attack of the clones!

[supernova777]

one thing we havent really spoken much about are the mac os 9 capable 3rd party clone computers
is this a topic worth discussing?

From 1995-1998, Apple authorized other companies to manufacture and sell PowerPC-based Mac clones. EveryMac.com diligently tracked these licensed Mac clones and continues to provide complete specs below organized by manufacturer. Specs on early unlicensed Mac clones are available below, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_clone


from the box of my Tempo Serial ATA 2-port controller card
ive got the names of these 3rd party companies from the box
but from this top level index on everymac.com there seems to be ALOT MORE of them!!!!!
http://www.everymac.com/systems/mac-clones/index-mac-clones.html

if these are the names mentioned by sonnet i suppose they are the most stable of the mac clones:

-Daystar Genesis & Millenium Series
http://www.everymac.com/systems/daystar/index-daystar-mac-clones.html

-Mactell XB-Pro
http://www.everymac.com/systems/mactell/index-mactell-mac-clones.html

-Power Computing PowerBASE Desktop, PowerCenter, PowerCenter Pro, PowreCurve, PowerTower, PowerTower Pro, PowerWave
http://www.everymac.com/systems/powercc/index-power-computing-mac-clones.html

-StarMax 3000, 4000, 5000, 5500
http://www.everymac.com/systems/motorola/index-motorola-starmax-mac-clones.html

-UMAX C500, C600, C600X, J700, S900
http://www.everymac.com/systems/umax/index-umax-supermac-mac-clones.html

alot of these machines had 5-6 PCI slots!!!! taking queue from or trying to compete with the 9600 power macintosh i guess..
which leads me to ask the ultimate questions, are there g3 / g4 cpu powered clones that came with midi compatible serial ports?
i just checked for the cpu speeds and it seems they are all 300mhz or under...
were they built already with ATX form factor inside? the case from the exterior seems to be?

[supernova777]

http://www.kevinomura.com/macclones/index.html
(he seems to have more mac related posts at his main page: http://www.kevinomura.com/ such as this post on the g3 b&w http://www.kevinomura.com/macs/bwg3/index.html)

examining some images frm this page it looks like these clones did in fact feature these oldschool serial ports!!

heres a shot from a starmax ebay auction



an entire subsidiary industry.. completely anhiliated by steve jobs
do u think its possible that he purposely took serial/adb support away om the g3 B&w purposefully
to make everyone buy new keyboards/mice/audio/midi interfaces???
not to mention printers, wacoms etc
they were already in talks with emagic i bet by this time!!!

[Protools5LEGuy]

I thought mac clones were limited to system 7, but they seem to work with 8 and 9 too.

There were quad powerpc machines  like the four 225 MHz http://www.everymac.com/systems/daystar/mp_plus/genesis_mp932_plus.html

Yes, most of them seem ATX towers but a closer look should point that.

[supernova777]

I thought mac clones were limited to system 7, but they seem to work with 8 and 9 too.

There were quad powerpc machines  like the four 225 MHz http://www.everymac.com/systems/daystar/mp_plus/genesis_mp932_plus.html

Yes, most of them seem ATX towers but a closer look should point that.

Original Price:    $6500 US for that quad powerpc machine

[supernova777]

can also browse them by year here:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/index-macs-mac-clones-by-year.html

http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-1990.html#mac_clones
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-1991.html#mac_clones
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-1992.html#mac_clones
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-1993.html#mac_clones
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/mac-clones-released-in-1995.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/mac-clones-released-in-1996.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/mac-clones-released-in-1997.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/mac-clones-released-in-1998.html

seems most were ADB / SCSI

heres one that was 325mhz:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/macworks/millennium/millennium_g3_325.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/macworks/ports/millennium.html lists serial ports too
really wish everymac didnt hide the ports info on a subsidiary page ..

i bet practcally every one of these clones has proper serial/printer ports that support midi interfaces properly!

[Protools5LEGuy]

Europeans, look at this!
http://www.everymac.com/systems/maxxboxx/maxxboxx960/960_800mp.html
Apple did not support anything from Os 8.1 on them, but they seem to work up to 9.0

Yes, Steve Jobs first killed clones making system 8(clones were allowed to use up to 7.x ), soon later all the serial ports and SCSI with the 9600/8600 macs, killing ADB on the B&W

[supernova777]

they probably work fine up to 9.2.2 but like u said, not officially supported by apple because of choices made by steve jobs

[Protools5LEGuy]

I doubt ANY daw were optimized for this multiple processor machines. But if it were, should be with 95-98 software, far from the golden age of OS9DAWs.

Only a fistful of plugs in Photoshop were aware of the multiple processor. If you find ANY optimization for this machines on AUDIO, please share with us. From what I know Protools 5 wants G3 beige minimum.
What a protools MIX +++++++ rig you could made in there...But Digidesign do not support them...
I feel your ADB needs and serial needs are only useful with OPCODE midi interfaces and midi hardware from the same age... Maybe it should be easier to find USB-Midi solutions than SERIAL-Midi solutions, but if you already have that serial hardware you have to find a solution.
emagic usb midi interfaces and M-audio are affordable and with good quality
 
Any version of Cubase/Digital Performer/Logic optimized for Quad 604?

[supernova777]

I feel your ADB needs and serial needs are only useful with OPCODE midi interfaces and midi hardware from the same age... Maybe it should be easier to find USB-Midi solutions than SERIAL-Midi solutions, but if you already have that serial hardware you have to find a solution.
emagic usb midi interfaces and M-audio are affordable and with good quality
 

?
motu/opcode serial midi hardware is cheap because its only compatible with old macs
and it performs excellent. for those of us looking for great midi performance + networking + alot of it..
these serial midi devices are a win win for how much they cost.. and the biggest pain in the ass is finding the "adapters" to make them work with g3/g4's

hence why im looking into clones because they offer a) lots of pci slots for expansion (which there is alot of !) when u add up pro tools cards + audio i/o cards
and pci serial card for midi and sata pci adapter for sata u arent left with much slots left over for powercore or uad.. thats for sure
b) they come with the serial ports needed for these midi devices already..
so basically its similar to a powermac 9500 or 9600 which are hard to find for cheap
but a mac clone? maybe it can be found with its unknown name "daystar" etc

re: your coment about usb midi solutions
i have read that people have had problems with midi latency with usb midi devices
especially on osx on powerpc
maybe this was cleared up with software updates tho
the post i read just a few moments ago was talkina bout the mt4 by emagic
being nice + fast in os9 but slow + extra 10ms latency in osx

[supernova777]

another thing to note is that these old clones can be upgraded!! cpu upgrades

such as the crescendo g3 from sonnet..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonnet-Technologies-Crescendo-G3-400-1M-400MHz-PowerPC-750-Apple-CPU-Module-/390676953955?pt=CPUs&hash=item5af6293b63

these cpu upgrades seem to be very much available too.. ive seen them for sale alot more then stealth ports!
and they come ine 400mhz + 500mhz speeds i think

heres the data sheet
http://www.sonnettech.com/publicfiles/pdfs/pdf_datasheets/cpci_datasheet.pdf

acording to this sheet there is 1ghz G4 upgrade?

G3 or G4 speed at a low price
Speed improvements up to 1.0 GHz
L2 or L3 backside cache
100% hardware and software compatible
Fits in the processor slot
Fully compatible in P
ower Macintosh 95/9600 series
computers with lower PCI slots occupied

COMPATIBLE MAC MODELS
Power Macintosh 7300, 7500, 7600, 8500, 8515, 8600, 9500, 9500/180MP, 9515, 9600, 9600/200MP
Workgroup Server 7350, 8550, 9650
Daystar Genesis & Millennium Series
Mactell XB-Pro
Power Computing PowerCenter, PowerCenter Pro, PowerCurve, PowerTower, PowerTower Pro, PowerWave UMAX J700, S900

i would love to find a 9600 + a 1ghz g4 upgrade for it! imagine 6 pci slots with 1ghz g4 cpu.. !
then id have tons of slots for my UAD even after usb 2.0, + sata pci raid adapter

the PPCG4-1000-2M cpu upgrade also features 2MB L3 Cache:)


wow heres a listing of a 9500 with a 400mhz cpu upgrade pre installed
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Apple-Macintosh-9500-Workstation-w-Sonnet-Crescendo-G3-400-512MB-RAM-/171367792106?pt=US_Vintage_Computers_Mainframes&hash=item27e650fdea