ProTools 5 (Under Mac OS 9) Volume limits and Real World Testing

[DieHard]

FROM MEMBER LUKPAC... (Original Source, just for reference, unless you want to read 3 full pages):
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1941.0

Posted By Lukpac

So, anyone still running ProTools 5? I ran into a bit of a snag.

Everything is now booting fine, and I'm not having any issues accessing or opening files on any partition. However, while PT 5 is opening up sessions on the 100 GB partition just fine, if you copy them to one of the 970 GB partitions it isn't properly reading the files. Sometimes playback results in noise, while other times it results in a different file being played.

I can open the files in other editors, and they are fine. But PT 5 is having problems accessing them.

My question is, before I go too far trying to troubleshoot this, are there any known partition and/or disk size limits for PT 5? I'm hoping I can just repartition and have more smaller partitions, but I'm wondering if anyone knows offhand.

Issue/Problems:

Ok, finally got around to revisiting this. Spent a few hours repartitioning and testing. First thing's first: all setup was as follows:

Drive Setup 2.1 under OS 9.2.2
HFS+ partitions

While the suggestion was made to use HFS partitions instead, I did try that at one point, but ran into a (repeated) freeze when copying files, so I didn't bother any more with it.

At any rate, to recap, I had the drive partitioned into 100 GB and 970 GB volumes. All volumes worked fine for most programs, but Pro Tools (LE 5.0.1 and 5.1.1) wasn't working correctly on the 970 GB volumes:

And some previous comments/suggestions:

Do you know that a 2 TB drive will work with Pro Tools? How about a 1 TB drive? Do you have experience with this? How about partition size? How large of a partition can Pro Tools handle successfully?

From experience I can add that a 400gb drive partitioned with one partition that takes up the whole drive works just fine in Pro Tools 5.1.3cs11. No issues to report what so ever. The only problem was defragmentation, but that got solved anyway.

The only reason I put in the 200gb drive when the 400gb failed was because it was what I had laying around.

lukpac: excuse me when i didnt read the whole thread, but weren´t you mentioning you use 970 gb partitions? this could be the second alternative why things dont work. would be interesting to see if the protools problem goes away when you partition 4x500 on that 4000 disk.

Results/Findings (by Lukpac):

What I ended up doing was partitioning the drive, copying a session to a volume, and testing. With 5 volumes (419,430 MB volume size), Pro Tools wasn't working correctly, but with 6 (349,525 MB volume size), Pro Tools worked fine. From there I kept playing around with the size of the last partition (which, due to a bug in Drive Setup, would resize partitions 1-5 to 32 MB) until I found where the cutoff point was. And that point seems to be 418,815 MB. With a volume that size, Pro Tools seemed to run without problems. However, with a volume size of 418,816 MB, Pro Tools was playing back noise/incorrect audio/etc.

I also played around a little bit with volumes of different sizes. While there was some variability, it would appear that any partitions *after* a volume larger than 418,815 MB are likely to not work correctly. That said, I didn't play around with this too much; it seems much more prudent to make sure all of your volumes are below that size anyway.

At any rate, right now I've got the disk setup with 1 150 GB partition, 2 341 GB partitions, and 3 405 GB partitions. The reason the last 5 partitions aren't all the same size is Drive Setup has a bug where trying to make partitions 1-3 larger causes the UI to blow up, but doing the same for 4-6 is fine. So I made 1 smaller, left 2 and 3 at their default size, and expanded 4-6. I'm going to run a few things through the paces before I consider this 100% resolved, but so far so good: both 9.2.2 and 10.3.9 are booting from the 150 GB partition, and Pro Tools has been working fine with everything I've thrown at it from any partition.

Also worth noting that the maximum size you can allocate across all partitions is 2,097,152 MB.

Right now I don't have another large free drive to experiment with, but it would be interesting to see if anyone else could see if they are seeing the same thing with the 418,815 MB limit. My guess is that would see be an issue even with an old IDE drive, but again, I haven't been able to test that, yet anyway. It's at least something to work from though.

To all PT Users under Mac OS 9, please run some tests with large partitions (over 400GB) and post the results.

[lukpac]

As I posted in the other thread:

I just tested with my 500 GB IDE drive. Exactly the same results (418,815 MB partition works fine, 418,816 MB partition causes problems). So it would appear the large (4 TB) drive and PATA to SATA adapter had nothing to do with it.

[lukpac]

Two more things possibly worth noting:

1) I briefly experimented with partition placement. That is, placing partitions 418,815 MB or smaller before and after partitions larger than 418,815 MB. It *seems* like once you have a partition larger than 418,815 MB, any partitions after that will likely exhibit issues, although my testing was a bit inconsistent in that regard. That said, I didn't spend much time messing around with it; it seems to make the most sense to keep *all* partitions below that size.

2) The issues on partitions larger than 418,815 MB seem to vary depending on the session and the drive. Sometimes I would only get a small blip in one spot, but on another drive or with another session I'd get lots of static and/or audio from another file. That said I have not (yet, anyway; fingers crossed) experienced *any* issues with partitions 418,815 MB or smaller.

PT LE 5.0.1 and 5.1.1 seem to exhibit identical behavior. It would be interesting to know how other versions compare.

Oh, and I just realized I had been testing using AIFF files. I didn't think to test with SDII. Perhaps I'll try that at some point, although likely not any time soon.

[supernova777]

its a good thing u can still find 256 + 320gb drives

this article is good to keep in mind aswell re: seagate drives
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2244

[mrhappy]

Recently ran into some similar problems on two different systems.

1st problem was using Protools TDM rig (5.1.3) on OS 9.2.2... drive was 1TB external firewire(not partitioned).

Opened a session that I had been working on... everything looked fine till I hit play...all noise!! Tried a few repair efforts but wasn't getting anywhere so I wound up partitioning the drive into 3 partitions ...300ish Gigs apiece and haven't had any problems since... so far!

Next problem was using PT LE 5.2.1 (or whatever the 32 trk beta was numbered) on a 001 setup... OS 9.1. Drive is 500Gb (not partitioned) external firewire.

In this case I opened a session and all was looking good except when I hit play it would play the wrong tracks... stereo files would play half of one track and half of another!! Made for some 'interesting' sounds... NOT!!!

Opened a few other sessions and the same screwy thing happens!

Norton tells me that there is damage to the catalog file but gives up half way through the repair process. Haven't tried anything else yet but planning on trying Disc Warrior next.

Any other suggestions??

[supernova777]

honestly i dont know why u guys bother to use norton at all.
instead of just moving the data and wiping the disk.

i would never trust norton to process my drive.
the last time i trusted norton was back in the 80s/early 90s

[DieHard]

As documented here...

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=850.0

NOTES: We DO NOT recommend Using Norton "Disk Doctor" as it may cause damage on some OS 9.2.2 Volumes
Norton "Speed Disk" (defrag) is Safe for all Volumes <190GB

So basically, DO NOT RUN Norton Disk Doctor under 9.2.2; And again, as stated in our many defrag Chronicles, you will get "out of memory" errors and will not be able to run Norton Speed Disk for any Volumes larger than 200GB.

A few quick tips already mentioned in other posts...
1) Get an SSD (you never have to defrag. since there is the same file access time no matter how the fragments are stored)
2) Boot to a DVD (like Knez) and run and OSX defrag utility for volumes over 200GB

[supernova777]

3) move your files to another drive and reformat/repartition the drive;)

this wasnt an option back in the day using ATA-33 disk speed + 10/100 ethernet...  but in the days of gigabit ethernet + 100MB/s transfers..
its faster to move the data almost then to worry about defrag..
just wipe it;) (heres a tissue lol)

[mrhappy]

i haven't put norton on my 'new' TDM system but norton has been on the 001 system for the past 15ish years so I never bothered to remove as it HAS come in  handy a time or two. Same with the non-partitioned drives... Wasn't aware of the norton problem or the size limits until I started hanging around here!

I've partitioned any drives that i've installed and didn't install norton since...  and DO plan on i installing some SSD's when finance allows.

[supernova777]

SSDs are abit overkill for os9.. really u are only going to benefit from the access time...
at my local shop u can buy sata3 80gb drives for like 22$ that give me 100Mb/s when connected to
a sata pci card.. doesnt get any cheaper

[RTIInstaller]

honestly i dont know why u guys bother to use norton at all.
instead of just moving the data and wiping the disk.

i would never trust norton to process my drive.
the last time i trusted norton was back in the 80s/early 90s

Norton is evil.
I have worked on system where Norton wasn't Norton it was actually a malware clone pretending to be Norton.