My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!

[supernova777]

i find it hard to believe that drive setup would be able to do this when panther 10.3.9's disk utility was unable to.. considering 10.3.9 was released as late as april 2005... but if u have done it then i guess you know!!

so are we to also take from this that any drive setup prior to 1.92 will fail at this while 1.92+ will succeed?

[twokayprod]

Thanks MacTron for the Drive Setup thingy 
The only thing I know for sure is that with 10.3.9 it doesn't work. Also, it doesn't work with my OS 9 Drive Setup, but I don't know which version it is. I'm gonna check MacTron's suggestion first, as this is the easiest way for me. If it doesn't work out, I'll try the way of the Tiger 
Anyway, I'll let you guys know - probably on the weekend.

Hopefully we'll find a good solution for this. The Samsung Evo is a quite popular SSD at a good price, so others might consider this too. I wanted to go for an OWC Legacy first, but with shipping and all I would have payed twice the price of the Evo.

[supernova777]

interested to know how this works out;)
i have a feeling it wont work  but mactron might be right hehe

[twokayprod]

Alright, here we go:

I went to my studio yesterday, armed with an USB-Stick containing MacTron's Drive Setup 1.9.2 and a CD with OSX Tiger Disk 1 as linked by chrisNova777. I checked out both solutions and the winner is........NEITHER!! tadaa 

By the way, my Drive Setup version was 2.0.7 (or 2.0.2, can't remember). However, I used version 1.9.2, the drive was recognized as a <not initialized> SCSI drive, so I clicked "Initialize", decided on 3 Partitions with 37GB each and clicked "Initialize" again. What I got was a "writing driver on the disk..." and a black/white circle. And it just stayed that way - exactly as mentioned above. The only way to get out of it was the tiny reset-button on the front of the G4.

Then I started with the Tiger CD, went to the Utilities tab, selected Disk Utility. It recognized the drive with manufacturer and model. I tried "Partition" first, then did a reset, same deal, tried "Erase" this time - and: nothing. I've attached a screenpic of this last try, but I don't think it is of any help.

Anyway, tomorrow I'll give the SSD to our keyboarder, he's a professional PC-and-network-programmer, we'll see how it goes. So far, this sucks big time!


Still, thanks for all your help and ideas 
If nothing works out, there's still the option of trying it with my MacBook...


the quest continues....

[supernova777]

unless u saw this screen.. and changed the partition map type
 u didnt do it right

(you need to change to apple partition map)

if that option doesnt show with tiger.. you may need a leopard dvd

it should be under partitions > options

[MacTron]

Maybe there is something in this new Samsung’s new 850 EVO SSD model that make it incompatible with our old systems:

"... Samsung’s new 850 EVO SSD product line is powered by the company’s new MGX controller, The defining element of the 850 EVO is its three-dimensional flash that host three bits per cell.
The 850 EVO's 256-bit AES encryption is compliant with the TCG Opal 2.0 and IEEE 1667 standards, meeting the requirements for Microsoft's eDrive system..."

[twokayprod]

I did not buy an Evo 840 on purpose, because I've read a bunch of customer reviews that said it had a problem accessing older data due to a firmware bug that Samsung couldn't solve. So I went for the 850 instead, because it's supposed to be the same thing, but without the bug. Depends on the source of information I guess 

@chris: I don't think I missed the "Options", I'm not 100% sure, though. The only screen that showed up was the basic Disk Utility window. If there even was an "Options" button, it might have been greyed out. Otherwise I'm quite certain I would have clicked it. Damn! Maybe I should take the G4 home until everything runs smoothly. It's a pain in the behindypart that I have to drive 44 kilometers (however much this is in your weird unit) for every teensy bit of checking 

So yeah, maybe I made a mistake - I don't think so, but who knows.
I'll download the Leopard disk and try again tomorrow...

[MacTron]

I did not buy an Evo 840 on purpose, because I've read a bunch of customer reviews that said it had a problem accessing older data due to a firmware bug that Samsung couldn't solve.

I had one unit with this issue, but nowadays it is solved with a firmware update.

[supernova777]

the ability to do this partition type change of GUID would have been added in the tiger disk version that also supports intel installation.. i think it would have to be the 10.4.6 install dvd u may have downloaded the original 10.4.0 install cd (1/4) and that may be the reason why it was greyed out or non-existant because this option was not yet implemented.  (im guessing.. im unsure of this)

the option for GUID is definately 100% on the leopard dvd..

To check the external drive's partition scheme, open Disk Utility, select the drive in the list, choose File > Get Info, and look for the "Partition Type." If you can't see the "Partition Type," you may have selected the volume instead of the disk. (Drives are flush left, with their volumes indented to the right below them.)
You can change the partition scheme for the disk drive by repartitioning it. It's OK to create only one partition.

heres some instructions..
i would start by rebooting into the tiger install dvd and following the instructions here to view the partition type. using the "Get info" command detailed above. once u confirm that the drive is in GUID rather then APM then u will have confirmed the source of the problem, or ruled out the partition type as a cause altogether.

but, if the tiger 10.4.0 (original version of tiger) is 100% unaware of GUID partitions then it may not even be able to recognize the partition type.

[supernova777]

i just noticed there is also the option to download the 10.4.6 dvd from the same page i linked above.. (aswell as leopard, but i dont advise u download the leopard dvd because a) its huge.. b) u need to have a 8gb dual layer DVD to burn it.. and c) your dvd drive may or may not be able to read DL dvd)

this chart from wikipedia on GPT guid partiton types details that its supported since  10.4.0 but also "some features since 10.4.6"

[twokayprod]

Ah, thanks for this additional info 
The plan is to meet tonight with my PC-wizard-guy. I'm bringing my MacBook and the Tiger DVD, he's bringing a PC-laptop and a USB to SATA adapter (at least that's what I understood) and then - with all the options right there - we're gonna get this mofo 





....hopefully 

[twokayprod]

Woohoo, it finally worked 

My buddy needed to prepone our date, so there was no time for me to download 10.4.6. First thing I tried was 10.4.0 again, but as you can see in the first attached pic, there was no options button and therefore no way to change the partition type.
Then we connected the SSD via an USB - SATA adapter thingy to his windows laptop. He formatted the SSD with a MBR map, then I booted with OS9, but Drive Setup didn't work*. I did a reset, tried 10.4 - but nothing either (same deal as in my first post). Probably because Drive Setup kind of messed it up and 10.4 then had nothing to work with. So we did the exact same thing again and tried 10.4 instead, but again no luck. The SSD showed up on the desktop (first time ever), but it couldn't be initialized because Disk Utility could not unmount the drive My friend tried to unmount it with Terminal and also typed a few other weird letter combinations, but he was as clueless as I 

Next try was to connect the SSD to my MacBook (again USB - SATA thingy) running 10.8.5 - I then used Disk Utility to format the SSD with an APM, no problem. Then by accident booted the G4 with the installed 10.3.9 (instead of the Tiger CD) opened Disk Utility and initialized the SSD with OS9 drivers and 3 partitions of 37GB each. This finally worked, although OS9 showed up some errors with First Aid on those partitions (something like B-Tree header yadayadayada). I repaired them and voilá - everything seems to be perfectly fine now.

I'm off to put the OS9 on it and install MOTU drivers, Cubase and such in a couple of hours... 

I've attached a pic with the SSD info after the formatting with 10.8.5.


So here's a quick rundown of what worked in the end:
1. used a USB-to-SATA-adapter to connect the SSD to a MacBook running 10.8.5
2. Initialize the SSD with Disk Utility
3. Re-Initialize the SSD with Disk Utility of 10.3.9 to write the OS9 drivers and partition it the way I wanted
4. Use First Aid to repair those partitions (this last step seems a bit weird to me, but hey......)


I'm really thankful to you guys for helping me out  . Hopefully this thread can help others as well. I'll order myself a USB-SATA adapter thingy now - those are just a few bucks and true works of art 




*actually, Drive Setup showed a different thing. Instead of <not initialized> as before, it showed <not activated>. But it still froze after I clicked "initialize"...

[twokayprod]

Alright, this is a bit freaky and weird...

After my last post, it all crashed down on me again 
One of the three partitions I made on the SSD showed an error that could not be repaired with First Aid, so I tried partitioning the SSD again and had the same problems as in my posts above. On my way home then I brought the G4 along and bought a USB-SATA-adapter-thingy (Icy Box; 9,- bucks) and at home connected it to my MacBook and first erased, then partitioned the SSD anew. But as soon as I connected the SSD to the G4, there was no way of doing anything to it, because it could not be unmounted.
I'm trying again right at this very moment, erasing and partitioning the SSD with the MacBook, but this time connecting it to the G4 with the USB-adapter and that works. The funny thing is, Disk Utility (1st CD of 10.4) even shows up the "Options" button and I can select a partition type. It doesn't do that when the SSD is connected internally. Compare the picture of my last post and these two here.

This is weird, but it also means that the connection itself has to be the problem - meaning the Sonnet Tempo card, right? Once the SSD is connected to it, it can't be unmounted  and therefore not partitioned in either Drive Setup or Disk Utility. Does this make sense at all? And - more importantly - is this gonna be a problem? Is unmounting necessary for anything else than partitioning a drive?

I'm now gonna boot up with OS9 and see what happens...

[devils_advisor]

Ich weiss das klingt ein wenig lustig aber hast du je nach einer pata/ide SSD gesucht ? das koennte besser funktionieren ist aber etwas limitiert fuer die alte maschine. Der bus ist der flaschenhals.

[twokayprod]

Ah, ein Landsmann 
Nun hab ich die Sonnet Karte aber schon und die SSD auch. Ich hab gerade die SSD wieder eingebaut und OS9 hochgefahren. Es werden zumindest mal alle Partitionen angezeigt. Mal kucken, was Erste Hilfe sagt...
...HA! Alle 3 Partitionen sind OK.
Dann versuche ich jetzt einfach mal, OS9 auf die SSD zu installieren...

[devils_advisor]

viel glueck

[twokayprod]

Pech gehabt 
Konnte nicht installieren und das Volume ist nun beschädigt. Also das Ganze nochmal von vorn...

[devils_advisor]

Ich denke das spiel kannste ewig so machen und es wird nicht enden. Check mal die firmware von deiner sonnet und lies mal im handbuch was die limits sind weil die sind von os zu os anders. wie gesagt such dir ne ide version. nebenbei da ist nur eine sonnet karte mit os9 kompatibel von der ich weiss.

[twokayprod]

Den einen Versuch mach' ich noch und dann knobel ich mir was anderes aus...
Zur Not setz ich die SSD in's MacBook und kauf mir ne kompatible. Dumm nur, daß ich die OWCs bei uns nicht finde und mit Versand und MwSt aus Amiland schicken lassen, ist mir zu teuer...

[devils_advisor]

Lass den wert auf dem papier runter setzen dann kannste beim zoll vorbei kommen (ich lebe in den usa)

Versuch mal was anderes. anstatt installieren hol dir das dmg file von os9 und benutze (osx) disk utils um das auf die platte zu schreiben.

geh mal in den chat