special os restore disc required for lowest compatible (shipped) os version

[supernova777]

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1835
according to this info
am i correct in my thinking that the (3) means that a powermac g4 agp (Sawtooth) needs a special version of 8.6 for it to work properly?

These computers are supported by the version of Mac OS included with the computer when it was purchased; retail copies of Mac OS with the same (or earlier) version number may not include the system software components necessary to start up these models. These computers are also supported by all subsequent versions of Mac OS.

and i cannot do  a commercial cd install of 8.6 (like the one we have in download section)?
what benefit is there to running os 8.6?
8.6 Update Released (May 1999)
pro tools 5 had just come out,  logic was still in 3.x (3-4 months befor 4.0 was released) cubase was at v3.5xx, cakewalk metro 4.. live + reason probably still under heavy development or perhaps not even thought of yet, digital performer was at v2.5

i thought we had some original g4 restore discs posted .. someone had uploaded the QS restore disc series (4 cds?)

Power Macintosh G3 (Blue and White) - special version 8.5
powermac g4 pci (Sawtooth) - special version 8.6
powermac g4 agp (Sawtooth  - special version 8.6
powermac g4 gigabit ethernet - special version 9.0
powermac g4 cube - special version 9.0
powermac g4 digital audio - special version 9.1
powermac g4 original quicksilver - special version 9.2.1
Power Mac G4 (QuickSilver 2002) - special version 9.2.2
Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors) - special version 9.2.2
Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors 2003) - special version 9.2.2

im guessing that the qs2002, + mdds special version 9.2.2 is the drag install + os9general.dmg that we have posted already
but what about these other special versions?
are they only obtainable on the original restore discs for that model?
i guess the only thing to do (easiest to do) is simply use the next version up
or safest to do is simply use 9.2.2 as most of us already have been.

i guess theres no benefit of running a lower version?

these special versions reminds me of my imac 2008..
apparently it can run 2007 version of tiger but the drive has to be formatted + installed by another
2006-2007 "white" imac in target disc mode for it to work... i was trying for some time to find someone
who has one of these white imacs who could make a fresh install and then clone the install to a .dmg so
that i might be able to run the intel version of tiger on my aluminum 2008 imac...
i still hope i can get this one day.. i was really pissed when i brought my imac home and i wasnt able
to install tiger on it!!!!

[supernova777]

does anyone have the original restore discs for the powermac g4 (sawtooth) PCI & AGP models??
(Mac os 8.6 - 1999)


i think this is the correct image.. it showws SSW version 8.6

[MacTron]

does anyone have the original restore discs for the powermac g4 (sawtooth) PCI & AGP models??
(Mac os 8.6 - 1999)
i think this is the correct image.. it showws SSW version 8.6

Maybe I have it...

Any way , when you read "Machine special version" the only important thing is the Mac Os ROM version, usually.

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA22055



If your machine can run Mac os 9.2 forget about 9.1, 9.0 or even 8.6.

In short:

Mac os 8.6: A good Mac Os version.
Mac os 9.0: Slow and more unstable than mac Os 8.6.
Mac os 9.1: Only slowest than mac Os 8.6
Mac os 9.2: Not  more slow or unstable than mac Os 8.6, but better IMHO.

So if your Mac can run Mac Os 9.2 (CPU 5.9) and Mac Os ROM 10.2 .1, forget about the remaining versions...

[MacTron]

Maybe I have it...

Maybe someday I had it... but today I can't find it.
Anyway I'll upload to my FTP folder the "Mac Os Rom 2.5.1" file. This is the ONLY ROM that can boot ANY Mac Os 8.6 installed into a G4 AGP "Sawtooth".

[supernova777]

thanks mactron
but ive never changed a mac os rom before
whats involved in doing that? is it just a file on the drive?
simple file overwrite? or is it firmware that must be flashed?

[MacTron]

thanks mactron
but ive never changed a mac os rom before
whats involved in doing that? is it just a file on the drive?
simple file overwrite? or is it firmware that must be flashed?

Just replace one file for another.
It is best to do it in a different Hard Disk or partition just in case...

[supernova777]

i think this is the cd u need for a B&W

[supernova777]

according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_8
both the PCI G4 YIKES + Sawtooth AGP G4 require a special machine specific version of mac os 8.6
and the Power Macintosh G3 Blue and White requires a special machine specific version of mac os 8.5

i have read from many places that these machines were much faster running their original tweaked version of the os
it would be great to add this disc to our collection of downloads
does anyone have it?

[supernova777]

lo' and behold;) 

[supernova777]

i wonder if installing the updates to the original machine specific installers would still result in the os retaining its 'machine specific' optimizations
or if installing an update would effectively nullify the whole point of using the machine specific installer in the first place


here im finding a message of someone who experienced a big speed increase using the original installer for a B&W yosemite
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/g3-5-list/JX0wBfGx5YA

I’m using it now for around two years and I’m very happy with it. I had a lot
of help from people here in the G-Group to make it run again and to have it
run its original OS.

Recently I’ve started using the original Mac OS it came with: 8.5.1. I found
that the big advantange would be speed! The classic Mac OS is very fast and
responsive on this Power Mac machine: 350 MHz and 1 GB of RAM is really a
high-end configuration for it.

[MacTron]

Mac OS X 10.4.11 in a 350 MHz G3...
This guy will find extremely fast even Mac Os 9.0 -the worst Mac Os version- LOL

[supernova777]

true 

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_350.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_400.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_350_agp.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_400_agp.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_450.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_500.html

all these machines shipped with 8.6 originally "machine specific"
but was it the same cd?? or each version machine specific... thats overkill.

im hoping this cd is compatible with g4-450mhz agp
"Power Macintosh G4 yikes os 8.6.iso.sit"
obviously it was just labelled this by whoever made the file

speaking of overkilll its over kill they made so many versions of the same mac..
just to charge different prices

[MacTron]

true 

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_350.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_400.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_350_agp.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_400_agp.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_450.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_500.html

all these machines shipped with 8.6 originally "machine specific"
but was it the same cd?? or each version machine specific... thats overkill.

im hoping this cd is compatible with g4-450mhz agp
"Power Macintosh G4 yikes os 8.6.iso.sit"
obviously it was just labelled this by whoever made the file

speaking of overkilll its over kill they made so many versions of the same mac..
just to charge different prices

The "last" ROM version that can boot Mac OS 8.6 will boot them all.
The same for Mac Os 9.2.

Machine Specific version of the Mac OS: "A few drivers in the ROM file and bunch of patches to avoid a System crash in this new Mac while we don't have a Mac OS version that officially could be installed on this new Mac".
IMHO & AFAIK.

[MacTron]

im hoping this cd is compatible with g4-450mhz agp
"Power Macintosh G4 yikes os 8.6.iso.sit"

Not at all.
But the reverse is TRUE.
ie : the Sawtooth Mac Os 8.6 will boot the Yikes and the other older ones.

[supernova777]

yes but the 8.6 cd isnt labelled "yikes" or not the cd itself
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1737.msg8028#msg8028

i cant find any documentation about this other code "lz691-2404a"
that would differentiate a yikes 8.6 from a sawtooth 8.6

here i find some discs that arent even labelled which version of mac os
maybe these are 9.0 or 9.0.4 but i dont understand why they wouldnt label the version like every other disc

the yikes + the sawtooth were introduced at the same time

[supernova777]

looking at my model specifically
g4 450mhz

Pre-Installed MacOS:    8.6*    Maximum MacOS:    X 10.4.11
*"Post-speed dump" models shipped with Mac OS 8.6 and all models are compatible with this version of the Mac OS. "Pre-speed dump" models originally shipped with a machine-specific version of Mac OS 8.5 and are not compatible with Mac OS 8.5.1

wtf how do i know if i have a post-speed dump or pre-speed dump.
ive never heard of this

so i guess 8.5.1 is for b&w g3 only.. and there was a custom version of 8.5 for sawtooth g4 450mhz that ive never heard of.. or seen for a limited batch of the g4 450mhz's

[supernova777]

ok heres some more info re: speed bump  vs speed dump 
http://apple-history.com/g4agp

Announced in September 1999, alongside the PowerMac G4 (PCI Graphics), the PowerMac G4 (AGP Graphics) was a major revision of the PowerMac line. Based on the Unified Motherboard Architecture, The G4 AGP was built around the MPC 7400 chip, which was dramatically faster than its predecessor, the PPC 750 (for a more detailed description of the 7400, click here.).

The G4 AGP introduced a number of performance improvements, including AGP-based graphics, AirPort compatibility, a faster memory bus, DVD-ROM or RAM standard, an internal FireWire port, 2 separate USB buses for a combined 24 Mbs, a 2X (133 MHz) AGP slot, and up to 1.5 GB of RAM. The G4 AGP also introduced the new professional color, "graphite."

The G4 AGP started at $2499 for the 450 MHz configuration with a 20 GB hard drive and 128 MB of RAM, and $3499 for the 500 MHz configuration with a 27 GB hard drive and 256 MB or RAM (both included internal Zip drives).

There were extreme supply issues with the G4 initially, due largely to Motorola's inability to deliver the 7400 chips in adequate supply. This was further compounded by an "errata" in the initial revision of the 7400 that effectively lowered the ceiling of the chip to 450 MHz. As a result, all models of the G4 were "speed dumped" in October. The $2499 450 MHz model was lowered in speed to 400 MHz, and the $3499 500 MHz model was lowered to 450 MHz. The price, and all other specs were the same.

Not a single first-run G4/500 shipped, and very few $2499 G4/450s ever made it to the channel. Orders placed before the speed reduction were honored, with the exception of the 500 MHz orders, which were filled with 450 MHz models with more Memory.

A 350 MHz configuration was subsiquently added to replace the similar G4 (PCI Graphics) configuration a month later, and the whole line was speed-bumped back up to 400/450/500 in February 2000.

http://apple-history.com/g4pci

The PowerMac G4 (PCI Graphics) was announced in September 1999, along with the PowerMac G4 (AGP Graphics). Based on the same motherboard as the "Blue and White" G3, the G4 PCI added a Motorola MPC 7400 processor to an already succesful machine. Apple billed the 7400 as a "Super Computer on a chip", due to the fact that it was capable of excecuting more than a billion instructions per second (a gigaflop). Much of the 7400's speed increase was due to a new set of instructions, which were executed by a new unit on the chip. Motorola refers to this new unit as the "AltiVec" unit, while Apple publicly refers to it as the "Velocity Engine." The Velocity Engine vastly increased the speed of many common processor-intensive tasks.

Originally, the MPC 7400 chip had been planned to debut in the G4 AGP model, but Apple was not able to get the new machine ready in time. The G4 PCI had been in the works in case of such an event, and allowed Apple to ship 7400-equipt machines while they worked out the final bugs of the G4 AGP. The G4 PCI introduced the new case design, similar to that of the B&W G3, but tinted in the new professional color, "graphite." The G4 PCI was priced at a modest $1599, and shipped standard with 64 MB of RAM, a 10 GB hard drive, a 32x CD-ROM, 56 kbps modem. Zip and DVD-ROM/RAM drives were available as BTO options.

There were extreme supply issues with the G4 initially, due largely to Motorola's inability to deliver the 7400 chips in adequate supply. This was further compounded by an "errata" in the initial revision of the 7400 that effectively lowered the ceiling of the chip to 450 MHz. As a result, all models of the G4 were "speed dumped" in October. The PowerMac G4 PCI was decreased in speed to 350 MHz, for the same $1599 price tag. Existing orders for the G4 PCI/400 were largely honored.

The G4 (PCI Graphics) was terminated at the end of 1999 in favour of a similar configuration based on the G4 (AGP) motherboard.

http://apple-history.com/g3blue

Although it shares the name of its predecessor, the "Blue" PowerMac G3 is an altogether different animal. Sporting an all new translucent "easy-open" case design (code named "El-Capitan"), the new G3 was the first Apple model to support FireWire, Apple's new high-speed serial standard. It was also the first professional model to include USB, although it also came with a "legacy" ADB port for backwards compatibility. In a controversial move, Apple chose not to include standard serial ports, a floppy drive, or on-board SCSI (Apple instead chose Ultra ATA). An internal Zip was available, however, as were SCSI expansion cards. The G3 was available in a number of configurations, starting at $1599, and rounding out near $5000 for the fully loaded server configuration. In late April, the "Blue" line was speed-bumped by 50 MHz, bringing the high-end model to 450 MHz.

[supernova777]

Motorola MPC 7400 in the same mobo as the g3..
so technically my B&W is the identical to a yikes..
so i could put a g4 zif cpu inside it? but.. theres no point
because its a g3 450mhz.. and the g4 zif was only made at 400mhz

[supernova777]

Mac os 8.6: A good Mac Os version.
Mac os 9.0: Slow and more unstable than mac Os 8.6.
Mac os 9.1: Only slowest than mac Os 8.6
Mac os 9.2: Not  more slow or unstable than mac Os 8.6, but better IMHO.

So if your Mac can run Mac Os 9.2 (CPU 5.9) and Mac Os ROM 10.2 .1, forget about the remaining versions...

makes sense..
except for PCI graphics G3/G4 & imac g3's
i think these ones seem to really benefit from running 8.6
and also the 600 series cpu power macintoshes... (9600, 8600, 7500 etc)
probably benefit from running 8.6 too, or wait.. they can only run 8.1?
8.6 with a cpu transplant.. because 8.6 requires powerpc cpu? am i right?

[supernova777]

version 9.0.4 is not for sawtooth
its for mystic / gigabit ethernet..
close but not exact