searching for rare hard to find install/restore of mac os 8.6 for AGP sawtooth

[supernova777]

*note that this restore cd actually says "power *macintosh* g4" as opposed to "power mac g4" as the cds that came after it with 9.x do*

both the powermac g4 pci yikes & agp sawtooth were originally shipped with 8.6
this cd pictured above could actually be a pci graphics version of the cd..
im looking to find the agp version which contains a rare patched version of 8.6 that supports the AGP graphics motherboards
many people have looked for this and failed from what ive researched
the reason its so hard to find is that mac os 9 quickly replaced 8.6
this cd was only shipped with powermac g4 agp models that shipped from
August 31st 1999 through to October 20th 1999 or so, so maybe 6-7 weeks worth of
produced sawtooth macs came bundled with this

if everyone could help me to find this cd i would really appreciate it
ive done alot of work here on this site to help everyone else.. to turn this site into a powerful resource
for people doing audio production... i know theres alot of people who read the articles and dont chat on the board
but if any of you own a powermac g4 agp graphics that u bought new, if you could take a look for this cd,
it would mean alot to me ..

SSW 8.6 means system software 8.6, mac os 8.6.
attached also is a quote from a user on 68kmla who claims their
g4 agp unit is strangely "zippy" when this specific version is
installed



thanks

[MacTron]

May be I have the original CD-Rom, but I can't find it. But it doesn't matter, because the ROM is the main thing.

Here it is the ROM that startup the sawtooth with mac os 8.6:
https://www31.adrive.com/filemanager/downloadfile/64296321/d/1?o=2407783

This ROM should replace whatever ROM that comes with Mac os 8.6.

Mac Os 8.6 universal install refuse to be installed on the Sawtooth for sure. So the easy way is to install it on any other machine (a Power Mac G3 by example) and the copy it to the Sawtooth, and don't forget to replace the ROM file. The other way is to edit the list of supported hardware, but this is more complicated...

And to those of you that claim that  "machine specific versions of mac os" provide accelerated enhanced performance, please show us (the non believers) some test results in G4 computers...

Because in a PM 8500/120 with 7.5.2 against the same machine with 9.04 I already know the result...

[supernova777]

right now i am figuring out how to install 8.6
i think i have it figured out how to allow the installer to run - i will post results after i test its stability

the process to fool te installer involves tricking the mac
with this software: "Wish I were" which adds a control panel that allows u to fool software
into thinking its an older mac
by changing the pram/nvram setting of which mac it is to be a lower model
http://macgui.com/downloads/?file_id=20126



the combination of this + the rom 2.5.1 will allow a sawtooth to boot 8.6
but any version other then the one on the above cd is designed for pci graphics macs only
so while it may work to start up, it will probably be unstable
the cd shown in the above post is 8.6 for AGP systems..
specificly designed for this machine by apple

this rom might work as well, but its realy for a g4 yikes pci graphics system
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1256?viewlocale=en_US

i believe i will be successfull in installing the 8.6 universal or international package
but i still am searching very much for this cd!!
no other version of 8.6 will contain the AGP enhanced version of 8.6

i will know in a short time how well this works...
im installing 8.6 right now.

[supernova777]

And to those of you that claim that  "machine specific versions of mac os" provide accelerated enhanced performance, please show us (the non believers) some test results in G4 computers...

Because in a PM 8500/120 with 7.5.2 against the same machine with 9.04 I already know the result...

hey! you can believe whatever you want to believe! noone is forcing you

the 8500 is not a B&W g3 or first edition AGP G4 (which were new types of macs, firewire, new world rom, usb etc)
perhaps the motherboard of the 8500 was not so radically different then the ones that came before it
to requiring custom modifications or enhancements.

[MacTron]

with this software: "Wish I were" which adds a control panel that allows u to fool software
into thinking its an older mac

Yes it is, I forgot this third way...

the combination of this + the rom 2.5.1 will allow a sawtooth to boot 8.6
but any version other then the one on the above cd is designed for pci graphics macs only
so while it may work to start up, it will probably be unstable
the cd shown in the above post is 8.6 for AGP systems..
specificly designed for this machine by apple

i believe i will be successfull in installing the 8.6 universal or international package
but i still am searching very much for this cd!!
no other version of 8.6 will contain the AGP enhanced version of 8.6

i will know in a short time how well this works...
im installing 8.6 right now.

It works well, I have done this a few year ago... but no benefit against 9.2.2. ...or at least I couldn't find it.

[supernova777]

i have just booted into 8.6 on the sawtooth 

but... the startup assistant started + Crashed immediately..
which is not a good sign.

but the finder windows are EXTREMELY FAST compared to any version of 9.0
if i had a very good video camera with high speed frame rate perhaps i could capture the speed of the finder windows
on 8.6 to compare with 9.x on this machine.. its a very big difference in responsiveness... there is no pause at all when clicking "macintosh hd"
the finder window INSTANTLY opens and zips into place all files already displayed..
when i run 9.x on the sawtooth theres always small pauses + waiting times when clicking a folder to open with the finder.

***updated errors/problems + observations with 8.6 hack on agp sawtooth
-ethernet does not work, built in ethernet port is not showing up in tcp/ip settings i suppose i could add a pci ethernet card and it would work
-firewire does not work, i plugged in my drive, and its not showing up, the drive light is powered on, it should work, but doesnt
-boot time is very fast...extremely fast compared to 9.x, so fast that i just rebooted, heard the chime, turned my back to the other computer for a few seconds and when i looked back it was already at the desktop, so fast that i thought it never rebooted LOL

i was reading something last night about them updating the usb + firewire drivers for the g4..
to enhance usb for the coming devices that were being invented at the time. a lacie usb hard drive was one of the
 first to have specific usb "mass storage" drivers written for mac os 8.6 on the g4 (at usb 1.1 speed)
anyway im definately missing the drivers for the hardware

[supernova777]

i wonder if i installed "in place" overtop of a 9.x installation if the support files for the ethernet/firewire would be there (not overwritten because they arent present in this 8.6 install)
and just "work"

[supernova777]

another thing to add to this, if my mac goes to sleep, it is unable to wake up.. have to do reboot
tried using a firewire update + ethernet update to correcthe problem but it did not make firewire or my network device work under 8.6
;(

those results were all from using various 8.6 installations..
you think this is only because its 8.x + not 9.x but aha!
ive also tested it with a 9.0.4 restore cd that was labeled "powermac g4 software + restore"
and the results are the same, no ethernet, no firewire, + no wake from sleep
that is because this 9.0.4 version is for the gigabit ethernet/mystic motherboards
actually with this 9.0.4 version if u sleep the computer, u have to physically unplug the machine to get it to snap out of it
even pressing the reset button does nothing untill u physically unplug the computer

and the 8.6 is for the g3B&W/g4 yikes motherboard
the sawtooth is different from both of those as most of you know..
taking up to 2gb of ram, with an additional internal firewire port, etc etc
(the yikes/B&W have same # of slots but only accept 256mb modules x4=1gb)

would be reallly great if someone with original agp sawtooth restore cds would step forward
im really surprised this isnt posted somewhere already!!!

i will find out in a day or so if the cds i ordered are for the sawtooth when i test ethernet/firewire/sleep after installing them
once they get here in the mail

[supernova777]

i think i have found it!!
the above image is definately the one for the pci graphics..
if u look on the label of this cd, notice that it says cd version 1.2 rather then 1.0
also that it says "power mac" and not "power macintosh"
this must be it!!!!!!!!!!

i was given this image by user "almeath" on 68kmla.. *big thanks to him*
i am burning a copy of the iso now... hoping for working firewire + ethernet under 8.6!!!



checking the contents of the cd it does indeed contain ASR 2.0.4 and "Power Mac G4 HD.img" original hard drive image!! i just mounted the restore hard drive image + checking the mac os rom IT IS VERSION 2.5.1!!!
so here it is the cd has been found!!!

in his private message to me he explained that he never had the problem of nonworking firewire + Ethernet -- now i can see why;) he has the right cd

[supernova777]

software erase + restore took under 3 min to restore the original hd image..
on boot.. the setup assistant does not crash! ethernet is working! wake from sleep is also working!!

firewire drive is still not showing up.. and this works 100% fine under mac os 9.. but not showing presently with this original hd installed

packaged with the cd that was given to me by 'almeath' is also the 2.4 firmware (not sure if its original)
which is definately older then the updated 4.2.8f1 version that is on this mac now,
which was an update to do with mac os x compatibility + performance

im going to try to revert the firmware to this earlier version to see if this fixes the firewire not mounting..
the only problem is that this firmware updater app is saying my computer doesnt need the firmware
obviously because i have a more recent version then its looking for as a condition to start the update process

ok aha! i see.. this firmware updater says in the readme "will only run on powermac g4 agp systems running mac os 9.0 or later"
the updater details go on to say that the update fixes a problem using a usb + firewire drive as a startup disk + fixes some problem to do with
recognizing memory above 1gb when using ram from some 3rd party manufacturers..

sooooo its clearly not the original firmware.. maybe its not worth worrying about downgrading from 4.2.8f1 to this 2.4 firmware
everything but firewire is working fine.. im not sure why my firewire drive is not mounting..

but... maybe because of the size of the firwire drive!! its a 500gb firewire drive
maybe that is it!! does mac os 8.6 have a problem seeing a 500gb drive? ... hmmm.. probably!!! i think this must be why.

[supernova777]

ive also just realized that this 500gb firewire drive was formatted by mac os x 10.5+ or 10.6+ on intel platform.. i may have not included the "mac os 9 drivers" when i formatted this drive
i have never used it as a startup disk.. perhaps it is missing entirely the mac os 9 hard disk drivers.. or needs specifically 8.6 hard disk drivers to be recognized under 8.6..

i think i will try to find a fw400 enclosure and use a drive under 128gb and format it perhaps with osx 10.3 or 10.4 ppc and ensure i check "mac os 9 driver" installation and try again

if only i had another firewire device to connect to check with -- other than a hard drive..
maybe someone else can make a suggestion what type of device i could use..
perhaps a firewire cdrom..

[supernova777]

click here to download the original file given of the cd given to me by almeath cd version "1.2"
http://tinyurl.com/nq3gdtc
the file is in .iso format contained within a .zip file - might be best to extract on an X system first?
(this is what i did and i burnt it with toast 8 on my g5)
but maybe toast 5 can burn on os9 just fine too

[supernova777]

i've confirmed now that neither the B&W g3 450 (with its os8.6) or the Sawtooth g4 450 (with its os 8.6)
will mount this 500gb firewire drive.

checking system profiler i see some entries on the fw400 bus.. so i think it sees the device..
maybe i would have to use the 8.6 version of drive setup to format it with the correct drivers to see the drive..
or maybe the 500gb size is not recognizable to the firewire extensions.

more tests to come.. i hope to get to the bottom of this

[MacTron]

To solve the ethernet issue you can try "Apple Enet" v2.3.
And about FW drive, I have a 300 Gb FW disk working with Mac Os 8.6 in Sawtooth without any problem. This disk was formatted with Drive Setup v1.9.2

[Protools5LEGuy]

more tests to come.. i hope to get to the bottom of this

Now you are ready for Sarah... (8.7)

http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-os-87-sarah

[supernova777]

Now you are ready for Sarah... (8.7)
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-os-87-sarah

interesting! thanks ptleguy

[supernova777]

To solve the ethernet issue you can try "Apple Enet" v2.3.
And about FW drive, I have a 300 Gb FW disk working with Mac Os 8.6 in Sawtooth without any problem. This disk was formatted with Drive Setup v1.9.2

ok so thats probably the reason why.. as u can see from the images i grabbed from system profiler the fw bus sees the device no problem but literally does nothing when i plug in the drive..
ethernet + firewire + sleep all run fine now that i installed with this machine specific installer... just the firewire drive isnt mounting
probably because it came pre-formatted for mac os x (hfs+ extended) and i never re-formatted it before copying a large amt of data to the drive.. some crazy guys 32gb library LOL!

[Protools5LEGuy]

Now you are ready for Sarah... (8.7)
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-os-87-sarah

interesting! thanks ptleguy

Be careful! 8.7 alpha could be older than 8.5.1!

I would love to hear reports 8.6 vs 8.7 

[supernova777]

well obviously i wont be running that on a sawtooth, as the whole point of the thread was that the sawtooth requires this custom-tailored version of 8.6
then again it would be interesting to know if this alpha includes support for the agp sawtooth!
should check the date of the files of the installation to see if its from after august 31st 1999.

[MacTron]

Mac Os 8.7 alpha is where 9.0.x disaster begins... IMHO