc780: 07 80 ff 81 01 01 ff 81 18 ff 01 00 62 6f 6f 74 |............boot|
ffbbc790: 2d 61 72 67 73 3d 00 61 61 70 6c 2c 74 64 6d 2d |-args=.aapl,tdm-|
ffbbc7a0: 75 6e 69 74 73 3d 00 72 61 6d 2d 73 69 7a 65 3d |units=.ram-size=|
ffbbc7b0: 30 78 34 30 30 30 30 30 30 30 00 70 6c 61 74 66 |0x40000000.platf|
ffbbc7c0: 6f 72 6d 2d 75 75 69 64 3d ff 06 10 ff 01 80 ff |orm-uuid=.......|
ffbbc7d0: 02 11 24 6f 1e 7a 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |..$o.z..........|
ffbbc7e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc7f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc800: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc810: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc820: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc830: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc840: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc850: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc860: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc870: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbd000: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd010: a0 1e 00 52 41 50 4c 2c 4d 61 63 4f 53 37 35 00 |...RAPL,MacOS75.|
ffbbd020: 00 00 4f 48 00 00 00 00 1b 88 20 cc 4e 75 4d 63 |..OH...... .NuMc|
ffbbd030: a8 00 00 00 cc 0a cc 0a 00 00 00 00 00 02 63 00 |..............c.|
ffbbd040: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbd090: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 66 66 00 00 00 00 |..........ff....|
ffbbd0a0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 25 00 00 00 00 00 |..........%.....|
ffbbd0b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd0c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd0d0: 00 70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |.p..............|
ffbbd0e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbd460: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbd510: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd520: de ad be ef de ad be ef de ad be ef de ad be ef |................|
ffbbd530: a1 15 00 81 41 50 4c 2c 4f 53 58 50 61 6e 69 63 |....APL,OSXPanic|
ffbbd540: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd550: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbdb60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdb70: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdb80: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdb90: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdba0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdbb0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdbc0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdbd0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdbe0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdbf0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdc00: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdc10: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdc20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdc30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdc40: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdc50: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdc60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdc70: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdc80: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdc90: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdca0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdcb0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdcc0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdcd0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdce0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdcf0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd00: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd10: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd40: 7f 45 00 2c 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 |.E.,wwwwwwwwwwww|
ffbbdd50: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd70: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd80: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd90: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdda0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbddb0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbddc0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbddd0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdde0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbddf0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde00: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde10: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde40: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde50: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde70: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde80: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde90: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdea0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdeb0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdec0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbded0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdee0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdef0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf00: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf10: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf40: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf50: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf70: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf80: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf90: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdfa0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdfb0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdfc0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdfd0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdfe0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdff0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|

  From what I'm seeing there, it doesn't appear to be storing the parameters we're looking for.  There's what appears to be entries for text mode size, possibly related to default telnet behavior?  Is it stored in the PRAM then?  One thing I've always wanted to be able to do, you'll recall I mentioned about hoping for some kind of friendly 'pre-boot' PRAM/NVRAM editor, is to force a particular resolution to be saved for the next boot without having to be purely at the mercy of the initial auto-detection.  Even Open Firmware displays at the last known good resolution that was stored, which can be really annoying if you want to view a large log and it happens to be displaying at 640x480!

  I also got the weird NTSC-related resolutions somewhere along the way with one of the ROMs.  SwitchRes automatically stores a new monitor profile every time it thinks a different monitor has been connected, so I can view that list like a historical record and see what kind of odd things happened even when it would boot to a blank screen at the desktop.  This is how I was able to determine that DVI was switching to a completely crap mode at the desktop - SwitchRes recorded an entry for 32x32 black and white mode, which is certainly a far cry from any typical 'slightly off' 1920x1080 timing!

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #496 on: April 21, 2018, 08:51:45 PM »
A couple of additional observations:

1. If the desktop ends up with the bad resolution switch occurring, at that point it can be fixed by temporarily disabling the Monitors control panel and then deleting the Monitors Prefs file and rebooting.  Once the problem is triggered the first time by the combination of everything which causes it, the Monitors control panel is what keeps triggering the bad switch at the desktop from thereafter until I intervene.

2. I ran CineBench's "OpenGL HW-L" benchmark test.  Two things occurred - first, and almost immediately, the known 'rainbow pixel snow' issue appeared, which is supposed to be a problem with the ATI ROM setting too aggressive a VRAM clock.  This is hard-coded into the physical ROM, and I don't know if there is a workaround without some means of editing and re-flashing the ROM.  Secondly, very shortly after the 'pixel snow' began, the screen blanked out and got itself locked into the bad desktop resolution after reboot.  What I've found is if I get good display at the desktop, and the system reports 1920x1080, if you then actually pick the 1920x1080 resolution from the list in SwitchRes or the Monitors control panel, it immediately ends up in the junk mode.  I gather that this situation would occur if any software, such as a game, forces a mode switch and then tries to set it back again upon exit.  I'm not really interested in games fortunately, but I wouldn't want to leave out the possibility entirely.

  In addition to a desire to force a certain video mode at initial boot, it would be nice if the Monitors Prefs file could be overwritten automatically too so it never attempts to switch modes at the desktop once a good boot resolution is established.  SwitchRes can force a mode at the desktop, but as it stands cannot force a workable 1920x1080 mode on my current hardware config.  It has been a dream for as long as I've been toying with Macs that a desired resolution could be forced every boot and not upset by a PRAM/NVRAM/PMU reset.  Even under ideal circumstances it has been incredibly frustrating when you get a system doing exactly what you want it to do and yet it gets fouled up at random by the various resets, especially when it involves multiple monitors.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #497 on: April 21, 2018, 09:28:44 PM »
  One other thing I've been wondering about, with all these Mac OS ROM file versions flying around, can we implement a version number scheme to clearly show which edition of the modified file we are using?  The version potentially shows up in the "About This Computer" window, System Profiler, Finder windows, and the file info dialog box.  Even if it were simply a comment in the text field in the file info dialog box that would be great, and that field could include a simple highlight list of the specific mods applied.  I'm thinking we should keep the original file version number it's sourced from but add something specific to say it is for the Mini, and preferably have an alpha/beta sequence number tacked on.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #498 on: April 21, 2018, 09:50:09 PM »
Quote
The thing is, I bought my Mini for $20, it's a nice little toy, and it didn't take me long to hack out the OS 9 drivers for the R9200, but I'm just not looking to invest a bunch of time in decoding the 'NDRV' to work better with some displays.

I just wanted to add a special thanks for your invaluable input in the Video arena.  I look at the mini in a totally different way these days;  your efforts and the efforts of so many have made this an amazing little machine when running Mac OS 9; I literally used to hate the G4 mini, laughing at it, giving them away to customers for 5 year olds to learn reading and math. I remember, at one point, having a milk crate full of them from a buyout after selling off the Power supplies and thinking how ugly they were.  Now I think they look so cool,simple, perfect.  I have developed a disdain for loud G4 towers and this is just what the doctor ordered. I plan on hooking up a FW audio interface next weekend and finally doing some real world tests on then mini in OS 9 within a DAW and the video acceleration is a must. So thank you again, don't ever feel obligated, many will benifit from what you have already done.

Quote
I only put the time into the Mini I did in order to figure how the OS 9 drivers linked and loaded for ATI cards, because one day I would like to do register level emulation of 3D accelerated graphics for Qemu-System-PPC.
Unfortunately, I don't emulation will ever work for a DAW, too much need for real disk I/O, direct port access, audio engines HATE emulation and check a whole bunch and fail to load :(  so again, we become the benifactors of this great side-effect of OS 9 natively booting on a mini.

Quote
20 years from now, most of this hardware will be gone, or non-working, qemu will endure and allow people to use only Mac PPC applications.
Yeah, that's what keep saying, but I keep seeing 25 year old equipment come in my store here in Southern CA that looks new and passes all the original diagnostics; I think G4 hardware will be around another 20 years or more.

Quote
Doesn't mean someone else won't take up the fight with the 'NDRV' issues, I just got it working as well as it can with the 4 displays I keep around, and I don't really see a need to invest more time into a $20 computer.

Yes, others may build upon these success stories, and I thank ALL who have helped get us this far

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #499 on: April 22, 2018, 07:09:42 AM »
  One other thing I've been wondering about, with all these Mac OS ROM file versions flying around, can we implement a version number scheme to clearly show which edition of the modified file we are using?  The version potentially shows up in the "About This Computer" window, System Profiler, Finder windows, and the file info dialog box.  Even if it were simply a comment in the text field in the file info dialog box that would be great, and that field could include a simple highlight list of the specific mods applied.  I'm thinking we should keep the original file version number it's sourced from but add something specific to say it is for the Mini, and preferably have an alpha/beta sequence number tacked on.

I did something like this with a previous build system. Honestly, it’s a huge pain, and it doesn’t give you any more information about the build than you would get from a link to a forum post. It would be more useful to post a source diff alongside each ROM.

Offline macStuff

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #500 on: April 22, 2018, 10:50:13 AM »
20 years from now i bet my sawtooth will still be running! lol
my windows pc running windows 10 right now, i just realized last night, its running off a power supply
from a g4 ! 2018 and the psu is from 1999, lol 20 year old PSU keeps on going and going and going
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #501 on: April 22, 2018, 12:25:11 PM »
I recently fired up my 8MHz Turbo XT PC from 1985 - ran like a charm!  20MB hard drive and original NEC Multisync 9-pin monitor (that monitor was awesome - supported CGA but also 640x480 VGA with alternate15-to-9 pin cable.)  I played one of my all time favorite games on it - Digger.  Still works like I remember!

  Alright, we're drifting off topic a bit.  But it's always fun to get nostalgic.

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #502 on: April 23, 2018, 03:38:36 AM »
I recently fired up my 8MHz Turbo XT PC from 1985 - ran like a charm!  20MB hard drive and original NEC Multisync 9-pin monitor (that monitor was awesome - supported CGA but also 640x480 VGA with alternate15-to-9 pin cable.)  I played one of my all time favorite games on it - Digger.  Still works like I remember!

  Alright, we're drifting off topic a bit.  But it's always fun to get nostalgic.

As if OS 9 weren't nostalgic :P

Anyway, I tested the Bugsy( R9200 PCI Retail ) and Merlin( R9200 eMac ) 'NDRV's. No luck, they are not compatible with the Mini.

I also went back and tested the fallowing 'NDRV's for the RockHopper2( Mini ). Just to make sure I did it correct the first time( 10.3.8, 10.3.9, 10.4, 10.4.11, 10.5.1, 10.5.8 ). Same issue, any change to the screen res or bit depth will result in a grey screen with only the mouse pointer active.

We just got lucky that 10.3.7 had a working 'NDRV' for OS 9, as the change to the 'NDRV' that causes the "Grey Screen" issue came with 10.3.8 and seems to persist all the way to 10.5.8.

I know for people having display issues, it doesn't feel like we got lucky, but somewhat working, is better than this "Grey Screen" issue.

Whenever ELN may have time, we could try and look at the 'NDVR's from 10.3.7 and 10.3.8 to see if we can't find the changes made that cause the "Grey Screen" issue. I think it would be worthwhile, as we maybe able to get the 'NDRV' from 10.5.8 working if we can figure the changes.

ATI addressed the issues with displays from 2005-2009 with the Mini by updating the 'NDRV', that was the primary way, so we maybe able to resolve some issues this way.

I just don't understand 'NDRV's well enough to know how to decode them or edit them, but it would be something worthwhile to learn if ELN feels like teaching. I've gone over the documentation in the Writing PCI Drivers for the Mac OS, but it doesn't offer anything useful to me.

With ATI graphics 'NDRV's they are very specific to the hardware, and even the layout of the ports on the card,  as the Merlin( eMac ) and the RockHopper2( Mini ) are the same Device ID ( 5962 ), but each needs it's own 'NDRV'.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #503 on: April 23, 2018, 08:19:50 AM »
Apple's documentation of the Copland PCI driver architecture is so vague that it's nearly useless.

darthnVader, I'd really like to have your ndrv work and documentation in one place before I take a dive into it. Got a repo somewhere?



So, patchpef! This script makes it easy to reproducibly patch PEF files with a quick turnaround time.

First, get it here. You will need to compile vasm, a portable multi-architecture assembler. https://github.com/elliotnunn/patchpef

The simplest patchpef command is this. It will just copy the PEF unchanged (unless it's really weird, like the MixedMode library).
Code: [Select]
patchpef.py INPUT-FILE OUTPUT-FILE
You should know that patchpef includes my macresources library, which lets it do this:
Code: [Select]
patchpef.py INPUT-RSRC-FILE//ndrv/299 OUTPUT-FILE
From here, you add arguments in pairs.
  • The first argument in a pair is an offset within the code section, like "0x124". If the binary includes debug symbols (relatively rare), you can use them: "MyFunction+0x10". Wildcards also work: "MPCreate*+0x4". To insert the same code just before the return instruction of every function, use "*-0x4".

  • The second argument specifies some assembly code. You need to remember to enclose this in shell quotes. Semicolons are replaced with newlines, and the assembler expects all directives to be preceded by whitespace. Specifying " li r3, 0; li r4, 1" would insert those instructions into the position you specified with the in argument, massaging the original code to give all of the original instructions a chance to execute (this process is logged extensively, albeit cryptically). There are several assembler macros specified within the script that help you to save registers and spam the NanoKernel log.

    Alternatively, you can use one of my all-in-one arguments. Passing ":r3" as the second argument simply dumps r3 to the log, and "::r3" dumps several bytes of hex starting at r3 (useful when you can't figure out a function pointer). Lastly, ":hello world" will print an arbitrary string to the log.

    I have left a few features unmentioned here. If you can't do something that you want to, let me know!

It might not look like a whole lot, but patchpef has enabled me to solve some problems, like the CPU Plugin crash, *very* quickly. I use it in conjunction with a disassembly tool like MacNosy, IDA or Hopper. I will leave you with a mundane, unthreatening line pulled at random from my shell history.

Code: [Select]
patchpef.py MixedMode ../mac-rom/Misc/GoNativeResources//ncod/1/MixedMode 0x10 :r3
Happy hacking!

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #504 on: April 23, 2018, 10:09:15 AM »
Apple's documentation of the Copland PCI driver architecture is so vague that it's nearly useless.

darthnVader, I'd really like to have your ndrv work and documentation in one place before I take a dive into it. Got a repo somewhere?



So, patchpef! This script makes it easy to reproducibly patch PEF files with a quick turnaround time.

First, get it here. You will need to compile vasm, a portable multi-architecture assembler. https://github.com/elliotnunn/patchpef

The simplest patchpef command is this. It will just copy the PEF unchanged (unless it's really weird, like the MixedMode library).
Code: [Select]
patchpef.py INPUT-FILE OUTPUT-FILE
You should know that patchpef includes my macresources library, which lets it do this:
Code: [Select]
patchpef.py INPUT-RSRC-FILE//ndrv/299 OUTPUT-FILE
From here, you add arguments in pairs.
  • The first argument in a pair is an offset within the code section, like "0x124". If the binary includes debug symbols (relatively rare), you can use them: "MyFunction+0x10". Wildcards also work: "MPCreate*+0x4". To insert the same code just before the return instruction of every function, use "*-0x4".

  • The second argument specifies some assembly code. You need to remember to enclose this in shell quotes. Semicolons are replaced with newlines, and the assembler expects all directives to be preceded by whitespace. Specifying " li r3, 0; li r4, 1" would insert those instructions into the position you specified with the in argument, massaging the original code to give all of the original instructions a chance to execute (this process is logged extensively, albeit cryptically). There are several assembler macros specified within the script that help you to save registers and spam the NanoKernel log.

    Alternatively, you can use one of my all-in-one arguments. Passing ":r3" as the second argument simply dumps r3 to the log, and "::r3" dumps several bytes of hex starting at r3 (useful when you can't figure out a function pointer). Lastly, ":hello world" will print an arbitrary string to the log.

    I have left a few features unmentioned here. If you can't do something that you want to, let me know!

It might not look like a whole lot, but patchpef has enabled me to solve some problems, like the CPU Plugin crash, *very* quickly. I use it in conjunction with a disassembly tool like MacNosy, IDA or Hopper. I will leave you with a mundane, unthreatening line pulled at random from my shell history.

Code: [Select]
patchpef.py MixedMode ../mac-rom/Misc/GoNativeResources//ncod/1/MixedMode 0x10 :r3
Happy hacking!

It's all just hacks done with Hexedit and Resedit.

Open /System/Library/Extensions/AppleNDRV/ATIRuntimeDriver.bundle/Contents/MacOS/ATIRuntimeDriver in Hexedit.

Search for the " compatible" property of the ATI cards display node in ASCII. I.E. Command+F RockHopper2. Then search for the next "Joy", as in Joy!peffpwpc. Note the offset in Hexedit, on the left.

This will be the beginning  of the next 'NDRV', so now find the previous Joy!, this will be the beginning of the 'NDRV' that is for RockHopper2. Copy everything from this Joy! to the next Joy!, the one we noted the offset of. I.E. insert the curser before the first Joy! that begins the 'NDRV' and drag it to the offset at the end so that the hex is selected in Hexedit. Do not include the second Joy!, we don't need it, that's the next 'NDRV', we only need one, the one at the beginning.

While the hex we want to copy is highlighted hit Command+C, then Command+N for a new file, then Command+V to paste the 'NDRV' we copied into the new file. Then Save As...I normally name the file like this:RockHopper2(10.x.x).ndrv. So if I'm looking at the one from 10.4.11 for the Mini, it would be RockHopper2(10.4.11).ndrv.

Now we need Resedit with Forker, as the 'NDRV' lives in the Data Fork and we need to edit a few things in the resource fork. You can replace the Data Fork under OS 9 with Hexedit, but Hexedit for OS X will corrupt our driver, so it's best to just use Resedit with Forker.

I assume we could use Classic Mode here, but I just boot OS 9.

Open the file we created in Hexedit, RockHopper2(10.x.x).ndrv, in Resedit, Resedit will complain that it has no resource fork and will want to create one. Just say OK, and open the file, you'll see the <DF> ( Data Fork ) and the one Resource Resedit created. We only need the Data Fork, one it and copy the one resource in contains, don't open the resource itself, just highlight it and copy it.

Next we need to open the driver we want to modify, the ATI Via driver created by iMic for the Via Radeon9200M2 in the iBook G4. I think the file he modified was originally called the ATI Driver Update.

Open the <DF> and paste the data into it, Resedit will ask if you want to replace the ID with this one, and you do, so say yes. Note the length in bytes of this ID, on the right.

Now open the cfrg and open ID 0, scroll down to 1(member and edit the length to match the length in bytes of the Data Fork. The edit the member name to match the " compatible" property from our display 'NDRV', I.E. ATY,RockHopper2.

Close the driver and save it, place it in the extensions folder and reboot, you may need to remove any previous version of this driver.

The 2D Acceleration and 3D acceleration  where a matter of replacing the 5960 device ID's with the Device ID we want to use. I.E. 5961 or 5962 in three files, the ATI Graphics Accelerator( Two resources we need to change Accl one ID 4 GraphicsAccelerationR6, find 5961 in Hex, should be just after 2C00 in hex, change it to 5962, find the next 5961, again just after 2C00 in hex, change it to 5962. Next open the intr resource and open ID 0 GAInterfacePro, again search for 5961, just after 2C00 and replace it with 5962.

Close the driver and save it.

Open the ATI 8500 3D Accelerator, open the Data Fork, open ID 128 "Data Fork". Search for 5960 just after 2C00, replace it with, you guested it, 5962. Find the next 5960 after 2C00, replace it too. You should find two total after 2C00.

Close the file and save it.

Open the ATI Resource Manager. Open the Data Fork, ID 128, and replace only 5961 after 2C00 with 5962.(Six of them I think)

I think that was it, maybe I should only change the 5960 in the data fork of the Res.Man. that come after 2C00, I'll have to check that and see if things work better.



« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 12:21:52 PM by darthnVader »

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #505 on: April 23, 2018, 04:47:07 PM »
As if OS 9 weren't nostalgic :P

"wtf, it is still in development from what i hear."
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline mrhappy

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #506 on: April 23, 2018, 08:22:46 PM »

"wtf, it is still in development from what i hear."

Sure seems like it!! ;D ;D ;D

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #507 on: April 24, 2018, 08:21:16 AM »
DarthnVader,

That is an awesome walk thru and I did not realize it was sooo easy to modify video drivers for OS 9... NOT.

It is very clever and a priceless post for those who want to experiment "stealing" code and inserting it into other drivers, quite brilliant, thanks for the insight.  I am guessing Mactron was up all night at the M.A.R.L. facility copying and pasting code, then testing on his many G4s.... hehe

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #508 on: April 24, 2018, 09:36:42 AM »
Open /System/Library/Extensions/AppleNDRV/ATIRuntimeDriver.bundle/Contents/MacOS/ATIRuntimeDriver in Hexedit.

Great writeup! Could you please post all the ATIRuntimeDrivers you've gotten your hands on, as well as the exact ATI extensions you modified?

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #509 on: April 24, 2018, 12:44:04 PM »
I edited the write up, I really need to take better notes, meaning I should make notes, that would be better than trying to remember everything. 8)

ELN, I'll have to upload the files, everything is spread across 6 Macs :P

Basically it's best to use the last Mac Radeon Update from 2005 to get the last drivers for OS 9.2.2 that ATI offered. It doesn't include the ATI Driver Update the iMic hacked into an NDRV for the iBook G4, but the ATI ROM Xtender is really the same thing. The cfrg resource needs two members, I'm not sure what the second member does, but it does something, and the data fork should be replaced with the 'NDRV' you want to use, as well as the first member of the cfrg edited as I outlined.

We'll have to look close at the Second Member from iMic's ATI Via Driver to see what it really does?

You can get the Via Driver from the RockHopper2 download I have in the Video sections, tho I'm sure you are already using it. ;D

https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/ATI_Radeon_Retail_Installer/ati-retail-9-2-2-jan2005.hqx


The ATI Runtime Driver( RockHopper2 Updates seem to stop at 10.4.11 ) can be extracted from any PPC OS X update with Pacifist.

https://www.charlessoft.com/

I hack the ATI Rom Extender to work, so it would be nice if we could figure out how to add all three of the unsupported 'NDRV's into one Rom Xtender. I know that can be done, we just have to add members correctly to it. Also, the member size, can't figure that number out?

« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 12:54:21 PM by darthnVader »

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #510 on: April 25, 2018, 04:29:52 PM »
  That's really neat how the Mini and eMac are laid out almost exactly the same.  For some reason I never knew AirPort Extreme was a form of PCI device - perhaps I should try to graft a real PCI slot on to that?  Is there any pinout documented for that AirPort Extreme connector type?


I haven't read to the end of the thread yet, so my apologies if this has already been covered.   Also apologies for topic drift.   MacOS Plus I'd be happy to continue this in PM after this posting.

I looked into this a few years back.  I wanted to add gigabit ethernet to the G4 Minis.   I never executed, but here was my plan.   I think I went as far as getting the Airport Extreme module or whatever card plugs in that modified PCI slot.

We don't know the pinout of the sort-of mini-PCI slot.   We do know that it uses a Broadcom based card.  We don't know the pinout of hte Broadcom chip on the card (those datasheet often come with NDAs).   We do know that that Broadcom chip is/was used on vanilla PCI cards.   We do know the pinout of plain old vanilla PCI slots.

Get a continuity meter.  Get the card that goes in the Mini G4 slot.  Get a PCI card based on teh same Broadcom chip as the Mini-G4 card.    Trace the PCI signals from the PCI card edge to the Broadcom chip (desolder the chip if it's a BGA for easy access to pads).   Now you know the pinout of the Broadcom chip.   Trace the signals from the Broadcom chip on the Mini-G4 card to the connector on the Mini-G4 card.    Apply the transitive property.

Now you know the pinout of the G4 Mini's mini-PCI slot.    My thinking was that it would be fairly simple to build a RealTek 8169 based card for it, although I was flumoxed how I would bring the cable out of the box.   Even the Kensington Security slot is teeny tiny.   I wanted to use it for a backup server.   But then I bought a G4 Mini on Ebay and the seller sent me a Late 2009 Core2Duo and that solved that problem. 

This was many years ago, when the cost of a Core2Duo Mini was still substantial to my finances.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #511 on: April 25, 2018, 05:35:21 PM »
Two other quick thoughts.   

First, probably useless, but about 14 years ago I saw a very similar problem to the one MacOS Plus is having. Mine was with Radeon 7000 cards connected to an old Intellicolor 20 CRT monitor.   I always assumed that something about the cabling to that old monitor was causing the R7000 to think it was getting an EDID (or whatever the equivalent was) when it wasn't.    Adding back to back Mac to VGA and VGA to Mac adapters into the cable made the problem go away.

Second, based on a question a fellow asked over on the 68kmla forums...

The DVI port on the Minis is really two video ports -- the digital DVI pins and the analog VGA signal on the crossed tab-like pins.    Apparently they connect to different outputs of the 9200 graphics system.

There are adapters which will split a DVI connector into separate DVI-D and VGA outputs.   

Shouldn't it be possible with a little hacking to have 2 monitor support on the G4 Mini?   The iMacs based on Intrepid have 2 monitor support, so an example of the necessary firmware exists.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #512 on: April 25, 2018, 05:45:03 PM »

The DVI port on the Minis is really two video ports -- the digital DVI pins and the analog VGA signal on the crossed tab-like pins.    Apparently they connect to different outputs of the 9200 graphics system.

There are adapters which will split a DVI connector into separate DVI-D and VGA outputs.   

Shouldn't it be possible with a little hacking to have 2 monitor support on the G4 Mini?   The iMacs based on Intrepid have 2 monitor support, so an example of the necessary firmware exists.

I will raise again the cost of a matrox dual Head  :(
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matrox-dualhead2go-/323222910668
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #513 on: April 25, 2018, 09:17:21 PM »
@trag:  I have one of those DVI/VGA splitters.  The Mini refuses to enable both outputs at the same time.  Presumably this is hard-coded into the Radeon ROM, but it may very well only have one physical data output path to the two output driver ICs and preferencing logic for the port detection lines.

  When I have more time I'll respond about the PCI stuff.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #514 on: April 26, 2018, 03:22:50 AM »
I had some limited success with the Bugsy 'NDRV' from the ATI ROM Xtender for the 9200 Hot Fix.

On a VGA display it would list every VGA mode the 9200 could display @4:3, and every refresh rate.

This could be used as a work a round for those having display issues with the Mini, it's less than ideal, as choosing a mode your display can't sync to or having a 3D game changing the display mode could be problematic.

I haven't tested it with 16:9 displays, or Digital, so YMMV.

 https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#9200rom

To test it, we resort to a dirty Open Firmware hack:

Code: [Select]
dev agp/@10/@0
" ATY,Bugsy" encode-string " compatible" property
bye

This allows us to use the 'NDRV' of Bugsy from the ATI ROM Xtender v1.2 installed from the Hot Fix, without having to remove the RockHopper2 'NDRV' I made for the Mini.


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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #515 on: April 26, 2018, 04:58:52 AM »
Apparently they connect to different outputs of the 9200 graphics system.

holy crap.

and a warm welcome. ;)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #516 on: April 27, 2018, 11:07:30 AM »
If you take a look in the Mac OS 7.6 CD image, there is a "Shut Down" application in the Apple Menu Items folder of the CD. I have taken this app and placed it in the Utilities folder of the Mac mini running OS 9, then assigned the application to a fn key (I chose F6). Now if the mouse cursor gets stuck, I press F6 and the Mac mini will shut down safely.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline Daniel

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #517 on: April 27, 2018, 11:53:46 AM »
Here's the output:

Code: [Select]
ffbbc000: 5a 82 00 02 6e 76 72 61 6d 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |Z...nvram.......|
ffbbc010: c1 d3 89 f1 00 00 02 cd 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc020: 5f 45 00 3e 73 79 73 74 65 6d 00 00 00 00 00 00 |_E.>system......|
ffbbc030: 00 02 00 00 63 61 73 68 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |....cash........|
ffbbc040: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc050: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc060: 00 00 00 00 be 23 c4 82 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |.....#..........|
ffbbc070: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc080: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc090: 52 48 55 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |RHU.............|
ffbbc0a0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc0b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc0c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc0d0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc0e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc0f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc100: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc110: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc120: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc130: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc140: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc150: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 59 4d 35 30 35 46 44 50 |........YM505FDP|
ffbbc160: 52 48 55 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |RHU.............|
ffbbc170: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc180: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc190: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc1a0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc1b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc1c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc1d0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc1e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc1f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc200: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc210: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc220: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc230: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc240: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc250: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc260: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc270: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc280: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc290: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc2a0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc2b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc2c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc2d0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc2e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc2f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc300: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc310: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc320: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc330: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc340: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc350: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc360: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc370: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc380: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc390: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc3a0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc3b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc3c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc3d0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc3e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc3f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc400: 70 bd 00 c1 63 6f 6d 6d 6f 6e 00 00 00 00 00 00 |p...common......|
ffbbc410: 6c 69 74 74 6c 65 2d 65 6e 64 69 61 6e 3f 3d 66 |little-endian?=f|
ffbbc420: 61 6c 73 65 00 72 65 61 6c 2d 6d 6f 64 65 3f 3d |alse.real-mode?=|
ffbbc430: 66 61 6c 73 65 00 61 75 74 6f 2d 62 6f 6f 74 3f |false.auto-boot?|
ffbbc440: 3d 74 72 75 65 00 64 69 61 67 2d 73 77 69 74 63 |=true.diag-switc|
ffbbc450: 68 3f 3d 66 61 6c 73 65 00 66 63 6f 64 65 2d 64 |h?=false.fcode-d|
ffbbc460: 65 62 75 67 3f 3d 66 61 6c 73 65 00 6f 65 6d 2d |ebug?=false.oem-|
ffbbc470: 62 61 6e 6e 65 72 3f 3d 66 61 6c 73 65 00 6f 65 |banner?=false.oe|
ffbbc480: 6d 2d 6c 6f 67 6f 3f 3d 66 61 6c 73 65 00 75 73 |m-logo?=false.us|
ffbbc490: 65 2d 6e 76 72 61 6d 72 63 3f 3d 66 61 6c 73 65 |e-nvramrc?=false|
ffbbc4a0: 00 75 73 65 2d 67 65 6e 65 72 69 63 3f 3d 66 61 |.use-generic?=fa|
ffbbc4b0: 6c 73 65 00 64 65 66 61 75 6c 74 2d 6d 61 63 2d |lse.default-mac-|
ffbbc4c0: 61 64 64 72 65 73 73 3f 3d 66 61 6c 73 65 00 73 |address?=false.s|
ffbbc4d0: 63 72 6f 6c 6c 2d 6c 6f 63 6b 3d 74 72 75 65 00 |croll-lock=true.|
ffbbc4e0: 73 6b 69 70 2d 6e 65 74 62 6f 6f 74 3f 3d 66 61 |skip-netboot?=fa|
ffbbc4f0: 6c 73 65 00 72 65 61 6c 2d 62 61 73 65 3d 2d 31 |lse.real-base=-1|
ffbbc500: 00 72 65 61 6c 2d 73 69 7a 65 3d 2d 31 00 6c 6f |.real-size=-1.lo|
ffbbc510: 61 64 2d 62 61 73 65 3d 30 78 38 30 30 30 30 30 |ad-base=0x800000|
ffbbc520: 00 76 69 72 74 2d 62 61 73 65 3d 2d 31 00 76 69 |.virt-base=-1.vi|
ffbbc530: 72 74 2d 73 69 7a 65 3d 2d 31 00 6c 6f 67 67 65 |rt-size=-1.logge|
ffbbc540: 72 2d 62 61 73 65 3d 2d 31 00 6c 6f 67 67 65 72 |r-base=-1.logger|
ffbbc550: 2d 73 69 7a 65 3d 2d 31 00 70 63 69 2d 70 72 6f |-size=-1.pci-pro|
ffbbc560: 62 65 2d 6d 61 73 6b 3d 2d 31 00 73 63 72 65 65 |be-mask=-1.scree|
ffbbc570: 6e 2d 23 63 6f 6c 75 6d 6e 73 3d 31 30 30 00 73 |n-#columns=100.s|
ffbbc580: 63 72 65 65 6e 2d 23 72 6f 77 73 3d 34 30 00 73 |creen-#rows=40.s|
ffbbc590: 65 6c 66 74 65 73 74 2d 23 6d 65 67 73 3d 30 00 |elftest-#megs=0.|
ffbbc5a0: 62 6f 6f 74 2d 76 6f 6c 75 6d 65 3d 33 00 67 6d |boot-volume=3.gm|
ffbbc5b0: 74 2d 6f 66 66 73 65 74 3d 30 00 62 6f 6f 74 2d |t-offset=0.boot-|
ffbbc5c0: 64 65 76 69 63 65 3d 68 64 3a 2c 5c 5c 3a 74 62 |device=hd:,\\:tb|
ffbbc5d0: 78 69 00 62 6f 6f 74 2d 66 69 6c 65 3d 00 62 6f |xi.boot-file=.bo|
ffbbc5e0: 6f 74 2d 73 63 72 65 65 6e 3d 73 63 72 65 65 6e |ot-screen=screen|
ffbbc5f0: 00 63 6f 6e 73 6f 6c 65 2d 73 63 72 65 65 6e 3d |.console-screen=|
ffbbc600: 73 63 72 65 65 6e 00 64 69 61 67 2d 64 65 76 69 |screen.diag-devi|
ffbbc610: 63 65 3d 65 6e 65 74 00 64 69 61 67 2d 66 69 6c |ce=enet.diag-fil|
ffbbc620: 65 3d 2c 64 69 61 67 73 00 69 6e 70 75 74 2d 64 |e=,diags.input-d|
ffbbc630: 65 76 69 63 65 3d 6b 65 79 62 6f 61 72 64 00 6f |evice=keyboard.o|
ffbbc640: 75 74 70 75 74 2d 64 65 76 69 63 65 3d 73 63 72 |utput-device=scr|
ffbbc650: 65 65 6e 00 69 6e 70 75 74 2d 64 65 76 69 63 65 |een.input-device|
ffbbc660: 2d 31 3d 2f 69 70 63 00 6f 75 74 70 75 74 2d 64 |-1=/ipc.output-d|
ffbbc670: 65 76 69 63 65 2d 31 3d 2f 69 70 63 00 6d 6f 75 |evice-1=/ipc.mou|
ffbbc680: 73 65 2d 64 65 76 69 63 65 3d 6d 6f 75 73 65 00 |se-device=mouse.|
ffbbc690: 6f 65 6d 2d 62 61 6e 6e 65 72 3d 00 6f 65 6d 2d |oem-banner=.oem-|
ffbbc6a0: 6c 6f 67 6f 3d 00 6e 76 72 61 6d 72 63 3d 00 62 |logo=.nvramrc=.b|
ffbbc6b0: 6f 6f 74 2d 63 6f 6d 6d 61 6e 64 3d 6d 61 63 2d |oot-command=mac-|
ffbbc6c0: 62 6f 6f 74 00 64 65 66 61 75 6c 74 2d 63 6c 69 |boot.default-cli|
ffbbc6d0: 65 6e 74 2d 69 70 3d 00 64 65 66 61 75 6c 74 2d |ent-ip=.default-|
ffbbc6e0: 73 65 72 76 65 72 2d 69 70 3d 00 64 65 66 61 75 |server-ip=.defau|
ffbbc6f0: 6c 74 2d 67 61 74 65 77 61 79 2d 69 70 3d 00 64 |lt-gateway-ip=.d|
ffbbc700: 65 66 61 75 6c 74 2d 73 75 62 6e 65 74 2d 6d 61 |efault-subnet-ma|
ffbbc710: 73 6b 3d 00 64 65 66 61 75 6c 74 2d 72 6f 75 74 |sk=.default-rout|
ffbbc720: 65 72 2d 69 70 3d 00 62 6f 6f 74 2d 73 63 72 69 |er-ip=.boot-scri|
ffbbc730: 70 74 3d 00 61 61 70 6c 2c 70 63 69 3d 2f 40 66 |pt=.aapl,pci=/@f|
ffbbc740: 30 30 30 30 30 30 30 2f 40 31 30 ff 01 52 32 41 |0000000/@10..R2A|
ffbbc750: 44 ff 01 5f fb 82 ff 81 01 90 ff 81 81 ff 81 01 |D.._............|
ffbbc760: 62 ff 81 08 36 1a 07 80 08 20 ff 81 01 30 ff 81 |b...6.... ...0..|
ffbbc770: 01 20 04 38 04 57 ff 81 01 03 ff 81 01 05 04 38 |. .8.W.........8|
ffbbc780: 07 80 ff 81 01 01 ff 81 18 ff 01 00 62 6f 6f 74 |............boot|
ffbbc790: 2d 61 72 67 73 3d 00 61 61 70 6c 2c 74 64 6d 2d |-args=.aapl,tdm-|
ffbbc7a0: 75 6e 69 74 73 3d 00 72 61 6d 2d 73 69 7a 65 3d |units=.ram-size=|
ffbbc7b0: 30 78 34 30 30 30 30 30 30 30 00 70 6c 61 74 66 |0x40000000.platf|
ffbbc7c0: 6f 72 6d 2d 75 75 69 64 3d ff 06 10 ff 01 80 ff |orm-uuid=.......|
ffbbc7d0: 02 11 24 6f 1e 7a 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |..$o.z..........|
ffbbc7e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc7f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc800: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc810: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc820: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc830: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc840: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc850: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc860: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc870: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc880: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc890: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc8a0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc8b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc8c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc8d0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc8e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc8f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc900: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc910: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc920: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc930: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc940: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc950: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc960: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc970: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc980: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc990: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc9a0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc9b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc9c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc9d0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc9e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbc9f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbca00: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbca10: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbca20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbca30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbca40: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbca50: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbca60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbca70: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbca80: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbca90: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbcaa0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbcab0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbcac0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbcad0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbcae0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbcec0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbcee0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbcf40: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbcf50: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbcf70: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbd000: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd010: a0 1e 00 52 41 50 4c 2c 4d 61 63 4f 53 37 35 00 |...RAPL,MacOS75.|
ffbbd020: 00 00 4f 48 00 00 00 00 1b 88 20 cc 4e 75 4d 63 |..OH...... .NuMc|
ffbbd030: a8 00 00 00 cc 0a cc 0a 00 00 00 00 00 02 63 00 |..............c.|
ffbbd040: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbd060: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbd090: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 66 66 00 00 00 00 |..........ff....|
ffbbd0a0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 25 00 00 00 00 00 |..........%.....|
ffbbd0b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd0c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd0d0: 00 70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |.p..............|
ffbbd0e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbd3b0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd3c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd3d0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbd3f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd400: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd410: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd420: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd430: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd440: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd450: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd460: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd470: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd480: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd490: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbd500: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd510: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd520: de ad be ef de ad be ef de ad be ef de ad be ef |................|
ffbbd530: a1 15 00 81 41 50 4c 2c 4f 53 58 50 61 6e 69 63 |....APL,OSXPanic|
ffbbd540: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd550: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbd560: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbdc90: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbdd20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd40: 7f 45 00 2c 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 |.E.,wwwwwwwwwwww|
ffbbdd50: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdd70: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
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ffbbddd0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdde0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbddf0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde00: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde10: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde40: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde50: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde70: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde80: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbde90: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdea0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdeb0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdec0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbded0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdee0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdef0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf00: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf10: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf20: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf30: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf40: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf50: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf60: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf70: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf80: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdf90: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdfa0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdfb0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdfc0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdfd0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdfe0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
ffbbdff0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|

  From what I'm seeing there, it doesn't appear to be storing the parameters we're looking for.  There's what appears to be entries for text mode size, possibly related to default telnet behavior?  Is it stored in the PRAM then?  One thing I've always wanted to be able to do, you'll recall I mentioned about hoping for some kind of friendly 'pre-boot' PRAM/NVRAM editor, is to force a particular resolution to be saved for the next boot without having to be purely at the mercy of the initial auto-detection.  Even Open Firmware displays at the last known good resolution that was stored, which can be really annoying if you want to view a large log and it happens to be displaying at 640x480!

  I also got the weird NTSC-related resolutions somewhere along the way with one of the ROMs.  SwitchRes automatically stores a new monitor profile every time it thinks a different monitor has been connected, so I can view that list like a historical record and see what kind of odd things happened even when it would boot to a blank screen at the desktop.  This is how I was able to determine that DVI was switching to a completely crap mode at the desktop - SwitchRes recorded an entry for 32x32 black and white mode, which is certainly a far cry from any typical 'slightly off' 1920x1080 timing!
That's weird. I assumed that nvram is where persistent changes would be stored. I am pretty sure that PRAM is a part of the nvram on PPC Macs. It would be right after the "RAPL,MacOS75" thing which indicates that that nvram partition belongs to Mac OS.

All those text entries at the start are the OF enviroment variables. They are readable with printenv and changable with setenv.

I suppose you could try looking at the OF screen device to see if there is anything useful there.
Code: [Select]
dev screen
ls
.properties
words
If you really want to look into this stuff, the PCI Driver Development Kit has a few tools in it. One lets you display the Name Registry and another one lets you read and write to pci devices manually. You might be able to get useful info there.

I am working on a graphical nvram patcher. I figured out how to embed a second program in a Mac OS ROM file so that  that program gets run instead of the Trampoline when the nvram is reset. The hard part is designing and programming a good-looking GUI that uses the OF Client Interface. It may be a while before I can do that part.

Sorry for taking so long. I just found this window open and realized I hadn't hit the post button.

Offline trag

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #518 on: April 27, 2018, 03:48:26 PM »
I don't know about on New World machines, but on X500, X600 PPC Macs, PRAM is stored in the (68HC05 based) CUDA chip (341S0788).  The NVRAM is stored on a separate SRAM chip which is not a custom Apple chip.  It's just whatever 32Kb (IIRC) SRAM Apple bought that week.

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #519 on: April 27, 2018, 10:14:35 PM »
I don't know about on New World machines, but on X500, X600 PPC Macs, PRAM is stored in the (68HC05 based) CUDA chip (341S0788).  The NVRAM is stored on a separate SRAM chip which is not a custom Apple chip.  It's just whatever 32Kb (IIRC) SRAM Apple bought that week.

Most of the unsupported systems use a AMD-0137.

OS 9 can't write to it, something else we should fix.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #520 on: April 28, 2018, 11:28:27 AM »
DarthnVader,
I am guessing Mactron was up all night at the M.A.R.L. facility copying and pasting code, then testing on his many G4s.... hehe
;D ;D ;D
Unfortunately this stuff is beyond my capabilities ...
... even it takes me some effort to follow some threads like this ...
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline solderwire

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #521 on: April 29, 2018, 09:43:50 PM »
Finally got Simplified Chinese version of 9.2.2 running on my Mac mini G4 ;)
Just replace display drivers, ROM file, and delete the Multiprocessing folder 8)
With an 120 GB hard drive, I installed Tiger on it, and I am planning to make tri-boot (OS 9, Tiger and Leopard) for software compatibilities.
And I also need to add some Chinese translation to the Mac OS ROM.
Mac mini G4 and iBook G3 (Dual USB)

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #522 on: April 30, 2018, 12:20:01 PM »
*** Interesting Update on Intermittent "Frozen Mouse" Issue ***

So, the mouse issue, at times the mini has an issue, as reported my many, where the mouse cursor is frozen in one position, yet the machine is not locked up and the mouse "click" still responds, yet mouse cannot move.

So rather than use my programmed shutdown F6 key (thanks Ross); I decided leave the mouse in the "frozen" mode and plug into the key board an original "white" Genuine single click apple mouse (into my genuine apple keyboard) and VIOLA... full mouse support !   The non-apple mouse still frozen with a working click and the apple mouse working 100% !

Ok... now the weirdness...  I decided then, without rebooting... to unplug the Dead aftermarket mouse from USB1 and put the Genuine apple on USB1... I really expected it NOT to work, but VIOLA, it works perfectly !  Switched them again, without restarting and the 3rd party mouse is working again... so the apple mouse reset the frozen Jam-up.  So, my dear Gurus, if we can tell Open firmware that the mouse is a Genuine Apple mouse, I think we will have no more "Frozen Mouse"

LASTLY, we need to ask ALL mini users, are the using USB Overdrive (since it has a modified USB Mouse driver) or the stock 9.2.2 driver.  I am going to see if I get the freeze-up with the USB overdrive extensions turned off

Offline FdB

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4
« Reply #523 on: April 30, 2018, 02:49:07 PM »
No frozen meese here, ever. Always using the original,
genuine Apple mouse and zero use of USB overdrive.
Voilà! ;D

Now, if I could just get away from option-booting between OS9 and OS X...
(and the clock time-shift weirdness between the two) I'd be extremely hap-hap-happy!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 02:59:38 PM by Fury deBongo »
This Must Be The Place

Offline macStuff

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #524 on: April 30, 2018, 03:55:02 PM »
Finally got Simplified Chinese version of 9.2.2 running on my Mac mini G4 ;)


congrats Solderwire!
"to boldly go where none have gone before!"
heheh  8)
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com