Author Topic: good article re: 'mixing in the box' (channel faders vs master levels)  (Read 7265 times)

supernova777

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http://www.wiretotheear.com/2008/01/25/keep-your-channel-faders-low-and-the-master-at-0db/

while it may not be focused on mac os 9 .. and the picture shows ableton live's session view.. the same principles apply to all DAW's on all os.......

while some would never admit -- i know + can humbly admit that i wouldnt be the only one guilty of riding too hot on my channel faders + ignoring my master volume + speaker volumes etc
something thats very easy to do when your mind is focused moreso on producing the elements... so much that u slowly ruin your mix (this happens to me every track i do LOL) by changing the levels up a bit more and a bit more till u have no headroom at all and the balance between all the elements of the track is lost..



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Almost weekly I am asked for mixing advice. Usually after a few probing questions I discover that 90% of the people unhappy with their sound are making the same mistake. They are completely overdriving their internal summing bus! Take all your song’s individual channel faders and bring them at least -12db and keep the Master fader at 0dB at all times.

Look at your DAW’s mixer. Now imagine the volume of your individual channel fader’s adding up from left to right heading to your Master. If you keep your channel faders close to zero surely your Master will go over odB and clip. As we all know any clipping in the digital realm is very bad.

Why not keep your channel faders all hot and turn the master down? Because you will still be overdriving cheap plug-ins. Well written plug-ins can handle a hot signal but some of the coolest freeware and to be honest some big name effects clip internally when even a warm signal is shot at them. The worst part about this happening is there is no visual warning. All you know is your mixes just sound like crap.

the author:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaoJ0OLT7Qw[/youtube]

« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 07:49:54 PM by chrisNova777 »

Offline mrhappy

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supernova777

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did someone move this thread??  :'(
this article is NOT about "hardware"
this article is about technique of mixing INSIDE THE COMPUTER with software.. 
to avoid bad summing... "Bad mix"

please move this thread back to DAW reference area

i was just about to share this article which discusses the topic further
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep13/articles/level-headed.htm

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If you don't understand gain structure, you may be undermining your recordings and mixes without even realising it.

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the advice in this article all boils down to the need to allow headroom on all your DAW channels, but, due to the difference in metering types used in the analogue and digital domains, this can seem more complex in practice than it sounds. You could, if you wished, insert virtual VU or PPM meters on every channel of your mix, but I'm unaware of a DAW that allows you to change the channel metering in the mixer to an averaging type, so there's no way that you can see at a glance what all those insert meters are doing. We have to work with the tools at our disposal, although if you're working entirely in the box you don't need to mimic the analogue signal flow so precisely. You don't even need to think about the headroom of your interface's A-D or D-A converters, except in as much as it interfaces with your monitoring chain (another subject about which you'll find half-baked advice all over the Internet!). However, you can make use of those almost-useless peak meters.

If you take the sound with the highest peak levels and set it so that it peaks at between -12 and -18dBFS, you shouldn't run into problems with plug-ins or summing on the mix bus. If these figures look different to those I discussed in relation to analogue gear, remember that the meters are different, and you're actually leaving about the same 20dB headroom. I wouldn't expect to see peaks on the channel meters reading more than -8 to -10dBFS (and lower is often better). The highest level track in your mix will vary, but in rock and pop it's usually the kick or snare. Set a rough balance of your other tracks in relation to that track and you should be good to go.

this may be basic to some - but life changing to others who try to mix like analog in digital/"inside the box" daw mixing..
the first thing i would do when working on tracks is always jack up my kick to almost 0db and this is the worst thing u can do
when trying to get a good mix of alot of elements inside any computer based music program!

the simple advice of having the master level at 0db.. and the individual channel fasders backed off to between -12 & -18
makes for much better mixability in the software.. regardless of which app you use..  ableton.. vs reason.. vs cubase vs protools
this makes a huge difference in reason especially... i used to blame the program thinking the mixer sucked inside reason.. and that it
just sounds better when u use external audio out to a real mixer....or rewired to a different daw mxier like cubase/logic/dp

i really wish they made the levels have more visual resolution (literally "longer")
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 07:49:10 PM by chrisNova777 »


supernova777

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http://www.newallianceeast.com/how-do-i-make-itb-in-the-box-mixes-sound-like-analog-mixes/#.VP5y0-EYHao

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There should be a meter mode in all DAW's that makes the meter at 3/4 scale equal -20 at 1.23 volts. Just like the old VU. This way, novices will quit corn-holeing their levels.

Offline MacTron

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I have to confess I am the worst mixer in the world. And when I select a compressor, a nightmare comes to my head.
I have ended up usually with the Master lever meter 2 or 3 dB over the 0 limit! thanks god the Cubase 32 bit dithering can fix really well this "little" overdrive (but only if the mix is exported to 16 bits!) ... Any way, It sound way better than using a compressor. LOL
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

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this guys advice is the best advice i have read for me personally..
it really does help alot.
i always screw up levels when working on a track.
it starts out amazing and then i lose the balance + eventually give up on it

Offline IIO

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Here's a link that details that sort of thing.

http://akarchive.digidesign.com/support/docs/WhitePaper_48BitMixer.pdf

but please note that the 48 bit thing is a protools HD only issue.

all most other audio software sums signals in floating point, which gives you almost unlimited headroom.
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