(Solved) OS9 on G4 Won't Mouse Click

[frogprince]

I was recently blessed with a free Powermac G4 Gigabit Ethernet that was headed for recycling when I intercepted it, complete with studio monitor.. ..The system booted into 10.4 with the original 30 GB HD, but I figured out that the firmware was version 3.3f. So I decided to upgrade that to the final 4.28 version.

To do so requires that the firmware upgrader runs from an OS9 partition on a HD. One cannot run it from an OS9 install CD, nor in classic
mode on 10.4. I replaced both the DVD-ROM and HD, maxed the RAM to 2 GB, and put in a newer 120 GB IDE drive I had available. I booted a 10.4 DVD, selected Utilities, and reformatted the new HD. I set up a single partition with the OS9 drivers installed. Next, I ran the installer from an OS9 retail disk, selecting a fresh install from the options list, and including almost all the available extensions. The install seemed to complete successfully.

I rebooted into OS9, and everything looks normal, but the open-on-mouse-click function doesn't work. The cursor tracks the mouse movement across the screen, but clicking on menu entries does absolutely nothing. The odd thing is, the mouse works with the install CD, and it worked with the initial 10.4 install that the system came with, so I don't think it's a hardware problem. But now it does nothing. In fact, since I have to force the system off with the power switch, it comes back and runs the disk check routine automatically, and then I have to click on the acknowledgement button to get the boot to complete. And the mouse click works for that one button, the reboot continues and finishes. And then, no mouse click.

I have no way of knowing if the keyboard is working or if this is just a mouse problem since I can't open an application to try typing. The eject key doesn't open the DVD, but I don't know if that's a supported OS9 function. I've now been through this install drill multiple times, always with the same result.

The keyboard is a MacAlly USB, and I've tried three different mice, including one of the old Apple "hocky pucks" from an iMac DV. The keyboard and mouse are plugged into one of the back panel USB ports. Do I need to load a USB extension that isn't included in the standard install CD, use a different OS9 disk, or sacrifice a red chicken? What am I missing? You folks seem to be the best remaining resource on
OS9, so I'm hopeful! Thanks in advance.

[filipetolhuizen]

I had this happening when Mac OS 9.2.2 failed to load the video drivers. Maybe your graphics card is incompatible with Mac OS 9.2.2 if it's not the stock Rage 128 Pro.

[supernova777]

which gigabit ethernet model is it? (MHz speed? single or dual processor?)
the gigabit ethernet models all came with their own version of mac os 9 which was version 9.0.4*
(download here: http://macintoshgarden.org/sites/macintoshgarden.org/files/apps/MacOS_904.toast_.sit)
as per apple common practice the drivers for that computer are not present in the os if u use 9.0 for example
these computers came with their own install cds + restore cds to reset the computer back to its initial state

remove any other pci cards inside the system for testing purposes
and let us know which graphics card u are using
i think these models came with the rage 128 AGP


once u install a version of mac os meant for that machine... or one that came AFTER 9.0.4 u should be good to go
they changed alot of the motherboard architecture with the AGP gigabit ethernet models which is why u are experiencing problems most likely

[IIO]

I have no way of knowing if the keyboard is working or if this is just a mouse problem since I can't open an application to try typing.

at this point you are missing that you can navigate through the finder just by keyboard.

is there anything on the desktop? the HDs for example? then try arrow-up or arrow-down to select them, an dthen command&arrow-down to open items.

The eject key doesn't open the DVD, but I don't know if that's a supported OS9 function.

it should work on any OS 7.6 - OS 9.2.2. system from apple with serial or USB, including when the usb keyboard is connected via a PCI card.

The keyboard is a MacAlly USB

aha. most macally keyboards require an intel mac, a few will also work with OSX 10.3.

so there is a chance that this keyboard is what is not working in OS9 - at least not without some additional usb driver.

[frogprince]

Wow! Good info..

1.) The unit is a dual 450 MHz processor version with four RAM slots for 2 GB of RAM. On checking, I find 1.5 GB present.
It came equipped with an ATI Radeon 9000 Pro 64 MB video card. Interestingly, when I ran the OSX 10.4 CD to get the
system inventory, it stated that no display was connected, although I was obviously reading that bit of information from one.

I also found on the MacIntosh Garden web site a driver for that video card. One comment above was that I needed the stock
ATI 128 Rage. I do have one of those left over from my Digital Audio machine, so I can try that to get the firmware updated.

2.) On further inspection, I found an Adaptec SCSI card mounted in one of the PCI slots.. ..so I removed it and rebooted.
Since I'd forced the unit off with the power switch, Disk First Aid popped up, checked the disk, and found nothing wrong. 
I clicked on the provided button (yes, the mouse click worked here) and the boot finished. I got what looks to me
like a normal OS9 desktop. And I get a dialog box that says that the OS is checking the system. That process ran all night without
resolution, and the mouse worked as before, moving the cursor but not clicking.

3.) I replaced the newer MacAlly keyboard with an older version that had worked flawlessly on an old iMac DV G3 with OS9.
Here, it would not work; typing up or down arrow did not move the selection away from the system HD (folder?), nor could I
open that folder with command-down arrow.

4.) So, to summarize:
    a.) Are the device drivers or extensions for OS9 included in the OS install like Linux, or do they have to be added afterward,
         like Windows?
    b.) If I wanted to add the ATI 9000 video card driver noted above or some other USB driver, how would I do that?
    c.) If I change the configuration with the older video card or another keyboard, do I need to reinstall OS9 to take advantage of that?
    d.) Why on earth does the mouse work with the install CD and with Disk First Aid, and with OS10, but not with the desktop?
         And why doesn't the keyboard work when the mouse moves the cursor?...

Thankyouthankyou for responding. You folks are a wealth of knowledge!

[supernova777]

Wow! Good info..

1.) The unit is a dual 450 MHz processor version with four RAM slots for 2 GB of RAM. On checking, I find 1.5 GB present.
It came equipped with an ATI Radeon 9000 Pro 64 MB video card. Interestingly, when I ran the OSX 10.4 CD to get the
system inventory, it stated that no display was connected, although I was obviously reading that bit of information from one.

This graphics card did not originally come with this mac.. the ati 9000 pro was introduced  August 13, 2002
in the MDD g4s... so someone has swapped this card into from an mdd, after probably upgrading another mdd.
this means that the graphic drivers for this card were not probably present in the os untill v9.2.2

I also found on the MacIntosh Garden web site a driver for that video card. One comment above was that I needed the stock
ATI 128 Rage. I do have one of those left over from my Digital Audio machine, so I can try that to get the firmware updated.

i dont think you absolutely need to swap this out.. if u upgrade your os to 9.2.2 the drivers will then be 100% present.
or you can download + install the ati drivers.... but it is highly reccommended to have os 9.0.4 or later in this machine.
swapping out the card for the original type of videocard cant hurt + contributes to a thorough debug process.. it definately
would eliminate the possibility that the video card is in someway responsible for the wierdness. but its alot more likely that
the version of mac os 9 is to blame.  it is highly reccommended to have os 9.0.4 or later in this machine.
perhaps the easiest thing for you to do would be to install the 9.04 update, but thats kind of hard to do when u cant mouse click;)

full list of original specs here: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_450_dp.html

2.) On further inspection, I found an Adaptec SCSI card mounted in one of the PCI slots.. ..so I removed it and rebooted.
Since I'd forced the unit off with the power switch, Disk First Aid popped up, checked the disk, and found nothing wrong. 
I clicked on the provided button (yes, the mouse click worked here) and the boot finished. I got what looks to me
like a normal OS9 desktop. And I get a dialog box that says that the OS is checking the system. That process ran all night without
resolution, and the mouse worked as before, moving the cursor but not clicking.

3.) I replaced the newer MacAlly keyboard with an older version that had worked flawlessly on an old iMac DV G3 with OS9.
Here, it would not work; typing up or down arrow did not move the selection away from the system HD (folder?), nor could I
open that folder with command-down arrow.

4.) So, to summarize:
    a.) Are the device drivers or extensions for OS9 included in the OS install like Linux, or do they have to be added afterward,
         like Windows?
    b.) If I wanted to add the ATI 9000 video card driver noted above or some other USB driver, how would I do that?
    c.) If I change the configuration with the older video card or another keyboard, do I need to reinstall OS9 to take advantage of that?
    d.) Why on earth does the mouse work with the install CD and with Disk First Aid, and with OS10, but not with the desktop?
         And why doesn't the keyboard work when the mouse moves the cursor?...

Thankyouthankyou for responding. You folks are a wealth of knowledge!

to summarize all your problems (im guessing) can be solved by installing os 9.2.2
all of your audio hardware is compatible with this (Final) version of mac os
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?board=62.0

there are many different ways u can go about this.. im trying to think of the easiest way to suggest to u
do u have a version of mac os x installed on the machine presently?
this info can help me to decide which method to suggest

[supernova777]

does this macally keyboard have usb ports ?
have u tried connecting the mouse directly to one of the built in usb ports on the back of the mac
instead of using the port on the side of the keyboard?

[frogprince]

Thanks for all your kind time and support!

1.) Both MacAlly keyboards have a USB port installed for a mouse. Plugging the mouse into the machines' back USB port instead
of the keyboard doesn't fix the problem.

2.) The machine is currently running only OS 9.2, which I installed from an OS9 retail disk. I can easily install 10.3 or 10.4; I have
both disk sets from my first Powermac upgrade project. For that matter, I also have a 10.5 disk, but this machine doesn't support
that version of the OS.

Are there updates to 9.2 that I need to install? If so, how? The mouse works as long as I'm running the update disk.

I have some other errands to run today, but could swap the video card as an experiment. If I do, do I need to reinstall OS 9.2, or
is that driver already present in the system folder? How would a different video card affect USB support? Over 35 years in the
electronics business, I've worked with NCR machines; Apple II, OS9, and OSX; CPM; DOS; Linux; Unix; and Windows 3.1 through 7. I've seen some strange things; have you ever worked with serial ports on Windows 2000?.. ...but this one stumps me. Somehow,
as soon as the desktop loads, USB support ends for OS 9.

[DieHard]

A few tests...

1) Boot with Extensions off "Hold shift key upon boot" and test mouse with no extensions, I have also seen this "Mouse error" when the Video Accelerator extension does not work with the video card
(You can also Force quit the acceleration from a normal boot and see if it is the one locking up the system)

2) Install "USB overdrive" form our downloads and reboot and retest

[IIO]

2) Install "USB overdrive" form our downloads and reboot and retest

good point! THE driver.

[supernova777]

I have also seen this "Mouse error" when the Video Accelerator extension does not work with the video card

if u have seen this then that must be whats happening..
because hes running 9.2
macs with radeon 9000 pro came running 9.2.2 (which comes AFTER 9.2)
so there might be added support files to the os in this version

reboot without extensions and try to find the 9.2.2 update
http://macintoshgarden.org/sites/macintoshgarden.org/files/apps/Mac_OS_9.2.2_Update.smi_.bin_.sit

run the patcher while in "extensions off" mode and reboot!!!!!!!

[frogprince]

You folks are gooooood...

Booting without the extensions brought the mouse click back; everything seemed to be working. So I swapped out the ATI 9000 for
the ATI Rage 128, and rebooted. The setup assistant ran normally, and I seem to be good to go to do the update. Your explanation
about video acceleration makes perfect sense.

One last question about the setup: does OS9 support DHCP, or do I have to set up a fixed IP address for this machine in the router?
I didn't see a selection for DHCP in the setup assistant dialog. I'm running DSL to a router, so everything is hooked up to a home network.
If I wanted to install the super USB extension, I'll need internet access for this machine, and I don't remember how I did it with the G3.

And one last basic one: how do I install that file? Do I just drag it into the system folder, or ?

Thankyouthankyou!

[supernova777]

yes os9 supports dhcp..
click apple menu
go to control panels
then TCP/IP
select your network interface
and set DHCP

[IIO]

in opposite to windows XP, in OS9 DHCP is even called DHCP

[supernova777]

And one last basic one: how do I install that file? Do I just drag it into the system folder, or ?
Thankyouthankyou!

which file? if u mean the 9.2.2 update that i linked from macintosh garden im pretty sure its an installer program that u just run
and it will close all open apps + update u to 9.2.2
providing that its the right updater (language/region wise)
if not u will have to find the right 9.2.2 patch
I had trouble with this before

i know diehard + mactron would think u might be alot better off
to install our 9.2.2 "Fresh drag install" which has an updated mac os rom (10.2.1)
and all updated driver files (max level)
which would give u most support files in their final updated revisions

this freshdrag install is installed by doing exactly that..
dragging the files to the os9 partition..
(maybe boot up with the install cd + then trash your old system folder and install the new)