what is destructive Audiosuite editing? BT reveres this feature..

[DieHard]

From BT

videos on my IBM 5150 using Sequencer plus Gold, no mouse and rocking the ass of some midi sequencing in a way that is both indescribable and unimaginable until you see it.

I was a Voyetra Dealer back in the day and we have discussed this amazing App (For DOS) and later a crappier version was made for Windoze.  Search the forum for other posts. I still have this app Archived and extra VAPI drivers included as PC disk images if anyone needs this.

I ran this program at the Northport Rock City studios in the late 80s/early 90s it was slaved via SMPTE with Tascam Reel to Reel units, this thing tracked rock solid

[DieHard]

From BT...

As a hysterical asside, I just got an email from a senior Apple programer on the Logic team about a month ago and it said (quoting) "You know that feature you've been asking to be added back to Logic for about 17 years? We finally did it". So destructive editing (pulling up a plugin and processing, not freezing) is now in Logic X.

This is part of the reason Logic X is dead to me, but I digress lol.

Wow, that is depressing since Logic X is spaghetti-code IMO.  It is so powerful, yet riddled with bugs (like the inability to play loops without flanging). Logic pro 9 is so superior in speed and workflow... again IMO.  I can tell you that the Candy (like drummer and Alchemy) is so tempting that I switched to Logic X and back to Logic 9 (3X...lol).  I don't think that Logic X will ever move away from "Garage Band Pro"  The dumbed too many things down... just as the Mac Finder no longer displays all the audio attributes that it used to.  I will not move to Logic X again until all the Core timing functions are rock solid.  Logic X has many revisions that fix bugs and create new problems that were not present is the previous build.  This shows that it is a large programming mess that even the development team has difficulty in knowing wich pieces of string to pull without un-raveling a ball of yarn.

[SonikArchitects]

I couldn't agree more about OS X Diehard!! Dude have you ever come across at 32 channel Voyetra interface for a DOS rig? Sorry to hijack this thread but I've looked for one of those forever. I've got a 5150 with an MPU-IPC and a 386 P70 with same. Would kill for one with 32 channels. I won't believe that exists (even though I've read all about it) until I'm holding one.

Seq+ is the greatest MIDI sequence ever written. I can literally use no mouse, blindfolded with cursor keys and insert and delete. Can't wait to make some videos on that and OS9 destructive editing.

Best!
_BT

[IIO]

i think the word "destructive" is misleading. if i make a bad drawing and tear it apart only to make a new effort, instead of trying to make it better, am i being destructive?

in the world of protools users, who mainly use this program to add some folies to pepsi cola TV ads, it would definetly count as "destructive" when you try to replace a shit recording with a shit recording plus echo effect but then loose the shit recording by accident.

for arts and sciene i agree: we should use the trash can more.

my good friend biogen used to reformat his harddrive every 2 years or so and started all over with everything, including installed programs. it can be a good way to deal with all the chaos, maybe it is the only way which works.

i have quoted him describing it in his own words here.

"In der Beschränkung zeigt sich erst der Meister".

in some realms, such as computer hardware and the financial situation, i can fullfill this.
in some others areas beschränkung ist the last thing i am supposed to follow.

[Protools5LEGuy]

WOW! Protools5LEGuy, can you use those audiosuite plugins in Logic??? That would do it for me if yes. PLEASE POST PICTS IF THIS WORKS!

Sorry for the confusion. These Audiosuite plugs work within PT LE. Just wanted to show what plugs are Audiosuite for a LE setup.

To use Digi hardware within Logic there are various workarounds. My friends back in the day used it as Direct I-O, leaving them without the use of VST plugs, but allowing full use of all the Inputs and Outputs.

Steinberg build an ASIO driver for AM-III, Digi 001 and M-Box (IIRC) that allowed to use VST plugs. That driver on the first boot of Logic makes a feedback that can destroy your speakers/headphones. Shut both down. You go on Logic to Audio Selection, deselect it and select it again and you are ready to rock (VST) with the Digi LE hardware. I have never heard of this to anyone, but it happens. It only happens the 1st time you open Logic with that ASIO driver.

On the Audio selection window, if you have TDM or HD or even a D24, it allows you 2 more ways select your hardware. Those options can be choosen, but I am no expert in.

Run as D.A.E. (Digidesign Audio Engine) seem the one you need, but no clue on how to get to Audiosuite there, but we will dig it out!

[Protools5LEGuy]

It seems that DAE can be used somehow with LE systems!

[Protools5LEGuy]

Let's try that DAE use with Logic 6.4.3 on the Digi 001. No DAE option works for me. I guess DAE should be only selected for MIX, d24 or HD systems. Or maybe I need the original DAE instead of the latest.

[Protools5LEGuy]

Using the 001 in Logic as ASIO via its Direct I/O drivers give no access to your beloved Audiosuite.

[Protools5LEGuy]

Let's try that DAE use with Logic 6.4.3 on the Digi 001. No DAE option works for me. I guess DAE should be only selected for MIX, d24 or HD systems. Or maybe I need the original DAE instead of the latest.

Revisiting my Totally hopeless in Cubase :/ post http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2178.0.html it seems that maybe a file called DigiSystemInit needed to ·start" the system in ASIO, but I never needed, maybe because I had installed PT 5.1.1 LE updated to 5.2.1LE and Logic 4 to 6.

Here is some MAGMA chassis DAE info http://archive.digidesign.com/download/daedsi/

[Protools5LEGuy]

My 001 wasn´t working on PT too even been recognized.   

Now testing on MDD 867 dual w AM-III. In Logic 6.4.3 audio driver ASIO Digidesign DirectIO I clicked on the no plugins under Premiere and it allowed me to choose the Premiere Audio plugins folder from Premiere 6.5. So, maybe, you can live with them instead of the Audiosuite ones. That would/could free you from using MAGMA and/or Digidesign Hardware and just use the Ti Book and RME or MOTU interfaces

The list is:

Auto Pan
Backwards (Audio)
Bass & Treble
Boost
Chorus
Compressor-Expander
Echo
Equalize
Fill Left
Fill Right
Flanger
Highpass
Lowpass
Multi-Effect
Multitap Delay
Noise Gate
Notchum Filter
Pan
Parametric EQ
Reverb
Swap Left&Right

I have to dig more about these Premiere Plug Ins. Lets see how much of these are Studio Grade. http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/adobe-after-effects-40

When I clicked under the Audiosuite menu in No Plugs Logic told me:

AudioSuite Plug-Ins are available when the DAE (3.1 or higher) is in use. The DAE is looking for a folder "Plug-Ins" within the "DAE Folder"

[DieHard]

I couldn't agree more about OS X Diehard!! Dude have you ever come across at 32 channel Voyetra interface for a DOS rig? Sorry to hijack this thread but I've looked for one of those forever. I've got a 5150 with an MPU-IPC and a 386 P70 with same. Would kill for one with 32 channels. I won't believe that exists (even though I've read all about it) until I'm holding one.

Seq+ is the greatest MIDI sequence ever written. I can literally use no mouse, blindfolded with cursor keys and insert and delete. Can't wait to make some videos on that and OS9 destructive editing.

Best!
_BT

I had several genuine Voyetra Dual MIDI with SMPTE Interfaces (ISA Card and breakout BOX),  I really don't think any survived my move from NY to CA, but I will look, they do 32 channels (Dual 16).  If I cannot find one, I will see if I can source one since I have the original Dealer database from Voyetra when they were a private company, before they were bought by turtle beach... I can make a few calls

Lastly, as long as you know how to set the hardware interrupts by hand (old school) you will have no problems.  If not you have to send parameters (DOS switches) when loading the VAPI drivers (I can tell you what batch files to edit, but it's been a while), otherwise the VAPI drivers will not load and Voyetra will not "see" the interface.

This guy (MIDI MAdness) scores with Voyetra professionally without a mouse in under 5 min !
http://www.midimadness.com/video-demos

Also, check out this post:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1195.msg17741.html#msg17741

[DieHard]

Here is the dream interface, from one of my previous posts:

The flagship interface the called the V-24s had 2 MIDI Ins and 4 MIDI Outs (64 possible channels) and it also generated and read SYMPTE time code (which was audio based digital time code format…sequencer morse code for clocking Tape machines and MIDI devices together)…

[SonikArchitects]

WOW Diehard 64 channels. JUST WOW. Okay cool keep me posted if you find anything above 16 working. I'd need help with the interupts/VAPI drivers for sure as I never had more than 16 chanels on that system. That's incredible.


We'll I found a Magma 3 slot and a Digi 001 for a grand total of 170$ so got both. I'll report to the group once I get some of this stuff working.

Right now I've got a Pepsi add to score. Jk.
Best,
_BT

[dr bu]

---

[dr bu]

Finally, option cut this in logic at 16 notes. Shrink the durations, add fade in and fade out to each slice (16 per bar for 16 bars), obviously do this in options with everything selected and not by hand.

Not familiar with Logic. What is "option cut/in options"? Is there something similar in Cubase?

[Syntho]

I've been doing this forever, but a little differently because the way I do it is basically making stems in analog. A lot of people these days record their music as dry and raw as possible, then either wait until the mixing stage to process, or more commonly just send their tracks into live FX plugins in their DAW and mix as they go. I prefer to make decisions early on and record my instruments as processed as possible so that I end up with mostly-finished tracks. I'm also HUGE on submixing and grouping things together, so I basically end up with processed stems to mix together in the end.

Take in mind that I'm more analog. I process my tracks on the way in, as we say. After throwing the faders up on all of my stems, I'm already 90% of the way there, and since my board has everything at unity, I've got a fresh board to work from and only a bit of this and that is needed to get it 100%. The importance of making decisions early and getting your tracks as close to finished as possible by grouping things together and processing cannot be understated. Wait until you've got literally 35 instances of effect plugins running on elements all over the mix. It'll drive you nuts. So build a house, one step at a time instead.

Mix your bass tracks together and have one bass track, one stereo guitar track etc. The only thing I leave a wee bit of wiggle room for is certain drum elements, but even with that I try to process early on (such as printing the reverb onto the snare and freeing up your reverb unit for something else). I often make a Pro Tools project just for processing a snare for an hour, then I transfer it to my hardware sampler. Now it's 100% when you trigger it, no processing needed (except maybe a little EQ). Not having to readjust your snare to verb ratio later on is awesome, but it all depends on if it's a more electronic type track or not. For more acoustic type drums, I usually have less wiggle room. For electronic stuff? Each instrument is its own little project really.

[IIO]

Digi did have the power to do this so it seems to me this was a creative decision. It's probably a bit of both!

you mean they introduced AS before RTAS because the lack of realtime plug-ins for non-TDM users were good for creativity?

try to open 4 reverbs on a 100Mhz PPC and you´ll see what i mean.

It does actually. It's in the sample editor. You select the plugin, set the parameters and hit render. Hence "destructive".

thats what i am saying: in PT you needed an AS plug-in. in cubase it was right in the master channel. in logic you had to record shit in realtime.

Of course you back up your source file

well ... then i´think i´d like to avoid that step.^^

in best case a tool would just give you two options, isnt it?

I personally can't stand freezing as it adds an additional several steps to the process I outlined above. You have to first put the plugins on the track, next freeze it, then flatten and start again. Audiosuite you open the plugin and process.

i dont like it either but for other reasons, and again i think youre mistaking what it does.

freezing is today implemented as a one-click option. it renders the track to file, and then plays the file from disk while turning the plug-ins off. all automatically, and the main difference to overwriting old files is that you can undo it.
i dont see myself using it for effects,. but it is a great CPU saver for virtual instruments tracks.

We finally did it".

yeah, right, as an additional option every new or old option is welcome.

it is always a PITA when they remove stuff from an app!


you just mentioned soundeffects last week - i´ve been doing a lot there back in the days, because it was simply faster to work with this system from our favourite dentist compared to "major" commercial programs.

but otherwise i am more the guy who removes the "save in" function from his apps with resedit and never deletes his backup archives of everthing. you never know...