Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 38335 times)

Offline ELN

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #150 on: January 22, 2018, 05:40:43 PM »
We're mostly focussed on the mini on this thread. It seems to have much more trouble starting than a PowerBook does.

For your PowerBook, I suggest using iMic's "Generic" Mac OS ROM. Copy the boot 3 resource from the ROM I posted into your Mac OS ROM file *and* the System suitcase. Run this OF line to boot:

Code: [Select]
2000000 encode-int " AAPL,debug" property mac-boot
Then let us know what the last log message is before the crash. Is there another thread somewhere that covers the PowerBook?

Offline Daniel

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #151 on: January 22, 2018, 05:45:14 PM »
I would suggest trying to set the startup disk with system preferences. I know that tbxis can be loaded from any folder, but I think the System File has to be in a blessed folder. Or maybe you could try moving the system files to the Coreservices OSX folder (after moving BootX somewhere else). That will probably prevent either operating system from booting, but maybe something will work.

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #152 on: January 23, 2018, 02:48:52 PM »
Would somebody (looking at you nanopico) please post on how the mini's USB controller differs from a supported G4?

I'll look, but it really doesn't.
It's the PMU.  It is controlled over USB.
They will be tied together nicely (or not so much).
That is why the both need to be disabled.

PMU99 (supported) is a Mitsubishi M16C/62F microprocessor.  It uses it's own RAM and ROM.  the uPMU in the mini will likely not have the same ROM and thus not the same interface (from a communication/software standpoint) except for very very low level common functions like turn on and turn off. 
Intrepid controls all IO (USB and PMU communication). The USB controller chip and PMU are known for all the supported and other machines.  The communication through Intrepid is obviously slightly different than the straight up Keylargo chip used elsewhere or else the PowerBooks would have much more  functionality.

So details on uPMU and Intrepid are needed.  There is much info availble in the OS X source to help identifiy the difference between Keylargo and Intrepid. I have found nothing directly related to PMU99 or uPMU in the OS X code (it's a lot so it's not exactly fast to go through).  All power IO does appear to be handled by Keylargo or Intrepid.  So those chips definitly have knowledge of communication to the PMU.  Disabling the PMU and USB controller makes intrepid stop using them so it just goes on it's happy little way.

Okay I'm starting to confuse myself.  I'll dig more when I get a chance.
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Offline ELN

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #153 on: January 26, 2018, 04:33:48 PM »
It seems that my forum post last night did not go through. I got USB working on the mini! The USB controller driver had a dependence on the PMU that I worked around. (All as nanopico predicted!)

Offline mrhappy

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #154 on: January 26, 2018, 11:04:45 PM »
Hey that's awesome!! ;D

Offline androda

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #155 on: January 27, 2018, 01:01:07 PM »
I think I speak for all of us when I say Thank you for all your work on this!  And What Mac OS ROM can we use to try this ourselves, for extension compatibility testing?

What other repercussions are there for disabling the PMU?  Does the PMU control CPU voltage?  Don't want to burn anything out.
My Collection: Sunflower iMac G4, Beige G3 (G4 333) w/USB+FW, G4 Mini 1.33, 2x G3 500 Pismos

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #156 on: January 27, 2018, 02:17:36 PM »
The PMU controls sleep and such.  On the mini it really doesn't do much more than that.
Breaking it away from USB will primarily mean that if it goes to sleep (if it can at all) it will probably not wake up and will be required to hard restart.  The link between USB and PMU is mostly for controlling device sleep status.

So here is the warning.
There is a possibility that it could cause overheating and possible awkward state that may not be easily be rectified.  Primarily from some devices sleep and some not.


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Offline macStuff

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #157 on: January 28, 2018, 06:15:00 AM »
congrats on your progress  8)

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #158 on: January 28, 2018, 12:52:00 PM »
It seems that my forum post last night did not go through. I got USB working on the mini! The USB controller driver had a dependence on the PMU that I worked around. (All as nanopico predicted!)

Well ELN, you going to make us beg ;D

We'd be interest to know how to reproduce your hacks.

Offline ry755

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #159 on: January 28, 2018, 03:58:47 PM »
By the way, here's a tbxi. It has too many ugly hacks to count. The one I am proudest of is the binary patch to the NativePowerMgrLib. Close second is the logging code that you will see spamming the NK log as the progress bar moves.

To start from this ROM, you must first copy the 'boot 3' resource inside into your System suitcase. Then you should empty your Extensions folder.

No USB, so you can't actually do much. Working on it.

This is great, but how do I use it? It won't boot from it, and when I open it in ResEdit, it says there's no resource fork, and I have to create it! I even tried directly downloading it onto my iBook G3, thinking macOS High Sierra was somehow messing it up.

Do I have to package this up somehow?

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #160 on: January 29, 2018, 08:04:40 AM »
By the way, here's a tbxi. It has too many ugly hacks to count. The one I am proudest of is the binary patch to the NativePowerMgrLib. Close second is the logging code that you will see spamming the NK log as the progress bar moves.

To start from this ROM, you must first copy the 'boot 3' resource inside into your System suitcase. Then you should empty your Extensions folder.

No USB, so you can't actually do much. Working on it.

This is great, but how do I use it? It won't boot from it, and when I open it in ResEdit, it says there's no resource fork, and I have to create it! I even tried directly downloading it onto my iBook G3, thinking macOS High Sierra was somehow messing it up.

Do I have to package this up somehow?

You will need to unpackage it.  It should do that on it's own on an OS 9 machine if you just double click on it.
As far as using it,  as of right now you will need to be able to put the mini into target disc mode, format it's drive with OS 9 drivers, manualy copy the ROM file and a minimal System folder with no extensions.

I haven't gotten to look at this yet, but you may need to make a couple small changes in Open Firmware to allow it to the ROM to accept it is allowed to boot.

I'm working to get a bootable CD image ready for those that will want to test booting and running and extensions to see what you can break.


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Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #161 on: January 29, 2018, 08:10:21 AM »
Would somebody (looking at you nanopico) please post on how the mini's USB controller differs from a supported G4?

Here's some info on not just on USB.  This is something I sent to ELN not long ago. So here it goes live to the WORLD.

Quote
Yes I know I am rehashing existing knowledge but it makes sense in context.

So here is the deal.  Here are the custom chips used on all the G3 and G4 macs.

Grackle, Heathrow, Keylargo, U2, UniNorth, Pangea, Intrepid, Paddington.

Grackle and Heathrow use cuda.
Everything else (except the mini) use PMU99.

Grackle and Heathrow are used only on the Beige G3 and original G3 power book.

Pangea is Keylargo and UniNorth on one chip so essentially cross that one off.
We now have Grackle, Heathrow, Keylargo, UniNorth,U2 and Intrepid.

All of the PowerMac G4 use UniNorth and Keylargo except the MDD.  They use U2 instead of UniNorth. Because the first MDD had OS 9 support officially, that mean that U2 has full OS 9 support. I suspect that U2 is compatible with UniNorth but just has something internal that is different and really doesn't mater.

The iBooks use Pangea for the G3's so essentially they all use UniNorth and Keylargo.
The orginal one uses UniNorth and Keylargo as independent chips though.

The iMac G3's use Grackle and Paddington on the original, UniNorth and Keylargo as independent chips and then Pangea for the rest.

The not original G3 PowerBook uses UniNorth and Keylargo independent.

The eMacs all use UniNorth and KeyLargo

All unsupported use Intrepid.  There is not a single machine that uses intrepid that is supported.
But they all use PMU99 except the mini.  The mini is it's own beast.

The PMU is controlled via the IO controller (intrepid or keylargo).

The PMU controls sleep, the real time clock, screen brightness on laptops, battery charging on laptops and the keyboard and trackpad interface on laptops.

On older laptops it does the keyboard/trackpad through ADB and then USB on the rest.
This is why you had to disable the PMU and USB on the mini.

So all those G4 laptops that have Power Management problems and screen brightness controls on the OS X only machines have Intrepid to thank for that.
The IO controller in Intrepid can be operated in a very basic form, but all the extra functionality is unknown as it must be different.

Now go through the source for Core99 and Keylargo in OS X and the USB interface code.
They all reference Keylargo and Intrepid. They both have all the same functions, but they do it through different registers.  There are common ones yes, but some of the Keylargo ones that are on Intrepid do completely different things and the other way as well.  In fact there are many times where a register in Keylargo uses X number of bits to control stuff and Intrepid uses the same number but shifted.  So OS 9 would send bat shit crazy instructions to Intrepid related to the PMU. So at this point the PMU is just a black hole and it really doesn't matter.  So point being that there are different registers and for similar ones different bit patterns or not used registers in one or the other.
There is nothing about the uPMU in OS X source at all.  So it must be compatible in some way.

Please not that the code for these things is spread across a bunch of places so I may have missed something.

From what I can find using actual Apple documentation is that Pangea and Keylargo are the same in the IO controller part.
Intrepid provides the same functionality but is completely different. So back to earlier this is why all those PowerBooks have issues all related to power.

Continuing on.  The USB bus and PMU are very tightly joined.
There is a lot of communication going between the two (through intrepid mind you) related to controlling a lot of power related functionality.  So disabling one in the mini is definitely not enough as I assume you have found out already Elliot.

Now here comes the best part.  Intrepid is the same through all the machines.
The PMU is not.  PMU99 is not the same on every machine. Well it is and it isn't.
The PMU is just a microcontroller.  It actually could do anything. It could act as the main CPU for the machine (though it would be so incredibly slow).  It has it's own ROM and RAM.
Each machine would have it's own special code loaded onto the PMU chip. So there would be a pretty wide variety of capabilities of the chip.  PMU99 is just the name they gave to a specific Mitsubishi chip.  You can find documentation on it's ISA and other things online.  So nothing special.  uPMU is just the name for a different physical chip.  What that chip is exactly I have not found out yet.  I'm a little nervous about cracking mine open to find out what it is.

So looking at documentation that I could find, Intrepid has it's own internal USB bus just like Keylargo.  Keylargo had two separate ports.  These are the ones you actually see physically on the machine.  On laptops PMU99 is programed to handle the interface for the keyboard and trackpad.
Intrepid has three ports on it's controller.  One is used for Bluetooth and modem if present.
The other two are not used and are not available to use. So this makes it not directly compatible with Keylargo, though probably close enough.  The USB ports you see physically come from a PCI USB controller. The two USB ports are on the same controller so they share the bus.  On keylargo where USB is controlled internally, it has two independent controllers so that both ports can operate with out sharing anything. I would think this sort of thing was changed because USB 2 was used on the PCI controller and that is faster so they thought it less of an issue to have them on the same controller.

Back to the PMU chip. When the trampoline runs, it may be identifying PMU99 and setting it up correctly to talk with Intrepid.  uPMU probably talks the same way just maybe on different pins physically.  But since the trampoline does not know about it, it can't set it up.
And the as far as the trampoline goes, it doesn't know enough about Intrepid to get it up and running enough to link in the PMU correctly.

If you have any info that may contridict this or can expand on it, I'd love to hear it, but please provide a source of the info as it may contain other important stuff too.
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Offline ry755

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #162 on: January 29, 2018, 03:08:59 PM »
By the way, here's a tbxi. It has too many ugly hacks to count. The one I am proudest of is the binary patch to the NativePowerMgrLib. Close second is the logging code that you will see spamming the NK log as the progress bar moves.

To start from this ROM, you must first copy the 'boot 3' resource inside into your System suitcase. Then you should empty your Extensions folder.

No USB, so you can't actually do much. Working on it.

This is great, but how do I use it? It won't boot from it, and when I open it in ResEdit, it says there's no resource fork, and I have to create it! I even tried directly downloading it onto my iBook G3, thinking macOS High Sierra was somehow messing it up.

Do I have to package this up somehow?

You will need to unpackage it.  It should do that on it's own on an OS 9 machine if you just double click on it.
As far as using it,  as of right now you will need to be able to put the mini into target disc mode, format it's drive with OS 9 drivers, manualy copy the ROM file and a minimal System folder with no extensions.

I haven't gotten to look at this yet, but you may need to make a couple small changes in Open Firmware to allow it to the ROM to accept it is allowed to boot.

I'm working to get a bootable CD image ready for those that will want to test booting and running and extensions to see what you can break.

 ::) I didn't even think about double clicking on it! Lol, I'll try that a little later and see if it works.

Offline ry755

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #163 on: January 29, 2018, 04:30:14 PM »
Got it! And yes, it's not very useful as there's no USB support. I used the open firmware commands here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2408.msg28206.html#msg28206
Just entering "boot" wouldn't work. I had to use "boot hd:,\\:tbxi"

I had to copy ID 3 from the boot resource to the System Suitcase, then it worked. Otherwise it'll bomb saying address error, or something like that.

Is there a way to put those commands in the NVRAM, so I don't have to enter them every time?

Pictures:
https://imgur.com/2NQGnXZ
https://imgur.com/6ZF4jlq

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #164 on: January 29, 2018, 07:29:23 PM »
  I know integrated Bluetooth runs on it's own USB port internally on the MDD and presumably every other G4 where it was an option, but does anyone happen to know if the modem in the G4 Mini is USB, or did it retain the serial port method used in other models even though it's modem is physically different?  I'm musing about the possibility of hacking an actual serial port into the Mini.

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #165 on: January 30, 2018, 05:52:28 AM »
  I know integrated Bluetooth runs on it's own USB port internally on the MDD and presumably every other G4 where it was an option, but does anyone happen to know if the modem in the G4 Mini is USB, or did it retain the serial port method used in other models even though it's modem is physically different?  I'm musing about the possibility of hacking an actual serial port into the Mini.

The modem on the mini uses the same port actually as Bluetooth. As does any G4 laptop.
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Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #166 on: January 30, 2018, 07:54:41 PM »
  I know integrated Bluetooth runs on it's own USB port internally on the MDD and presumably every other G4 where it was an option, but does anyone happen to know if the modem in the G4 Mini is USB, or did it retain the serial port method used in other models even though it's modem is physically different?  I'm musing about the possibility of hacking an actual serial port into the Mini.

The modem on the mini uses the same port actually as Bluetooth. As does any G4 laptop.

  So the modem is on a USB bus internally in those models?

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #167 on: January 31, 2018, 07:27:42 AM »
  I know integrated Bluetooth runs on it's own USB port internally on the MDD and presumably every other G4 where it was an option, but does anyone happen to know if the modem in the G4 Mini is USB, or did it retain the serial port method used in other models even though it's modem is physically different?  I'm musing about the possibility of hacking an actual serial port into the Mini.

The modem on the mini uses the same port actually as Bluetooth. As does any G4 laptop.

  So the modem is on a USB bus internally in those models?

Small correction.  The modem on these models is not an emulated or actual serial device.
It is connected to the I2S bus so it is not a usb modem internally either.

A little more clarification and correction here.
North Bridge and IO controller (which on other models are separate chips) is a single chip called Intrepid.
Intrepid has 3 internal USB controllers (0, 1, 2)  Controller 2 is used for bluetooth, 0 and 1 are not available for use.
The external usb ports you see and can use, are on a seperate PCI USB controller.

So technically there are two unused USB bus internally.  These are physicillay on the chip, but not exposed to software at all. Plus there is not a way to physically connect to them unless you really really like soldering really really tiny things to other really really tiny things with really really tiny wires.
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Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #168 on: January 31, 2018, 02:30:55 PM »
  I2S bus - alright that's quite interesting.  I wasn't really expecting that, but good to know.  I also wasn't expecting there to be a PCI USB controller, nor an ordinary PCI bus - are these actually discrete and exposed?  That would be far more exciting to exploit than a serial bus, however difficult or unlikely that prospect might be.  Presumably the internal USB port connected to Bluetooth could also be converted into an additional standard port using a port driver chip.

  Crazy thoughts, I know.  I'll quit musing about this for now until more progress is made on basic operation of the Mini in OS 9.  I only like to think about such things because I never wanted a Mini originally due to the lack of decent expandability.  I'm still considering getting one of the much later models with Thunderbolt when the prices finally get down to reasonable.

<update>
Somewhat answering my own question here after studying photos at a couple links:

https://www.mini-itx.com/news/13909018/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1596/9

  USB controller is BGA type - not so fun to mess with.  The Broadcom network chip appears to be pin-style though.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 02:48:10 PM by MacOS Plus »

Offline ELN

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #169 on: January 31, 2018, 11:07:19 PM »
Hi guys. Here's the latest hacked-up image. I've started a new rotation at uni so I'll probably be a little bit quiet for a while. I'll post soon on the PowerPC code patches that make this ROM go. Have fun!

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #170 on: February 01, 2018, 06:40:29 AM »
  I2S bus - alright that's quite interesting.  I wasn't really expecting that, but good to know.  I also wasn't expecting there to be a PCI USB controller, nor an ordinary PCI bus - are these actually discrete and exposed?  That would be far more exciting to exploit than a serial bus, however difficult or unlikely that prospect might be.  Presumably the internal USB port connected to Bluetooth could also be converted into an additional standard port using a port driver chip.

  Crazy thoughts, I know.  I'll quit musing about this for now until more progress is made on basic operation of the Mini in OS 9.  I only like to think about such things because I never wanted a Mini originally due to the lack of decent expandability.  I'm still considering getting one of the much later models with Thunderbolt when the prices finally get down to reasonable.

<update>
Somewhat answering my own question here after studying photos at a couple links:

https://www.mini-itx.com/news/13909018/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1596/9

  USB controller is BGA type - not so fun to mess with.  The Broadcom network chip appears to be pin-style though.
Almost all laptops even have a pci bus.  I guess it's possible to hack a connector on any machine, but the traces on the logic board will not be designed for a connector and would require some physical wires.  Not sure if all the IRQ lines would be there since it is for internal use.  Same goes for the internal USB controller.  It's integrated into the chip and probably doesn't really expose any pins (assumption not fact).  So they are just the type of connection between the IO, North Bridge and CPU.  Not a physical looking bus like you are acustomed to see in desktop computers.  This is not mac specific either.
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #171 on: February 10, 2018, 02:01:41 PM »
Hi guys. Here's the latest hacked-up image. I've started a new rotation at uni so I'll probably be a little bit quiet for a while. I'll post soon on the PowerPC code patches that make this ROM go. Have fun!

@ELN, I think your download is corrupt, doesn't have the type tbxi...

Maybe drop stuff it.

 

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #172 on: February 12, 2018, 01:31:39 AM »
I do NOT have any other OS9 machines, but just have this one g4 mini. Too format the drive with OS 9 drivers, it would not let me in Disk Utility, so I booted off a Tiger DvD and opened up the terminal. I typed "diskutil eraseDisk" and that showed me I can use this command : "diskutil eraseDisk format vol_name [OS9Drivers] { mount_point | device }" so to format my internal I entered in "diskutil eraseDisk HFS+ OS9 OS9Drivers /dev/disk0". Then I opened diskutility and got info on my Disk and sure enough there were 10 partitions and it said that OS9 drivers were installed. Next I booted off a Leopard external FW Lacie disk and copied over the entire contents of a generic os 9 cd (white with orange 9, install cd, it was 9.2.1) onto the OS9 disk I had made, emptied the Extensions, replaced the ROM, then blessed in terminal. I shut down, entered open firmware and typed in the commands mentioned earlier, then I booted to a flashing ? on a floppy disk. Did it not detect my HD? I entered the 9.2.1 generic CD and then I booted until finally a bomb when loading 2nd extension. What do I do to get it recognized, so I can boot with no extensions and the special ROM?? Also about the boot3 resource to system suitcase, how would I go about doing that?
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #173 on: February 13, 2018, 06:59:11 AM »
Open ELN's Mac OS ROM in ResEdit, open the 'boot' resource, copy 3. Open the System suitcase in resedit, open the 'boot' resource, paste 3, save, reboot.

If screen res and color depth don't work, I think I can cook up an 'NDRV' for the mini.

I don't have one, so someone with need to:

Code: [Select]
dev agp/@10/@0 .properties
I need the " compatible" property from one of the display outputs.

The display may not be @0, so you may need:


Code: [Select]
dev screen .properties

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #174 on: February 13, 2018, 09:49:18 AM »
  I just snagged a 1.5GHz G4 Mini on eBay, so I'll officially be able to help with this project once it arrives!

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #175 on: February 14, 2018, 12:07:50 AM »
I have not tried copying the boot3 over yet, but will soon. To install Mac OS 9.2.2, I installed the Unsupported G4's version onto Qemu, and as it is saved in an img file I just restored the Mac mini's OS partition from the img. Then replaced the ROM and emptied extensions. I have got OS9 drivers installed from terminal. Though if I boot from from the hd, I don't even get to a bomb, it's just a q mark. The internal hd does show however as MacOSLives with a Finder badge, if I hold alt on startup. Do I simply have to install it over target disk mode with an OS 9 Mac?

Since resedit was an OS 9 thing I also have to copy boot3 from there are then restore the mini again. When the flashing q mark shows, I had this "Rescue and Install CD", and if I insert that it starts booting until bomb, so I tried taking the contents of that CD and just took out the extensions, burnt it, now if I insert the new Compact Disc after booting from the hd, it remains a flashing q mark. I have blessed the image before I burnt it and blessed the hd. So is it just that I need an OS 9 Mac to install OS 9 onto the mini over a fw400 cable? Maybe because it installs stuff on the other nine partitions on the same disk?
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #176 on: February 14, 2018, 03:02:49 AM »
Not sure, you may not have a properly blessed system folder.

I've had random luck blessing it from the terminal in OS X.

Try:

Code: [Select]
bless -folder9 "/Volumes/HD Volume/System Folder"



Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #177 on: February 14, 2018, 04:27:27 AM »
I got it to a bomb now. I mounted my disk image and typed diskutil list. There were 7 slices on the image and disk utility only let me restore the 7th one. So I unmounted my internal, and the disk image and from terminal typed
Code: [Select]
hdid -nomount "/Volumes/USB/OS9MINI.img" (mount as block device only)

then
Code: [Select]
dd if=/dev/disk3 of=/dev/disk0 bs=131072 (copy entire image to internal hard disk)

then
Code: [Select]
sudo bless -folder9 "/Volumes/OS 9 MINI/System Folder" (blessed) Thanks for the command, I forgot the 9.

Booted into the Open Firmware and typed out the goods then booted to Mac OS 9 loading screen and bombed saying address error, so I will copy over the boot3 thing again and see if that works.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 05:57:02 AM by RossDarker »
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #178 on: February 14, 2018, 06:04:39 AM »
So as I said I have been using Qemu to install OS9 (and modify the install) onto img files then restore them to the Mac mini's internal hard drive. I have copied the boot resource with ID 3 over to both the "Classic" and "System" files inside of the System Folder but keep getting address errors when I boot. I then edited it on a Tiger drive through Classic Environment. I am using another System Folder on the Tiger HD, to edit the one on the internal HD. This is what the Classic and System suitcase look like after I have edited them:
https://imgur.com/i23fDMW
What else would need changing to get past the address error?
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #179 on: February 14, 2018, 06:20:07 AM »
So as I said I have been using Qemu to install OS9 (and modify the install) onto img files then restore them to the Mac mini's internal hard drive. I have copied the boot resource with ID 3 over to both the "Classic" and "System" files inside of the System Folder but keep getting address errors when I boot. I then edited it on a Tiger drive through Classic Environment. I am using another System Folder on the Tiger HD, to edit the one on the internal HD. This is what the Classic and System suitcase look like after I have edited them:
https://imgur.com/i23fDMW
What else would need changing to get past the address error?

I'm not sure what's going wrong, you may be using the wrong Mac OS ROM file, ELN linked a few. The last one in post #169 should allow boot, but it's not a valid :tbxi when I download it.

Try and find the last one he posted before that, other than that, sorry I can't be more helpful, I don't have a G4 Mini to play along with, only a PowerBook6,8.


Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #180 on: February 14, 2018, 06:37:31 AM »
So as I said I have been using Qemu to install OS9 (and modify the install) onto img files then restore them to the Mac mini's internal hard drive. I have copied the boot resource with ID 3 over to both the "Classic" and "System" files inside of the System Folder but keep getting address errors when I boot. I then edited it on a Tiger drive through Classic Environment. I am using another System Folder on the Tiger HD, to edit the one on the internal HD. This is what the Classic and System suitcase look like after I have edited them:
https://imgur.com/i23fDMW
What else would need changing to get past the address error?

I'm not sure what's going wrong, you may be using the wrong Mac OS ROM file, ELN linked a few. The last one in post #169 should allow boot, but it's not a valid :tbxi when I download it.

Try and find the last one he posted before that, other than that, sorry I can't be more helpful, I don't have a G4 Mini to play along with, only a PowerBook6,8.

I tried the latest ROM a few days ago, but like you said about the tbxi, when I typed
Code: [Select]
boot hd:,\\:tbxi after all the other commands, it didn't want to boot like that.
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #181 on: February 14, 2018, 06:38:57 AM »
And I forgot to mention, I am using the ROM file that was inside a .bin, which is the one I think before the latest.
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #182 on: February 14, 2018, 07:09:08 AM »
And I forgot to mention, I am using the ROM file that was inside a .bin, which is the one I think before the latest.

I think you have the correct one, the one from post 143?

I was able to get to the desktop on my PowerBook6,8 with that one, but the finder never started, tho the system stayed running.

One the Mac mini it should get you to the desktop, but the system won't be usable at all, as there is no USB.

Make sure you are booting with no extensions in the extension folder.

I think we're all in the same boat here, waiting on a valid :tbxi before we can do much else.


Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #183 on: February 14, 2018, 07:13:00 AM »
And I forgot to mention, I am using the ROM file that was inside a .bin, which is the one I think before the latest.

I think you have the correct one, the one from post 143?

I was able to get to the desktop on my PowerBook6,8 with that one, but the finder never started, tho the system stayed running.

One the Mac mini it should get you to the desktop, but the system won't be usable at all, as there is no USB.

Make sure you are booting with no extensions in the extension folder.

I think we're all in the same boat here, waiting on a valid :tbxi before we can do much else.

Yes I am using the ROM from post 143, and this is the one I get the address error with, so might just have to wait for a bit, but you see I have done the same things as ry755 has done, and he managed to get to the desktop, so I must have gone wrong somewhere, not sure where though.
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #184 on: February 14, 2018, 07:21:05 AM »
I have put all the Extensions into the Extensions (Disabled) folder. Though before I get the bomb, 1 icon is shown in the bottom left.
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #185 on: February 14, 2018, 07:53:05 AM »
This has probably nothing to do with it but I noticed that in the ROM from post 143, in the Boot Script, MacRISC2 was spelt MacRiSC2, with that lower-case i

Could that change anything if it was a capital?
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #186 on: February 14, 2018, 08:37:58 AM »
I have put all the Extensions into the Extensions (Disabled) folder. Though before I get the bomb, 1 icon is shown in the bottom left.

You shouldn't see any icons.

Even if you boot with the shift key, there are some extension that will load before.....

See if you can hold the space bar and get into the extension manager before you get the bomb.

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #187 on: February 14, 2018, 08:47:09 AM »
I have put all the Extensions into the Extensions (Disabled) folder. Though before I get the bomb, 1 icon is shown in the bottom left.

You shouldn't see any icons.

Even if you boot with the shift key, there are some extension that will load before.....

See if you can hold the space bar and get into the extension manager before you get the bomb.

I cannot get into the extensions manager or extensions off with shift key, but my extensions folder is empty.
This is the 1 and only icon I see in bottom left: https://imgur.com/HyD1zym
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #188 on: February 14, 2018, 09:36:30 AM »
I have put all the Extensions into the Extensions (Disabled) folder. Though before I get the bomb, 1 icon is shown in the bottom left.

You shouldn't see any icons.

Even if you boot with the shift key, there are some extension that will load before.....

See if you can hold the space bar and get into the extension manager before you get the bomb.

I cannot get into the extensions manager or extensions off with shift key, but my extensions folder is empty.
This is the 1 and only icon I see in bottom left: https://imgur.com/HyD1zym

  That's the PC File Exchange extension.  The file may be partially damaged, rendering it invisible in the Finder.  I've seen this happen before.  If that were the case, unless you can use a disk repair program on another machine your next best option would be to remove the existing Extensions folder entirely from the System Folder and create a new Extensions folder that you know will be completely empty.  The extension you're seeing is entirely optional to have present - if you don't need PC partition access on that machine then you don't need the extension at all.  Even if it's not damaged I don't think you have any other recourse at the moment.

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #189 on: February 14, 2018, 10:47:09 AM »
I have put all the Extensions into the Extensions (Disabled) folder. Though before I get the bomb, 1 icon is shown in the bottom left.

You shouldn't see any icons.

Even if you boot with the shift key, there are some extension that will load before.....

See if you can hold the space bar and get into the extension manager before you get the bomb.

I cannot get into the extensions manager or extensions off with shift key, but my extensions folder is empty.
This is the 1 and only icon I see in bottom left: https://imgur.com/HyD1zym

  That's the PC File Exchange extension.  The file may be partially damaged, rendering it invisible in the Finder.  I've seen this happen before.  If that were the case, unless you can use a disk repair program on another machine your next best option would be to remove the existing Extensions folder entirely from the System Folder and create a new Extensions folder that you know will be completely empty.  The extension you're seeing is entirely optional to have present - if you don't need PC partition access on that machine then you don't need the extension at all.  Even if it's not damaged I don't think you have any other recourse at the moment.

In the Control Panels folder there was something called File Exchange, that had the same icon as the one I showed you. I deleted it and rebooted, the icon did not show but I still got an address error Bomb. The boot resource ID 3 is still in the System Suitcase.
https://imgur.com/W68BizS
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #190 on: February 14, 2018, 11:33:39 AM »
We know you're using the right Rom, so something must be wrong with the System suitcase.

You may want to try:


Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #191 on: February 14, 2018, 12:08:51 PM »
We know you're using the right Rom, so something must be wrong with the System suitcase.

You may want to try:

Unfortunately, that new Suitcase didn't seem to change anything, still got a bomb, if I was to restore an entire Generic 9.2.1 CD to the HD, and update the ROM and Suitcase, that could work so I will try that, unless you can think of why else this is happening.
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #192 on: February 14, 2018, 12:51:29 PM »
We know you're using the right Rom, so something must be wrong with the System suitcase.

You may want to try:

Unfortunately, that new Suitcase didn't seem to change anything, still got a bomb, if I was to restore an entire Generic 9.2.1 CD to the HD, and update the ROM and Suitcase, that could work so I will try that, unless you can think of why else this is happening.

The CD restore was not recognised and a restore from a clean generic install with updated Mac OS ROM and System Suitcase did the same as the Unsupported G4's install, with updated ROM and Suitcase. Not sure what's gone wrong.
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #193 on: February 14, 2018, 02:25:25 PM »
We know you're using the right Rom, so something must be wrong with the System suitcase.

You may want to try:

Unfortunately, that new Suitcase didn't seem to change anything, still got a bomb, if I was to restore an entire Generic 9.2.1 CD to the HD, and update the ROM and Suitcase, that could work so I will try that, unless you can think of why else this is happening.

The CD restore was not recognised and a restore from a clean generic install with updated Mac OS ROM and System Suitcase did the same as the Unsupported G4's install, with updated ROM and Suitcase. Not sure what's gone wrong.
 

What Mini do you have?

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #194 on: February 14, 2018, 02:59:54 PM »
We know you're using the right Rom, so something must be wrong with the System suitcase.

You may want to try:

Unfortunately, that new Suitcase didn't seem to change anything, still got a bomb, if I was to restore an entire Generic 9.2.1 CD to the HD, and update the ROM and Suitcase, that could work so I will try that, unless you can think of why else this is happening.

The CD restore was not recognised and a restore from a clean generic install with updated Mac OS ROM and System Suitcase did the same as the Unsupported G4's install, with updated ROM and Suitcase. Not sure what's gone wrong.
 

What Mini do you have?

A1103
PowerMac10,1
1.42GHz
256 MB RAM (thats what it says on the box but when I got off ebay it had 512MB)
80GB ATA Hard Drive
ATI Radeon 9200 graphics
56K Modem
Slot loading Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
One FW400 port
2 USB 2.0 Ports
No AirPort/Bluetooth installed
Preinstalled OS 10.3.7
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #195 on: February 15, 2018, 03:40:03 AM »
Do I need to use any other commands, these are currently what I am using:
Code: [Select]
dev /
 " MacRISC" encode-string " MacRISC2" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property
dev /
1303ffff encode-int " AAPL,debug" property
dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4
80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property
boot hd:,\\:tbxi
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #196 on: February 15, 2018, 04:51:55 AM »
Do I need to use any other commands, these are currently what I am using:
Code: [Select]
dev /
 " MacRISC" encode-string " MacRISC2" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property
dev /
1303ffff encode-int " AAPL,debug" property
dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4
80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property
boot hd:,\\:tbxi



The Rom you have should really only need the AAPL,debug property set, it's already hacked to include RISC3 and the 7447a cpu.

One thing you may try is a System Folder with only the Mac OS ROM/ Finder/ System( suitcase ).

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #197 on: February 15, 2018, 05:10:57 AM »
Do I need to use any other commands, these are currently what I am using:
Code: [Select]
dev /
 " MacRISC" encode-string " MacRISC2" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property
dev /
1303ffff encode-int " AAPL,debug" property
dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4
80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property
boot hd:,\\:tbxi



The Rom you have should really only need the AAPL,debug property set, it's already hacked to include RISC3 and the 7447a cpu.

One thing you may try is a System Folder with only the Mac OS ROM/ Finder/ System( suitcase ).

What I did now was take everything out of the root, just keep System Folder, put ROM, System (Updated Versions) in and the Finder from a Generic install CD and now I am finally at the desktop, thanks. Also the clock in the top right is still changing every minute.
https://imgur.com/fAmjL6x

It seems that I have to keep deleting everything for it to boot so I will start slimming it down until I can find which folder is causing the problem.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 05:24:57 AM by RossDarker »
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #198 on: February 15, 2018, 05:47:16 AM »
I have found that deleting "System Resources" in the System Folder will get me past the address error. It is remade every time the OS 9 is booted and so needs deleting every time for me.
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #199 on: February 15, 2018, 08:28:05 AM »
Right now I am going through every extension to see which ones will still allow me to boot to the desktop, and strangely I was a bit though all of the extensions when I added the Audio Extension - when I booted into OS 9, the light on my mouse lit up and I could move the mouse around, but this was still on the Mac OS 9.2 loading screen, and the loading bar did not progress any more than half way. Took the extension out again, booted to the desktop but no USB.
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #200 on: February 15, 2018, 09:57:23 AM »
ELN got USB working, we just don't have a valid download of his latest ROM.

I'm wondering if the conflict we are seeing with Sound and USB on some of these later Mac's is related to the Modem.

I think it is a USB device, but it has a connection to the sound device.

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #201 on: February 15, 2018, 10:18:01 AM »
ELN got USB working, we just don't have a valid download of his latest ROM.

I'm wondering if the conflict we are seeing with Sound and USB on some of these later Mac's is related to the Modem.

I think it is a USB device, but it has a connection to the sound device.

Okay, nice. It will be good to have USB. I have managed to get a lot of extensions working, but even that is a small portion of the ones I am testing. I can use a whole install of the Unsupported G4's with ROM, System suitcase and most Extensions I have tested, but do you know why I have to delete "System Resources" to pass the address error? Every boot that file is re-created.
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #202 on: February 15, 2018, 01:31:37 PM »
  Great news on the USB issue.  Makes me even more excited about my Mini that is currently in transit.  I'd be quite interested to hear ELN chime in here on an updated explanation of the error and of the nature of what was done to resolve it.

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #203 on: February 15, 2018, 07:12:31 PM »
Hi guys,

I'm really sorry that last ROM gave you trouble! Uni has gone back for the year so I've been busy. Here's a repost in a couple of formats.

The technique I used to patch the necessary PowerPC code was a bit tricky. I have been working to document and harden my rather delicate ROM build system (now approaching its second birthday). Soon, I hope to have you all building and testing your own ROMs!

In broad terms, I just nopped out a function call from the USB interface driver to the NativePowerMgrLib.

But I have very little insight into this System Resources error! Can I suggest installing MacsBug on your boot drive and posting a picture of the error screen?

Best,

Elliot

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #204 on: February 16, 2018, 04:37:02 AM »
My USB keyboard and mouse are working when it boots which is good with this new ROM, thanks. Now I have got an address error again, and it doesn't go away with the things I have tried last time. I installed MacsBug onto the drive and when it booted I typed StdLog and the images are attached. There is a picture of the address error before I installed MacsBug in there too. Also will note that I have tried to get back to what I had yesterday but just end up at an address error by doing exactly the same things so there must be something in the other partitions that are made when making os9 drivers, even though it was the same restore. <- restore then pram zap fixed it, but still address error with the USB rom.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 07:27:30 AM by RossDarker »
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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #205 on: February 17, 2018, 10:42:48 AM »
https://github.com/elliotnunn/mac-rom
Output: BuildResults/RISC/Image/RomMondo

https://github.com/elliotnunn/powermac-rom
Input: RomMondo.bin
Output: BuildResults/PowerROM

https://github.com/elliotnunn/newworld-rom
Input: rom
Output: tbxi

Who's ready to get building?

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #206 on: February 18, 2018, 06:35:29 PM »
The technique I used to patch the necessary PowerPC code was a bit tricky. I have been working to document and harden my rather delicate ROM build system (now approaching its second birthday). Soon, I hope to have you all building and testing your own ROMs!

Best,

Elliot

Ahhh, teaching us how to fish instead of just handing out the fish... excellent :)

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #207 on: February 20, 2018, 03:34:57 PM »
Has anyone tried the Apple CD/DVD driver on the Mini?

It's not working on the PowerBook.

Even disabling the extension and putting an HFS CD into the drive hangs the Finder before it starts, but that's not unexpected as an HFS CD has the Apple CD/DVD driver in it's partition map.

Only real reason it matters is it's going to be hard to make a bootable iso for people to test and install if the disc hangs the finder.


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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #208 on: February 22, 2018, 12:36:50 PM »
Good news, nobody sharked my bid for a Mini on Ebay, so I'll have one in about a week 8)

I should be able to get 2D/3D working on it, I've figured out how all the ATI drivers work.

That's my part, I don't do assembly. I know some C C++, and I've made a few device drivers for OS X, but most of the stuff ELN and nanopico talk about is way over my head.

 

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #209 on: February 22, 2018, 12:47:32 PM »
That's my part, I don't do assembly. I know some C C++, and I've made a few device drivers for OS X, but most of the stuff ELN and nanopico talk about is way over my head.
You might be suprised how quickly you get used to it. I certainly was.

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #210 on: February 22, 2018, 05:40:02 PM »
Hello fellow Mac Mini users!  :D My name is Tim. I have recently acquired a 1.42 PowerPC Mac Mini, and have read up on the thread. I am getting it tomorrow, and I'm hoping to contribute to this cause! I see you've all made ground breaking work in the past few months!! Keep it up!  ;D ;D

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #211 on: February 22, 2018, 06:45:40 PM »
You might be suprised how quickly you get used to it. I certainly was.

Daniel sure was quick!

Quick confession about the patch that I made to the USB class driver to get it to work without a PMU: I "saved" it in a scrollback buffer that I very quickly lost. But with some wrangling it has been recovered!

https://github.com/elliotnunn/mac-rom/commit/ac2112a

The complementary patch to NativePowerMgrLib is in the newworld-rom repo.

https://github.com/elliotnunn/newworld-rom/commit/0b73e80

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #212 on: February 22, 2018, 06:57:00 PM »
Good news, nobody sharked my bid for a Mini on Ebay, so I'll have one in about a week 8)


congrats!

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #213 on: February 23, 2018, 11:05:23 PM »
  I just snagged a 1.5GHz G4 Mini on eBay, so I'll officially be able to help with this project once it arrives!

I received my Mini today.  Mildly unfortunate - what showed up was a 1.42GHz instead of the 1.5GHz model it was listed as.  (I'll bitch at the seller tomorrow.)  On the up-side, it has 1GB of RAM.

  I went straight into testing a 9.2.2 drive that I've been using for awhile in another machine.  It was made from the "Unsupported G4s ASR", and I believe it's the one that I was using in the 9serve.  I attached it via firewire so I could leave the OS X install on the internal drive intact.  The only thing I swapped out was the Mac OS ROM file.  The disk was selected for boot using the option key method.

  Amazingly, only a single extension out of everything I normally have enabled broke the boot - "Apple Audio Extension".  After disabling that it booted properly, obviously without audio support, but it booted extremely fast.  Video detected a single resolution of 1920x1080, which is correct for this monitor, but predictably it's only offering 256-color mode.  Something is causing a Finder crash when it reaches the desktop but I have yet to determine what it is.  One weird thing is that the Apple menu won't enable the submenu for the Control Panels folder.

  There is one strange twist with the disabling of the PMU device.  For some reason the system identifies this Mini model as an iBook.  Without power management loading the system obviously complains when reaching the desktop that the software is missing.  The weird part is that after a few minutes of use a warning came up saying the system was low on power, as if it was running on a battery, and then promptly shut down because it thought it needed to protect itself.  I removed the Energy Saver control panel to prevent this from happening again, leading to the missing software warning every boot.

  Everything else seems to work.  The AppleTalk control panel even states there's a serial port available, presumably because it recognizes the modem.

  Now for the coolest part - I'm posting this from Classilla running on this Mini!  (This is getting a bit challenging on Classilla because compatibility with this forum is not as good as it used to be.)

Edit - One additional note - The device info for the Radeon 9200 in this thing is as follows:

Device name: "ATY,RockHopper2_A"
Chipset: "ATY,RV280"
Device ID: 5962
ROM: 113-xxxxx-116
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 12:21:36 AM by MacOS Plus »

Offline macStuff

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #214 on: February 24, 2018, 07:47:43 AM »
wonder if the device ID extension edit fix of user Bolle's would help you out there?
DeviceID: 5962 (instead of Bolle's 9200SE with the id of 5961?)

both of them are RV280 gpus

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #215 on: February 24, 2018, 09:33:55 PM »
  No luck on the 2D acceleration yet.  I don't know if I'm doing it wrong or if something more has to be changed.

  I do have one minor thing to report on related to the Finder crash and warning message about missing system software.  (The exact text of that message was as follows - "Your computer can't sleep because some system software is missing.  Reinstall the software that came with your computer.  [Shut Down] [OK]")  Just to see what would happen, I did the "screamer" OF edit to the sound device using the commands from one of the iBooks.  The Apple Audio Extension no longer crashes the boot with this change in place.  Oddly though, the Finder crash and the missing system software warning at the desktop also went away.  The sound device itself doesn't appear in the Sound control panel though and obviously doesn't work.  Perhaps this experience will help someone sort out how to correct it properly though.

  I'm still really curious about why the AppleTalk control panel reports "Modem/Printer port" available and doesn't complain when I select it and save the setting.  System Profiler doesn't know the internal modem is present, but even after physically disconnecting the modem card from the motherboard, some other device is still recognized as this 'phantom' serial port.  I'd really like to know what's going on here and whether or not this means I could hack in a true serial port in place of the modem or via whatever other data path this detected port is showing up on.  You'll recall on the 9serve that I had to use the Stealth driver to make the built-in serial port appear to AppleTalk.  Serial ports only show up in AppleTalk without 3rd-party assistance if they are physically present as a standard serial device (or perhaps emulated, but I think that's unlikely).  I find it hard to believe that I'm seeing a 'false positive' here.  Is it a populated debug port?

  Another thing I'm wondering about is to do with the USB ports.  System Profiler reports three USB ports present - Ports 1 and 2 are the external ones, while Port 0 which comes first I can only assume is for the bluetooth card.  My Mini doesn't have the mezzenine board for Airport/bluetooth, so I can't prove it.  The bluetooth card that would go in a G4 Mini appears to be the same one that is in the MDD.  I've seen a reference online showing which pins are the USB data lines on the bluetooth connector, and the implication is that you could probably get a functional extra USB port wired from here in place of the bluetooth.  You just would have to pull the USB power from somewhere else, or at the very least dedicate a powered hub to this connection.

  Does anyone need to see NanoKernel Logs from my Mini or are we past that stage now?  If we don't need it anymore I'd like to be able to boot this ROM with the function disabled so it quits getting in the way.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 09:53:12 PM by MacOS Plus »

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #216 on: February 25, 2018, 02:37:25 AM »
Quote
Does anyone need to see NanoKernel Logs from my Mini or are we past that stage now?  If we don't need it anymore I'd like to be able to boot this ROM with the function disabled so it quits getting in the way.

I too was wanting to disable this, you can close it with Command+F2.

There are a couple of resources in the ATI Graphics Accelerator that have the Device ID for the 9200, make sure you change them all.

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #217 on: February 25, 2018, 08:54:02 AM »
Quote
Does anyone need to see NanoKernel Logs from my Mini or are we past that stage now?  If we don't need it anymore I'd like to be able to boot this ROM with the function disabled so it quits getting in the way.

I too was wanting to disable this, you can close it with Command+F2.

There are a couple of resources in the ATI Graphics Accelerator that have the Device ID for the 9200, make sure you change them all.

  I'm pretty sure I changed those also, but I'll double-check.

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #218 on: February 25, 2018, 08:33:45 PM »
I've been poking around at the ATI extensions with HexEdit, and have noted the following:

- ATI Graphics Accelerator - resource fork contains 5960
- ATI Resource Manager - data fork contains 5961
- ATI Video Accelerator - resource fork contains 5960

  Changing all the values to 5962 still hasn't got acceleration working.  The ATI Graphics Accelerator extension always has an X through it during startup.

  I was looking at a listing of ATI device entries online here:

https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2007-February/022012.html

  There are entries for 5960, 5961 and 5962 with official ATI device type titles.  I looked for other values in the list related to the RV280 to see if I could find them in the extensions.  Changing a couple others didn't help either.  So I'm stuck so far - hopefully someone else will have more luck.  It's probably something really stupidly simple.  I presume this isn't going to work until the driver loads properly in the first place, which would be indicated by having all the modes available in the Monitors control panel.  Nothing I've changed gave me any options other than the 1920x1080 / 256 color mode it is locked to.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 08:55:51 PM by MacOS Plus »

Offline grhmhome

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #219 on: February 25, 2018, 11:37:28 PM »
I bought a G4 Mac Mini and upgraded the system to 1GB of ram in December. I was originally going to run only Morph OS, but I love Mac OS 9, and would rather run that. I miss playing Glider Pro. I used to run Mac OS 9 when I had a G4 eMac. This is the system I have. https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_mini/specs/mac_mini_g4_1.33.html

I'm willing to use my machine as a beta test machine to attempt to get Mac OS 9.x to install as I spent only $16.99 USD + shipping.

Offline ELN

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #220 on: February 26, 2018, 02:57:56 AM »
I too was wanting to disable this, you can close it with Command+F2.

Whoa… how did you know about that?!

Offline Daniel

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #221 on: February 26, 2018, 03:29:51 AM »
I too was wanting to disable this, you can close it with Command+F2.

Whoa… how did you know about that?!
I don't know how the history behind it, but it looks like a simple screen refresh. It cleans the screen, but the NK keeps putting up log entries every once in a while.

Offline ELN

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #222 on: February 26, 2018, 03:40:41 AM »
Ah, darn.

Here is a fresh copy of the ROM using the new build system. It differs from Mac OS ROM 9.6.1 in only these ways:
  • mini-usb-hack applied to USB controller ndrv (a ROM resource)
  • mini-pmu-hack applied to NativePowerMgrLib nlib (parcel)
  • No System Enabler in tbxi resource fork (so no "Mac OS ROM" line in About This Computer)
  • Boot script sets G4 version to 80010201 and machine model to "PowerMac6,3" (MDD G4), and declares itself to be compatible with MacRISC, MacRISC2, MacRISC3 and MacRISC4
  • Parcels structure has different pad bytes because Apple's build tool left a buffer uninitialised

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #223 on: February 26, 2018, 09:26:42 AM »
  Command+F2 didn't close it for me, although I have QuicKeys installed and it may be interfering with that key combo somehow.

  Perhaps the change in machine type will allow me to put the Energy Saver control panel back in and also eliminate the false dead battery auto-shutdown.  I may be able to let my screen sleep then at least.  It appears the CPU fan speed is controlled by independent logic, as it apparently does in my TiBook, because it doesn't run at full speed.  Initially it does when first powering the system, but then it immediately settles down to a more 'relaxed' pace.

  I'll try that new ROM today and report back.

Update - New ROM causes bomb-crash error type 102 immediately after the Mac OS splash-screen appears.  I presume it has something to do with the issue/resolution described here:

http://www.thinkclassic.org/viewtopic.php?pid=305#p305

  Something about your change to the machine type?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 10:59:26 AM by MacOS Plus »

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Booting Mac Os 9 on Mac Mini.
« Reply #224 on: February 26, 2018, 11:18:28 AM »
  Upon closer inspection, ResEdit says the new ROM has no resource fork.  The previous ROM has it, although ResEdit throws a warning saying it had to perform a minor repair on it when the file is opened.  Could you check the new ROM file on your end?

  Would it be possible to eventually use the correct Mini machine identifier and add it to the name table so it displays correctly in System Profiler?