Author Topic: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?  (Read 30468 times)

supernova777

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Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« on: July 14, 2014, 04:06:13 AM »


« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 03:44:04 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline Syntho

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 05:41:51 AM »
I've read people raving about it. It's a little different from other DAWs... maybe that's why I didn't mesh with it too well.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2014, 08:20:48 AM »
Yes I have tried it, but I don't like it.
Because it lacks VST instruments support and audio rendering to a file
I feel irritating his alien windows (like Logic and Performer)
Why so many DAW has to be so weird alien windows?
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline Syntho

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2014, 08:26:53 AM »
That's a good way to put it, MacTron. I wish the windows would be more  integrated. DP is sort of the same but less so.

supernova777

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2014, 08:40:02 AM »
i think vision is only really usefull if u have alot of midi instruments wired up to your mac..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwfX0k-fqK0[/youtube]

have you guys seent his video? its pretty cool , the video flys by very fast tho
hardly have time to read any of the titles on screen and he talks too fast
+ flys thru the info too fast.. but its very informative + showcases alot of the ways
in which the program works that is different from other apps..

i really think this app was light years ahead and that alot of these newer apps like A
ableton + reason stole alot of ideas from here for their programs!!!!!!!

i first became very interested in learning more about this
after seeing the ways in which vision incorporated alot of the same sort of non-linear techniques
+ loop/segment sequencing found in ableton live...

also its funny that opcode vision dissappeared around the same time that live came out for sale
i wonder if these germans paid off Gibson guitars to put opcode to death;) LOL

regardless, vision had some very cool tricks up its sleeve for composer/MIDI based studios
the type of studio that would have networked midi interfaces + many many different synths all
powered on + plugged in simultaneously thats the key to seeing what makes this different from cubase..
that this is a midi composer / arranger tool... with a splash of digital audio + vst effects.. but mostly focused
on midi composing and arranging

im very much interested in becoming familiar with it some more.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 10:57:05 PM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 07:33:50 PM »
Yes I have tried it, but I don't like it.
Because it lacks VST instruments support and audio rendering to a file
I feel irritating his alien windows (like Logic and Performer)
Why so many DAW has to be so weird alien windows?

i think audio rendering to file could easily be accomplished via an actual "loop back" wiring an output to an input on a multioutput sound card

the windows have a different structure with a reason,
while it could be confusing at first,
once u become familiar with it..
it then may become more clear the benefit of it's different abstraction from the linear layout
ie: segments/sequences and its layered approach to "do onces/affect many" functions
its definately has differences that make it a challenge to get familiar with + master
this is exactl what is intriguing me about it! and im by no means a master of it yet

im just an outsider loooking into a window;) saying ok that looks cool;) i wish to know this better

but yes vst lack of VST instrument support is a big fat (-)
but for working with hardware/gear/gm sound modules workstations like the motif/triton/proteus/jv etc this thing could be the bomb!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 03:06:27 AM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2014, 09:06:07 PM »
quick look at the windows pulldown: (very different & unfamiliar from other apps)



« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 06:00:46 PM by chrisNova777 »

Offline ioguie

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2015, 08:32:37 AM »
i think audio rendering to file could easily be accomplished via an actual "loop back" wiring an output to an input on a multioutput sound card

Import, export, and bouncing are all very easy in SVP.  Most tasks are accomplished via the File menu.  SVP's media management window is also very useful.

The manual covers import/export/bounce options in great detail.  Check the "Audio" manual (not the "MIDI" manual) and also (I think) the 4.5 addendum.

Offline English_Mac

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2015, 01:25:35 AM »
I'm all MIDI at my house, no VST things, I seem to be more aware of timing. I've noticed midi sequencing on Win never sounds tight, when I use older Mac, timing is tight. The little 68k Macs and Cubase = very tight but a faff, the 9500 with Vision seems good, although the system might lack in audio recording dept, but for tight midi sequences Vision/Mac seems good for me.

I know to tighten up XP various tweeks can be made, but still, with no tweeks the old Macs are tight.

Offline Syntho

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2015, 06:40:29 AM »
I think my opinion of Vision is changing after using it for a bit. It actually IS a cool program. I remember recently trashing Vision's piano roll, but after using it for a while, I think I actually like it better than in Logic. With Vision you get the actual note names on the left side. That keeps me from guessing like in Logic. I'm gonna keep using it and see how it turns out.

One thing is for sure though... nothing can beat Logic for all the hardware synth integration. I have SoundDiver linked up and it's a breeze to go back and forth.

I also like how when you click with the drum stick in the piano roll, you can immediately move the note up and down and get it just right. You can't do that in Logic.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 12:59:28 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline DieHard

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2015, 08:43:00 AM »
From this SOS article...
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct98/articles/studiovision.html
Quote
...the jewel in the crown is still featured only in Studio Vision Pro: Audio-MIDI conversions. Opcode got a US patent for this earlier this year, and it's probably one of the most powerful features of the software if you really want to get deeply into working with MIDI and audio, beyond just recording and playing back. At first sight, it's all very simple. You select a monophonic audio track, and you can convert this into a MIDI track. You can then edit the MIDI information, and convert it back to audio again. One use for this is to correct singers whose pitching is less than perfect, but there are lots of other uses for it
So obviously, as far as advanced features, SV was ahead of its time; however, it never really became as popular in project studios as PT or Cubase. The interface, unfortunately, stacks way too many windows IMO; yes it has some great features...
Quote
...killer MIDI sequencer that had a track list, fully editable by region selection, along with a miniature graphic representation. Just double-click any given track and voila' into editing mode, optionally selectable in preferences whether you liked a giant graphic or event list window. Want to edit another track along? Double-click that and edit the 2 (or more) tracks alongside. Want to solo (or mute) that track while in the edit window? Click Solo (or Mute). How about record-enable? Same thing. This last one took Motu 12 years before they finally added it to the event list window...

When I tried it, I should have put more time into it.  It is one of those programs that is hard to just dive into. I could never find what I wanted quickly when testing it out and I was unwilling to put in the time necessary.  The Mixer and Track view felt very 2 dimensional to me and had too many windows on top of each other after a few clicks, but looking back I never tested it on a dual display setup or larger that a 20" monitor; I am sure this is where it shines... like earlier Logic, if you pay your dues, you can layout the UI as you want it, instead of just learning what they gave you.  This "un-anchored" approach may leave the beginner a little dazed, but it is clear SVP had some very devoted users, and Gibson obviously did not know WTF they were doing by killing it.

I may put some time into 4.5.1 in the next few months, but most of my outboard gear is packed away.  SVP is a great piece of software to compliment a Studio with legacy MIDI gear, but my stuff is made "in the box" these days, so I may not be able to do much without the softsynths I am used to.

I did find this...
Quote
I use a program called Ugly VSTi to run softsynths and some stubborn plug ins with Vision. It's free.
Not sure if that is for VSTi 1 or 2 compatible stuff, but maybe someone has tried it with Vision.
Chris also mentioned it here...
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1370.msg5603#msg5603

Does anyone know if ugly can be used in OS9 with SVP to load VST version2 plugins ?

Offline Syntho

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2015, 08:54:30 AM »
The layout/window thing is what deterred me as well. I spent more time trying to find stuff than actually doing stuff.

I'm 100% outboard over here. No VSTis or plugins. Logic and SVP for midi, and Pro Tools for mixing. I guess that's why I choose them over Cubase or DP. I was on Cubase for over a decade though, and Cakewalk in before that in the late 90s.

Hey DH, what kind of outboard do you have stored away?

Offline DieHard

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2015, 09:05:01 AM »
(4) Roland jv-880s (Had 5, gave 1 to Chris)
(1) Roland D-100
(1) Roland U-200
(2) Roland 1080s
(1) Panasonic SV3800 DAT
(5) Motu 1224s
(2) MOTU 24i
(2) Audiophile 2496 FireWire
(2) Spare Mindprint TRIO SDIFF
(2) Backup Alesis HD24 Units (still use one live from Time to Time, I like the converters)
(3) Tascam DA-38
(2) Tascam DA-88
(1) Tascam HD-78
(2) Soundcraft Studio Spirit 32 Channel Boards
(3) 5' Racks of other stuff that I have not removes the covers off since I moved to CA in 2004

Diehard=Hoarder (See me on my new reality show)

Offline Syntho

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2015, 09:15:35 AM »
I've got a bunch of those myself. I've got 4x DA-38 machines and I track to them. I've always wanted an HD24 but don't wanna cough up $$$ for it just yet.

supernova777

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2015, 04:08:16 PM »
bravo syntho... its a very fucking cool program.. with very forward thinking light years ahead of anything else in its time frame!!!!!!!! ive been waiting for the day when i would see a post like this.. from either you or mactron! lol ;D

i was more hoping for:
'holy shit!! i get it! it rocks!! wow wtf!!'

:D

i honestly havent fully figured out / experienced the program yet
but from the insights from a few of the videos.. it looks to me to be the best for midi... hands down.. especially on an old 9600 mac.. its said to be more stable on the older os 7 + 8 rather then 9..

my plan to use vision is to use hardware + also a 2ndary machine for VSTs with a bazillion outputs.. and then route everything to a 3rd machine for protools or logic recording...... switching between them both.

i kind of associate vision + live together in my mind, not because they are similar in any way but because they brought a new way of thinking.. and unique workflow + user interface breakthroughs. i would categorize them as being out of the box in terms of their programming + approach...

honestly tho vision - i think is the epic pinnacle of "macintosh" type os9 ui.. put to its best use.. im really surprised that mactron isnt 100% into vision... vision has some serious advantages + user interface workflow for composing.. using it to control a 2ndary vst rig would be a great "best of both worlds" scenario

it reminds me alot of 'macromedia' software.. their software was pure genius.. innovative thinking..they made flash, freehand, director, they transformed the internet from 1997-2004 into the coolest shit ever by their authoring tools.. (god i miss the old indepedant pre-facebook internet!!) using their software taught me, that usually if something is "alien" (as mactron would put it) its usually because u dont understand teh thinking or workflow..but once u learn it. u learn WHY its setup the way it is.. and u have that Eureeka AHA I GET IT moment and everything falls into place.

diehard.. sell me your motu 24i ;)
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 01:00:01 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline Syntho

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2015, 04:20:49 PM »
The thing though is that Vision is more of a loop or pattern based sequencer. It's perfect for electronic and pop musicians, but my own personal stuff is more linear and progressive. Not that Vision can't do that, it can, but Logic seems the better sequencer for more advanced and detailed stuff all around.

I like how 'fast' Vision seems with programming but like how Logic lets me fine-tune at a ridiculous level of detail. I wish I could make the two have a child.

supernova777

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2015, 04:38:34 PM »
the secret to vision is the same as most mac related programs..
knowing the keyboard shortcuts + modifiers and how they affect the ui to do exactly what u want to do ..

this is crucial with any app u use..
we really should be focusing some more effort on documenting
these types of crucial information that turn a novice to an expert over night

Offline Syntho

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2015, 04:40:28 PM »
I downloaded the manual pack. I don't know what is what. Is the midi manual + audio manual the 'manual'?

Offline GaryN

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2015, 06:57:53 PM »
The thing though is that Vision is more of a loop or pattern based sequencer. It's perfect for electronic and pop musicians, but my own personal stuff is more linear and progressive. Not that Vision can't do that, it can, but Logic seems the better sequencer for more advanced and detailed stuff all around.


Wow… there's so much mistaken assumption and jumping to conclusions here I don't even know where to start.
I've used Vision, StudioVision and Galaxy for years, years, and more years. It is NOT loop/pattern based - unless you want it to be. It is also NOT linear - unless you want it to be.
It will work well either way - that's one of the unique cool things about it. My thing is blues and jazz - definitely NOT pattern based.

I think the problem here is just that years of working on other DAWs have some of us expecting to be able to just jump to another and have everything be familiar. I've heard the exact same complaint from folks going FROM Vision TO Logic; that Logic was obtuse and (pun) illogical to them.
I too, use hardware mostly and IMO the functionality and flow with Vision and Galaxy is as smooth and efficient as you could ever ask for.

I also like how when you click with the drum stick in the piano roll, you can immediately move the note up and down and get it just right. You can't do that in Logic.

That's just ONE of the MANY things you "can't do in Logic" but you can in Vision. You can drag pitch, duration, velocity up and down, duplicate notes, etc too.

Back then there was really only Opcode and MOTU… they invented just about all of the basics we enjoy today. OMS alone (still working well) was vital in enabling the MIDI spec to evolve into more than just playing one hardware kbd from another.

The "too many windows" issue can be turned from an annoyance into a feature by simply adding another monitor then sizing and arranging them as you like. Then iit's a GOOD thing!

"Audio rendering to a file" is accomplished with the "Capture Seq > Seq" command. You select the tracks you want and one click dumps it all to a new sequence file with all EQs, plugins and automation.

The app predates VSTi. If your stuff depends on lots of VST instruments you should use something else.
If your stuff depends on mixing down 75 tracks with effects you should just take out a 2nd mortgage and fill up the room with TDM. (You DO get free heat that way…)

Note: after years of trying, Dave Oppenheimer is finally getting Avid to incorporate some of Vision's MIDI routines into PT - that's what…only PT ELEVEN!

Seriously, I've created entire albums in StudioVision alone using Sonicworx or Amadeus for tweaking and I'm starting another right now.
I will get around the VSTi issue using the Ugly wrapper (if I can make it work reliably) and by using my dual-boot MDD to track an occasional instrument in OSX using…wait for it… LOGIC!

Any questions, just ask.

supernova777

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Re: Have you ever tried VISION DSP or STUDIO VISION?
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2015, 03:19:13 AM »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnQ1vu-omKY[/youtube]

did u happen to catch both of these videos? (part 1 was embedded above..)

this video shows just how flexible and Programmatic the user interface is..
and can be incredibly time saving by applying the same action to multiple tracks.. these types of do-once-apply-to-all user interface possibilities in vision are mind blowing if u can learn to 'Speak the language" and use it to its full "hidden" potential.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 03:31:03 AM by chrisNova777 »