DVD Burning. Dual Layer DVDs and DVD-RAM in Mac Os 9.

[supernova777]

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA23199
http://www.diffen.com/difference/DVD%2BR_vs_DVD-R

is it the physical drives in the g5's that introduced DVD+DL burning?
are g4's incapable of burning 8gb dvds?

i guess we just have to check apple system profiler

if g4s running os9 cannot burn dual layer dvd..
can they do it under osX?
if there is a software limitation perhaps we can find a way around it?

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1873213?tstart=0
reading this article seems to indicate that its possible if u install an upgraded modern dvd drive

[Protools5LEGuy]

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA23199
...
are g4's incapable of burning 8gb dvds?

The new SuperDrives built into the Power Mac G5 (Early 2005), iMac G5 (Ambient Light Sensor) computers, and eMac (Early 2005) computers now support DVD+R DL media, which means in addition to reading Double-Layer DVDs, they can write to a DVD+R DL disc.

All eMacs are G4s. See the previously trusted everymac 
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/emac/index-emac.html
The eMac (Early 2005) specs...
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/emac/faq/differences-between-last-emac-2005-models.html
It is curious and offtopic that this model is the only G4 that stock has Quartz Extreme...
A powerful and beautiful machine... A shame that we cant boot OS9 there...This could be our next target for the OS9 bootability... The last machines from the eMac family.
The last one that boots OS9 is the "combo" version of http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/emac/specs/emac_1.0.html with a GHz PowerPC 7445 

Only the original "Combo" drive configuration (M8950LL/A) is capable of booting into Mac OS 9

but the superdrive version is OSX only. We have to find both install/restore disk to compare the firmware/Apple Mac Rom to make DVD version boot OS9 as we have done before with FW800 machines.

There is also 2 more moderns eMacs.
A)The Radeon 9200 G4 1.25 called for its USB2 ports. It can be compared to MDDs with FW-800 I guess, with the 1.25 PowerPC 7447a
B)The 2005 Radeon 9600 G4 1.42 with PowerPC 7447a model able to Dual Layer

MacTron has said before than Radeon 9600 and OS9 do not match. I would like to hear more reports, but for sure I cant ask it here where users do not boot X to be safe of BTree errors.

2005 is really far from the pathetic episode of the "Death of OS9" joke from Steve Jobs... 2006 was the Intel change...

[supernova777]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combo_drive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperDrive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_Multi

gets confusing fast

http://stn2.headgap.com/resale/FMPro?-token=13693371&-db=ProductsC.fp3&-lay=WEB&-format=items.htm&-sortfield=SortID&-Max=40&category=superdrive&-find

[supernova777]

found this in an ad claiming that this came with toast 6
and its a DL burner over firewire..

has anyone confirmed being able to burn a DL dvd (larger then 4.x gb size)
under mac os 9 with toast 5.x?

i guess when it has this symbol in the pic
it means both + & - types are supported

[supernova777]

so apparently theres 2 different types of DL DVD

DVD+R DL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD%2BR_DL


and

DVD-R DL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-R_DL


and to do this it would most likely be DVD+R DL that would be compatbile and not DVD-R DL

before i had read on this page:
http://www.roxio.com/enu/support/toast/version_history6.html
the introduction of dvd dl recording was in 6.1
but this was just for DVD-R DL
i think DVD+R DL support might have come earlier then v6.1

ok here we go
v6.07 talks about :

Discs burned with the NEC 3100A, NEC 3500A, LG GSA-4210A, LDR-HA125FU2/M and Sony 700A currently only play back in PCs and set-top DVD players, but not in Macs. This is due to the fact that, at present, the Mac OS Finder does not recognize DVD+R DL as a valid disc type. The NEC2510A and TEAC drive set the disc type as DVD-ROM, which the Finder does accept. Apple is aware of this issue, and a future update to the Mac OS should recognize these discs correctly for playback.

so perhaps this interpretting this DVD-R DL in v6.1 as the first ability to record dvd dl is correct because
this paragraph makes me believe that apple chose to support the DVD-R DL standard over the DVD+R DL standard
also makes me think that finder of mac os 9 may not support either format at all!!

[supernova777]

http://www.roxio.com/enu/support/toast/version_history6.html

Version 6.0.7

Support fixes and error corrections for:

    8 GB doule layer data DVDs
    Double layer DVD music albums
    Double layer video DVDs
    Uncompressed Video_TS burning to double layer media
    Uncompressed double layer copying of unencrypted DVDs

Note: Double layer burning requires capable DVD recorder and double-layer media.

Setting the layer break is performed automatically for Toast authored DVDs. Any previously authored VIDEO_TS content will be scanned for a suitable non-seamless cell boundary that results in the most equal distribution of data across layers.

The disc capacity gauge near the red Record button offers a third toggle option of DVD DL, which calibrates the gauge for the increased capacity of double-layer media.

The disc capacity gauge near the red Record button offers a third toggle option of DVD DL, which calibrates the gauge for the increased capacity of double-layer media.

Burning has been verified to work with the following DL recorder mechanisms:

    NEC 2510A, 3100A, 3500A
    LG GSA-4120A
    Sony 700A
    Teac DV-W58E
    Logitec LDR-HA125FU2/M
    Pioneer DVD-RW DVR-108
    Lacie d2 series

Discs burned with the NEC 3100A, NEC 3500A, LG GSA-4210A, LDR-HA125FU2/M and Sony 700A currently only play back in PCs and set-top DVD players, but not in Macs. This is due to the fact that, at present, the Mac OS Finder does not recognize DVD+R DL as a valid disc type. The NEC2510A and TEAC drive set the disc type as DVD-ROM, which the Finder does accept. Apple is aware of this issue, and a future update to the Mac OS should recognize these discs correctly for playback.

so important they had to say it twice:D lol
or did these statements intend to display - + (one for each format type) this would explain why its there twice
but maybe somehow those characters were lost in formatting? if thats the case then maybe it was possible at this time to record a DVD+R DL on mac, but not play it back?? very strange

[supernova777]

http://web.archive.org/web/20010428052944/http://www.roxio.com/en/products/toast/
http://web.archive.org/web/20021117112227/http://www.roxio.com/en/products/toastwithjam/features.jhtml

here we have the web archive wayback page for toast 5 (was hard to find due to broken links in wayback machine!)

toast 5 faqs
http://web.archive.org/web/20030202001702/http://www.roxio.com/en/products/toast/faqs.jhtml
http://web.archive.org/web/20020809132923/http://www.roxio.com/en/products/toastwithjam/faqs.jhtml

its not until october 2003 does toast 6 show up, written for the first 2003 g5 powermacs
http://web.archive.org/web/20031011121051/http://www.roxio.com/en/products/toast/

Toast 6 runs on Mac OS X only - Mac® OS 9 users, see Toast 5 Titanium

[supernova777]

ok so it doesnt look like its in the cards for toast 5

time to look at some alternatives..
and i found one!!
on OWC

NTI Dragon Burn 4.5 for Mac OS X & Mac OS 9 CD/DVD (incl. Dual Layer) & Blu-ray Authoring software
NTI Dragon Burn 4.5 for Mac OS X & Mac OS 9 - CD/DVD (including Dual Layer) and Blu-ray Burning software for Data and Audio - OEM VERSION - Requires qualifying drive purchase!

Brand: NTI - NewTech Infosystems       OWC Item # OWCNTIDRAGON

the owc page lists mac os 9 but the nti dragon modern site does not...
time for more wayback machine;)

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/NTI%20-%20NewTech%20Infosystems/NTIDRAGON/
http://www.nticorp.com/dragon_burn.asp

http://www.digitalproducer.com/2003/12_dec/reviews/12_22/dlntidb122603.htm
http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Utilities/Dragon-Burn.shtml

could this be an error by owc? (ie: no mac os 9 compatibility?)
probably they meant 10.9

[MacTron]

Tomorrow I'll make a test of DL recording in Mac Os 9 ...

[supernova777]

Tomorrow I'll make a test of DL recording in Mac Os 9 ...

great - lets get this found out once and for all

[MacTron]

Tomorrow I'll make a test of DL recording in Mac Os 9 ...

great - lets get this found out once and for all

DL recorded in simulation mode OK.
Toast 5.2.3 seems to be confused about dual layer DVD's because it only let me choose the CD-ROM 63x speed instead of the usual DVD-ROM speed of 4x, 8x, 16x etc...
Anyway,  CD-ROM 63x is similar to DVD 6x.

Now I'm going to try a real DL recording...

[MacTron]

First test failed "the connection is not stable".
I'm going to test this just one more time...

[supernova777]

 
maybe try at the lowest speed ?

[MacTron]

Second test failed also "the connection is not stable".
I'm not going to test any longer, those DL DVDs are too expensive around here.

[supernova777]

here is the press release for the first superdrive that supported dual layer dvds
http://support.apple.com/kb/ta23199

burning dual layer dvds with "iDVD"
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2937

Second test failed also "the connection is not stable".
I'm not going to test any longer, those DL DVDs are too expensive around here.

is it a DVD-R DL or DVD+R DL that you are trying with?
which dvd type?

The DVD-R standard was developed by Pioneer. It is used primarily by Apple and Pioneer. In addition, this format is supported by the DVD Forum, but is in no way an industry standard. The DVD+R format is supported by Philips, Dell, Sony, HP, and Microsoft.

from this quote it appears that apple chose DVD-R to properly support - i just checked my own dvd supply .. and mine are all DVD+R DL .. ooops:) thats what i get for shopping at a pc store;D

looks like we may be stuck with using normal DVD-R 4.5-4.7gb size which should work fine?

i think it depends on which brand your burner is.. + from which time period
it may work for both formats but one of the two may be "better supported"
ie: if u have sony or HP burner you want to use DVD+R for best results
if you have pioneer burner, use DVD-R for best results

too bad they didnt mention LG or mitsubishi in this article

[supernova777]

heres a pic of a DVD-R DL


verbatim makes both - i used to use this brand religiously back in this time of 2002-2004 (but that was before DL)
i think this 4x DVD-R is the best kind for macs?

[MacTron]

I'm using Verbatim DVD+R DL.
And yes, you are right, I should use DVD-R, but those are what i have around here, I even don't remember when I have purchased it.
The weird thing is that the simulation worked...
Perhaps I'll make another test someday with a DVD-R DL...

[supernova777]

i may be wrong but i think + is alot more common now
on my local shop website i cant even find any DVD-R DL
every single one is DVD+R DL

this is probably an oversight on this specific shops part maybe?
or perhaps i didnt scroll to the end of the search result..

but im wondering..
could DL burning be a reality under mac os 9?
if we use the right media.. in the right drive..?
im hoping this is they key!


ok my shop does have normal DVD-R at least
pioneer CD/DVD drive + DVD-R i hope this is a winning combo

here is some info from pioneer.. press releases
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Press-Room/Professional-Products?year=1999


press release below from : October 17, 2002


Pioneer Introduces Multiple Format DVD|CD+Writer
http://tinyurl.com/ob7s839

[MacTron]

I just find and try  a Memorex DVD+R DL... and another test failed. So DVD+R DL definitely seems to be a non go.

[supernova777]

yes that would be consistant with me finding this press release for toast 6.1 saying DVD+R DL burn has been "corrected"
but they make no mention of DVD-R DL so maybe this was working ok?

i have been trying to find a press release for the first 8.5gb Dual Layer dvd drive
http://www.gizmag.com/go/2733/

i found this article finally .. and it has no date 
lol

ok here we go
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/201193-Dual-layer-8-5GB-DVD-R-DL-Disk-Launched
post date is 17th Feb 2005 12:41

"world first" dated feb 16th 2005
http://www.m-kagaku.co.jp/english/newsreleases/2005/20050216-1.html

ok so finally we know when this landed officially

pioneer has no press release at all regarding dual layer dvd
and not untill december 2005 they release info regarding Blue Ray
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Press-Room/Professional-Products/Pioneer+Launches+One+of+Industry%27s+First+PC-Based+Blu-ray+Disc+Drives
so it must be an oversight that they never released any info about dual layer.. even the december blueray press release makes no mention of dual layer DVD-R DL

The half height BDR-101A Blu-ray Disc/DVD writer will read BD-ROM/R/RE, DVD-ROM/DVD-R/DVD-RW and +R/+RW discs. It offers the following write speeds:

    BD-R/RE (2X)
    DVD-R/+R (8X)
    DVD-RW/+RW (4X)

Pioneer has been an innovator of optical disc technology since it brought LaserDisc, the precursor to DVD, to market in 1980. Pioneer went on to introduce the first DVD writer for computer use in 1997, the first DVD recorder as a VCR replacement in 1999, the first DVD/CD writer for home computer users in 2001 and surpassed 5 million sales of DVD writers in 2003. The company now leads the market with the introduction of this new Blu-ray Disc drive. Pioneer Corporation is one of the Blu-ray Disc Founders.

i guess they were more concerned with "coming out ahead" of mitsubishi by being first to market with blu-ray then to update press release of dual layer "after" mitsubishi