Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 224382 times)

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #375 on: April 03, 2018, 07:29:12 AM »
Does anyone know how I can get the CD background (tile). The one that is the desktop background when you boot a generic Apple OS 9 CD (I have some such as 9.2.1 and 9.1), that do this. I never found where the tile was stored because there was no Appearance folder in the System Folder of these CD's. Also I tried opening up an Appearance Control Panel and it says I am using a Custom Theme (this is off the CD). And when I click Save Theme, it asks me to name the theme, then nothing else happens. Probably because CD's are Read-Only. But it would not let me save on the hard disk. Anyone know how I can get this to be the background when you boot the Mac mini CD?
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #376 on: April 03, 2018, 08:26:51 AM »
The Startup CD folder is based on The MacTron's System folder, we just remove a few files. This folder is used in almost all ASR disks because is damn fast, optimized and powerful. An so the desktop picture, wich is a 8bit 8x8 pattern -you will liked or not- nothing is fastest and lighter to load, which is very importan when botting from a CD.

Apple uses this "CD background" to note that such System folder only and only can be used on a CD, never it could boot into a HD or other media, which is not the case of this reducted MacTron's System folder that can - alternatively - be used as a drag and drop startup folder in a emergency case. Of course it lacks some utilities, like control strip bar that dramatically reduce the responsiveness of the system. Any way items like this can be added latter if someone consider that it's utility is more than the system performance drawback.

But If you insist... the background you are searching for, is in the System file of a booting Apple CD (or image)  ;)
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Offline IIO

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #377 on: April 03, 2018, 08:43:32 AM »
shouldnt the question be how to generally have a background image in finder windows wwithout third party extensions.

i believe the regular window background (white?) never was in the region of appearance stuff, it is most likely in the system siutcase, eventually not even as standard bitmap resource.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #378 on: April 03, 2018, 08:49:13 AM »
oh you are asking desktop background (it is a while ago that i saw an OS9 installation :))
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #379 on: April 03, 2018, 08:50:12 AM »
Yep, if the CD Background means a slower boot, I will just keep it as it it.
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Offline FdB

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Overclock Mini?
« Reply #380 on: April 03, 2018, 11:17:04 AM »
1.25GHz Mini yet to arrive and already considering
overclocking to 1.5 and a larger than 80mb HD. :o

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/fastest-flash-and-using-a-pencil-to-overclock.1973903/
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Overclock Mini?
« Reply #381 on: April 03, 2018, 11:41:14 AM »
1.25GHz Mini yet to arrive and already considering
overclocking to 1.5 and a larger than 80mb HD. :o

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/fastest-flash-and-using-a-pencil-to-overclock.1973903/

Good stuff. 80MB is quite small though.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 11:57:19 AM by RossDarker »
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #382 on: April 03, 2018, 11:42:25 AM »

But If you insist... the background you are searching for, is in the System file of a booting Apple CD (or image)  ;)

Probably won't use the CD background, but I cannot find it in the System file of the 9.2.1 CD with ResEdit, what resource is it in and what ID?
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Offline IIO

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Re: Overclock Mini?
« Reply #383 on: April 03, 2018, 11:47:56 AM »
1.25GHz Mini yet to arrive and already considering
overclocking to 1.5 and a larger than 80mb HD. :o

ive got a 1,25 1,33 and 1,42 here, the 1.5 silent upgrade is hard to find (and i am not sure if 5.5% are worth the hassle.)

the 1.5 is about as rare as the mini server and sellers asking for fantasy prices.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 12:00:13 PM by IIO »
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Overclock Mini?
« Reply #384 on: April 03, 2018, 11:51:12 AM »
1.25GHz Mini yet to arrive and already considering
overclocking to 1.5 and a larger than 80mb HD. :o

ive got a 1,25 1,33 and 1,42 here, the 1.5 silent upgrade is hard to find (and i am not sure if 5.5% are worth the hassle.)

the 1.5 is aboputt as rare as the mini server and sellers asking for fantasy prices.

I think the silent upgrade also has a SuperDrive (burn DVDs, unlike the others with Combo) and think it also has Airport & Bluetooth default (but that won't work in os 9 right now)
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Offline RossDarker

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Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #385 on: April 04, 2018, 05:50:20 AM »
MacTron I have made a few changes to the ISO/toast CD for the Mac mini. The old link will no longer work so replace it with:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xbVMhxEyMnHN78ZLswc5GhZz6q3miAhI/view?usp=sharing
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #386 on: April 04, 2018, 05:52:14 AM »
New ISO CD (just changed a few things in CD Extras, and the Read Me): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xbVMhxEyMnHN78ZLswc5GhZz6q3miAhI/view?usp=sharing


Burning methods are still the same from my post about the previous ISO on page 5.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #387 on: April 04, 2018, 06:40:08 AM »
i see people in forums from back then claiming that they have run the 1,25 overclocked to 1,75 with "no poblems".

whatever that means for application stability and temperature ... under MacOS9(!) ... but 40% more cycles is tasty.
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #388 on: April 04, 2018, 01:43:19 PM »
i see people in forums from back then claiming that they have run the 1,25 overclocked to 1,75 with "no poblems".

whatever that means for application stability and temperature ... under MacOS9(!) ... but 40% more cycles is tasty.

The 7447A@1.42 car run at 1.66 Mhz without a glitch. Some of them can achieve the 1.826 Mhz. I don't know if those are a faster factory rated chips, or just best quality chips (as NewerTech and Sonnet have claimed)
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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #389 on: April 04, 2018, 01:45:16 PM »
MacTron I have made a few changes to the ISO/toast CD for the Mac mini. The old link will no longer work so replace it with:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xbVMhxEyMnHN78ZLswc5GhZz6q3miAhI/view?usp=sharing
Updated!
Thanks
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #390 on: April 04, 2018, 01:47:35 PM »
Probably won't use the CD background, but I cannot find it in the System file of the 9.2.1 CD with ResEdit, what resource is it in and what ID?
I's on ppat resource ID 16.

You can also add a startup screen like this:

... which I have discarded a it's moment ...  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #391 on: April 04, 2018, 02:19:09 PM »
Thanks for the resource id for the desktop tile. I created a few startup screen I could have used for the Mac mini but decided that people probably like default. I converted your JPG to a PICT resource in PS7 and looks quite nice when you boot up.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 09:54:37 AM by RossDarker »
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Offline IIO

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #392 on: April 04, 2018, 02:23:59 PM »
You can also add a startup screen like this:

+1
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #393 on: April 04, 2018, 02:25:37 PM »
did any of you already try to add OSX again to a fresh OS9 mini?
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #394 on: April 04, 2018, 02:45:43 PM »
did any of you already try to add OSX again to a fresh OS9 mini?

Yes and it only ever gets to a Prohibitory Symbol. Doing a Verbose Boot of X hangs at a specific line. I think its the disk drivers because when I erase it with terminal, I can boot X but not 9!! (Even with OS9Drivers option). Booting 9 after an X install gives a flashing ? On a floppy, but X boots fine, but booting X after 9 install will only boot 9). Not quite sure why but that seems to be the case when I tried anyway. I dual boot Tiger and Z1-9.2.2 on my tiBook. For my Mac mini, I boot 9 from internal drive, and Tiger from a FW disk, and that works great.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #395 on: April 04, 2018, 04:20:28 PM »
uh. i am tired. i had to remove both my comments because you already answered it. :D
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 04:34:17 PM by IIO »
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Offline DieHard

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #396 on: April 05, 2018, 08:36:04 PM »
Mactron, I remember a youtube guy saying your "Well Tempered" Mac OS logo you made for my ARS install had a typo, just though I would mention that for future reference, I think he meant a spelling error ?

Offline ELN

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #397 on: April 06, 2018, 03:59:51 AM »
I would prefer that changes be made to the part of the OS that has actually been modified: the NewWorld ROM. Otherwise we're changing parts of the System file that were language-localised. How about a subtle, non-textual tweak to the Happy Mac icon? I have attached a BinHexed resource file containing the 'cicn' resource from the ROM.

Funky desktop patterns are, of course, super cool!

Offline IIO

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #398 on: April 06, 2018, 05:48:24 AM »
cant the startup screen be added by placing a picture file in the system? like in OSX?
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #399 on: April 06, 2018, 06:05:55 AM »
@IIO doesn't that get rid the extensions loading, like you don't see them loading but they are.
I've just been doing things like this:




and this keeps all the progress things viewable.
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #400 on: April 06, 2018, 06:15:27 AM »
Mactron, I remember a youtube guy saying your "Well Tempered" Mac OS logo you made for my ARS install had a typo, just though I would mention that for future reference, I think he meant a spelling error ?
The sentence is based on J.S Bach "Das wohltemperierte Klavier" work, which is translate into "The well-tempered clavier"  while in some places appears as  "The wel tempered clavier" may be that's the typo...
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #401 on: April 06, 2018, 06:18:58 AM »
cant the startup screen be added by placing a picture file in the system? like in OSX?
Yes, it can. Any PICT file named "Startup Screen" can be used.
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #402 on: April 06, 2018, 06:19:25 AM »
Wouldn't you say 'tampered' if you've changed and fiddled around with stuff.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 06:46:00 AM by RossDarker »
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #403 on: April 06, 2018, 06:22:12 AM »
I would prefer that changes be made to the part of the OS that has actually been modified: the NewWorld ROM. Otherwise we're changing parts of the System file that were language-localised. How about a subtle, non-textual tweak to the Happy Mac icon? I have attached a BinHexed resource file containing the 'cicn' resource from the ROM.

Funky desktop patterns are, of course, super cool!

I'm Agree.
Furthermore, the changes should be as neutral as possible, and never should implie a overload of the system, nor minimum.
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Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #404 on: April 06, 2018, 09:18:40 AM »
Wouldn't you say 'tampered' if you've changed and fiddled around with stuff.

So true!

  The only things I really ever desired as improvements were clearly showing the OS sub-version number (ie, 9.2.2 rather than just 9.2), and a verbose boot display mode akin to how OS X does it.  The option to manually step through extension loading one-by-one while in verbose display mode would be a nice bonus.  I'm still hoping for some sort of 'pre-boot' text-based PRAM editor that uses plain english rather than the 'cryptic' OF commands, basically a 'friendly' OF UI and boot menu.  PCs almost always had BIOS post screen and menus, while Apple gives you virtually nothing lest poor timid Apple users run terrified from their computers at the slightest sight of 'details' or 'text'.  I find it maddening that we can't even see a basic early RAM count - instead we get an extra-helpful black screen.

Offline Daniel

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #405 on: April 06, 2018, 11:36:35 AM »
Wouldn't you say 'tampered' if you've changed and fiddled around with stuff.

So true!

  The only things I really ever desired as improvements were clearly showing the OS sub-version number (ie, 9.2.2 rather than just 9.2), and a verbose boot display mode akin to how OS X does it.  The option to manually step through extension loading one-by-one while in verbose display mode would be a nice bonus.  I'm still hoping for some sort of 'pre-boot' text-based PRAM editor that uses plain english rather than the 'cryptic' OF commands, basically a 'friendly' OF UI and boot menu.  PCs almost always had BIOS post screen and menus, while Apple gives you virtually nothing lest poor timid Apple users run terrified from their computers at the slightest sight of 'details' or 'text'.  I find it maddening that we can't even see a basic early RAM count - instead we get an extra-helpful black screen.

I have some knowledge of OF and have successfully used the client interface api. I may eventually be able to do the things you want.

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #406 on: April 06, 2018, 01:39:55 PM »
I would prefer that changes be made to the part of the OS that has actually been modified: the NewWorld ROM. Otherwise we're changing parts of the System file that were language-localised. How about a subtle, non-textual tweak to the Happy Mac icon? I have attached a BinHexed resource file containing the 'cicn' resource from the ROM.

Funky desktop patterns are, of course, super cool!

I agree to this sentiment.

If I also may add, I know some people will prefer everything cosmetic left untouched, to feel like the "true" OS 9 is truly available on their otherwise-unsupported machine. And it is a "true" OS 9 when nothing but the NewWorldROM is tampered with, since it's the minimum, one and only modification truly required!

Maybe y'all may want to offer more than 1 download option by the end, for the sake of making cosmetic changes a choice? Or keep it raw and provide directions for such modification... Or whatever else y'all find better, really. :)

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #407 on: April 06, 2018, 01:44:10 PM »
Yeah right now I have just kept the mini CD between the Unsupported G4's CD and a Generic CD, as in I have left the startup screen as it is, and the finder, but it still uses some elements from as what MacTron called the "MacTron System Folder" (fast boot desktop background and stuff).
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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #408 on: April 06, 2018, 02:37:12 PM »
did any of you already try to add OSX again to a fresh OS9 mini?

Yes and it only ever gets to a Prohibitory Symbol. Doing a Verbose Boot of X hangs at a specific line. I think its the disk drivers because when I erase it with terminal, I can boot X but not 9!! (Even with OS9Drivers option). Booting 9 after an X install gives a flashing ? On a floppy, but X boots fine, but booting X after 9 install will only boot 9). Not quite sure why but that seems to be the case when I tried anyway. I dual boot Tiger and Z1-9.2.2 on my tiBook. For my Mac mini, I boot 9 from internal drive, and Tiger from a FW disk, and that works great.

Not sure if it counts, but I kept both OS 9 and OS X 10.4.11 Tiger Client on the same internal, physical HDD, but each in a different logical partition. When in OS 9 or when booting with Option (AKA Alt) pressed, I can pick either OS 9 or OS X without any problem whatsoever, but when in OS X, it won't allow me to pick OS 9. (In that case, I just reboot holding Option, so no biggie.)

Oh, also, that was an EXCELLENT post, MacTron! It's very helpful. :) It's one of the things I have been searching for when I joined.

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #409 on: April 06, 2018, 02:58:01 PM »
I forgot to mention something unrelated in my earlier post: I never provided feedback on later experiences I had with the Mini!

So, in order of importance:
- As others also experienced, sound finally worked on the Mini once I got a sound device plugged that has a proper, analog volume controller. Unfortunately, sound is way too low for me to actually be able to enjoy music or sound in general, be it through gaming or by listening to music as a standalone, especially since the Mini's fans almost outdo the volume of the Mini sound;
- As a few others also noted, sometimes after booting or rebooting OS 9, the mouse won't move. It's not that it doesn't work, because clickling still works. But the cursor is frozen in place. Rebooting again normally solves the problem, but the behavior is indeed abnormal;
- I do get the impression the Mini's fans are louder than when using OS X on the Mini, even when nothing much is running. I believe ELN already elaborated on this if my memory serves me right, but I'm also stating my experience to further confirm to others what is the current situation of things. For me, at least so far, the fan isn't really that much of a problem: it is not obnoxiously louder.


I'm not sure if this is also relevant, but as I mentioned in another thread, I formatted my internal HDD with 2 HFS+ partitions, one with OS 9 only, and another with OS X Tiger 10.4.11 Client only. I can boot on either one just fine, too.

But there is one not-so-important problem I noticed: While I can run apps just fine in OS 9, I can't run those same OS 9 apps well (it freezes the picture a lot) on Classic when it is configured to use the OS 9 installation from the other partition (rather than its own internal one, which I'm not yet sure if it is missing, if it doesn't come with my Tiger install CDs or if it IS indeed missing simply because I overlooked something). I don't know if this happens simply because OS 9 is in another partition or because of the modified video drivers, ROM and/or absence of the Multiprocessing folder that are currently required to boot OS 9 on the Mini natively. Or because of some other reason.

I figured mentioning this can't hurt, even if it is not all that relevant.

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #410 on: April 06, 2018, 04:08:35 PM »
Doesn't the Classic environment use "Mac OS X Fake Finder v1.0" and a system suitcase, that are both found in /System/Library/CoreServices/ There should be a System Suitcase, that I think classic uses, and two items called Finder. If you get info on both Finders in the CoreServices directory, 1 is just the OS X finder, but the other has a version string of "Mac OS X Fake Finder v1.0", and if you open that fake finder in textedit, it looks just like a Mac OS ROM. If I remember correctly that is.

When I got my mini off ebay, it came with all its box and polystyrene inside and manuals and CDs and there were 3 CDs: The two Restore disks, the first is OS X 10.3.7 and the second has Mac OS 9 and additional software on. The 3rd CD is titled Mac OS 9, with the words Mac mini underneath and this contains an install package that installs the latest 9.2.2 to run in Classic, I believe no Mac OS ROM is installed by this CD, unless this is the CD that makes "Mac OS X Fake Finder", which seemed to be a Mac OS ROM, but placed in the CoreServices of OS X system instead of the System Folder the classic CD installs. When you run classic environment after install, it does not say anything about updating it to work in classic.

If you want I can make a disk image of that 3rd CD so you can use Classic stuff in OS X, but better to just boot the modified os 9 for the mini.
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #411 on: April 06, 2018, 04:15:42 PM »
Not sure if it counts, but I kept both OS 9 and OS X 10.4.11 Tiger Client on the same internal, physical HDD, but each in a different logical partition. When in OS 9 or when booting with Option (AKA Alt) pressed, I can pick either OS 9 or OS X without any problem whatsoever, but when in OS X, it won't allow me to pick OS 9. (In that case, I just reboot holding Option, so no biggie.)

I tried that too. What did you use to initialize the disk, Drive Setup on the Mac mini CD? When I tried Drive Setup, both partitions would show up with openfirmware "multi-boot" (option key at startup), 9 would boot but X would hang.
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Offline Daniel

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #412 on: April 06, 2018, 04:25:28 PM »
The fake finder and fake suitcase are there to prevent an OS9 system from un-blessing the directory by mistake (and for booting X on Old World Macs). They have no bearing on Classic.

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #413 on: April 06, 2018, 04:43:44 PM »
Before we could boot OS 9 on the minis, I used classic in tiger and there was never a Mac OS ROM file, it wasn't invisible either. Definitely wasn't one in the classic System Folder. It must have taken it from somewhere else, but I see what you mean about blessing, because Finder and System and the drag and drop thing.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #414 on: April 06, 2018, 04:58:43 PM »
like jub says, the built-in speaker is so low that it is almost impossible to use it for anything more than the warning beep. so this seems to be the least important.

but the headphone jack, which was also affected by the same illness, might be a solution which musicians can already enjoy. though it is not very loud either, some -15db according to my mackie bus...

i will upgrade 4 of my minis with audio interfaces (edirol, behringer) in the next days and see how practicable it is to use usb or firewire IOs - which raises the clutter on the desk, but provides better dynamic and lower latency for the use of the mini as musical instrument.

which brings me to the question that, if a mini is upgraded with OS9, if ASIO streams might also have problems (i.e. not only for the ASIO Soundmanager but also for device drivers)
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #415 on: April 06, 2018, 05:41:42 PM »
You've just got to make the volume louder from the external speaker. Lile you can't change the volume from the OS, but I can get range from very quiet to very loud by using the volume control (physical + and - buttons) on the hifi I am using over aux. Not sure the internal speaker works at all does it?
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #416 on: April 06, 2018, 09:42:23 PM »
  I'm getting plenty of level from the Mini's output passed through a mixer to powered monitors.  It appears to be driving at line level, so basic powered speakers that are expecting a headphone driving output level from the jack will not likely get much volume.  If it goes through something else with a proper preamp first then there should be no problem, or a typical hifi amp/speaker combo alternatively.  Even my relatively small Fostex powered monitors blast air in my face from the bass ports when I crank some House music!

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #417 on: April 07, 2018, 11:10:32 AM »
it is nice to hear that you guys seem to connect speakers directly to your minis, but that was not exactly my plan. :D
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #418 on: April 07, 2018, 08:26:06 PM »
A reminder: the latest mini ROM (grab a copy here) works with the Apple CPU Plugins file. If you disable the file, the mini will run hot and loud!

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #419 on: April 07, 2018, 11:31:27 PM »
The OF properties for the i2s-a device (as opposed to the i2s-b device, which is the modem) seem to match my FW800-cum-FW400 pretty well. It doesn't look like an OF fix will work here.

Here's where I am on the Apple Audio Extension.

Never before have I needed to patch a PEF container that lives in a data fork with other containers. I found that the easiest way to do it was to move all the data fork binaries to 'ndrv' resources, which patchpef handles well. If anyone is interested, I have attached an extension with that change made ("AudExtR"). The new ndrvs have resource IDs in the range 13000-13021.

That being done, I have patchpef'd the I2SAudioPlugin to dump some rudimentary output from "__SndIOInitialize" to the NK log. It seems to get called twice during boot. More to come, of course.

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #420 on: April 07, 2018, 11:39:08 PM »
I2SAudioPlugin looks up these OF properties:

Code: [Select]
driver-ist
AAPL,address
i2s-serial-format
mclk-sample-rate-ratio

BTW, any chance we could sticky this thread?

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #421 on: April 08, 2018, 02:35:18 AM »
Think you should only have the Custom Happy Mac on the bootable CD, keeping the installed system a generic happy mac. By the way will the ROM from post #267 work with the CPU plugins, does the thing just go in the Multiprocessing folder in Extensions? Also are the CPU plugins from post #286? I could use your latest ROM on the CD, and ROM from 267 in the System you install. I can update the CD iso again with these things.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 03:06:52 AM by RossDarker »
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #422 on: April 08, 2018, 03:51:14 AM »
RossDarker that's a fair point. But I still think that it makes better sense to attach a visible mark to all the code that we have substantially modified, and to leave everything else alone.

As a rule, I can only vouch for the latest file that I have posted. I try to work on one patch branch at a time (currently "aggressive-mini-power-mgt" in powermac-rom and "mini-pmu-fix" in newworld-rom). For posterity I keep old branches and archive old releases, but I forget about these very quickly. Don't use them!

The latest ROM *is* compatible with a *stock* Apple CPU Plugins file. Apple's "Core99Plugin" freezes when trying to read the nonexistent THRM registers on a 7450-family CPU, but I work around this with a NanoKernel patch. Without the Apple CPU Plugins file, the CPU will be unable to take brief "naps" when the OS is idle, so the mini will run hot, causing the fans to spin up and make a racket.

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #423 on: April 08, 2018, 03:55:53 AM »
Okay, so I will change the ROM in both the CD and the Base System. Just to clarify, should I just use the CPU plugins from a generic apple install (or from the standard Unsupported G4's CD), or your hacked up ones for the mini (from #286)?
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #424 on: April 08, 2018, 04:24:52 AM »
I think this was mentioned with an earlier ROM too, but your latest ROM can put the Mac mini to sleep, with the screen going off, but the Sleep light does not pulse and you can still hear stuff going on inside the mini. And then can't wake up.
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #425 on: April 08, 2018, 04:28:44 AM »
Use a stock Apple CPU Plugins file. With the NanoKernel patches in the ROM, hacks to the CPU Plugins file are no longer needed.

And use this ROM file! It will not be automatically booted on non-mini machines, lest the prim-info patch muck something up.

Until we get sleep working, perhaps tweak the installed Energy Saver preferences to disable automatic sleep?

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #426 on: April 08, 2018, 05:01:37 AM »
Ok I am using am using CPU plugins from my TiBook, where the version has a Z in (4.0, Copyright Apple Computer, Inc. 1994-2002 Mac OS CPU Software Z-5.6). (attached) This seem to go well with the latest ROM for fan behaviour. Like if I run Bugdom, the fans will get louder, and when I quit, they go back quiet. I think Bugdom is always a good test because it uses Sound, requires QD3D, Hardware acceleration, and will make fans run faster, so you get an idea of what works. I probably won't put the ROM+CPU plugins on the CD as default yet, until the box that says "Your computer cannot go to sleep, because some System Software is missing" (when you try to sleep), or until sleep works correctly. Although, I could make it a thing you can install from the "CD Extras" folder on the CD, which changes the ROM to the latest and adds in the CPU plugins, if people know about the sleep not waking up.
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #427 on: April 08, 2018, 06:08:24 AM »
This (version 3.9) seems to be the stock one in Mac OS 9.2.2 (US English). (I'd guess that only the copyright string is different between language packs.) Your version 4.0 is probably the better one to use, but I'll leave the choice to you!

Excellent job on this ISO, RossDarker! I actually used it today to set up a mini. It took me on a nostalgia trip to 2015, when I learnt that my neglected MDD FW800 could run my favourite OS.

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #428 on: April 08, 2018, 06:10:01 AM »
One last thing: if you are going to leave the CPU Plugin out by default, you should still use the latest ROM. Bring earmuffs though!

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #429 on: April 08, 2018, 06:52:12 AM »
Ah yes that is quality. Thanks on that, removing the Multiprocessing folder with the new ROM will say you can't sleep and gives the options [Cancel] and [Shut Down] if you try to sleep.

You will be able to add the multiprocessing folder separately, which will be in the CD extras folder.

I'll get updating the ISO!
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #430 on: April 08, 2018, 09:16:21 AM »
Ok here it is:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-80X7kS0noCDNiP61uA54uLCAM4d9lRQ/view?usp=sharing

Changes:
ROM is now ELN's latest ROM with MacTron's Happy Mac icon.
The Multiprocessing folder can be added to your extensions folder. Multiprocessing folder is located in the CD Extras folder in this CD.
Updated a few of the Read Me documents.

Burn the ISO through the Finder or Disk Utility or Toast on OS X, and you can burn in Windows too. You can boot the Mac mini off this CD once burned and use ASR to install OS 9.
Boots ONLY the Mac mini G4s. (10,1 and 10,2).
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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #432 on: April 08, 2018, 09:49:37 AM »
great stuff.

could you start adding versionnumbers or date to the filenames mb? stuff starts to spread around servers.
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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #433 on: April 08, 2018, 10:05:32 AM »
great stuff.

could you start adding versionnumbers or date to the filenames mb? stuff starts to spread around servers.

Right now it is Version 5 of the Mac mini CDs that use ASR. I guess you could say Version 0 was that old Drag and Drop install I originally made. Each time I remake the CD, the version changes by 1. I'll add the version to the file name.
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #435 on: April 08, 2018, 01:05:06 PM »
BTW, any chance we could sticky this thread?
Donne  ;D
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #436 on: April 09, 2018, 12:29:13 PM »
By the way, has anyone succeeded booting into OS 9 on the Mini, but over FireWire (or even USB) drives? I can install OS 9 files just like I did with the internal HDD I have, and it shows up among the options on OS 9's StartUp Disk and even upon booting with Alt/Option pressed as a boot option, but once it attempts to boot, I get the "diskette with question mark" problem, implying it couldn't find any OS to boot with from there. Some seconds later, it boots from the internal HDD.

Aside from this inability described above, it also causes a little side-effect: if booting into OS 9 afterwards (installed in my internal HDD), all the partitions are missing from my external FW HDD, meaning the drive goes entirely undetected, and even upon rebooting with Alt/Option pressed, those partitions are all still missing. The problem is resolved when I boot into my internal HDD's OS X partition, which immediately "sees" the external HDD once again, and its partitions.

For reference, when all of the external FW HDD's partitions are visible and accessible once again, I can boot OS X 10.4/5 Client/Server off them without any problem whatsoever.

In short:
1. How to boot OS 9 off FireWire drives on the mini?
2. Why does the external FW drive "disappear", and why OS X "finds them back" while OS 9 does not?

In case anyone can answer these... I believe external, bootable OS 9 besides optical medium would be very desirable.
I didn't try booting things from OF, although I'm not sure if that would make a difference for OS 9.

EDIT: And oh, also:
- All partitions were formatted over OS X's Disk Utility. The Drive Setup that came with the OS 9 mini CD couldn't support the FW drive at all;
- The partition I tried to get OS 9 to work with was formatted with HFS+ (without journaling, case-INsensitive. Meaning plain, old, default HFS+).

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #437 on: April 09, 2018, 12:42:48 PM »
@Jubadub, I can see my FW HD fine from Mac OS 9, and it there a 2 partitions on APM, both formatted as JHFS+ with OS9Drivers. Are the partitions too big on your disk for OS 9 to see?
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Offline Jubadub

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #438 on: April 09, 2018, 01:00:59 PM »
@Jubadub, I can see my FW HD fine from Mac OS 9, and it there a 2 partitions on APM, both formatted as JHFS+ with OS9Drivers. Are the partitions too big on your disk for OS 9 to see?

I can see them too, provided the bug I described didn't occur (or got already fixed). But what I couldn't do was to boot OS 9 off them, nor use OS 9's Drive Setup on them. Did you manage to boot 9 from an external FireWire drive?

The partitions I have don't surpass 190GB in size. The whole drive is 931GB big. (Incidentally, I believe although OS 9 won't supposedly boot from partitions bigger than 200GB, it can still see and use partitions as big as 2TB, no?)

I forgot to mention, I also used APM (Apple Partition Map) when formatting, and I even checked the box in Tiger's Disk Utility where I state I intend to boot Mac OS 9 off the drive. Could it be the latter is, somehow and ironically, interfering with things? (I'd guess not, but I dunno.)

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #439 on: April 09, 2018, 01:36:59 PM »
I boot OS 9 off the FW drive yes. The drive contains Tiger & 9.2.2 partition. I boot the Mac mini off the Tiger partition for use of OS X, and the 9.2.2 partition is what I use to make the ASR CDs. And the internal HD I use for just use for general 9.2.2. For some reason, it's just the internal drive I cannot dual boot.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 01:48:50 PM by RossDarker »
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #440 on: April 09, 2018, 01:52:07 PM »
By the way, I too long often notice FW drives missing when holding option. Sometimes if you disconnect it, refresh with r key, reboot and plug it in or plug it back in before reboot it will show up. The diskette with ? means I think that it loads the ROM and stuff, so it knows about the System, but the OS 9 drivers are missing, or partition is too big to boot off. You say you have checked both these, so see if you can format it from an installed system on your internal with Drive Setup, and not Drive Setup whilst being booted off the CD.
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #441 on: April 09, 2018, 02:17:33 PM »
For some reason, it's just the internal drive I cannot dual boot.

Funny how our situation is reversed!

[...] see if you can format it from an installed system on your internal with Drive Setup, and not Drive Setup whilst being booted off the CD.

I believe I tried this, but I'll take another look. I'll also dig up various versions of Driver Setup to see if any of them works. If none does, are there good known replacements for Drive Setup in OS 9? I might pay a trip to the Garden.

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #442 on: April 09, 2018, 02:31:35 PM »
lacie silverling was widely used back in the day, mainly for making partitions on firewire disks.
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #443 on: April 09, 2018, 03:02:31 PM »
Found "LaCie Silverlining", I guess that's it. :) Funny how my drive is also LaCie. Thanks for the recommendation!

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #444 on: April 09, 2018, 03:41:00 PM »
My FW drive is A LaCie d2 Quadra where the big blue light on the front is a button where you can assign stuff to run when you press the button somehow.

Anyone know how you'd get OS X on the mini to show the OS 9 partition under Startup Disk pref pane?
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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #445 on: April 09, 2018, 04:14:59 PM »
Ross,

Please provide notes or PM me on ROM version and things removed and added to the image, this will be the one I will post on the download boards

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #446 on: April 09, 2018, 05:36:00 PM »
Incidentally, I believe although OS 9 won't supposedly boot from partitions bigger than 200GB, it can still see and use partitions as big as 2TB, no?

from firewire yes, from IDE no!

2*500 would be better.
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #447 on: April 09, 2018, 05:37:51 PM »
Found "LaCie Silverlining", I guess that's it. :) Funny how my drive is also LaCie. Thanks for the recommendation!

i think you need the latest v.4.6 something for 9.2.2, SL is very picky about OSes
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #448 on: April 09, 2018, 05:39:50 PM »
Anyone know how you'd get OS X on the mini to show the OS 9 partition under Startup Disk pref pane?

eventually it is not ->blessed, but otoh it should be when you installed it via ASR...

p.s. ross, out of interest, can you select this OS9 folder as classic enviroment?
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #449 on: April 10, 2018, 02:19:07 AM »
It's blessed and I can select it with classic. I can boot it through the option key at startup. I think it doesn't show up in X as a startup disk because the Mac mini doesn't boot a standard OS 9. Doesn't matter too much though.
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