Changing extension load order

[supernova777]

wtf does "Joy!peffpwpc" mean.. this is what the pcidriver starts with when u open it in hexedit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferred_Executable_Format
http://web.archive.org/web/20040202224433/http://developer.apple.com/documentation/mac/runtimehtml/RTArch-89.html

is the driver the one originall from http://cdn-data.motu.com/downloads/pci424/pci_os9.hqx ?

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/14619/motu-pci-324-424-audio-drivers
this one says v1.08? ok nvm i think its for osx

[supernova777]

i dont understand the post from the guy on the digi forum.
theres no way to use Motu audio system to run pro tools??? is there?

[Syntho]

Digi forum? Do you have a link?

[supernova777]

digidesign.. u posted the link.. he said he was using 001 + 324 in same machine.. it made sense reading the original post.. the post revealed he wasnt using both at same time rather switching between the two.....

anyway.. good luck with your problem solving

[DieHard]

Unfortunately, many DAW components (both hardware and software) have some difficulty when it comes to processor upgrades.  Back in the day, when the company I worked for was configuring many DAW systems (all Mac based) from the Nubus architecture thru the PCI based G3s and G4s, it became very apparent that this little extra twist (a 3rd party CPU upgrade) could really play havoc when trying to get a system up and running correctly.  There were combinations of CPU upgrades and interfaces that did not play well together and combinations of DAW software and CPU upgrades that did not fully function correctly.

in the end, we gave up on third party CPU upgrades for DAW systems since it started to feel like we were configuring PCs, not Macs… too much shit to remember of what worked right with what revision of what.  So we told our clients to stick with unmodified Mac systems and just pay a little more if more speed was needed.  Apple did a pretty good job, IMO of matching overall performance with bus archiitecture, CPU speed, and stability… Now, I am not saying we wouldn't take a piece of shit QS 733 CPU (with only 256 K Cache) and upgrade that baby with a Dual 867 QS CPU… I am just saying we avoided the 3rd party variable that would have us up till 3 am trying to figure out what was going wrong with the system.

I think the main problem is that most CPU upgrades are tested in the arena of real world statistical calculations and benchmarks… and yes, most applications worked just peachy, but when it comes to DAW software and audio interfaces (all tested on stock macs), this is a different thing all together. Some DAW software and audio interfaces rely on things that inherently original apple, and a third party CPU is like a alien unknown variable with CPU speed software introduced and a different balance of Bus vs CPU.

I am not saying it is NOT possible to have a great running DAW with a 3rd party upgrade, many have achieved this… I am just saying it requires more research than a stock system, try to get a "Known" tested configuration that works for Mac model, CPU upgrade, DAW software, and Audio interface.  That is why I think many, like Mactron, went the over clocking route… it is still the original system, but just revved up a little faster, introducing a little more heat and a few other variable, but overall, the systems "looks" the same to DAW components.

[Syntho]

The Sonnet CPU + MOTU 324 was a needle in a haystack as far as finding info online about it. It was only after I had it in there that I discovered a post from back in 2000 on a newsgroup where some guy said that that exact combo wouldn't work due to an extension conflict.

However I also found another guy saying that he has a NewerTech CPU running a Pro Tools Mix rig on top of a 324 w/Digital Performer and it was rock solid. That's why I bought a cheap 300mhz NewerTech CPU. Not as fast as the Sonnet, but it's something at least.

Speaking of that, I also read on the Digi forum a while back that you should probably avoid almost all manufacturers altogether except for NewerTech for CPU upgrades. More people have gotten solid recording systems out of NewerTech CPUs than any from what they're saying.

[supernova777]

syntho i have asked u a bunch of times what u have actually fucking done to fix this
noone can help u if u arent being thorough in your approach to communicate abotu what u hav actually tried
re: gettijng the pci 324 extensiont to not load before the sonnet one

so i guess u have a few options

1) give up and stop trying to fix it and chalk it up to incokmpatible + use a different audio interface
2) start fighting hook tooth + nail exploring every possibility and actually getting someone to help u who actually knows how to hex edit a datafork, double confirm the ascii character llookup
this could be as simple as finding the one character that comes before the one used by the motu.. and changing one  character

[Syntho]

I think I'm about to vomit

 

[supernova777]

aww man sorry to hear that
i think u should keep this as a side technical debug challenge
and change your audio i/o for this machine to the pro tools hardware or some other audio i/o
use the pci-324 on the machines that came out later (ie: powermac g4 models at least)
i think the pci-324 debuted in 1999... 

http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technotes/pci-324-system-requirements
even tho the requirements are less, this is a grey area incompatibility due to the 3rd party cpu..
so just sidestep the issue by using a different audio i/o on this specific powermac 9600 build

i would liek to see u beat it.. but it looks like its gonna take some headscratching... and it sounds like ur not 'feelin it'


to me, the 9600 seems like a perfect match for pro tools TDM or maybe the audiomedia III?
or if its logic you want to run why not track down an AudioWerk 8 card... its mentioned in my book on logic 4 that
this emagic specific card works really well (duh, they made both the hardware + software) and instead of using ASIO
it uses EASI some proprietary version of the technology (or similar technology) made by emagic themselves




i mean there it is the 9600 in all its glory modeled next to the pt24mixplus system in its product shot

or why not try an event/echo interface

this card is from 1997 and looks like a piece of shit but sounds amazing for some reason i have it installed on my win98 box
i think its incompatible with the later g3/g4s but compatible just fine with the beige macs

but -- i thought the whole reason u got a 9600 was to get the extra 2 pci slots to be able to house more pro tools tdm cards!
which motu box were u connecting to the 324?

[supernova777]

u could try out a samplecellII card and turn your 9600 into a sampler
_BT is lookin for the installer cd as u probably saw in the thread
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1761.new#new

thats another card from the beige mac era...

[Syntho]

My 9600 is the first version they came out with, an old 200mhz one. As far as I know the motherboard on this one is different from the later ones. To test it I'm going to have to find a 9600 that's a later version but I don't feel up to all of that right now.

[Syntho]

I think I finally got it after about two weeks of screwing with it, and it was only until the NewerTech card showed up today that I was able to figure it out.

Hey Chris, you know how we can't get MOTU Unisyn to work without a SCSI drive on a 9600? But how it works fine on a G4? Somehow MOTU software knows the specs of a system and what came stock on it, and if it sees anything missing from it it freaks out and won't work.

I think I can apply the same to the MOTU drivers, but with another missing part. Both the Sonnet extension and the NewerTech extensions automatically disable the motherboard cache on the 9600 (I think mine is soldered in permanently and other, later 9600s have removable cache chips). For some reason the MOTU extensions aren't liking when the 9600's onboard L2 cache is missing (disabled in this case).

The Sonnet software comes with no options to tweak stuff at all, but the NewerTech control panel has a few things. It was only after I turned the motherboard's L2 cache back on that it started working. Now it has me wondering how this is working since now I've got 64k of L1 cache, 1MB of L2 cache (backside), and the motherboard's cache is appearing as L3 cache in Gauge Pro.

[Syntho]

I've been screwing with this machine for 12 hours now, I'll be back with another update after some sleep. I hope I've finally fixed it...

[supernova777]

things changed considerably from 97-2000
the motu stuff came out later on.. after the b&W g3..
it was as radical a change (for the time) as the intel/mac switch of 2006
in that, alot of people instantly dropped the old for thew in favour of such performance increases etc
and the focus of the developers isntanyl changed.. to not really caring about fixing eveyrthing or even testing the older gear compatibility
this is why i say, use the pci-324 on a b&w or newer computer..
find an i/o from the day+ age of the 9600 for the 9600...
other options
a korg 1212 card, a sonorus studi/o card, lexicon made a pci card.
theres tons of options.. or just use it for midi and fuck the audio i/o alltogether
if u can remember all that stuff i dug up about midi timing being supposedly more steady with the 200mhz and below macs
ill ahve to diig up the thread again that i started posting pics of 9600s in
from like 3months back, actually more that was in spring...

[supernova777]

so what the hell happened in the end?
did u take out the cpu? or take out the 324?

I think I finally got it after about two weeks of screwing with it, and it was only until the NewerTech card showed up today that I was able to figure it out.

u got another 9600 cpu upgrade?

[Syntho]

The MOTU software doesn't like that the motherboard's onboard cache is disabled. I had to re-enable it which isn't possible with a Sonnet because there is no control panel.