downgrading from 9.2 to os8.6 for a B&W G3 (or G4 Yikes) = SPEEED!!

[supernova777]

ie: downgrading on my b&w g3 500mhz** to its original mac os 8.5.1
can this be done without reformatting the drive?

http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-os-install-cd-library
this is where i found the version of 8.6 for my 450mhz g3
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTc00V-A9O8[/youtube]

filename: PMG3_86.toast_.sit

[supernova777]

well - i just stuck the 8.5.1 cd in the drive and ran it.. and its installing withotu even rebooting while booted into 9.2.2
i dont even think i needed to burn the disc i could have just mounted it with toast!
before doing so i renamed the "system folder" to "9.2 system folder"
its checking my hd for errors ..
hopefully this works!

[supernova777]

well i was trying to install 8.5.1 onto a b&W... and it didnt boot the cd.. so im guessing that my b&w g3, because it is a revision 2,
isnt allowed to install from this version.. and needs 8.6

ive downloaded the 8.6 cd we have posted and tried to run it and it wouldnt allow me to run the isntaller the same way that the 8.5.1 one did
it simply says "cannot upgrade this version of mac os" so it wouldnt let me put os8.6 on the drive without killing the 9.2 install

i think im stuck with 9.0+ if i cant find this 8.6 thats specifically for the g3 b&W revision 2

[supernova777]

ok i selected "Clean install" when i saw that option i thought this meant it would format the drive but apparently it just means creating a new system folder
which is exactly what i want + the reason why i renamed my old system folder to "9.2 system folder"

hopefully it passes the disk check this time... last time it froze, i had guessed this was because 8.5.1 wasnt compatible, but maybe this disk is messed
and ill have to replace it :S i hope not.. because i dont have any other ide under 128gb.. pretty sure the b&w revision 2 will not recognize larger then 128gb drive

[supernova777]

is it possible i need firmware update?
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3075?viewlocale=en_US
http://support.apple.com/kb/SP133 technical specifications

G3 Firmware Update v1.1
dead link: http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n58374
working link: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1251
http://web.archive.org/web/20021002071131/http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58374

or maybe mac os rom update?
dead link: http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n60408

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/g3-zone/yosemite/ROMupdate.html

[supernova777]

crashed at the same spot!!!!!!
3min left of disk check.....
i guess my drive isnt ok..
its not my drive its the drive i got the machine with.. someone elses old drive
maybe i can fix by running some disk tools apps?

i hope it isnt my overclock that could be causing the crash?

[Protools5LEGuy]

crashed at the same spot!!!!!!
3min left of disk check.....

i hope it isnt my overclock that could be causing the crash?

Get back to install without the overclock. Once installed, overclock it again.

[Protools5LEGuy]

Not all cpus accept overclocking. Some stupid point on the installations leads to a hardware failure. Most wise is to install without ALL the pci cards and without overclocking.

[supernova777]

Not all cpus accept overclocking. Some stupid point on the installations leads to a hardware failure. Most wise is to install without ALL the pci cards and without overclocking.

i dont think its the cpu causing it.. the mac is operating normally.. its only a 50mhz bump, on a 450mhz g3 cpu
(ie: they clearly tested this cpu as performing better then any other, its the best in class chip)

pretty sure when a hard drive check freezes its more to do with the hard drive
but of course i could be wrong.

maybe if i do a disk first aid repair this can help the check to finish

[supernova777]

ok im pretty sure the reason it was freezing is because i wasnt booted off the cd

ive got the real actual 8.6 powermac g3 version of the cd now.. now has documents at the root level "about your powermac g3" and the cd itself is even
titled "powermac g3" instead of "mac os 8.6"

burning it now..
also, could the reason the cds wouldnt boot be because in toast i picked "burn session" instead of "burn disc"?
what else could cause the cd to not boot?
it has to be the right cd..
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g3/specs/powermac_g3_300_bl.html > 8.5.1
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g3/specs/powermac_g3_350_bl.html > 8.5.1, 8.6*
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g3/specs/powermac_g3_400_bl.html > 8.5.1, 8.6*
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g3/specs/powermac_g3_450_bl.html > 8.6

maybe it really is a "B&W server" edition? these had different "machine specific" installer.. ugh
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_server_g3/specs/macserver_g3_350_bl.html > 8.5.1*
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_server_g3/specs/macserver_g3_400_bl.html > 8.5.1*
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_server_g3/specs/macserver_g3_450_bl.html > 8.5.1 or X Server* (mac os x 10.1?)

i read it is a documented fact that this macserver version cant boot the 8.6 install and vice versa... so now im back to trying to find 8.5.1 specific for revision 2 B&W..
*sigh*

[supernova777]

im just getting the same grey screen when i try to boot 8.5.1 or 8.6, the cd reads.. and then it stops.. and it just doesnt boot..
if i take the cd out or dont press C to boot from cd it starts up normally

[Syntho]

OS8.6 is better than 9 in my opinion, but man System 7 or OS7.6.1 as they call it is just great. I've only got a 300mhz upgrade CPU in it and it's much faster than my 1.25 MDD running OS9.2.2. At least in an 'everyday' way it is.

[supernova777]

OS8.6 is better than 9 in my opinion, but man System 7 or OS7.6.1 as they call it is just great. I've only got a 300mhz upgrade CPU in it and it's much faster than my 1.25 MDD running OS9.2.2. At least in an 'everyday' way it is.

right.. u mean it "Feels" zippy.. no fuckin around. windows flyin all over the place;) lol
THATS WHY I WANT THIS SHIT INSTALLED!!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOT damn u *kick*

maybe its the radeon7000 stoppin the boot..
im gonna pull all cards.. fuck it

[supernova777]

pulled the radeon same shit wont boot
maybe the drive i burned the cd with just doesnt like this other drives burning techniquE:D


this is some bullshit..
the problem here is. i dunno if its a g3 server or not..
if its the server version of the 450 then it can only boot 8.5.1 and needs a special version of 8.5.1
that is different from the 8.5.1 for the regular g3 300, 350, 400
thats got to be whats going on here..

how can i know for sure which model it is? i guess a serial lookup

im trying to clean install without booting again
i did run disk first aid and it fixed a btree header error before i forgot to mention

shit froze again.. *sigh*

[supernova777]

i finally got it to boot from a cd.. mac os 9 retail cd...
could it be that the firmware upgrade made it incompatible with 8.x?
is there a database where i can look up which os is supported by mac os rom 8.9.1?

[supernova777]

i did a 3 x pram reset and now my cd is booting!!!!!!!!

the 8.5.1 cd tells me that it wont work with this mac

so im trying the 8.6
i just saw the splash screen but now its showing an error (bomb/crash)
i think its a bad burn..

oh.. and yes.. i have clocked it back to 450mhz..

WOW its working..  cd burn is ok after all..
i had to do "nvram-reset" + "reset-all" in open firmware to finally
have it boot all the way into the cd interface for mac os 8.6
what a bitch that was

[supernova777]

some notes
having gone thru some total bullshit to get this to work just now..

if your cpu jumpers are overclocked reset them
remove ALL PCI cards
if you have a souped up graphics card (radeon 7000,9200) remove it + replace with rage 128 gl original card the b&w g3 came with
check the jumper on your cd/dvd and make sure its set to master (usually the jumper closest to the ide connection) and ensure its connected to the outer most ide connection if the ribbon cable has 2 connections
do cmd-option-p-r THREE TIMES IN A ROW
then immediatey do cmd-option-o-f to get into openfirmware
type "nvram-reset" then "reset-all"
immediately hold c and your b&w g3 should boot up with the cd

i think that somehow something gets screwd by restting the mac with the reset button over and over then the mac starts to produce these "load-size too small"
and other random cd/dvd errors (which u dont even know are happening unless u boot to openfirmware and do "boot cd" which will give u some feedback as to whats happened wrong

ive just finally got os8.6 installed after trying to get it to boot frm the cd all day
i thought i had the wrong cd version but no, my 8.6 is indeed the powermac g3 version appropriate for my g3 450mhz

i am now booted up to os8.6
about to reclock back to 500mhz

wow it really is alot faster!!!!!!!!! this is awesome
i didnt have to wipe my drive i selected clean instal option and it took car of everyything. even fixed some disk errors on my drive!
im really shocked at how much faster it is
like syntho said it feels like an mdd everyhting is super fast + responsive!
awesome!!!!!!
now to install carbonlib

one downside i see.. is that it doesnt support 1680x1050 ! maybe hteres a graphics update i can download to patch that up.. ati rage update?
http://ftpmirror.your.org/pub/misc/apple/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/CPU_Specific_Updates/Power_Mac_G3/ATI_RAGE_128_Update_1.0.smi.bin

[supernova777]

hmm looks like i cant use my radeon 7000 now tho
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4933414

As Gary mentioned, the easiest solution is to use an older 4:3 aspect ratio display.  Many of the older LCD displays make their way to thrift stores through donations.  If you'd like to use a modern widescreen display, there is an alternative - but it involves investing $$ in your G3.  If you upgraded your G3 tower to Mac OS 9.1 (and ran the OS 9.2.1 and OS 9.2.2 Updates), you could install an original Radeon Mac Edition or Radeon 7000 PCI graphics card (32 MBs of DDR memory) in one of the available PCI slots.  This 2001-vintage card provides support for a widescreen display.  Unfortunately, OS 8.6 doesn't support the Radeon driver package.  If interested, you should check eBay for the OS 9 (retail/universal installer version) software and the Radeon graphics card, which must be designed for use in a Mac, meaning that it's programmed with a Mac ROM.  The Radeon 7000 PCI card for PCs cannot be used, unless its ROM has been reprogrammed.  The beige G3 has (3) PCI slots and the Blue & White G3 has a designated 66 MHz PCI slot for the graphics card.  The B&W's original card - the Apple/ATI Rage 128 - doesn't support the native resolution/refresh rate of a typical widescreen display.  I have Radeon cards in a pair of my B&W G3s, enabling use of a 19" Dell widescreen LCD (native resolution: 1440x900 @ 60Hz)

that kinda sucks.. but maybe the speed is worth using a smaller monitor
let me try this ati rage update first
*** update

tried it.. doesnt work.. ati rage 128 update requires 9.1
lol something tells me i better get used to seeing tha;t)

ok that was alot of work now i need a nap
zzzzzzzzzzzz lol what a day

[MacTron]

OS8.6 is better than 9 in my opinion,

I'm not agree with this. I have tested both 8.6 and 9.2 in a Sawtooth and only could measure some 4% of difference and in some cases the fast system was the 9.2 one.
.

but man System 7 or OS7.6.1 as they call it is just great. I've only got a 300mhz upgrade CPU in it and it's much faster than my 1.25 MDD running OS9.2.2. At least in an 'everyday' way it is.

Your MDD may be a bit damaged...LOL

The System 7.x windows and menus system is lighter than the one in 8.x and 9.x, so you can feel it speedy, but "is just an illusion", System 7.x isn't optimize for PPC as 9.x is and comparing a 300 Mhz G3 against a G4 in a MDD (even the slowest one) have no sense.

[supernova777]

ddoes anyone have any insight into why my cd/dvd was giving load-size too small cd read errors (seen in openfirmware only)
and then pram + nvram reset fixed?? so freaking strnage man.. if u search g3 B&w cd wont boot thers alot of people tha tthis happens to with the b&w's
i dont get it!!\\

like i said i think it had something to do with me hard resettign the machine over and over with the reset button
this would show the ? as if it couldnt find the disk when it was just working before..
maybe i need a new battery?