Author Topic: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.  (Read 7500 times)

Offline MacTron

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Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« on: December 01, 2014, 12:39:59 PM »
I've tested three of the more common ways of using SATA on Mac Os 9 computers:

- A cheap SATA to PATA converter, connected to a ATA100 port.
- A Sil3112 based adapter, like Sonnet Tempo SATA, SeriTek/1S2 or similar flashed card.
- And a Seritek 1eVE2+2, a full length (64 bits) PCI card.

All of them were connected to the same Samsung 840 evo SSD in the same computer. (but not at the same time LOL)

Those are the results in MB/sec:



The SATA to PATA do a really good job, because it reaches the real limit of a ATA 100 bus. But both PCI cards have a bit disappointment results, especially the SIL3112 based, (most Sonnet users have complained about this), as its max transfer speed is far away from the 128MB/s of the 33 Mhz 32 Bits PCI bus, not to mention the 150MB/s of the standart sata 1 specifications. The Seritek 1eVE2+2 have a better result, but far away from the 256MB/s of the 33 Mhz 64 Bits PCI bus. Even Though this card achieved 190 MB/sec in the SSD raid test.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 01:00:01 PM by MacTron »
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Offline IIO

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2014, 02:37:26 PM »

great, thanks.

one could say using a PCI based SATA card to connect HDs only makes sense when you need the additional ports it gives you.

how do you think the 64 bit card would perform in a non 64 bit PCI slot?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2014, 02:39:56 PM »


how do you think the 64 bit card would perform in a non 46 bit PCI slot?


I bet a little better than SiI 3112
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

supernova777

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2014, 04:34:07 PM »
83mb/s is plenty fast enough tbh.. this speed is WAY faster then
any disk made in 2002 thats for damn sure!!
great job on this chart mactron;)
great reference... ;D  8)

Offline MacTron

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2015, 06:22:39 AM »
I have made new test, including the Acard 6290M.
This card perform worse than the SIL3112 based and very near to the SATA to PATA adapter results.
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Offline Apfel

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 04:31:28 PM »
In what G4 did you test the Cards?

Did you use XBench? Because XBench would explain the unrealistic speeds.

If you copy files by hand and stop the time and then calculate the speed you get the following in a G4 Sawtooth:
- PCI 32bit: 35MB/s max
- PCI-X 64bit in PCI 32bit Slot: 62MB/s max

Tested with:
- Sonnet 2x2 SATA-II PCI (SIL3124 chip), bootable
- "PC"-4xSATA-PCI-X card (SIL3124) with Mac drivers, not bootable
- Macally 2xSATA intern, 1x SATA extern, 1x IDE intern, PCI 32bit, bootable


On the paper the 32bit technology shouldn't be able to reach speeds like you got, anyway, IIRC.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 01:15:10 PM »
In what G4 did you test the Cards?
I did test in a G4 MDD.
Quote
Did you use XBench? Because XBench would explain the unrealistic speeds.
There isn't a Mac Os 9 version of XBench. AFAIK
Quote
If you copy files by hand and stop the time and then calculate the speed you get the following in a G4 Sawtooth:
You will obtain very different results, depending on the size and fragmentation of the files been copied.

Quote
- PCI 32bit: 35MB/s max
- PCI-X 64bit in PCI 32bit Slot: 62MB/s max

Tested with:
- Sonnet 2x2 SATA-II PCI (SIL3124 chip), bootable
- "PC"-4xSATA-PCI-X card (SIL3124) with Mac drivers, not bootable
- Macally 2xSATA intern, 1x SATA extern, 1x IDE intern, PCI 32bit, bootable
Typical results on SiL3124 and a slow HD.

Quote
On the paper the 32bit technology shouldn't be able to reach speeds like you got, anyway, IIRC.
You are wrong. The max speed of a 32 bits PCI bus is 132Mb/s.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 01:40:56 PM »
if i have to copy terabytes of files i do that under OSX and then files are copying with the theoretical read and write speed limits of the disks. (around 115 mb/s in my case)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline Bob_D

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 03:47:45 AM »
Keeping this tread alive!
I just tested ide>sata bridge vs pci digitus sil3512 with wiebe flash vs sonnet tempo with Intenso 120GB SSD. Powermac G4 Dual 450.
Startup-times +/- 40 sec bridge, +/- 60 sec Sil 3512 and 45 sec for Sonnet. Around 20 sec more for 2,5" hitachi HDD (sata).
Digitus card bootable in 10.4.11 with WiebeFlash (needed to manually install the wiebe kext) unable to install in 10.5.8 but recognized - not bootable but usable. Not seen in os 9!
So for compatibility, price and speed ide to sata bridge looks the best solution for older G4's if you want to use os 9 and osx.

Offline trag

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2018, 03:39:53 PM »
I have made new test, including the Acard 6290M.
This card perform worse than the SIL3112 based and very near to the SATA to PATA adapter results.

Some of Acard's early SATA products were exactly the same chips as their PATA product with a PATA to SATA bridge added just before the SATA connector.

Not sure about the 6290 in particular though.

Offline macStuff

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2018, 03:54:10 PM »
I have made new test, including the Acard 6290M.
This card perform worse than the SIL3112 based and very near to the SATA to PATA adapter results.

i can confirm that - as i have an acard 6290M here and i made a similar observation.
it doesnt really matter though because theres not many of these floating around for sale from what i can see they are somewhat rare to find now..
but it still works fine in raid formation and provides ability to do hardware RAID which is the most usefull purpose of the card rather than
being the #1 speed benchmark


Offline trag

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2018, 03:02:07 PM »
I like Acard's products.  My previous post was not meant as a criticism, just a reporting of facts.

Acard often wasn't the fastest, but I found their products to be solid and back in the day, their email support was pretty good, and they continued to respond to support emails for a number of years after they discontinued the Mac products.

I have about 40 AEC-6880 cards in the attic, that I'm going to convert to 6880M cards, one of these days.   Been meaning to do that for more than five years.   Just too much life in the way.

Offline macStuff

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2018, 05:35:30 PM »
i have a 6880M and that card gives some very good speeds!! despite being PATA x 4
i had used sata drives with each drive having a sata to IDE converter/adapter
and it was very good performance from the 6880M - but then again all that info is
here on the site

Offline DieHard

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2018, 07:03:07 PM »
Quote
I like Acard's products.  My previous post was not meant as a criticism, just a reporting of facts.

Acard often wasn't the fastest, but I found their products to be solid and back in the day, their email support was pretty good, and they continued to respond to support emails for a number of years after they discontinued the Mac products.

There stuff is Top Notch engineering... but mucho $$$$
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2569.0.html

« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 07:21:34 PM by DieHard »

Offline macStuff

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2018, 08:08:48 PM »
i think its the company that bought their holdings that is to blame for that. 2san inc or whatever
ive watched them change their prices on ebay quite alot doing down to 25% of what its at now and then they put it smack high! right back up after

everyone likes to charge an instant extra 100 bucks if its a SCSI device of some sort


Offline DieHard

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2018, 08:55:44 AM »
Quote
ive watched them change their prices
Spot on... the ACARD 2133 is now $199 !! over $100 more than when I made the post in 2015

Also, their website looks like a middle school kid made it, I can't believe They let it go live. Reminds me of a "wayback" site circa 2004
http://www.acard.com/

Offline macStuff

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2018, 02:35:38 PM »
i had them offer me some deals in the past only to have them refuse when i wanted to proceed with it..
i honestly think they are just liquidators sitting on a large inventory of "stuff" some tech some not
actually they gave me my 6290m card for only 40$ so they were nice to me but yea there prices change up + down they are all
about the profit and trying to see how much they can get for their stuff - but hey.. thats capitalism right?
but alot of their "converter" products are way way overpriced you can ttell they are thirsty for $$$$

Offline trag

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2018, 11:54:44 AM »
Back around 2005 the AEC-7220 (IIRC, SCSI to PATA converter) was available on Ebay for about $10 - $15 each and there were scores of them for sale.   One fellow had at least 100 used ones he was liquidating, and there was a bunch of lots of 10 new in OEM  wrap (no boxes) from another seller.

Similarly for the other products (PCI cards). 

Back when these products were current, 2SAN was one of two or three USA distributers.   When the products were discontinued, I guess they ended up with a bunch of stock one way or another.

This was one of those items that we should have hoarded at the time.   But who could predict that there'd be a storm of cheap stuff, and then a drought.

Offline Trace-Elliot

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2019, 03:47:45 AM »
what is in 2019 the best solution ?

I saw SIL 3124 PCI Cards arround 6 Euro including shipping .

Acard , Seritek (Firmtek) and Sonnet Cards are disapered from the marked  ( hope they´re are all not end up at the recykling yard >:(   ).

I need 2 of this Cards ( 2 Channels are enough for me since the SSDs drop thier prices)

tons of Digidesign Hardware and historic apple maschines .... based in germany ...

Offline MacTron

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2019, 12:22:20 PM »

I saw SIL 3124 PCI Cards arround 6 Euro including shipping .

Don't forget that those cheap SIL 3124 PCI Cards don't work in Mac Os 9. It need a EEPROM replacement and reflashing.
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Offline refinery

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2019, 03:37:46 PM »
i would write this guy and ask if he's selling a 3512 or a 3112, as he shows both in his pictures. but they look to have SST EEPROMs which means it should be flashable...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/STLab-A-171-Sil3112-PCI-2-Port-SATA-Card-Raid-Support-NEW/113709887643?epid=22027611330&hash=item1a79a3309b:g:6iUAAOSwVIBcL5Po
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Offline IIO

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2019, 05:05:56 AM »
This was one of those items that we should have hoarded at the time.

yeah, or the TB-303, of which the last few hundred went for around USD 50 in 1998
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Philgood

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2019, 02:37:13 PM »
I want a TR-808 for 25 years now but i think now is not a good time to get one neither...
*G4 MDD 1.25GHz (Single 2003)* with 2x 80Gb harddrives, 1Gb RAM, Tascam US-428 and Edirol FA-101 USB/Firewire soundcards-*iMac G3 DV 400MHz* with installs from OS 8.6-OSX Tiger on different harddrives-*Powerbook G4 1.67Ghz* with new SSD ! Love it.

Offline macStuff

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2019, 03:25:00 PM »
I want a TR-808 for 25 years now but i think now is not a good time to get one neither...

no - its time to get a behringer RD-808

Offline refinery

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2019, 04:11:42 PM »

yeah, or the TB-303, of which the last few hundred went for around USD 50 in 1998

that might have been true in 1988 but by 98 they were in high demand... Roland was already pushing out crap reissues like the MCx0x with "303" sounds. 98 was the year Rebirth dropped and suddenly "everyone" could have that 303 sound.
i couldnt justify spending money on one at that time cuz that was when the virtual analog stuff was really hitting big. why buy a crappy mono with no effects when you could get an access virus? but then Blade came out and that club scene with the dual distorted 303s, and that I think was what really made them take off again.
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Offline Trace-Elliot

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2019, 03:39:11 PM »


Don't forget that those cheap SIL 3124 PCI Cards don't work in Mac Os 9. It need a EEPROM replacement and reflashing.

I order 2 Cards . Bevor that i set up a flash board . Looks cool
tons of Digidesign Hardware and historic apple maschines .... based in germany ...

Offline SDG

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2019, 08:45:59 AM »
what is in 2019 the best solution ?

I saw SIL 3124 PCI Cards arround 6 Euro including shipping .

Acard , Seritek (Firmtek) and Sonnet Cards are disapered from the marked  ( hope they´re are all not end up at the recykling yard >:(   ).

I need 2 of this Cards ( 2 Channels are enough for me since the SSDs drop thier prices)

As you're in Germany, you need this card.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCI-2port-SATA-Controller-RAID-0-1-p849/330755970915

Very few of these 2-port SiI3112 cards left but this German seller seems to have a few and isn't greedy with his pricing.

It needs an EEPROM replacement if you want to use OS9 but can then be flashed with the Firmtek SeriTek firmware in a PC and is bootable from MacOS7.6 -10.5.8.  Note, however, that a flashed card won't work with either the Digital Audio or any of the Quicksilvers. They just won't boot if you install the card. If anyone here has a fix for that, please chime in.

If you only want to use OSX a 2 port card with the Sil3512 chip can be flashed in a Mac with the Wiebetech firmware and can be flashed back to PC very easily without any other modification needed.

Offline IIO

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2019, 11:30:24 AM »

It needs an EEPROM replacement if you want to use OS9 but can then be flashed with the Firmtek SeriTek firmware in a PC and is bootable from MacOS7.6 -10.5.8.  Note, however, that a flashed card won't work with either the Digital Audio or any of the Quicksilvers. They just won't boot if you install the card.

1. it needs hardware modification 2. it needs to be flashed for mac 3. you need a PC to do that 4. it still wont work in half the G4s ... is there any PRO beside all these cons?

there must be thousands of sonnet card around in germany, why the f*** is nobody selling them? :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Trace-Elliot

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2019, 09:05:55 AM »

As you're in Germany, you need this card.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCI-2port-SATA-Controller-RAID-0-1-p849/330755970915


I ordered 2 of this cards and they ship me 2 of the 4 port cards with sil3114 controler .

sil3112 ist soldout i think ..?
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2019, 10:04:13 AM »

As you're in Germany, you need this card.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCI-2port-SATA-Controller-RAID-0-1-p849/330755970915


I ordered 2 of this cards and they ship me 2 of the 4 port cards with sil3114 controler .

sil3112 ist soldout i think ..?
No It shouldn't.
Sil3112 it's not enough. The card needs a Mac Os 9 compatible EPROM.
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Offline SDG

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2019, 01:50:01 PM »

It needs an EEPROM replacement if you want to use OS9 but can then be flashed with the Firmtek SeriTek firmware in a PC and is bootable from MacOS7.6 -10.5.8.  Note, however, that a flashed card won't work with either the Digital Audio or any of the Quicksilvers. They just won't boot if you install the card.

1. it needs hardware modification 2. it needs to be flashed for mac 3. you need a PC to do that 4. it still wont work in half the G4s ... is there any PRO beside all these cons?

there must be thousands of sonnet card around in germany, why the f*** is nobody selling them? :)

The PRO is that it is a viable option. One of VERY few left. Genuine SeriTek cards hardly ever come up for sale in Europe. I fear most of those have ended up in recycling/landfill along with their PowerMacs as I reckon most SATA card sales went to businesses rather than individuals.

Sucks that the German seller turned out to be a bait and switch merchant. Nothing for it but to open a case and send the 3114 card back and make sure that all postage costs get refunded, just so he changes his listing.

Offline macStuff

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Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2019, 07:24:34 AM »
the highest PEAK read speed i have recorded was 214 MB/s on my Acard 6885M with 2 drives
(and im fairly certain they were not SSD drives, normal sata3 spec drives thread is here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2542.0.html)
\ok sorry looks like i used *4* drives to get that result; 4 x non-ssd drives


looks like i only took a photo of it reaching 211