ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2

[Nameci]

I have two identical monitors connected to a MDD with a nVidia Ti 4600. As I'm having some issues with the DVI connector, one of the monitors are connected via VGA ( the other remains connected via DVI ) . And Just realised that the DVI accept 1344 x 756 but not the VGA. And both have a really different resolution options.

Final update. Yesterday, I have searched over piles of computer junks I have and I have found a DVI cable. And yes 1360x768 and correct monitor ID can be attained by using DVI instead of VGA. I have now 1360x768 and is it just perception but things do look sharper than before?

[Nameci]

  Could you post the device profile information from the view in the ATI Displays window also?  I'd like to give you a complete comparison against my card.  I can already tell you that yours has a slightly older ROM version.

@MacOS Plus,

Would you care to share your copy of the ATI Displays control panel? I cannot find it on my control panels folder, probably the reason why I can not be able to open up ATI Displays from menu bar menu.

[MacTron]

Final update. Yesterday, I have searched over piles of computer junks I have and I have found a DVI cable. And yes 1360x768 and correct monitor ID can be attained by using DVI instead of VGA. I have now 1360x768 and is it just perception but things do look sharper than before?

i have told you before :

Try the DVI connector, it is  more reliable usually and the image quality is better.

 

[Nameci]

Yes, I wanted to, but that time a DVI cable is not available. I have to go over a pile of junk to look for the DVI cable.

[MacOS Plus]

  The "ATI Displays" control panel I have is version 3.2.1, which appears to be the final version.  I got it from the installer "ATI Radeon 9000 Pro Mac Software Update November 2002" downloaded from http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#8500.  I am using that in combination with the other files from the Jan 2005 update.  There is a note on that page saying the 9200 isn't supposed to be supported by the ATI Displays control panel, but clearly this isn't fully true since the retail card I have with the existing ROM version does work with it.  There's another note that says you may get a black screen on first boot but then it will work after a reboot.  I've never experienced that with any variant of the ATI cards I own that were referenced in the note.  This may or may not have been partially related to your initial problem, but I think we've ruled that out by now.

  One additional observation I'll make when dealing with LCDs with odd resolutions - Most of these were actually intended to be televisions.  I just picked up a second-hand Sony LCD TV that has a native resolution of 1280x768 but will accept and scale to fit 1920x1080i from the component or HDMI connectors.  BUT, if you connect a computer using the VGA port on it the max resolution detected and allowed by the video card is the native 1280x768.  You must use the HDMI connector if you want the higher input resolutions available.  I just tried it hooked up to OS X via a DVI-to-HDMI cable and the video card then offers all the available resolutions including all the interlaced television modes.  The irony is that the manual for the TV expressly said NOT to connect a computer to the HDMI input, but obviously this was nonsense.  A lot of older video cards will not support high-resolution interlaced modes, but the ATI Radeon 9800 I'm testing with does.  This is a fine example of the potential differences in available modes and detection on certain LCD monitors with multiple input connector formats, and it is a clear warning to always thoroughly test all connection options before blaming drivers or the video card.

[IIO]

  The available resolutions should be determined almost entirely by the card itself in tandem with what it recognizes about the monitor

MacOS Plus is right.

not at all, with most monitors you get like two times the possible resolutions shown to mac os 9 when you use third party software - some monitors wont work with the apple control panel at all.

[MacOS Plus]

  Yes, obviously it is possible to use additional software to allow forcing settings that the card and or monitor don't report as available/supported.  Sometimes that will work and sometimes it won't.  It doesn't change the fact that the default options presented to the average user are based on what is encoded in the card and monitor ROMs or sense pins.  Overriding those predefined resolution tables wasn't really part of the discussion, but this would likely not have been relevant if the OP had never been able access a visible resolution first in order to make changes.  The monitors control panel only shows settings it's told are supposed to be available.

[Nameci]

Below are screenshots of the ATI Displays. It says "Powered by unknown ATI Graphics". Is it just normal?

@MacOS Plus, can you compare the ROM version between yours and mine? I am assuming that my cards ROM is older than yours. 

It says, gfx memory to be 64MB, whereas on the system profiler it says 128MB.

[MacOS Plus]

Your ROM: 113-A27502-124
  My ROM: 113-A27502-127

  The ROM you currently have is the last one 'officially' distributed by ATI for end-user updating.  The 127 version was provided on a number of retail cards pre-installed.  This is probably the only reason the ATI software doesn't fully recognize your card.

  If you are willing to go the 'unofficial' route, the 127 ROM can be found and flashed using alternate methods.  What is critically important is determining whether or not your card is a legit Mac version or a PC version re-flashed.  The PC ones use a 64k ROM chip while the Mac ones use a 128k ROM chip.  If you flash the larger ROM image into the smaller chip it won't work and you would need access to a PC computer to put the old ROM back in.

See the following link and read through the discussion in detail:

http://www.cubeowner.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10039&st=15

More information and ROMs here:

http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2

  There's actually an even later ROM for the 9200 available from that site but I don't think I feel the need to try it given that my card is working properly with the stock 127 ROM.  I would strongly suggest that you don't flash your card via the unofficial route if you don't have a PC available as a fallback.  If you flash on the Mac and the ROM is not compatible or truncated you won't get video any more on the Mac if it is your only card.  It is easier on a PC, and sometimes the only way possible in this circumstance, to use a second video card for your monitor while running the ROM flash.  That way you always have one working screen no matter what happens with the 9200 card.  If you're not comfortable taking the risk then don't do it.

  Oddly, even the final August 2005 ROM updater for Radeon has just the 124 version as the maximum included.  Anything later has to be flashed another way as I mentioned.

  One final note - My 9200 card still shows as "unrecognized" in ATI Displays, but acceleration is enabled and working with the 127 ROM.

[MacOS Plus]

  BTW, does anyone know what changes or feature additions were part of the 201 ROM for the Radeon 9200?  I can't find mention of this anywhere.  Also, are the changes in features only applicable to OS X?

[Nameci]

Your ROM: 113-A27502-124
  My ROM: 113-A27502-127

  The ROM you currently have is the last one 'officially' distributed by ATI for end-user updating.  The 127 version was provided on a number of retail cards pre-installed.  This is probably the only reason the ATI software doesn't fully recognize your card.

  If you are willing to go the 'unofficial' route, the 127 ROM can be found and flashed using alternate methods.  What is critically important is determining whether or not your card is a legit Mac version or a PC version re-flashed.  The PC ones use a 64k ROM chip while the Mac ones use a 128k ROM chip.  If you flash the larger ROM image into the smaller chip it won't work and you would need access to a PC computer to put the old ROM back in.

See the following link and read through the discussion in detail:

http://www.cubeowner.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10039&st=15

More information and ROMs here:

http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2

  There's actually an even later ROM for the 9200 available from that site but I don't think I feel the need to try it given that my card is working properly with the stock 127 ROM.  I would strongly suggest that you don't flash your card via the unofficial route if you don't have a PC available as a fallback.  If you flash on the Mac and the ROM is not compatible or truncated you won't get video any more on the Mac if it is your only card.  It is easier on a PC, and sometimes the only way possible in this circumstance, to use a second video card for your monitor while running the ROM flash.  That way you always have one working screen no matter what happens with the 9200 card.  If you're not comfortable taking the risk then don't do it.

  Oddly, even the final August 2005 ROM updater for Radeon has just the 124 version as the maximum included.  Anything later has to be flashed another way as I mentioned.

  One final note - My 9200 card still shows as "unrecognized" in ATI Displays, but acceleration is enabled and working with the 127 ROM.

My ROM is older than yours, so maybe that is the reason why the ATI Graphic Accelerator extension from 2005 will not work. I have an FW800 MDD, can I use that to flash the PCI 9200?

I remember buying this card from OWC, so I would guess that it is a Mac Edition?

<url>https://eshop.macsales.com/item/ati%20technologies/100436011/</url>

[MacOS Plus]

  Yes, but the necessary program for doing the unofficial flashing requires you to boot OS X to run the process.  After that you can return to OS 9.

See this link:

http://thomas.perrier.name/graphiccelerator.html

[Nameci]

  Yes, but I believe the necessary program for doing the unofficial flashing requires you to boot OS X to run the process.  After that you can return to OS 9.

I have dl'ed graphicellerator to flash it on osx, wish me luck. lol.

[Nameci]

Success!

Put in ATI Radeon 9200 PCI to one of the available slots on my FW800 MDD DP1.42 running Tiger. Downloaded the ROM from "themacelite" and Graphicellerator (as advised by @MacOS Plus - thanks man), boot on safe mode and from the app folder run "Run me first". Open up graphicellerator, open up ROM file to load. Run multiflasher, restart and boot normally.

[MacOS Plus]

  Enjoy!

[Nameci]

Thanks, I did, really!

Besides the fact that I have enjoyed using OS 9, I have enjoyed the processes to make this card work as per my expectations. I have a little OCD, I want all the stuff I put on my computers to perform on their full potential. I floor the gas pedal once in a while... lol.

[IIO]

  Yes, obviously it is possible to use additional software to allow forcing settings that the card and or monitor don't report as available/supported.  Sometimes that will work and sometimes it won't.  It doesn't change the fact that the default options presented to the average user are based on what is encoded in the card and monitor ROMs or sense pins.  Overriding those predefined resolution tables wasn't really part of the discussion, but this would likely not have been relevant if the OP had never been able access a visible resolution first in order to make changes.  The monitors control panel only shows settings it's told are supposed to be available.

thanks for a clean roundup.

maybe one day someone will make an operating system which does not always attempt to hide stuff from users at first.

but to be fair, the OS can of course not know what resolutions will be availbel fpr this monitor and this card using DVI as long as DVI isnt connected. problematic by design, but somehow unavoidable with monitors newer than the card.

[Apfel]

First of all hello to everyone,
I came to this forum with a new hope for my Radeon 9200 mac edition pci 128mb. Unfortunately what I believed to be the hope for it (the ultra rare ATI july 2005 update) wasn't. Here's what happens: The card shows perfect picture but every Radeon 9200 compatible driver refuses to load and the system freezes upon showing the desktop. Could it be a damaged card? My system is: B&W G3 with a G4 400mhz original from "Yikes!" overclocked to 450mhz with proper voltage tweak, 1GB memory, 80GB + 40GB HDs, LG DVD-RAM, 2 Voodoo2 8MB in SLI, using a Radeon 7000 64MB which is working perfectly. I tried removing the voodoo2 cards, using it on the 33mhz slots but everything failed. I don't what else I can do for it to work as it's claimed to be 100% compatible with my system. Any help is appreciated.

Sorry I am digging out this old thread, but for completeness, may I ask: do you remember, if that desktop freezing lasted? I have both a mac pci 9200 128MB and a flashed 9200 AGP 128MB and I had the desktop freeze with the flashed one as well with the mac retail one. But somewhen I noticed, if you wait long enough the card will somewhat "awake" and you can, for example see that an item you cicked 1-2minutes ago will no react. After this everything will react immediately. So I won't give up on that card too early, if you still possess it and want to use it.

Also the cards might work under 9.1, but they didn't under 9.2.2

Here is what I did (scroll down to "I succeeded"). http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,303.msg780.html#msg780

The problem is not only the ATI drivers / ROM. It is also coming from, when you installed an OS 9 version from another Mac (in my Case from iMac G3 DV original orange 9.0.4 CD that had been updated to 9.1 and then copied to the G4 and applied the update). The iMac G3 version wouldn't run on the G4 with the 9.2.2 update and the ATI 9200 (but with the ATI 128pro and other cards such as the Nvidia MX2 and 4).

[Nameci]

Success!

Put in ATI Radeon 9200 PCI to one of the available slots on my FW800 MDD DP1.42 running Tiger. Downloaded the ROM from "themacelite" and Graphicellerator (as advised by @MacOS Plus - thanks man), boot on safe mode and from the app folder run "Run me first". Open up graphicellerator, open up ROM file to load. Run multiflasher, restart and boot normally.

What gives? Same card, just noticed it recently. 128MB now its 64MB?

[filipetolhuizen]

Mine only started to work properly with the updated Mac OS 9.2.2 from here.