Author Topic: Good HD cloning software?  (Read 6139 times)

Offline Syntho

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Good HD cloning software?
« on: September 07, 2014, 03:47:30 PM »
I've used Clonezilla for years but I'd like something that I can keep on my G4 and 9600. Is there any simple software that's good for cloning a HD? Clonezilla is a bootable CDROM where it copies the HD, breaks it up into smaller 1GB or so pieces and compresses it. Restoring it is really simple too.

Is there any software for a Classic Mac OS that's as easy as that? Clonezilla won't run on a PPC CPU. I could just take the HD out of my Mac and hook it to another system but I'd like to keep everything on one system if possible.

Offline Jakl

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2014, 06:19:03 PM »
Why not use Toast - using mac volume format.
Then split the file using stuffit maybe if it can - haven't tried it though
splitting to multiple 1 Gb sizes.

Offline Syntho

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2014, 07:09:36 PM »
Would that preserve HD authorizations?

supernova777

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2014, 08:32:02 PM »
superduper http://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html
carboncopycloner https://www.bombich.com/
retrospect http://www.retrospect.com/products/mac

but..
ponder this
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2217120?start=0&tstart=0

Quote
You don't need any additional software. Drag the source drive's icon on the desktop to the destination drive, open the folder on the destination drive, and move the folders to the top level of that drive. Alternatively, open the source drive's icon and drag everything inside to the destination drive.




Offline SonikArchitects

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 07:33:08 PM »
Just a heads up there is a problem with this (that I know you guys are aware of). It's this. IF the installs still work (ie are not motherboard specific, sometimes even cracks will no longer work after using the above methods) you still have to consider the following: every G4 has a different operating system. Read that again. This is from talking to the Mac development team that wrote OS9, all the versions (9-9.2.2) are machine specific. So if you carbon copy lets say and it does retain your installs, you have to put that drive in another one of the same machines. Ie mirror door to mirror door, Sawtooth to Sawtooth.

I'd love to hear here who's done this, with what methods and with what rate of success.
Thanks all!
_BT

Offline Syntho

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2014, 09:02:42 AM »
All of that software is for OSX. I'd like to get something for OS9 and prior. I may try the Toast thing but I'm not sure if that's gonna work so well. It would be great if there were some kind of software that imaged the hard drive - partitions and authorizations included - and it compressed it afterward. The best way for right now is to just use Clonezilla but there is no version for PPC CPUs. Guess I have to take the SSD out the machine and put it into another first.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2014, 09:33:16 AM »
... every G4 has a different operating system. Read that again. This is from talking to the Mac development team that wrote OS9, all the versions (9-9.2.2) are machine specific.

That's not the full true. Some (but not all) Mac Os 9 versions are machine specific, but even those "machine specific" versions are backwards compatible, ie if you have the last Machine specific (Mac Os 9.2.2 plus Mac Os CPU Software 5.9 for the MDD) you can use it ( and it is recommended ) from the G4 MDD to the G4 Sawtooth.
Those versions were named "Machine Specific" because it were tailored for machines that were made after the issue of Mac Os 9.2 universal install and usually have some bugs fixed and improvements mainly related to this new hardware, but generally beneficial for older systems.

Quote
So if you carbon copy lets say and it does retain your installs, you have to put that drive in another one of the same machines. Ie mirror door to mirror door, Sawtooth to Sawtooth.

When you startup a Mac with a cloned drive, in the same way that a copy protected program haven't noticed this change, the Mac Operating System haven't noticed also. So if you clone a Hard Disk from a PowerBook to a MDD, the MDD may think for a wile that is a PowerBook... but no big problem, a simple file preferences removed and problem solved I think.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2014, 09:42:13 AM »
Just a heads up there is a problem with this (that I know you guys are aware of). It's this. IF the installs still work (ie are not motherboard specific, sometimes even cracks will no longer work after using the above methods) you still have to consider the following: every G4 has a different operating system. Read that again. This is from talking to the Mac development team that wrote OS9, all the versions (9-9.2.2) are machine specific. So if you carbon copy lets say and it does retain your installs, you have to put that drive in another one of the same machines. Ie mirror door to mirror door, Sawtooth to Sawtooth.

I'd love to hear here who's done this, with what methods and with what rate of success.
Thanks all!
_BT

mactron
you are talking to the guy who wrote music DIRECTLY FOR APPLE

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec01/articles/briantranseau.asp

if he has met apple staff... and spoken with them in person...there just might be a chance he knows something u dont..
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs45bsjy6qA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs45bsjy6qA</a>
sonikarchitects music was used by apple to demonstate the power of the g5 @ WWDC 2003 (3:33 time index)
to showcase cubase on pc vs logic on mac
using music he composed for the movie THE MATRIX
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133093/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0242653/

while the later versions may "work fine" backward compatible..
hes saying that the exact versions were tweaked + tuned to perfection
for each specific machine by the developers...
arjen_1 has claimed that his powermac g4 quicksilver works better with its specific version
that it shipped with..  perhaps this is why sooo many people have wierd issues.. caused by using the wrong version of mac os 9 with the wrong hardware.. ie: using a 9.22 MDD version of mac os 9 on a quicksilver.. etc etc

if it is completely true... this would mean that we REALLY should start tryign to compile the original "Restore" disks for each mac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

recently i posted about trying to find the original sawtooth restore disc http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1737.msg8028#msg8028

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313&_nkw=power+macintosh+g4+software+install+or+restore&_sacat=0

we also dont really know how exactly the updates work
perhaps the mac os updates were coded to use special If statements to do special tweaks for the machine specific versions.. updating with tiny differences for each os version / machine specific .. we dont know for sure.. its possible

i have also written many times about how fast my g3 450mhz seems..
and i have thought sometimes that there must be some type of optimization of this version of mac os 9 its running (which was installed by the previous owner with the original restore discs!!!!!) maybe this is because its running its "optimized" machine specific version.. even tho the benchmark score is what u would expect it to be.. in relation to my other more powerful macs.. it "FEELS" very very fast.. similar to how my mdd feels in alot of tasks..
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 10:04:17 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline IIO

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2014, 09:46:08 AM »
i think what brian means is just that you can not exspect that everything works when you just copy a harddisk and put it into another computer. it is not only about beeing a newer model but also different add ons such as PCI cards.

but i dont think that copying a system something you have in mind at first when creating a cloned disk. that is also very useful to just backup your HD in case you loose it some day.

myself i dont need either, i just make "simple" backups of my files and folders when i need a safety copy, split into parts such OS9 system, programming files (mainly max in my case), audio projects, and application installs.

if a HD really chrashes, which happens once every 10 years, it is totally okay to reinstall a fresh OSX kernel and library, and the copy protection-required installers for audio and photoshop plug-ins.

it is also totally okay to loose your browser cache, 20 years old text notes about your ex-gf, and two dozens of ego shooter game installs. under circumstances, loosing these files can even be a benefit.

as long as your personal work or things like the content of your "preferences" folder is somewhere on back-up media, all is okay.

p.s. compressing files is something one really dont need to do for OS9 either. i hated myself lots for using .sit or .zip when i wanted to copy and resort a bunch of files (on 200 CDs) some years back. in OSX it can make sense, for *nix, windows or classic macos it is a waste of time.

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Syntho

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2014, 11:02:57 AM »
When you authorize some software with a serial number or a CD, I'm guessing that the software is authorized in different ways depending on how it was programmed. There may be a hidden file somewhere on the drive but there may be some other weird invisible authorization that can only be copied via imaging the entire drive.

I'd use the simple drag+drop thing but that's what I'm worried about. I think I might try using Toast to do this but I'm unsure just how much it will actually copy over as far as authorizations. I have a 1TB SATA drive running on my 9600 so I've got room to store the entire 128GB SSD.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2014, 11:50:18 AM »
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2014, 12:17:47 PM »
When you authorize some software with a serial number or a CD, I'm guessing that the software is authorized in different ways depending on how it was programmed. There may be a hidden file somewhere on the drive but there may be some other weird invisible authorization that can only be copied via imaging the entire drive.

I'd use the simple drag+drop thing but that's what I'm worried about. I think I might try using Toast to do this but I'm unsure just how much it will actually copy over as far as authorizations. I have a 1TB SATA drive running on my 9600 so I've got room to store the entire 128GB SSD.
this has been discussed by mactron but.. one more time..

its more like it beccomes an equation... involving a system check..
like algebra.
(motherboard ID hardware + hd brand name) = 345245 etc etc
things that an os can "See" about the system
and then when u copy it to a new drive
it checks the motherboard id + it comes up false because its not the same value
so then it defaults to its unregistered state..

things like that

Offline IIO

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2014, 03:48:32 PM »

There may be a hidden file somewhere on the drive but there may be some other weird invisible authorization that can only be copied via imaging the entire drive.

I'd use the simple drag+drop thing but that's what I'm worried about.

maybe i am just trolling, but i seriously ask about the benfit of copying invisible files and/or other/any entries of a filesystem compared to reinstalling and reauthorising.

cloning a complete HD might take 8 hours where the reauthorisation of two dozen VST plug-ins will take only 45 minutes.

and it might be cool for the one or other case constellation, but it is not a generic solution for everything anyway. think only of all the copy protection systems which are using ethernet ID. my legal copy of melodyne for example will not survive the move to a new computer, even if it is the same HD. :)

but maybe i am just trolling.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2014, 03:51:19 PM »
btw, mactron ist right (in the ASR thread) that steinberg/waldorf CDs also run from images. so all you have to do is install the plug-in file (without possible content) on your desktop, move it to the trash, and all copies of you pug-in in their original locations are authorised again.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

supernova777

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2014, 04:44:11 PM »
btw, mactron ist right (in the ASR thread) that steinberg/waldorf CDs also run from images. so all you have to do is install the plug-in file (without possible content) on your desktop, move it to the trash, and all copies of you pug-in in their original locations are authorised again.

shame that u cant explain this better.. sounds like valuable information, however written in this way it is mostly useless to any reader.. but i realize english isnt your first language.. perhaps it would be easier for u to write in german..and then i could actually translate with google and get some useful info;) lol

supernova777

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2014, 10:42:17 PM »
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1754.msg8607#msg8607

back to what i was saying..

i just checked my "mac os rom" on my powermac g3 B&W 450mhz..
the one i always say feels so very fast for its cpu..
and its running mac os rom 8.9.1!!!!!!

my question now is.. is this a special version rom for the B&W?
or is this the "default rom" from a retail mac os 9 install?


so this goes back to the theory that each of these rom files are specifically tuned
for a specific machine.. and  like BT said.. each of these operating systems were tuned
uniquely for each unique machine... the same way "CUBASE" is referred to as the same program
for mac + pc and from version to version are very very different "under the hood"

some things were probably not meant to be tinkered with.. like changing of rom files..
which is something that aspiring hacker-types would mess around with..
but perhaps these people overwriting rom files to get a later version number
are doing something very wrong..
and breaking the uniquely fine tuned rom for that unique machine

its too bad we have no real representatives or programmers from the os 9 team here now to tel us for sure;(

but the rom is software firmware... which gets installed by the installer
but if the installers are all specific to each type of g4.. then there must be specific rom files + os
which were "intended for" + "extensively tested" with that specific machine


« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 11:20:49 PM by chrisNova777 »

Offline IIO

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2014, 12:55:44 PM »

quoting myself now:

i think what brian means is just that you can not exspect that everything works when you just copy a harddisk and put it into another computer. it is not only about beeing a newer model but also different add ons such as PCI cards.

u can for example also not run 9.0 on an MDD or 9.2.2 on a 9600. while the ROM files might be downwards compatible, other parts of the system are not.

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline MacTron

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2014, 01:04:43 PM »
About Restrospect Backup:
Would that preserve HD authorizations?
No it doesn't. I just check it.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2014, 01:13:27 PM »
... or 9.2.2 on a 9600. while the ROM files might be downwards compatible, other parts of the system are not.

All we need to do is to restore some drivers that Apple deliberately removed. LOL
Do you remember "OS9 Helper" :

https://eshop.macsales.com/osxcenter/OS9Helper/Framework.cfm?topic=32
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Offline IIO

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Re: Good HD cloning software?
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2014, 01:20:04 PM »

thats right, WE might get it all to become a one-click solution one day. bu then we need a new name for this OS: OS9 Miraculix! :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com