Author Topic: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.  (Read 10700 times)

Offline MacTron

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Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« on: November 29, 2014, 03:20:58 AM »
Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study:

The nVidia Geforce4 Titanium 4600 is by far the fastest video card available for Mac Os 9. This card is based on the NV25 engine @300 Mhz with 128MB of of Samsung @325 Mhz DDR (2.8ns) Video RAM. The Mac version comes with a DVI port and a ADC (Apple Display Connector).



 It is important to know the all Geforce4 family to avoid mistakes:

Geforce4 MX (NV17) is an enhanced version of the Geforce2.
Geforce4 Go (NV17) is a movile version of the Geforce4 MX.
Geforce4 Ti (NV25) the 4200,4400 are downgraded versions of the 4600.
Geforce4 Ti (NV28), is the AGP8X version of the Geforce4 Ti. Here we have to be carefull, as the AGP8X cards need hardware modifications and the NV28 may be not compatible with Mac Os 9 Nvidia drivers. This card can be labeled as Geforce4 Ti 4800, Ti 4600 8X, Ti 4800 SE, 4200 8X etc...

So:

- We have to find a PC card that best match the Ti4600 Mac  specifications.
- Find the firmware and the flash process, probably similar to other nvidia cards.
- And find the hardware modifications. Probably AGP pinout and voltage related...
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 03:50:18 AM by MacTron »
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supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2014, 05:33:04 AM »
it would be very nice to have a dual DVI Ti4600... such as the one by Gainward
as the pc type test subject of the flash/mod (both?)

i think we should have a thread specifically on dual-dvi capable cards

i beleive another dual dvi card is the x800XT but its of course not for mac os 9, panther,tiger only
if anyone knows any others. maybe we can make a list of all mac compatible dual dvi cards in a new thread
i dont think it will be a very long list tho ;D

another note im thinkin is... the ti4400, + ti4200 are still great cards too.. it would be great to see some
pc versions of them fixed to work in mac os 9 aswell... they would still perform great compared to the other geforce/radeon cards
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 05:57:11 AM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2014, 05:53:08 AM »
then again i guess the dual dvi is not so much a big deal when u can find a ADC to DVI adapter converter


Offline MacTron

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2014, 06:29:49 AM »
Yes, I agree on to Dual DVI is the best option. I don't expect to find ADC in to PC cards. LOL
Usually DVI include analog signals (VGA), but not the opposite.



This ADC to DVI is to Mac Video cards. The opposite is more complex and very rare, as it must incorporate USB and power.
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 01:27:35 PM »
Here we have most of the info we need:

http://themacelite.wikidot.com/


They have flashing tools and techniques . And a lot of ROMs, including ones for Nvidia Ti 4600 and Quadro 4 700 XGL.
We only have to find the right PC video cards to begin to test ...
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supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2014, 05:55:32 PM »
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141500952824?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

i am thinking of grabbing this.. even tho it is not 4600 and only 4400 i think it would still be good

the difference is slight core clock speed 300 vs 325mhz? i think?

Offline MacTron

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2015, 07:57:13 AM »
We have DieHard report about the ASUS V8460 ULTRA succesfully  flashed with the PC GeForce 4 Ti4600 (Arti) 1105  ROM,

... and my (MacTron) failed with the Quadro 900:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=681.msg11447#msg11447

... but we are still in on track for Dual DVI nVidia 4600 cards. There are a few from MSI and Grainward, but may be those are really Geforce4 Ti 4800:  the AGP8X version of the Geforce4 Ti whith the GPU NV28. Here we have to be carefull, as the AGP8X cards need hardware modifications and the NV28 may be not compatible with Mac Os 9 nVidia drivers
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 08:44:11 AM by MacTron »
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Offline MacTron

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2015, 05:00:39 AM »
A very interesting card is the Gainward Ultra/750. But this card appears in different versions, some based on the ti 4800SE ( AGP8X and NV 28), others based on to ti4600 (AGP4X and NV 25) ...

In some cases the data are confusing ...

The worst thing is to think, if this dual DVI 4600 are too similar to those Quadro 900 ...
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2015, 09:23:14 AM »
The NV25 chip:



More info about Gainward Ultra/750:

http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/gainward_gf4_ti4600/1.shtml

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles/gaingf4ti/

The NV25 chip (from Gainward Ultra/750):


« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 10:11:28 AM by MacTron »
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supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2015, 01:38:59 PM »
im pretty sure this gainward card will work.. looking at the gpu.. it a normal geforce 4 ti chip... gainward only uses this "golden sample" brandname whnever they have the MAX MAX specs on a product i think..
and i think they did this dvi implementation while maintaining compatibility + without adding any thing to break compatibility

theres one for sale from england for 33$ i think this brand was biggest in the uk re: its distribution
they were in the us too but not as much

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GAINWARD-GeForce-4-TI-4600-128MB-GS-AGP-Video-card-/261848503377?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cf7631451

awesome looking card;)
seems all the best mac os 9 gear is red..
(if it could work)
like the seritek firmtek !
im surprised therse no mention of this card on the macelite

***it would be great if diehard could look on the chip of the 8460 graphics card to see if the chip matches this chip labelling***


the 8460 asus card also had in its name the word "ultra"
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/asus8460ultra/

this name obviously comes from the fact that the nv25 chip is called this right on the chip itself

supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2015, 01:53:32 PM »
none of the other retail cards listed on gpureview for this nv25 chip are listed as being DVI/DVI .. gainward is notorious for pushing the max specs to the highest possible to gain supremacy over the competition

below a graph of other cards by albatron, abit, aopen, ELSA, joytech, MSI, BFG, PNY, leadtek using the same GPU

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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2015, 02:14:33 PM »
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-128MB-PowerMac-G4-TI4600-DVI-ADC-NVidia-GeForce4-VideoCard-603-2645-VI159-/111394490850?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19efa109e2

this guy is selling mac ti 4600 in numbers!
maybe we should do a group buy. to get a good price:D

He may not ship to Spain.  >:( But he accept offers...
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supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2015, 05:20:23 PM »
yes if u were to buy more then one im sure he would give a better price

imagine a g4 painted all red.. with these red cards inside.. + seritek + gainward ;D
with red LED lights on all fan replacements!!

supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2015, 10:46:22 PM »
welll i put in a low offer not expecting them to accept it. but HE DID!
i just got a asus 8460 ultra for 10$ ;D

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181711445518?rmvSB=true

Offline MacTron

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2015, 08:57:21 AM »
I finally bought the Gainward Ultra/750 ...

let's see how it goes this time ...
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supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2015, 05:19:44 PM »
congrats!
i cant wait to hear that it is a success  8)

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2015, 06:00:10 PM »
I finally bought the Gainward Ultra/750 ...

let's see how it goes this time ...

I gave the tip http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2429.0;D Just in case you want to sell a slower card...I am at the Rage 128 level for DVI still. (ADC to DVI)  ;D

I hope it to work. It is hard to find only that Asus. In the way of searching in eBay I found the Gainward.

To my eyes it have the same layout of components than rare Apple BTO GeForce4 Ti. Just not uses Solid State on caps. I hope those caps not to melt on M.A.R.L.  ;D

The Gainware have the 2 Silicon Image too as the original with ADC+DVI. The Asus know-to-work with MacElite firmware only has one. VGA+DVI it's the only working to date.
http://themacelite.wikidot.com/asus-v8460

Let's cross fingers...

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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2015, 06:27:02 PM »
http://themacelite.wikidot.com/nv-rom
Quote
Some of these edits is only needed for GeForce 6 and newer. GeForce 3/4 series only need Device ID settings and Timings Table as the other parts are not present in older ROMs

The PC GeForce 4 Ti4600 (Arti) 1105 firmware http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2 seem tested.

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supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2015, 10:01:40 PM »
theres another card to consider .. for flashing.. the pc Geforce 4 MX460 features a 300mhz core clock

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=125&card2=135
heres a comparison

has anyone seen this suma card?
http://media.ldlc.com/ld3/zoom/2002/LD0000447279.jpg
Suma Platinum

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2015, 10:21:11 PM »
Performance should be better on GeForce 3 Ti than on the rest of GeForce 4 series but the Ti.

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=133&card2=125

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=134&card2=125

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=134&card2=127

There are some on MacElite:

Quote
MSI GeForce 3 Ti 200 Pro-VT (gotoh) , no hardware mod needed

rom designed for the specific model listed.
rom might need to be edited to work on other cards from the same series.

Quote
ChainTech GeForce 3 Ti 200 (gotoh) , DVI or VGA, no dual display - no hardware mod needed

MSI GeForce 3 Ti 500 (JumpinJack) , DVI or VGA, no dual display - no hardware mod needed

The 3 know GeForce 4 hacks:

Quote
PC GeForce 4MX (Arti), NV17 or NV18 core
PC GeForce 4 Ti4400 (Arti)
PC GeForce 4 Ti4600 (Arti)

Also, it is OSX related, but have some info on GeForce4 on Macs

http://themacelite.wikidot.com/kext-mod

Quote
NVIDIA Quadro 4 (nv25) series, the card is very close to GeForce 4 Ti series, using same GPU and PCB layout. Some even have dual DVI outputs.
Custom GeForce 4 Ti ROM will make the card work as a Mac Card, but a Kernel Panic will happen every time you try to boot with original NVIDIA extensions.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 10:32:50 PM by Protools5LEGuy »
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supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2015, 12:02:50 AM »
its only better then the 4mx440 which is the gf4mx that shipd oem with powermacs

Offline MacTron

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2015, 09:41:32 AM »
congrats!
i cant wait to hear that it is a success  8)

Yeah, me too. 8)

... or another bunch of euros to the trash ...
 :'(
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supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2015, 12:10:22 AM »
well u could always resell the quadro fx card! or use it in a pc.


Offline MacTron

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2015, 10:35:49 AM »
well u could always resell the quadro fx card! or use it in a pc.
This Quadro 900 crash the PC at boot, if is installed, so is unusable (by now...)
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supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2015, 10:55:22 AM »
is it possible that the rom chip on the card has been corrupted + needs to be replaced?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Quadro4_900_XGL_ES.jpg

this SST chip...
but to do this would require someone with a chip programmer.. + good soldering + Desolderng skills
and also another geforce 900 xgl

probably too much effort;)

supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2015, 10:59:40 AM »
oops thats not the right card. not dual dvi.
u got the 980 xgl right?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/NVIDIA_Quadro4_980_XGL.jpg

u can see on this pic its the wrong GPU .. nv28
no wonder it didnt work.. needs to be nv25
and the capacitor layout is very different from the working ti4600

i think this gainward will work for you!!!!!! quickly + easily as it did for jerry

Offline MacTron

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2015, 11:43:44 AM »
oops thats not the right card. not dual dvi.
u got the 980 xgl right?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/NVIDIA_Quadro4_980_XGL.jpg

No, I have Quadro XGL 900. Your pict is somewhat wrong, It says G-Force 4 on the heatsink while in the Quadro XGL 900 says Quadro4, and in the GPU too ... and it have dual DVI.

Quote
i think this gainward will work for you!!!!!! quickly + easily as it did for jerry

No, The Gainward I'm waiting for is very different from DieHards one. I will have to make a custom ROM for it ...  :-X
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2015, 11:46:46 AM »
is it possible that the rom chip on the card has been corrupted + needs to be replaced?

The ROM chip have a wrong ROM file ...  :'(

Quote
this SST chip...
but to do this would require someone with a chip programmer.. + good soldering + Desolderng skills
and also another geforce 900 xgl

probably too much effort;)
Yes it is.
I have the original Quadro 900 ROM file, so maybe someday I can fix it ...
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supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2015, 12:17:36 PM »
it wont take any new flash?
have u tried flashing it in a different computer?
i had problems flashing my radeon 9800 pro in one computer..
and then when i got another pc agp board it just worked...

Offline MacTron

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2015, 12:41:50 PM »
it wont take any new flash?
have u tried flashing it in a different computer?
i had problems flashing my radeon 9800 pro in one computer..
and then when i got another pc agp board it just worked...

No it won't. Because the PC freezes at boot, and that's the only PC I have with AGP port.
So maybe someday I will have more options, but by now ...
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supernova777

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Re: Geforce4 Titanium 4600 PC to Mac Flash. A preliminary study.
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2015, 04:40:08 AM »
you need a board in which u can tell it in the bios which graphics card to initialize first..
not all bios will give u this option.. i have one machine like this.. i can tell it.. boot from the pci graphics card.. and it will ignore the agp card on boot up. then u can drop to dos and try the flash.